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No prep.
No BFR.
DS is used to The body he's in.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Kxxo4JuzvNE/hqdefault.jpg

Soooooo ds with class 100 strength? Meh I'll still give it to Bruce. Even if he's used to the body he's still not use to that degree of punishment.

Bruce would still **** him up. Deathstroke is less skilled than Hercules. He has the advantage of his amped tactical mind, but then again, Hercules is a God with tons of experience.

This probably goes even better for the Hulk.

Do remember that by and large, everyone's displayed "skill" tends to decrease as they get more powerful. Just another comic convention.

He's not less skilled

Originally posted by Sin I AM
He's not less skilled didn't herc match Elekra in a sword fight and beat on the hobgoblin?

Originally posted by deathslash
didn't herc match Elekra in a sword fight and beat on the hobgoblin?

Lol at hobgoblin but I'd like to see the Elektra fight

Originally posted by deathslash
didn't herc match Elekra in a sword fight and beat on the hobgoblin? Nothing Slade couldn't do

Originally posted by Cogito
Nothing Slade couldn't do without his super serum? Cause herc did it without his powers.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Lol at hobgoblin but I'd like to see the Elektra fight http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/4936077.html?style=light&thread=155116173

There you go.

Yea I seen it. Herc had a magic sword that could cut thru anything and a magic shield that could block anything. Meh.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Yea I seen it. Herc had a magic sword that could cut thru anything and a magic shield that could block anything. Meh.

So if you were giving those items, you could hang with Elektra?

Originally posted by carver9
So if you were giving those items, you could hang with Elektra? it would definitely require a good amount of skill to do that.

Also, I'm wondering sin, why is hanging with hobgoblin not a good feat?

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
Bruce would still **** him up. Deathstroke is less skilled than Hercules. He has the advantage of his amped tactical mind, but then again, Hercules is a God with tons of experience.

This probably goes even better for the Hulk.

Do remember that by and large, everyone's displayed "skill" tends to decrease as they get more powerful. Just another comic convention.
Wut? Slade is far more skilled than Hercules. GTFO.

Originally posted by carver9
So if you were giving those items, you could hang with Elektra?

Flawless Victory.

Originally posted by carver9
So if you were giving those items, you could hang with Elektra?

If i had those weapons id hang with Odin

Originally posted by deathslash
it would definitely require a good amount of skill to do that.

Also, I'm wondering sin, why is hanging with hobgoblin not a good feat?

I didnt realize hobgoblin was a legit ma. Id love to see those scans

I would think Slade has the decisive edge in skill but i dont it would give him the majority here.

Me either. Never seen a class 100 do backflips and shit save diana. They leave the circus stuff for the bush leagues

Slade wins, Hulk would probably never lay a hand on him.

So you think Slade in Hercules' body is gonna fight just like he did as DS, but just hit harder? I don't think comics usually work that way.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
So you think Slade in Hercules' body is gonna fight just like he did as DS, but just hit harder? I don't think comics usually work that way. This isnt a comic though

Originally posted by Sin I AM
If i had those weapons id hang with Odin



I didnt realize hobgoblin was a legit ma. Id love to see those scans hobgoblin still hangs with spider-man. You know, spider-man? The guy that has the proportional speed and strength of a spider?

Originally posted by iceman24567
This isnt a comic though

That's twice today people have told me that we don't rate fights the way writers do in the actual books. Has this board been invaded by time-traveling CBR posters from 12 years ago?

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
That's twice today people have told me that we don't rate fights the way writers do in the actual books. Has this board been invaded by time-traveling CBR posters from 12 years ago? WTF are you talking about?

Originally posted by deathslash
hobgoblin still hangs with spider-man. You know, spider-man? The guy that has the proportional speed and strength of a spider?

Which hobgoblin its like 8 of em? And yea parker is overrated

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Which hobgoblin its like 8 of em? And yea parker is overrated Jason macendale. The one with the sonic laugh power.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
Deathstroke is less skilled than Hercules.

lol

Originally posted by deathslash
Jason macendale. The one with the sonic laugh power.

Sonic laugh was actually one of the new Green Goblins' power. Who became Hobby much later.

You're thinking of Phil Urich.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Sonic laugh was actually one of the new Green Goblins' power. Who became Hobby much later.

You're thinking of Phil Urich.

Wasnt he gutted by green goblin or something anyway

A lot of stuff happened in Slott's run, I'm not sure.

What I do know is that super-laugh was Urich's trademark trick, not Macendale's...

Macendale was known for 2 things: making a deal with a demon and appearing in the 90s TAS. He was the first Goblin in that cartoon, before Norman even.

Pretty sure Urich is Goblin Knight now, or whatever. He was Norman's second in command.

Parker is overrated.

Well, thats the stupidest thing i've read this...lifetime.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
That's twice today people have told me that we don't rate fights the way writers do in the actual books. Has this board been invaded by time-traveling CBR posters from 12 years ago? Forums generally determine who would win by a characters capabilities and how they conduct themselves in a fight, ei mindset, morality, tactics that they use etc.

