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*Maul can only defend himself with the force
*Maul is immobile
*Force user can only use telekinesis
*No Plagueis, Nihilus, Vitiate, Luke, Sidious, Yoda mentions
*No nexus feats or powerscaling

What Sith or Jedi could ragdoll Maul bloodlusted/morals off?

Dooku, Vader, Caedus?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Dooku, Vader, Caedus?
No, eh, no.

Oh shit idk

Krayt
Kun?

Galen.

Vader, Krayt, Galen after a while.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No, eh, no. Then there isn't anyone.

Revan?

Yeah Revan could

Vader ragdolling isn't implausible. Dooku ragdolling, however, is.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Vader ragdolling isn't implausible. Dooku ragdolling, however, is.

Yeah. Dooku would have a real hard time dominating Maul with the Force.

About as much as Sidious, I'd say.

You might think that. I couldn't possibly comment.

Maul and Dooku are roughly equals. Vader and Maul are loosely comparable. They are not ragdolling Maul.

I think there's misconception that if one has strong offensive force showings, naturally their telekinetic defenses must be similarly as strong. This is clearly not the case. Kenobi has comparable, if not beter showings than Maul when it comes to TK, yet Maul has Force gripped him. Dooku has done the same, albiet with greater ease and while fending off another attacker. It's not a stretch to suggest that Dooku could Ragdoll Maul.

I wank Dooku about as hard as you can feasibly get, lol. I'm aware that he's above Maul in terms of power - above his level, in fact, but that doesn't mean he can ragdoll.

Is the OP referring to Maul being bloodlusted or whoever's trying to ragdoll him?

I'm not questioning wether Dooku is leaps and bounds ahead of Maul in raw potency, but rather the entire philosophy that someone has to vastly more powerful in the force than their opponent, to 'ragdoll' said opponent. Clearly that's not always the case.

Depends. Is what Maul has done to Kenobi in the past considered ragdolling?

Or the way Ventress choked Kenobi and Skywalker in Nightsisters?

Maul has landed two legitimate hits on Kenobi.

The first was a Force choke in the comics, the second was a Force grip when the Jedi master engaged both Maul and his brother on Florum. The first could easily be influenced by some massive surge of anger... as we do know that even Maul can press Sidious in such an extreme state. The second was where Kenobi was obviously fighting to the best of his offensive ability - and perhaps not paying much mind to his Force shield, but even then, Maul could not suspend him mid-air for more then a couple of seconds.

I don't think power is really the only necessary thing to consider when it comes to "ragdolling" either. Opportunity, speed, and surprise are other elements that have a crucial impact; Vader and Dooku could very well ragdoll Maul, if the circumstances were right. The only people that could shatter his defenses at any time are probably the top tiers, though.

That's fair. If Dooku's bloodlusted here, I could see him breaking Maul's Force defenses.

And yet, we know that if came to a Mano-E-Mano contest of raw Force power, Dooku would probably win that much too:

http://www.facegarage.com/content/uploads/ytToGIF_feaagcraeg910178.gif

Well, to be fair, it seemed like Dooku redirected some of the momentum from Anakin's push and coupled it with his own. Speaks toward his skill with the Force either way, though, I suppose. mmm

That's Anakin shortly after AotC, anyway.

Anakin shortly after AotC is still probably more sheerly powerful than Maul is.

Anakin's failure to redirect the sand tornado there seems more like a case of Force mastery than raw power.

Malgus. Arcann, Revan....

Malgus ragdolling Maul? Damn.

Maul isn't stronger than the TOR protags.

You really think Malgus could ragdoll the TOR protags? He lost, lmfao.

Unless something's changed, Neph's long held the stance that Malgus could ragdoll the Hero and the Barsen'thor at the same time, but still lose to the Hero solo. Which, to be fair, isn't necessarily a ridiculous idea; under the right circumstances, Ventress did the same to Kenobi and Anakin, who are both her betters.

Yeah. He was too busy trying to chase the support droid in circles that he forgot about the HoT, who broke free of his Choke and killed him.

Against four of them. Obviously we're not talking about all of them together. Mauls not stronger than any of the Force users individually.

I've never suggested Malgus could ragdoll the Hero and Thor at the same time, lol.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Which, to be fair, isn't necessarily a ridiculous idea; under the right circumstances, Ventress did the same to Kenobi and Anakin, who are both her betters.

