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Fight takes place in Atris' Academy on Telos. The Sith are arriving one by one to challenge her. Full healing after each round. Morals off, bloodlust on.

Warmup: Sith Trooper

1. Darth Maladi

2. Darth Stryfe

3. Darth Talon

4. Darth Nihl

5. Darth Wyyrlok

Boss: Darth Krayt

Down at 5.

You think she takes Talon/Nihl? Interesting.

Probably down at 1.

Huh. Reasoning?

Originally posted by SunRazer
You think she takes Talon/Nihl? Cancer.

Fixed.

She fared pretty damn well against Shado Vao, whom I have more respect for than Atris.

Nah, her drain, superiority to Kavar as a duelist, and her ancient Sith knowledge, carries her right up to 5.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Fixed.

If Zoltan disagrees, your opinion is cancer. Top notch superiority complex you have there.

Nah, she'd beat Nihl but falls to Talon.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
She fared pretty damn well against Shado Vao, whom I have more respect for than Atris.

I looked at it on her respect thread. I'm sure there were off-panel portions, but on-panel, the only thing we see is her using Lightning and Shado blocking it - several times. Rakghouls then intervene and break them up. That's not beyond Atris, lol.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I looked at it on her respect thread. I'm sure there were off-panel portions, but on-panel, the only thing we see is her using Lightning and Shado blocking it - several times. Rakghouls then intervene and break them up. That's not beyond Atris, lol.

Right.

Casually ignoring the other time, where she fought both Shado Vao and Wolf Sazen in Sabers for a significant time, then took them both down with the force. She's evidently significantly above them.

I'm talking about Maladi, not Talon. lol

Originally posted by Selenial
Right.

Casually ignoring the other time, where she fought both Shado Vao and Wolf Sazen in Sabers for a significant time, then took them both down with the force. She's evidently significantly above them.

He's referring to Maladi, not Talon. Atris getting past 3 is obviously pure cancer.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I looked at it on her respect thread. I'm sure there were off-panel portions, but on-panel, the only thing we see is her using Lightning and Shado blocking it - several times. Rakghouls then intervene and break them up. That's not beyond Atris, lol.

Most of it was off-panel, they fought for 9 pages. Which is in my RT, since I know duel lengths come up often in debates uhuh

Well, your RT also shows that one of the "pages" is the two of them brandishing their blades - another is Rakghouls charging at them. The other two shown are just her firing Lightning at him and him blocking it on his saberstaff.

Even if the five off-panel pagesconsisted of more than that, it's not beyond Atris.

By the way, your RT has her resisting Muur's Lightning, but she was only hit by the TK, it seems.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I'm talking about Maladi, not Talon. lol

Then I'll allow your curiosity mmm

3 or 4

Originally posted by SunRazer
By the way, your RT has her resisting Muur's Lightning, but she was only hit by the TK, it seems.

My RT says collateral damage. Take it as you will.

Not getting past Talon. Everyone afterwards is above Talon so... Not getting past them either.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
My RT says collateral damage. Take it as you will.

Collateral of the Maelstrom, sure, but not the Lightning.

Anyway, not seeing anything Maladi has beyond Atris in any department - the latter should win resoundingly. Combat skill? Literally the only thing we have for her regarding a blade is a proposed off-panel clash with Shado Vao, even though she's clearly more of a Mage and the fight was more likely to be based on her using Lightning than clashing blades (much, at least). Atris being more skilled than Kavar, mastering Juyo and stalemating Brianna, who B-team'd the other Handmaidens, is better.

Knowledge? Maladi's ambiguously studied holocrons and forbidden knowledge. In addition to whatever she gleamed as the Head Archivist of the Order, Atris has studied dozens of ancient Sith holocrons which she claims give her access to ancient teachings of combat and the Force. Maladi hasn't shown any potentially combat-useful powers besides the usual TK and Lightning. Atris has Drain, Stasis, etc. She's ahead here as well.

