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Battle takes place on Mustafar. Who wins?

Is Kun ever going to have a 1 vs 1 against somebody other than the same five characters?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Is Kun ever going to have a 1 vs 1 against somebody other than the same five characters?

Alright. So would you like Ahsoka or Abeloth?

Jeez im sorry. Could Kun have beaten the Katarn strike team then?

There is a list of people who could've done the same, and it's a lot bigger than you think.

Kun.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Kun.

Ant's view of Jacen has plummeted.

Caedus with difficulty.

Originally posted by Trocity
Ant's view of Jacen has plummeted.

It's called reading the books and actually obtaining context, anyway I agree with Ant.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Kun.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Alright. So would you like Ahsoka or Abeloth?

Ashoka would win that fight. Just ask Joker

Caedus is beaten in all categories here.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Jeez im sorry. Could Kun have beaten the Katarn strike team then?

Few things to note... Caedus was not powerful enough to break Katarn's Force defences:



When you have the ability to rag-doll someone, you do not opportunistically send a speeder in their direction to produce the same result. Katarn was about to deflect an oncoming gesture of Force power, which is why Caedus, instead simply Force pulling Katarn into his blade, uses the environmental circumstances to scrape yet another narrow win. Kun on the other hand, would probably choke all four of them out on the spot, and he might even do so in an immensely weekend form. :



I don't know If Kun could beat the team in pure sabers, but then again, Caedus was on the loosing end of a lightsaber duel that lasted around 15 seconds:



And I've already disputed the Idea that Caedus could actually beat Katarn in a 1 v1 at all here

Originally posted by AncientPower
It's called reading the books and actually obtaining context, anyway I agree with Ant.

Originally posted by AncientPower
It's called reading the books and actually obtaining context, anyway I agree with Ant.

It was just an observation, I wasn't attacking your e-vibrator.

Your trolling is beneath you, my how far you've fallen in these last few years.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Few things to note... Caedus was not powerful enough to break Katarn's Force defencesEh, he ragdolled Jaina without even gesturing.

Kun

Caedus

Jadus

I'm honestly not sure about this one.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'm honestly not sure about this one.

Yea sorry I meant Caedus, stupid auto correct

Originally posted by Syndicate
Kun.

Caedus was the most pathetic, whiny thing to happen to the Sith since the mess Lucas let Hayden pull off what he did on screen. He was loathsome in every way and his mastery of dark side powers was less than masterful. Luke literally pins him to his chair and could have killed him at any time. He's bested time and time again when it comes to direct fights, and certainly in the case of Jaina by someone who is not on Kun's level.

Caedus was garbage in every way in terms of his Sith prowess, overly arrogant, and just garbage all around. He only took Mara Jade through bad writing--I still find that scene utterly unbelievable in terms of how it played out on top of it doing zero to advance the story--and his Force ability is sketchy. As evidenced by his complete inability to see through what Luke was doing with his Force Illusion, as well as Luke's other reminders to him that he was fighting a losing battle and that he was outmatched in every way during the space combat section of that novel he was simply lacking from start to finish. He has no showings that put him remotely at a level capable of taking on Exar Kun.

Good one.

... He's not wrong.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Caedus was the most pathetic, whiny thing to happen to the Sith since the mess Lucas let Hayden pull off what he did on screen. He was loathsome in every way and his mastery of dark side powers was less than masterful. Luke literally pins him to his chair and could have killed him at any time. He's bested time and time again when it comes to direct fights, and certainly in the case of Jaina by someone who is not on Kun's level.

Caedus was garbage in every way in terms of his Sith prowess, overly arrogant, and just garbage all around. He only took Mara Jade through bad writing--I still find that scene utterly unbelievable in terms of how it played out on top of it doing zero to advance the story--and his Force ability is sketchy. As evidenced by his complete inability to see through what Luke was doing with his Force Illusion, as well as Luke's other reminders to him that he was fighting a losing battle and that he was outmatched in every way during the space combat section of that novel he was simply lacking from start to finish. He has no showings that put him remotely at a level capable of taking on Exar Kun.
Agreed tbh. I've never been that impressed by Caedus.

Ziggy, Don't make me shove you into a box.

Don't get me wrong, Caedus does have some cards up his sleeve - like the 'fight sight' which is essentially precognition+, not to mention his illusions. Outside of that though, he has nothing special. There isn't much reason why Kun wouldn't finish him in a single Force attack.

Into the box you go.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'm honestly not sure about this one.

Bump

Caedus

Kun ****s Gaydus ten times over.

New Fanfiction:
Exar attacks Caedus. Caedus dodges the attack, and brztally murders Kun.
The End.

From since the thread was posted till now, the only thing thats happened is Jacen's had more feats debunked.

Caedus is stll >all Sith, bar Sids, Vitate, Plagueis and maybe Krayt.