Originally posted by RadZoa
Forums generally determine who would win by a characters capabilities and how they conduct themselves in a fight, ei mindset, morality, tactics that they use etc.

And we use comics to determine that, not made up myths.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
A lot of stuff happened in Slott's run, I'm not sure.

What I do know is that super-laugh was Urich's trademark trick, not Macendale's...

Macendale was known for 2 things: making a deal with a demon and appearing in the 90s TAS. He was the first Goblin in that cartoon, before Norman even.

Macendale was demogoblin right? Meh too many goblins between Ulrich, Leeds who was goblin then wasnt then was hypnotized to believe he was, then lefty, thrn then the other kingsley, the the butler lol. Shitty character. The should've kept it a mystery.

Originally posted by riv6672
Parker is overrated.

Well, thats the stupidest thing i've read this...lifetime.

He is...that's a fact

Originally posted by carver9
And we use comics to determine that, not made up myths. I know....I was referring to how writers would write a comic book rather than using feats and being in character.

I understand that you aren't very intelligent though Carver, so I forgive you.

Not quite clear what you are arguing, but it's a very important topic. Some people are sliding back into the old days where we imagine that if a character has used a certain ability once they will use it whenever it makes sense.

Now it all begins to9 make sense...I just looked at the Battlezone for the first time. It's truly 2002 Comic Book Resources Rumbles Board reincarnated. It's a crazy place with crazy rules. Doctor Strange and Wonder Woman are called MID Herald lol

All good as long as people keep that shit in THERE and not out here!

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
Now it all begins to9 make sense...I just looked at the Battlezone for the first time. It's truly 2002 Comic Book Resources Rumbles Board reincarnated. It's a crazy place with crazy rules. Doctor Strange and Wonder Woman are called MID Herald lol

All good as long as people keep that shit in THERE and not out here!

You have a problem with the bz?

It's not how I like to think about comics--even for fun. But I realize that they know that what they are doing is divorced from comic reality. It's a way of making debates easier to arbitrate. So if that floats their boat, and they understand what it is that they are doing, go for it.

But I'd prefer if that mentality stays in the Battlezone. Out here, I like to discuss things from the perspective of how comics are actually written, even though that makes definitive, provable analysis much harder and everything fuzzier. But comics be fuzzy!

This whole thread is a good example of how fuzzy comics can be. The issue of skill levels as it pertains to streets vs. high ends is classic comics bullshit. Thor or a God of War will be said to be much more skilled than a street sometimes, and yet you rarely see it in action. It's a tough contradiction to deal with.

Pretty sure most of us place elite street level characters above somebody like Thor in skill

And in some ways, if we need a simplified call, I might agree. Not sure.

But underneath that simplification, it's actually a complex issue. In the old Marvel Superheroes Game, Hercules and Thor had significantly higher "Fighting" skill rankings than Captain America or Iron Fist.

It would be interesting to look at some examples of theoretically highly-skilled Herald-level characters when they are depowered. And elite streets when they have a temporary power up. I'm not sure we'd get anything decisive on the issue, but it might be illuminating .

I'm having trouble seeing a Slade who is transplanted into a Hercules body flipping around and fighting in his normal style.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Pretty sure most of us place elite street level characters above somebody like Thor in skill

This. Anyone who says thor or ares is above Nightwing or Deathstroke h2h is an idiot and generally gets treated as such.

And yet is someone asked Wonder Woman or Batman in the comics who is more skilled at HTH: Orion or Nightwing, what would the answer be?

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
And yet is someone asked Wonder Woman or Batman in the comics who is more skilled at HTH: Orion or Nightwing, what would the answer be? We have the benefit of looking at the big picture and we already went threw extensive, debating, voting ect to come to a consensus years ago.

Sure. You had to make a call. It might be the right call. But it's still worth bearing in mind the Gordion Knot of contradictions you had to cut to make that call.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
And yet is someone asked Wonder Woman or Batman in the comics who is more skilled at HTH: Orion or Nightwing, what would the answer be?

Those answers are obvious

Really. What are they?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Those answers are obvious To us they are

Read what I said. I didn't say who we as readers ultimately feel is more skilled. I asked who Batman and Wonder Woman would say are more skiled.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
Read what I said. I didn't say who we as readers ultimately feel is more skilled. I asked who Batman and Wonder Woman would say are more skiled. Well that depends on the writer and tbh writers can be the worst fanboys

Our job is not to make comics make more sense than they do, but rather to make as much sense of the comics as we can.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
Read what I said. I didn't say who we as readers ultimately feel is more skilled. I asked who Batman and Wonder Woman would say are more skiled.

It's not even that hard to guess. Just use h2h feats from both. It has nothing to do with fanboyism. Based on FEATS who is more skilled

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Macendale was demogoblin right? Meh too many goblins between Ulrich, Leeds who was goblin then wasnt then was hypnotized to believe he was, then lefty, thrn then the other kingsley, the the butler lol. Shitty character. The should've kept it a mystery.