Telekinesis? Atris effortlessly closing huge doors that can't be burnt through by a plasma torch, ragdolling Brianna, and throwing Brianna (albeit a defenseless one) across a room matches Maladi using effort to TK a Cade who seemed to be caught off-guard. Seems about even here - there won't be a meaningful edge either way.

Lightning? Maladi torturing some helpless people and Atris bringing an unarmed Brianna to her knees - about equal, again. Maladi did create a pretty big Storm alongside Krayt, but Krayt almost certainly did the vast majority of the work there, and Atris can fire Lightning Storms as well. Doubt there's much of a difference here, either.

Healing? Maladi appears to be skilled in the art, and can put others into a Meditation Trance. Which is nice, but not even remotely useful in combat. Atris healed herself from critical injury (potentially by a lightsaber, too) in just a matter of moments alone. Now, she was out of combat there as well, but the short time suggests that she could make some of use of Healing mid-duel - probably more effectively than Maladi, as well.

Atris beats Maladi and should get up to Talon.

Atris closing huge doors with TK? You sure that the doors just don't close on their own?

Well, they're open when Brianna comes back to fight the Handmaidens for the entire fight, even though there's nobody near them. It's not an automatically opening or closing door. In fact, if you go up to them and click on them, it says that they can't be opened by conventional means.

There was no conventional means of opening them, and they clearly weren't automatic doors because the Exile goes right up to them and nothing happens.

Ah, been awhile since I've played the game, so fair enough.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Combat skill? Literally the only thing we have for her regarding a blade is a proposed off-panel clash with Shado Vao, even though she's clearly more of a Mage and the fight was more likely to be based on her using Lightning than clashing blades (much, at least). Atris being more skilled than Kavar, mastering Juyo and stalemating Brianna, who B-team'd the other Handmaidens, is better.

Shado was cutting down siths when was only a padawan and fodderising them in his prime. He was an unmatched duelist at the start of the series. He held his own against Talon in sabers, and he was better than Wolf who stalemated Stryfe to death in a sith temple.

Shado > Atris.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Knowledge? Maladi's ambiguously studied holocrons and forbidden knowledge. In addition to whatever she gleamed as the Head Archivist of the Order, Atris has studied dozens of ancient Sith holocrons which she claims give her access to ancient teachings of combat and the Force. Maladi hasn't shown any potentially combat-useful powers besides the usual TK and Lightning. Atris has Drain, Stasis, etc. She's ahead here as well.

There's nothing ambiguous about it lol. Maladi's knowledge rivals/exceeds Krayt's.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Healing? Maladi appears to be skilled in the art, and can put others into a Meditation Trance. Which is nice, but not even remotely useful in combat. Atris healed herself from critical injury (potentially by a lightsaber, too) in just a matter of moments alone. Now, she was out of combat there as well, but the short time suggests that she could make some of use of Healing mid-duel - probably more effectively than Maladi, as well.

Maybe, but Maladi was the top healer of an entire Sith Order. I wouldn't write that down.

Also you skipped the part where Maladi semi-successfully mind ****ed Cade who roughly a year prior casually resisted Karness Muur

I thought Cade turned it around and started mind****ing her. That's barely a demi-success. More like an outright fail.

Maladi's knowlege neither rivals nor exceeds Krayt.

Especially since Wyyrlok's stated definitively to exceed her, even in the knowledge department.

Originally posted by Selenial
Maladi's knowlege neither rivals nor exceeds Krayt.

Especially since Wyyrlok's stated definitively to exceed her, even in the knowledge department.

Yeah right, that's why Krayt didn't even know what a rakghoul is.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Yeah right, that's why Krayt didn't even know what a rakghoul is.

Which is bizarre, given that his Sith Master was XoXaan...

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Yeah right, that's why Krayt didn't even know what a rakghoul is.

Holy shit that's the stupider thing anyone's said on this forum in the past week.

And that's saying something.

What a retort.