It's a shame he couldn't even beat aurra sing

Lmfao
That fight has so much circumstances.

LMFAO the most powerful and dangerous of all sith lords can will give Caedus a circumstance he won't forget.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11126/111265120/5011596-4950456157-exarkunmostpowerfulofall.jpg~original

Anyway, Wolf admitted he'd like to debate me on Caedus, and I think this is quite the appropriate Topic. Enough with you foul creature of the mist.

Do you want to say Kun>Sidious?

Wollf will beat you up

You tell him Ziggy

Even if Kun would be >>Caedus, Ziggy would still lose against Wollf, lmao.

Kun win after a decent fight.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Even if Kun would be >>Caedus, Ziggy would still lose against Wollf, lmao.
You underestimate the Lord. Wollf is a peasant.

Lmfao. The guy who says Krayt is faster than Sidious, and that Yoda is bad at TK isn't winning against Wollf, lol.

Pledge yourself to Ziggy or be destroyed.

Exar Kun smokes him

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Exar Kun smokes him
ilysm

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Pledge yourself to Ziggy or be destroyed.
Nah. I'll still pray to Nova, Wollf, Ant and ILS.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
LMFAO the most powerful and dangerous of all sith lords can will give Caedus a circumstance he won't forget.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11126/111265120/5011596-4950456157-exarkunmostpowerfulofall.jpg~original

"Dangerous" has many different interpretations and doesn't always refer to fights. And a few other Sith have had the "most powerful" label attached to them. We should just stick to feats.

Caedus, with difficulty.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Caedus, with difficulty.
That's a smart guy ^^

@Az Nah, we can the "most powerful"-quotes as fact value, tho Wollf countered the quote, that Ragnos>Pall|Nadd. Kun is stated to be the most powerful up to his time, which is reasonable; as well as Vitates, Plagueis and Palpatines quote(s).

I simply don't hold Kun as high as most haha.

Yeah he's right. 'Dangerous' can be interpreted Many different ways lel. And the 'most powerful' quote for Sidious is brought up all the time so why is Kun's disregarded?

Because arguing about 'most powerful' quotes is pointless with people like Ziggy.

Originally posted by Azronger
Because arguing about 'most powerful' quotes is pointless with people like Ziggy.

Originally posted by Azronger
Because arguing about 'most powerful' quotes is pointless with people like Ziggy.
People like Ziggy? Your intellectual superiors?

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
People like Ziggy?

People who don't subscribe to the PT/OT wank.



Intellect is measured by a lot more things than the ability to debate fictional characters. But if it came down to it, then yes, he'd probably beat me in a debate.

Also, why are you kissing his ass all of a sudden?

Caedus.

Also, the "Kun is the most powerful Sith Lord" quote is referring to his time, and prior. This is confirmed in TCSWE where it's stated Kun was once the most powerful Sith, then later gives the same title to Sheev.

Regardless of quote wars, Kun still wins. Why? Since every piece of misinformation for Caedus has been addressed, we have sith lord not worthy of a mantle to top the elites. His turbolaser deflection feat is barely marked above Satele Shan blocking Malgus with her bare hands, there is no legitimate source that claiming he's > Vader and there's no solid proof he can dismantle Katarn in under a minute. The same goes for him 'matching Luke'. Every one who has had look at the context surrounding Jacen has finished by saying- yeah he's not as great as I thought. Kun on the other hand has been meet with an honest effort to analyse, contextualise and examine his feats. Even naysayers have had to begrudgingly accept that DE Luke tier's will get dominated. And every possible comparison in combat you can make between these two works in Kun's favour.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust

LMFAO

Ziggy vs Wollf in Kun vs Caedus.....I'm taking bets.....

Ziggy wins. Betting my future children and wives.

Wollf wins.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Betting my future children and wives.

I'm in. 5 USD should worth the same.

^ Your mother is worth 5 bucks?

Well Ziggy, I don't know enough about Caedus to comment, but Exar certainly isn't dominating DE Luke-tier people. The fight in JA was circumstancial; Luke only lost because he was confronted by a technique he had no experience with. As for more conventional attacks, he resisted easily, only being unable to fight back because of the pain.

Exar, yeah.

Lol, the fact that Luke was unable to adapt to Kun's technique shows how shit he is. He's stated to have almost instant adaptability in combat (can't remember the quote)

Obvious bait is obvious.

Originally posted by Azronger
Obvious bait is obvious.

Originally posted by Azronger
Well Ziggy, I don't know enough about Caedus to comment

Putting you in the same category as every other Caedus supporter in this thread.