You mean whilst enraged, in TCW (a medium of absolute inconsistency) and probable PIS?

Nobody brings up Ventress Choking them both as a feat for her, anyway.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Against four of them. Obviously we're not talking about all of them together. Mauls not stronger than any of the Force users individually.

Just when has Malgus ragdolled any of them?

False Emperor.

First of all, he never ragdolls them. Secondly, it's with all four anyways.

First of all, he does. Secondly, he only ragdoll three of them.

Mmhmm. When, specifically?

During the fight. He fills one of their minds with visions of doubt, ragdolls the rest then fights the remaining one solo, losing and releasing their comrades. It's a scripted sequence

It's one of his attacks in the gameplay.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
It's one of his attacks in the gameplay.
Originally posted by Nephthys
During the fight. He fills one of their minds with visions of doubt, ragdolls the rest then fights the remaining one solo, losing and releasing their comrades. It's a scripted sequence

I know, I was waiting for you to say it, lmfao. Firstly, Choking somebody and lifting them in the air is something to the effect of domination but not exactly a ragdoll. Anyway, you're proposing that Malgus can so easily lift up, say, HoT, Barsen'thor and one of the others, and then, while they're helpless, he's stupid enough to chase the last non-Force sensitive (and fail to kill them whilst they're mentally afflicted, no less) instead of plunging his saber into the hapless bodies of his Choked victims? Especially if he has HoT and Barsen'thor, the two most powerful of his enemies, helpless in the air? Why wouldn't he throw his saber at them, kill them then, and then worry about the non-Force sensitives later (which would only take two gestures to snap their necks)? Gee, maybe it's his battlefield feats of stupidity that have never been replicated.

Gameplay scripted mechanics in TOR are absolute bullshit, lol. Even the non-Force sensitives pose challenges to the protags. I mean, HK-47 and other droids not being absolutely wrecked by, say, Nox's Lightning immediately? It's all fluff to make the bosses seem fancy and powerful. The reality is that Malgus would never be able to Choke HoT and Barsen'thor + one another at once without having to gesture and still fighting somebody else, just as HK would be instantly Force Crushed or shocked by Lightning into destruction.

Originally posted by Nephthys
During the fight. He fills one of their minds with visions of doubt, ragdolls the rest then fights the remaining one solo, losing and releasing their comrades. It's a scripted sequence

lel

Originally posted by SunRazer
I know, I was waiting for you to say it, lmfao. Firstly, Choking somebody and lifting them in the air is something to the effect of domination but not exactly a ragdoll. Anyway, you're proposing that Malgus can so easily lift up, say, HoT, Barsen'thor and one of the others, and then, while they're helpless, he's stupid enough to chase the last non-Force sensitive (and fail to kill them whilst they're mentally afflicted, no less) instead of plunging his saber into the hapless bodies of his Choked victims? Especially if he has HoT and Barsen'thor, the two most powerful of his enemies, helpless in the air? Why wouldn't he throw his saber at them, kill them then, and then worry about the non-Force sensitives later (which would only take two gestures to snap their necks)? Gee, maybe it's his battlefield feats of stupidity that have never been replicated.

Gameplay scripted mechanics in TOR are absolute bullshit, lol. Even the non-Force sensitives pose challenges to the protags. I mean, HK-47 and other droids not being absolutely wrecked by, say, Nox's Lightning immediately? It's all fluff to make the bosses seem fancy and powerful. The reality is that Malgus would never be able to Choke HoT and Barsen'thor + one another at once without having to gesture and still fighting somebody else, just as HK would be instantly Force Crushed or shocked by Lightning into destruction.

See this is why I think it's kinda hard to debate TOR stuff, as the vast majority of the fights are just gameplay related and some don't really make much sense.

He's scripted to drop them after a period of time, btw, not scripted to drop them after losing. That's why you have people doing things like just kiting him during those sequences.

But losing to Smuggler or Trooper solo after afflicting them mentally is just as humiliating

I knew you already knew, I was hoping you'd try playing dumb. Trap sprung, fool!

Lifting someone into the air for a long period of time without them able to break out isn't a ragdoll? Fascinating logic there.