Except he didn't know, and that's that. Your tantrum won't change that.

Maladi was a master in alchemy, Wyyrlok III was a master of dark side knowledge and techniques.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
What a retort.

Except he didn't know, and that's that. Your tantrum won't change that.

Your initial line acts like your comment was a genuine argument. Here was me having enough faith that you were joking.

Knowledge of ancient species is ****ing irrelevant, Wyyrlok was already stated as having far more knowledge of Dark Side Techniques than her, something that you know, is actually relevant to a fight. Same with Krayt, he unlocked the holocrons of Darths Andeddu, Nihilus and Bane, some of the most infamous and teaching rich holocrons of the Sith.

Given that Wyyrlok could only uncover one of those after Krayt's death, it's pretty obvious Maladi, who'd have far more restricted access, also never got a chance to study them.

He unlocked the holocrons of Andeddu, Nihilus, and Bane? I'm a stout supporter of Krayt as well, but that's just a lie--they all rejected him.

Originally posted by Selenial
Nah, she'd beat Nihl but falls to Talon.

Talon above Nihl? Or Atris matches up better against him somehow? I confess I don't see any advantage Talon has over Nihl above except she's maybe more acrobatic.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
He unlocked the holocrons of Andeddu, Nihilus, and Bane? I'm a stout supporter of Krayt as well, but that's just a lie--they all rejected him.

mmm

I haven't read Legacy in over a year, but I was under the impression he forced the holocrons open quite early in the series.

Edit: I always interpreted the "I take what I desire" line and the disappearance of them to suggest he'd overpowered them, but I see your point. Still, the point stands, Maladi's knowledge of combat applicable powers is shockingly pale in comparison to Krayt's.

Originally posted by Selenial
Your initial line acts like your comment was a genuine argument. Here was me having enough faith that you were joking.

Says someone who thinks Atris would beat Nihl mmm

Originally posted by Selenial
Knowledge of ancient species is ****ing irrelevant, Wyyrlok was already stated as having far more knowledge of Dark Side Techniques than her, something that you know, is actually relevant to a fight. Same with Krayt, he unlocked the holocrons of Darths Andeddu, Nihilus and Bane, some of the most infamous and teaching rich holocrons of the Sith.

It's not knowledge of ancient species, it's knowledge of sith alchemy lol. Which falls under knowledge of the dark side.
Wyyrlok was never stated to have far more knowledge than Maladi, simply that he's knowledge is unparalleled. Which ironically includes Krayt too.

Also Krayt's knowledge was never been stated to be better than Maladi's iirc. If you have a quote by all means show it.

Originally posted by Selenial
Given that Wyyrlok could only uncover one of those after Krayt's death, it's pretty obvious Maladi, who'd have far more restricted access, also never got a chance to study them.

Considering Maladi already accessed forbidden knowledge it's irrelevant

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
It's not knowledge of ancient species, it's knowledge of sith alchemy lol. Which falls under knowledge of the dark side.
Wyyrlok was never stated to have far more knowledge than Maladi, simply that he's knowledge is unparalleled. Which ironically includes Krayt too.

Also Krayt's knowledge was never been stated to be better than Maladi's iirc. If you have a quote by all means show it.

And please tell me how knowledge of alchemy is in any way relevant to the combat knowledge that Nova was talking about.

So just to get this straight, you're suggesting the Rakghoul thing is proof of Krayt's spymaster having more knowledge of the combat applicable arts of the Dark Side than him?

I mean I'd argue she's not even more knowledgable about Combat than Talon and Nihl, let alone Krayt.

Alchemy means literally nothing in an engagement like this, and wasn't what Nova was talking about at all

Except that wasn't my argument at all. I said she studied all the holocrons including the forbidden ones. Then you threw your tantrum about Wyyrlok and Krayt hur dur, for which I replied with a documented case where Maladi's knowledge exceeds Krayt's.