So what qualifies him as someone who can dominate the likes of Luke? If the text of a book describing a loquacious manner where Luke needs every defensive technique Yoda taught - implying he knew more than the Jedi-standard book of spells - and still gets taken out by Kun, doesn't imply obvious superiority, then what does? Do you have any proof that goes against the text? Other than your assertive opinion? Because anyone is capable of asserting themselves. For example, Exar should capable of dominating the Son and Ableoth at the same time. Don't ask me for a structured argument on the matter, I won't be providing one.



Yes the fight was circumstantial, the circumstance was that Kun could only use a fraction of his true power and parcel segment of his abilties. If I was to argue insomuch that Revan defeated Malak, you wouldn't attempt to rebut that by explaining how the Star Forge makes the fight unfair, would you? Revan had the odds stacked against him, as did Kun. Both emerged for a short lived victory.



Well in that case, Exar should just dominate everyone and anyone who doesn't know the specific counter-sign, despite your theory not being supported by text. I suppose you believe Kun simply overrides natural talent and raw power... even when you know :

1) Luke has his own set of defensive showings
2) That even his father couldn't replicate
3) And that sometimes, oftentimes, defence against the dark arts is as simple as drawing upon the light side of the Force TM .

An undertaking that shouldn't be too difficult or complex for someone who could use the light side of the Force to sever Palpatine's control over a space distorting storm that was about to engulf an entire fleet. Now Kun might have conjured a technique that Luke, by merit of knowledge, couldn't counter. But that by itself, and just by itself, means Kun can dominate people of DE Luke's caliber. Caedus doesn't remotely compare to Kun in knowledge of the Sith arts, so he should just be taken out as easily.

One of the images isn't working. Here's a better link:
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11128/111282615/5393741-luke+super+duper+force+barrier.png

Wollf, here's more:

Sedriss followed Skywalker and another Jedi Knight, Kam Solusar, to the devastated world of Ossus, once a Jedi stronghold. There, Skywalker hoped to retrieve ancient Jedi artifacts, but before he
could uncover much, Sedriss confronted him. Sedriss
found himself overwhelmed by Skywalker's control of the Force.

-Dark Side Sourcebook

Yeah, thanks. That scan of Luke just demolishing Sedriss is enough, really, but it is an added bonus.

Nah, the scan was just a Force push. This quote solidifies Luke's superiority as a Force user.

That Ood Bnar thing was referring to his tree powers.

Ood in the comics never made an actual barrier around anything, he just turned himself into a tree that caused a giant earthquake that no one could cut through.

Originally posted by Azronger
Nah, the scan was just a Force push. This quote solidifies Luke's superiority as a Force user.

A Force Push that disarmed Sedriss and left him defensless, on the floor and gasping.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
That Ood Bnar thing was referring to his tree powers.

Ood in the comics never made an actual barrier around anything, he just turned himself into a tree that caused a giant earthquake that no one could cut through.

Tree powers, LMAO. Ood just created a barrier as per Fact File. I take it's canonical statement over your fan-theories.

Originally posted by MythLord
A Force Push that disarmed Sedriss and left him defensless, on the floor and gasping.



Tree powers, LMAO. Ood just created a barrier as per Fact File. I take it's canonical statement over your fan-theories. Then the fact file retconned the comic, in which we see the entire fight take place, Ood Bnar turned into a tree and blocked the lightsabers so Kun couldn't get them.

Kun almost died and then left.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Putting you in the same category as every other Caedus supporter in this thread.

Not supporting Caedus, just here to defend Luke.



That would depend on your definition of 'dominate'. Kun won't be, for example, ragdolling Luke, nor will he be able to harm him with his lightsaber or amulet blasts (see Wollf's post).

The technique Kun used on Luke was used to rip Luke's spirit from his body. Luke did not know how to defend against it. It's that simple, really. If you consider that domination, then so be it.



Not relevant. Exar's raw power wouldn't matter in a confrontation with DE Luke. He loses a conventional battle regardless of his state of existence, but wins a war of esoteric Force powers, again, regardless of his state of existence.



Well, yes. If Kun used the same technique on anybody who doesn't know anything about Essence Transfer and related abilities, he could defeat them. He won't overcome Luke via conventional methods, though.



Sever Force has nothing to do with spirit-related abilities. And if you're just saying this to indirectly say Kun>Palpatine, then I'm afraid you're out of luck; he also knows the exact same technique Kun does, so he'd know how to defend against it.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Then the fact file retconned the comic, in which we see the entire fight take place, Ood Bnar turned into a tree and blocked the lightsabers so Kun couldn't get them.

Kun almost died and then left.

If Bnar was an immobile tree, then Kun could've simply walked past him... but he couldn't because the surge of Ood Bnar's barrier would've damaged him. The same barrier Sedriss managed to counter-balance, break and then take Ood's life alongside his own.

Doesn't TNEGTC say that Sedriss and Bnar destroyed each other?