Like I said, I've never claimed he could ragdoll both force users. That's ridiculous. And yes, it makes perfect sense that the remains protags could press him such that he can't finish off the others. He is overcome by them after all.

Non force users can last a long time against Jedi and Sith with tech and support, which hk had. There's plenty of examples in all eras of it happening.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Non force users can last a long time against Jedi and Sith with tech and support, which hk had. There's plenty of examples in all eras of it happening.

Well at least someone noticed this. I'll buy this one to a point. The Foundry one a little moreso than the FE Station one.

Fact though I still find it strange to debate these fights, perhaps use them to a certain point but that's kinda it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Trap sprung, fool!

That's what the Trooper said to Malgus after the Strike Team toyed with him the whole time. They then proceeded to knock him into the battle station core



Ragdolling as in throwing them around. I said it's domination to the same effect as a ragdoll, but not precisely a ragdoll.



Except in game mechanics, he has to Choke each of combinations, meaning that there's at least one with HoT & Barsen'thor + one other being Choked. And then he fails to beat the Trooper by himself despite the latter being plagued with mental afflictions? lmfao



The fight starts off with HK alone, and it's all four of the Imp protags. HK's a good fighter, but not durable enough to withstand a single TK Crush or Lightning burst (he got one-shotted by T3 in KotOR II, for god sakes).

And as good as he is, HK-47 can't possibly fight them all at once, LMFAO. If he's attacking the Sith, his head gets blown off by the Agent or his whole body gets annihilated by a BH rocket. If he's fighting one of the non-Force sensitives, the Sith just pick him up and crush him with the Force or one-shot him with Lightning.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
See this is why I think it's kinda hard to debate TOR stuff, as the vast majority of the fights are just gameplay related and some don't really make much sense.

Some of it works, but I've given up trying to make sense of TOR's in-battle game mechanics. They're all worthless fluff to make the bosses look strong. Disco Ball Lightning and faux Chokes don't count for the square root of jack shit, lol.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Some of it works, but I've given up trying to make sense of TOR's in-battle game mechanics. They're all worthless fluff to make the bosses look strong. Disco Ball Lightning and faux Chokes don't count for the square root of jack shit, lol.

The Disco Lighting Ball could be useful for dance battles.

Not that Maul'd be any good at them in TCW.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I wank Dooku about as hard as you can feasibly get, lol. I'm aware that he's above Maul in terms of power - above his level, in fact, but that doesn't mean he can ragdoll.

Is the OP referring to Maul being bloodlusted or whoever's trying to ragdoll him?

I'd love to see your definition of "ragdolling".

Originally posted by SunRazer
That's fair. If Dooku's bloodlusted here, I could see him breaking Maul's Force defenses.

Sorry. What force defenses are you talking about? I might be wrong, and certainly look forward to be educated, but the only testament of Maul's "force defense" I have seen is him pretty much "ignoring" the "Force Lightning" attack of a Nightsister.

Meanwhile, Dooku dominates the likes of Anakin, Obi-Wan, Tholme, Sora Bulq, Asajj Ventress, Savage Opress rather easily with the Force. And, you know, apparently Dooku's power-level did even give TPM!Sidious pause:


"You wish to learn the secrets of the dark side?"
"I confess that I do."
Palpatine restrained an impulse to reveal his true identity. Dooku was strong in the Force, and might simply be attempting to draw him out.
- Star Wars: Darth Plagueis, Epilog.

That Sidious thinks Dooku could attempt to draw him out in order to confront him based on Dooku's strength in the Force is quite a testament to Dooku's skill in that regard. Not saying that he could have defeated TPM!Sidious, but at least Sidious saw him as challenge - contrary to Maul. And we know that Dooku did become more powerful and dangerous after that, by his own admission as well as by pretty much all sources available on the issue. Although I have to admit that TCW makes him look like a clown in more than one moment.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It's a scripted sequence Lmao

Do you not realise you're replying to a remark that Ant made... Nearly 4 years ago?

Id say only the elite could ragdoll him now. So Yoda, Sidious, Luke and Vader. Possibly Snoke Given hes a deformed Palpatine clone.

I dont see Mace or Dooku ragdolling him. Heck im not even sure if Dooku has much of an edge on him in the Force anymore.

Darth Caedus is not ragdolling Darth Maul. He could not ragdoll Kyle Katarn.