Nice try to, now you can go back to retirement.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Except that wasn't my argument at all. I said she studied all the holocrons including the forbidden ones. Then you threw your tantrum about Wyyrlok and Krayt hur dur, for which I replied with a documented case where Maladi's knowledge exceeds Krayt's.

Nice try to, now you can go back to retirement.

Incorrect.

Nova was arguing about combat applicable knowledge, and defined Maladi's knowledge as ambiguous because you cannot dictate what she learned from said holocrons, whereas Atris learned specifically combat and war relayed techniques of the Sith.

And when you replied, you merely stated that "there's nothing ambiguous, her knowledge surpasses Krayt's"

If you're suggesting her Knowledge surpasses Krayt's when discussing combat applicable powers, you are insinuating her combat knowledge was better. And when pressed on it, your only cite-able example was him not knowing what a Rakghoul was.

I understand your obsession with Maladi, but that's frankly laughable. An instance where her knowledge of history eclipses his does not indicate she knows more than he does.

I may be retired, but you are still not my equal, dear. You'd do well to remember that.

Originally posted by Selenial
Incorrect.

Nova was arguing about combat applicable knowledge, and defined Maladi's knowledge as ambiguous because you cannot dictate what she learned from said holocrons, whereas Atris learned specifically combat and war relayed techniques of the Sith.

And when you replied, you merely stated that "there's nothing ambiguous, her knowledge surpasses Krayt's"

Originally posted by SunRazer
Maladi's ambiguously studied holocrons and forbidden knowledge.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
There's nothing ambiguous about it lol. Maladi's knowledge rivals/exceeds Krayt's.

You moving the goal post to save face is cute tbh. The fact is you think I claimed something else than what I actually said, because you got butthurt over your precious Kotor II wank.

Originally posted by Selenial
If you're suggesting her Knowledge surpasses Krayt's when discussing combat applicable powers, you are insinuating her combat knowledge was better. And when pressed on it, your only cite-able example was him not knowing what a Rakghoul was.

Which is still a lot more than your temper tantrums. Please share your incredible sources that state Krayt's knowledge > Maladi's. Anyway I was talking about dark side knowledge in general.

Originally posted by Selenial
I understand your obsession with Maladi, but that's frankly laughable. An instance where her knowledge of history eclipses his does not indicate she knows more than he does.

You playing the biased card? That's pretty rich. I wonder how many people would consider this blind wanking:

Originally posted by Selenial
Nah, Atris'd beat Nihl.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
You moving the goal post to save face is cute tbh. The fact is you think I claimed something else than what I actually said, because you got butthurt over your precious Kotor II wank.

Moving the goalposts? You quoted an entire passage in which Nova was discussing "teachings of combat and the Force" and "combat-useful powers" where Nova declared Atris ahead. You countered by saying "Maladi's knowledge rivals/exceeds Krayt's." You are the one who never clarified you were talking about dark side knowledge in general or alchemy knowledge so, my dear Zoltan, you are the one moving the goalposts. It's not difficult to grasp

Oh, and forgive me, I completely forgot Darth Krayt was a KotOR II character. How foolish of me




No, you've moved the goalposts and pretended that's what you were discussing when you were proven wrong

Anyway, by your logic, Krayt knowing Dark Transfer and Maladi not immediately places Krayt above her in all areas of combat knowledge. Neat little trick you have here.



Probably plenty of people who know nothing about both of those characters. I have Talon below Nihl, I merely believe Atris' skillset gives her an advantage over someone who is overall a superior combatant to her.

Shoot me.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Probably down at 1.

Divison within the ranks, this pleases me.

Down at 1.