Sedriss > Kun? mmm

Originally posted by MythLord
If Bnar was an immobile tree, then Kun could've simply walked past him... but he couldn't because the surge of Ood Bnar's barrier would've damaged him. The same barrier Sedriss managed to counter-balance, break and then take Ood's life alongside his own. Understand what you're saying now.

Conceded.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Then the fact file retconned the comic, in which we see the entire fight take place, Ood Bnar turned into a tree and blocked the lightsabers so Kun couldn't get them.

Kun almost died and then left.

Just because the barrier wasn't visible in the comic doesn't mean it wasn't there. We never see Jedi's Force shields that they use to defend against TK, but they're still there regardless.

Same thing here.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sedriss > Kun? mmm



Originally posted by Jmanghan
Understand what you're saying now.

Conceded.

I like it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Doesn't TNEGTC say that Sedriss and Bnar destroyed each other?

Sedriss > Kun? mmm

In offensive power output, yes.

Kun takes another L.

Jesus Luke shielding himself from that blast is a pretty insane feat NGl. Also Ziggy is being humiliated lol

Originally posted by carthage
Also Ziggy is being humiliated lol

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I like it.

It is especially good when you consider that Sedriss was a mere adept of Palpatine, whereas Vader, Dooku and Maul were worthy of the apprentice status, thus implying they are greater than him.

Kys

Probably what you wanna do, after realizing how sh!t the ancient Sith actually are

Yeah cool

Originally posted by MythLord
Probably what you wanna do, after realizing how sh!t the ancient Sith actually are
Hey! I thought we wank Sorzus and Ajunta :/

They're still below Kun, so our wanking is limited.

I know Kun is >them, but is he >Pall+Sword?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I know Kun is >them, but is he >Pall+Sword? I think the sword was his standard battle equipment, so yeah.

What is Ajunta's sword gonna do to help Pall tho?

Traya said that the Sword gived him a boost.
I am just making fun, it is clear that Caedus>>>>Sedriss>Kun>Pall

Originally posted by MythLord
It is especially good when you consider that Sedriss was a mere adept of Palpatine, whereas Vader, Dooku and Maul were worthy of the apprentice status, thus implying they are greater than him.

Eh, I doubt that. Palpatine never amped them to a ridiculous extent.

Originally posted by Azronger
Eh, I doubt that. Palpatine never amped them to a ridiculous extent.

I mean, he was also amping Mara Jade, but she was always inferior to the apprentices. Palpatine amps his adepts because he knows they need it, but the title of apprentice is given to far more skilled, powerful and useful enforcers than mere adepts.

It should make Sedriss greater than, say, Jerec or possibly Hand!Mara(though, she is noted as the Empire's deadliest agent, besides Vader, so... meh) and perhaps comparable to any of the three apprentices, but he should still logically be inferior.

Jerec would beat the shit out of Sedriss, lol.

Not when Sedriss is sporting feats that mark him on Kun's level and sources noting him as Sheev's greatest servant during the time, besides Vader.

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/55486610.jpg

Look at previous pages. Sedriss succeeds where Exar fails.

Originally posted by MythLord
Look at previous pages. Sedriss succeeds where Exar fails.

In doing what. Twirling his fingers like a hand puppet or an extra in a "Bring it On" sequel? Being Palpatine's most successful servant (lol)? I'm going to assume you're not serious so that's funny Mythlord, you are one hell of a joker!

Oh right, your reading comprehension is sh!t. Lemme put it this way: Ood Bnar overpowers Exar, stalemates Sedriss.

Pick which is better.

But Tiin beat Mace in sparring and Mace beat Yoda so Saesee Tiin > Yoda?

Originally posted by MythLord
Oh right, your reading comprehension is sh!t. Lemme put it this way: Ood Bnar overpowers Exar, stalemates Sedriss.

Pick which is better.

Holy crap, is this guy serious? Alright myth I'm going to assume you're learning under Quan and for the moment you're mentally incapacitated. Otherwise your arguments make you a stand up comedian. This is just too amusing


Yea I must have missed the comparison when Bnar roots himself in the earth for 4,000 years and as a result, gently knocks Exar back. Then Bnar awakens 4,000 years later, and makes Sedriss disappear. But I guess you and I read different comics, lol.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
But Tiin beat Mace in sparring and Mace beat Yoda so Saesee Tiin > Yoda?

None of that ever happened, lmao. Yoda beat Mace, and Mace and Saesee had a 5 second spar. And that is a spar, this is an all-out clash of raw power.

The Exar Kun movement is growing more sh!t by the day, lmao.

Originally posted by MythLord
None of that ever happened, lmao. Yoda beat Mace, and Mace and Saesee had a 5 second spar. And that is a spar, this is an all-out clash of raw power.

The Exar Kun movement is growing more sh!t by the day, lmao.

It shouldn't be hard when 3-4 intellectually inept teenagers suddenly come in to wank the PT/OT.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Yea I must have missed the comparison when Bnar roots himself in the earth for 4,000 years and as a result, gently knocks Exar back. Then Bnar awakens 4,000 years later, and makes Sedriss disappear. But I guess you and I read different comics, lol.

WUT? Ood didn't root himself in the Earth for 4000 years when he fought Exar. He rooted himself immediately, lmao. And he gently knocks Exar back, but Kun couldn't break his barrier nor counter his attacks, Sedriss could, which ended in a stalemate that destroyed both of them.

Logic still exists.

Originally posted by MythLord
WUT? Ood didn't root himself in the Earth for 4000 years when he fought Exar. He rooted himself immediately, lmao. And he gently knocks Exar back, but Kun couldn't break his barrier nor counter his attacks, Sedriss could, which ended in a stalemate that destroyed both of them.

Logic still exists.

So we're comparing Ood rooting himself into the earth and using that power to gently push Exar back, versus Ood already being in the earth, waking up 4,000 years later, and not being able to root himself in the earth again? Rofl. And then destroys himself and Sedriss? You're right Myth, logic still exists

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
But Tiin beat Mace in sparring and Mace beat Yoda so Saesee Tiin > Yoda?

Neither of those happened.

Gently pushing him back? I don't think it is a gentle push back when Kun has trouble getting up afterwards, lmao.

Also, Kun later couldn't break nor counter Ood's barrier as per Fact File. Ood rooting himself for 4000 years means he had four millennia to draw from the power within the earth below him, thus possibly making him more powerful against Sedriss than he was against Kun.

And what happened? Kun gets knocked back, can barely stand, cannot break Ood's Barrier. Sedriss counter's Bnar's powers, and then incinerates him while Ood does the same to Sedriss.

One gets overpowered, another stalemates him until death. Pick which is better.

You don't think maybe Ood was weakened by y'know, turning into a tree, getting wrecked by a supernova and spending 4000 years in a coma?

Regardless, Sedriss used the energy of the charged atomsphere and he did so as a suicidal last act.

Ood's fight with Exar doesn't give us anything to scale off, lol. They clashed sabers like once before Ood got blindsided.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Ood's fight with Exar doesn't give us anything to scale off, lol. They clashed sabers like once before Ood got blindsided.

I'm referring to Ood then turning into a tree, afterwards, and placing a barrier that Kun couldn't break.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You don't think maybe Ood was weakened by y'know, turning into a tree, getting wrecked by a supernova and spending 4000 years in a coma?

Regardless, Sedriss used the energy of the charged atomsphere and he did so as a suicidal last act.

Millennia to heal is probably enough, tbh. Not to mention he spent those millennia connected to a Force nexus planet.

And so what if he used the atmosphere? He merely drew power from it, as Ood did the ground, to then counter balance him. Remove the two respective nexuses and the result is the same -- Sedriss annihilates that which stops Kun dead in his tracks.

And it wasn't suicide; Bnar simply managed to fight back.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Ood's fight with Exar doesn't give us anything to scale off, lol. They clashed sabers like once before Ood got blindsided.

I've seen reaching before but trying to compare Ood's fight with Kun and Sedriss as some evidence that Sedrsiss>Kun is priceless.

I don't legitimately believe Sedriss is > Kun, but this makes them close all things considered

Originally posted by MythLord
Millennia to heal is probably enough, tbh. Not to mention he spent those millennia connected to a Force nexus planet.

And so what if he used the atmosphere? He merely drew power from it, as Ood did the ground, to then counter balance him. Remove the two respective nexuses and the result is the same -- Sedriss annihilates that which stops Kun dead in his tracks.

And it wasn't suicide; Bnar simply managed to fight back.

He wasn't healing, he was in a coma/asleep. If he were healed he'd just turn back into a humanoid form and carry on as a Jedi.

No, he "called down energy from the planets charged atmosphere" into a blast on lightning. It wasn't a nexus, he used the ionised atmosphere to fuel a massively powerful attack. The part where his power comes into play was merely harnessing and directing that energy. Which annihilates himself as well as Bnar when the two attacks meet.

The text says he knows it's his final battle, so he "hurls his mind deep into the dark side". He was clearly going for massive final attack.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He wasn't healing, he was in a coma/asleep. If he were healed he'd just turn back into a humanoid form and carry on as a Jedi.

He was still drawing on the energies from the planet, and for millennia, while asleep. Hence why it says he uses powers that were "Using powers that lay dormant in him for thousands of years" as he "draws power on the living energy of the planet through his roots".