Originally posted by Selenial
Moving the goalposts? You quoted an entire passage in which Nova was discussing "teachings of combat and the Force" and "combat-useful powers" where Nova declared Atris ahead. You countered by saying "Maladi's knowledge rivals/exceeds Krayt's." You are the one who never clarified you were talking about dark side knowledge in general or alchemy knowledge so, my dear Zoltan, you are the one moving the goalposts. It's not difficult to grasp

It's called context. Nova said that her learning from holocrons is ambiguous. For which I replied they are not. Maybe your linguistic skills are not up for the task despite speaking like 4 languages mmm

Originally posted by Selenial
Oh, and forgive me, I completely forgot Darth Krayt was a KotOR II character. How foolish of me

Yeah I'm sure the point was Krayt > Maladi and not at all Atris > Maladi. But doesn't matter, you wank him just as much.

Originally posted by Selenial
No, you've moved the goalposts and pretended that's what you were discussing when you were proven wrong

Nah it was just your inability to perceive context what made you think that.

Originally posted by Selenial
Anyway, by your logic, Krayt knowing Dark Transfer and Maladi not immediately places Krayt above her in all areas of combat knowledge. Neat little trick you have here.

Straw man. I said Maladi rivals/exceeds Krayt's knowledge (note I didn't even flat out claim Malaid > Krayt) based on her access to forbidden holocrons, and when you even denied the possibility I brought up an instance where Maladi knew more.

Originally posted by Selenial
Probably plenty of people who know nothing about both of those characters. I have Talon below Nihl, I merely believe Atris' skillset gives her an advantage over someone who is overall a superior combatant to her.

Shoot me.

No skillset would make up for Nihl shitting all over her.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
It's called context. Nova said that her learning from holocrons is ambiguous. For which I replied they are not. Maybe your linguistic skills are not up for the task despite speaking like 4 languages mmm

And it was ambiguous in the context of combat ability. He was making his entire post on combat ability. You quoted the entire section on knowledge relating to combat ability.

If someone needs to pay more attention to the context dear, it's you.

Unless you want to admit to being a 90 year old man and suggest your point had absolutely nothing to do with the segment you just so happened to quote.



Krayt wank you have outright stated on numerous occasions to support. Seems to me like you're changing your opinions just to summon a strawman



Out of curiosity, who the **** do you think could stop Krayt from studying the forbidden holocrons? He attempted to (and succeeded imo) study Nihilus' Holocron, which was the epitome of forbidden to the Sith.

Originally posted by Selenial
And it was ambiguous in the context of combat ability. He was making his entire post on combat ability. You quoted the entire section on knowledge relating to combat ability.

If someone needs to pay more attention to the context dear, it's you.

Unless you want to admit to being a 90 year old man and suggest your point had absolutely nothing to do with the segment you just so happened to quote.

"Maladi ambiguously studied holocrons" vs "Maladi studied holocrons with ambiguous content". Spot the difference

Originally posted by Selenial
Krayt wank you have outright stated on numerous occasions to support. Seems to me like you're changing your opinions just to summon a strawman

I did no such thing. I support Krayt when I think he's winning, I don't wank him just for the sake of wanking. I don't even really like him.

Originally posted by Selenial
Out of curiosity, who the **** do you think could stop Krayt from studying the forbidden holocrons? He attempted to (and succeeded imo) study Nihilus' Holocron, which was the epitome of forbidden to the Sith.

No one? Obviously they were forbidden by him. But Maladi gained access to the same holocrons which is why I said he's rivaling Krayt's knowledge with a possibility, but not certainty, of exceeding it based on the sole instance their knowledge was compared.

Down at one?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Shado was cutting down siths when was only a padawan and fodderising them in his prime. He was an unmatched duelist at the start of the series. He held his own against Talon in sabers, and he was better than Wolf who stalemated Stryfe to death in a sith temple.

Shado > Atris.

Show me Maladi matching Shado in a lightsaber contest.



We're talking combat knowledge here. Anything to substantiate this claim?

And yes, it is ambiguous. We have no idea what she learned or didn't learn from those holocrons.



Atris was the head librarian of the Jedi Order but you wrote that one off pretty quickly.



On a nexus, and not sure about his condition at the time. And this doesn't seem combat-applicable.