He also seems to be in a permanent state of a tree, otherwise he would've turned into a Jedi and fought Sedriss 1v1, head on, without the need to sacrifice himself. This is further backed up by TCSWE, where it notes that Ood Bnar "evolved" into said tree, meaning it's a new state of being.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, he "called down energy from the planets charged atmosphere" into a blast on lightning. It wasn't a nexus, he used the ionised atmosphere to fuel a massively powerful attack. The part where his power comes into play was merely harnessing and directing that energy. Which annihilates himself as well as Bnar when the two attacks meet.

Did it ever occur to you Sedriss charged the atmosphere himself? Even so, using and directing a blast powerful enough to destroy something Exar couldn't would still make him comparable to Kun. I mean, Kun is more knowledgable than Sedriss, so I assume he knew the same technique of calling down lightning, so why couldn't be do it?

This isn't the point, either. The point is, Luke's Force Shield is considerably greater than Ood's which withstood a supernnova and is something Kun couldn't break through(i.e. DE Luke is Exar Kun).

Originally posted by Nephthys
The text says he knows it's his final battle, so he "hurls his mind deep into the dark side". He was clearly going for massive final attack.

It was his final battle because he was entangled within Ood's roots, and couldn't break free. Even if he overpowers Bnar, he'd still get killed by his own powerful blast.

Kun had the luxury of being capable of attacking from a distance, yet didn't because he couldn't.

Originally posted by MythLord
I don't legitimately believe Sedriss is > Kun, but this makes them close all things considered

No it doesn't. Your argument doesn't make any sense.

Maybe to someone who cannot read.

So according to you, everybody

If you consider yourself, and Jman everybody... Then yeah.

Originally posted by MythLord
If you consider yourself, and Jman everybody... Then yeah.
And Ching.

Originally posted by MythLord
He was still drawing on the energies from the planet, and for millennia, while asleep. Hence why it says he uses powers that were "Using powers that lay dormant in him for thousands of years" as he "draws power on the living energy of the planet through his roots".

He also seems to be in a permanent state of a tree, otherwise he would've turned into a Jedi and fought Sedriss 1v1, head on, without the need to sacrifice himself. This is further backed up by TCSWE, where it notes that Ood Bnar "evolved" into said tree, meaning it's a new state of being.

No, he wasn't. The fact that he does so when he was conscious doesn't mean that he did so when he wasn't. You even posted the quote saying his power was dormant for thousands of years. It's also highly unlikely he'd wake up and immediately be 100%, especially without having truly fought in that form before.

Or he couldn't because he was enfeebled and damaged.

Originally posted by MythLord
Did it ever occur to you Sedriss charged the atmosphere himself? Even so, using and directing a blast powerful enough to destroy something Exar couldn't would still make him comparable to Kun. I mean, Kun is more knowledgable than Sedriss, so I assume he knew the same technique of calling down lightning, so why couldn't be do it?

This isn't the point, either. The point is, Luke's Force Shield is considerably greater than Ood's which withstood a supernnova and is something Kun couldn't break through(i.e. DE Luke is Exar Kun).

He didn't. If you think he did, prove it. The atmosphere was charged due to the radiation from the supernova. And no, that isn't true. Merely directing energy isn't that impressive. It's not even remotely close to Kun's level, where he uses his own actual power. If Sedriss needed to use the power of the atmosphere, his own was clearly inadequate.

It isn't. Luke wasn't the focal point of the attack. He was clear of everything but the very edges. It's a meaningless feat that proves nothing and gives him no great credit.

Originally posted by MythLord
It was his final battle because he was entangled within Ood's roots, and couldn't break free. Even if he overpowers Bnar, he'd still get killed by his own powerful blast.

Kun had the luxury of being capable of attacking from a distance, yet didn't because he couldn't.

So he couldn't overpower Bnar then? Interesting argument you have there. The text says he realises it's his final battle and then as a response he conjures his own attack. Not that he'd kill himself and therefore knew it.

Kun had to leave because of the supernova. That he couldn't waste time breaking through Bnar's barrier proves nothing. Kun is confirmed to be far more powerful than any Jedi or the era, full stop.

Why are you bothering with Beefy, Myth?

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, he wasn't. The fact that he does so when he was conscious doesn't mean that he did so when he wasn't. You even posted the quote saying his power was dormant for thousands of years. It's also highly unlikely he'd wake up and immediately be 100%, especially without having truly fought in that form before.

The fact that his power was dormant means nothing. Karness Muur was dormant for seven millennia, an undoubtably longer time, and still managed against Krayt just fine, despite several disadvantages.

There really is nothing to suggest he's not as powerful as he was back in the day, just because he was in stasis for that time, rooting himself into Ossuss' very core, and because this is the first time he fought in said form.

The form is meant to be his "evolved" form, so he's obviously going to be more powerful with it, and not hindered by it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Or he couldn't because he was enfeebled and damaged.

Not at all. He "evolved", i.e. he surpassed his old limitations. He's more powerful in this state than in his humanoid one.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He didn't. If you think he did, prove it. The atmosphere was charged due to the radiation from the supernova. And no, that isn't true. Merely directing energy isn't that impressive. It's not even remotely close to Kun's level, where he uses his own actual power. If Sedriss needed to use the power of the atmosphere, his own was clearly inadequate.

The radiation would've subsided over the course of millennia, so Sedriss would've have much to draw from, whereas Ood was drawing from the very core of the planet, whereas Sedriss was drawing and manipulating the charged energy of the atmosphere.

And Sedriss just wasn't directing the power, either. He's clearly adding his own. Bnar already tanked a supernnova, and this is just a subdued bit of radiation from it that Sedriss is drawing from. Logically, it'd be a footnote to Bnar, unless of course Sedriss is ramping the power up.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It isn't. Luke wasn't the focal point of the attack. He was clear of everything but the very edges. It's a meaningless feat that proves nothing and gives him no great credit.

Luke was a meter away from the attack itself, and Jem was literally being held onto by Sedriss during the struggle, and only let go immediately after the explosion.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So he couldn't overpower Bnar then? Interesting argument you have there. The text says he realises it's his final battle and then as a response he conjures his own attack. Not that he'd kill himself and therefore knew it.

And at the end of the day, what does this prove? Sedriss, as can be seen in the comic, targets Ood himself. Precog let him see if he'd likely die, so he intended to kill Bnar first.

That really means little in the way of discreditting the fact that he annihilated Bnar when Kun couldn't.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Kun had to leave because of the supernova. That he couldn't waste time breaking through Bnar's barrier proves nothing. Kun is confirmed to be far more powerful than any Jedi or the era, full stop.

But if he is "far more powerful", he'd have an easy time breaking through his barrier. And even if he's above Sedriss by a vast amount, he would've murked Ood instantaneously since Sedriss and Ood annihilated each other in the span of seconds.

Kun clearly had several seconds to spare. In fact, he had more, seeing as how he had to sit back and witness his Massassi fight Sylvar. If he was in a hurry, he'd one-shot her as he did in Sith War 3.

To further drive this point home, the supernnova was errected hours after the struggle between Bnar and Kun on Ossuss. So clearly Exar had more than enough time to go back to Ood, overwhelm him, and then move on with his life. But he didn't, because he couldn't. Sedriss could. He sacrificed himself at the end of it, but at least he achieved something Kun couldn't.

I have come here to give Myth my concession. Good game sir. I will now be waving the banner of Sedriss for saber and Force power. Well not really, but I had never seen that comparison up until now and it does prove that Kun can't just walk through everyone as I once thought, and that he is more on the level with Vader and Co.

However there is a mistake with Jacen's cannon deflection argument that must be adressed. The fire he deflected didn't chew up starfighters, those were different guns entirely. The same goes for Jaina and Lowbacca being disarmed.

Wait when did Bnar tank a supernova?

He was on Ossus when it got nova'd. I don't think it got really blasted though since other people survived and I think some places?

Another thing to note, is that if Bnar's strength in that form is primarily drawn from the planets life energy, than he would logically be a lot weaker in
Dark Empire than in Tales of the Jedi. Given that during Kun's time the planet's surface was covered in water and an abundance of flora and fauna - life energy - and in 10ABY it was basically desolate until the Galatic alliance was formed 30 years later. So Kun's certainly not out of the game, and just because he couldn't get past the defences, and really, of a guy who had survived planetary devastation, I won't hold it as a black mark against him.

Nice find Myth, seems pretty conclusive. Though I'd also add that Luke is noted to be weakened in these contexts after a "fierce struggle" against "nearly impossible odds":

http://i.imgur.com/aK8cJw6.jpg https://i.imgur.com/LC0fgRx.jpg https://i.imgur.com/AM3VIbv.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/C4UiVWU.jpg

There is also the fact that it wasn't just Sedriss' power but Bnar's power as well that caused the explosion (which is visually a lot more potent) the latter being enough to knock Kun on his ass and leave him struggling to get up:

http://i.imgur.com/hhXMbn0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WHeJlOw.jpg

So an explosion of this magnitude could have well KO'ed him or something. Whereas Luke is not only no worse for wear, but leaves a Force adept he protected unscathed as well:

http://i.imgur.com/aXwN2ZA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/D6YjxtO.jpg

i.e. he absorbed the blast entirely. So even if we were to assume that Bnar's powers and the power of the planet had declined over the years, Luke should still be at least as powerful if not more powerful than Kun by this comparison. The fact that he one-shotted Sedriss in a weakened state, who succeeded where Kun failed, is the icing on the cake.

EDIT: From the other page: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15927764#post15927764
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Another thing to note, is that if Bnar's strength in that form is primarily drawn from the planets life energy, than he would logically be a lot weaker in
Dark Empire than in Tales of the Jedi. Given that during Kun's time the planet's surface was covered in water and an abundance of flora and fauna - life energy - and in 10ABY it was basically desolate until the Galatic alliance was formed 30 years later. So Kun's certainly not out of the game, and just because he couldn't get past the defences, and really, of a guy who had survived planetary devastation, I won't hold it as a black mark against him. He had enough time to whine about it, which is more time that it took Sedriss to obliterate Bnar.

*Than it took them to obliterate each other.

Given Sedriss, reluctance to die at the hands of sidious, I would says he's not willing to give his life away here. Also, just another gripe, Luke was not in the center of the beam that destroyed them. So whatever energy he's tanking is merely residual.

This comparison is starting to become more flawed by the minute...

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
*Than it took them to obliterate each other.

Given Sedriss, reluctance to die at the hands of sidious, I would says he's not willing to give his life away here. Also, just another gripe, Luke was not in the center of the beam that destroyed them. So whatever energy he's tanking is merely residual. I'm not sure what your point is, fact is Sedriss summoned is powers in an instant. So if Kun is more powerful he should be able to do the same. Regardless the source material is explicit, it says Kun couldn't not break Bnar's defences, not that he didn't have the time.

And see the other page, Kun was no further from Bnar when knocked on his ass.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm not sure what your point is, fact is Sedriss summoned is powers in an instant. So if Kun is more powerful he should be able to do the same.

I'm talking about the source of the destruction, and who had the higher stake in it. The panel you shared does more than imply that it was Bnar, that wanted to an hero, and not Sedriss.



As I said before, whatever power Bnar could summon in Kun's time was obviously potent enough to tank the desolation of a planets surface. So I'm not too bothered that Kun couldn't get past that.




Being knocked on his ass means little to nothing unless he's rooting himself to the ground. Not a valid comparison to measure one's force power.

I mean this a rather heavy implication insomuch that bnar was planning to depart the living realm and become one with the force

http://i64.tinypic.com/2wptd1s.png

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
I have come here to give Myth my concession. Good game sir. I will now be waving the banner of Sedriss for saber and Force power. Well not really, but I had never seen that comparison up until now and it does prove that Kun can't just walk through everyone as I once thought, and that he is more on the level with Vader and Co.

Good. I like this improvement.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
However there is a mistake with Jacen's cannon deflection argument that must be adressed. The fire he deflected didn't chew up starfighters, those were different guns entirely. The same goes for Jaina and Lowbacca being disarmed.

Actually, the "turboblasters" from the ship Jaina, Zekk and Jacen engaged started firing at a Star Destroyer of some sorts and then the starfighters got damaged in the middle of the struggle. Given that the starfighters were on the side of said Star Destroyer, IIRC, I find it doubtful they aimed at their own vessels.

As for Lowbacca and Jaina, fair enough I guess. Still, this is hardly Jacen's only claim to fame, as it were.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
I'm talking about the source of the destruction, and who had the higher stake in it. The panel you shared does more than imply that it was Bnar, that wanted to an hero, and not Sedriss.I assume the point you are trying to make is that Bnar killed himself? Well aside from the fact that wouldn't accomplish anything, it doesn't appear to be his intentions, rather it is Sedriss who is an heroing:

Sensing that this is his final battle, Sedriss hurls his mind deep into the dark side, calling down energy from the planet's charged atmosphere.

"Get back Skywalker. This evil one is trying to kill me! But I am a greater master of the Force than he."

Sedriss sensed his impending death, but appeared determined to go out with a bang. Bnar realised Sedriss' intentions to destroy him and attempted to stop it, but failed, though succeeding to taking Sedriss out with him. That is my reading.

EDIT: Though even if we assume Bnar went suicidal, that only suggests that he knew he couldn't stop Sedriss destroying him, else there would be no need.
Fair, but Sedriss still succeeded where Kun failed.That wasn't the point I was making, I suggest you read over my post in full.

The charged atmosphere that Sedriss used to fuel his attack wasn't present when Kun fought Ood. Sedriss didn't use his own powers for the attack, so a comparison between his power and Kun can't be made.

And like Ziggy said, Ood was using the power of Ossus itself to repel Kun. There wouldn't be nearly as much in Sedriss' time after the planet had been blasted to ruins.

But the radiation itself was rather pathetic in comparison to Ood, who withstood supernovas. So really, Sedriss would've ramped said power up with his own, as he annihilated Ood.

The planet had less life, but it should be noted Ood sunk deeper into Ossuss over the years. His roots made contact with the core of the nexus world by the time of Dark Empire, thus he can draw more from it, so it should balance out.