He is...that's a fact
I'd acquiesce, but, i've never found your opinions to be facts.
I never will.

I fully expect the same of mine, which is why i put IMO/IMHO in a post when expressing mine.

Originally posted by riv6672
I'd acquiesce, but, i've never found your opinions to be facts.
I never will.

I fully expect the same of mine, which is why i put IMO/IMHO in a post when expressing mine.

Everything i stated was fact though so yea wrong again.

Sn adding imo is redundant when everything here is opinion based.

Pftt my opinion is always fact

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Macendale was demogoblin right? Meh too many goblins between Ulrich, Leeds who was goblin then wasnt then was hypnotized to believe he was, then lefty, thrn then the other kingsley, the the butler lol. Shitty character. The should've kept it a mystery.

Was possessed by Demo, later Demo became a completely separate entity with its own body and a fiery glider, iirc...

Way too many Goblins. And that's not even counting extras like Gray Goblin or Menace.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Pftt my opinion is always fact

Ikr...damn noobs

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
And in some ways, if we need a simplified call, I might agree. Not sure.

But underneath that simplification, it's actually a complex issue. In the old Marvel Superheroes Game, Hercules and Thor had significantly higher "Fighting" skill rankings than Captain America or Iron Fist.

It would be interesting to look at some examples of theoretically highly-skilled Herald-level characters when they are depowered. And elite streets when they have a temporary power up. I'm not sure we'd get anything decisive on the issue, but it might be illuminating .

I'm having trouble seeing a Slade who is transplanted into a Hercules body flipping around and fighting in his normal style.

we saw a depowered herc do well in a fight against hulk, but ultimately get beaten down. he had some very good displays of skill while he was mortal. i think a lot of it boils down to styles. martian styles have evolved considerably over the last couple millennia. thor and herc may well have mastered different/older styles, but i don't think those more simplistic (??) styles can match up to some of the combination of styles that guys like iron fist for example, practice for hours daily to learn. i don't think i've ever seen thor or herc for that matter, really 'train' in the way guys like cap or fist or batman do. even ww trains with regularity in her books over the years.

i think slade in herc's body would do better than herc would normally do, but largely because of his tactical mind. even banner suggested herc was one of the few capable of stopping him. could he beat hulk? maybe. he's battled evenly with hulk a number of times so it's certainly possible, but wwh was much stronger than any previous incarnation. i don't think an increase in skill and brain power would be enough to get him too many wins, but it would make the fight interesting as hell imo.

Originally posted by leonidas
he's battled evenly with hulk a number of times so it's certainly possible

Whenever people say that, I can't help but see Hulk kicking him and calling "Skirt-Man"... or Herc needing help from an entire team(s)...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Was possessed by Demo, later Demo became a completely separate entity with its own body and a fiery glider, iirc...

Way too many Goblins. And that's not even counting extras like Gray Goblin or Menace.

Forgot about those two. So its Harry, Norman, Phil, Kingsley, Kingsley brother, Menace, Flash (i think he was framed or brainwashed), Grey Goblin (who is Gwens kid right?), Leeds, kingsleys butler lol, Normans psychiatrist, im sure im missing one. Surprised there isn't a female one. But yea all are exceptional h2h combatants > deathstroke

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Forgot about those two. So its Harry, Norman, Phil, Kingsley, Kingsley brother, Menace, Flash (i think he was framed or brainwashed), Grey Goblin (who is Gwens kid right?), Leeds, kingsleys butler lol, Normans psychiatrist, im sure im missing one. Surprised there isn't a female one. But yea all are exceptional h2h combatants > deathstroke

Menace is a female one.

I don't feel like listing them all, gives me a headache. Yeah, Gabriel was Gwen's and Norman's son.

Menace was female? I didnt think it was revealed. I hope it Wasnt gwen

It was. She even got pregnant.

Lily Hollister.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d5/Lilyhollister.PNG

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menace_(Marvel_Comics)

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It was. She even got pregnant.

Lily Hollister.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d5/Lilyhollister.PNG

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menace_(Marvel_Comics)

Lame as hell. Phuck u marvel

I remember that garbage

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Whenever people say that, I can't help but see Hulk kicking him and calling "Skirt-Man"... or Herc needing help from an entire team(s)...

lol

when was this? oh wait, was that in the video game? herc's history with hulk is pretty good. they battled evenly in champions, their first ever meeting wayy back was a great fight as well. they met briefly when hulk was prof hulk and things were even there as well. as far as pure bricks go, you'd be hard pressed finding one who has done as consistently well against hulk as herc has.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Lame as hell. Phuck u marvel

Originally posted by iceman24567
I remember that garbage

One thing I really liked about Menace was that she went Morlun on Puny Pete and beat the living shit out of him

Funny how they weren't sure who the father was... Norman or Harry Goblin family pathology at its finest, lulz.

Yea that's that bs after omd garbage. They even tried making mj relevant by giving her powers

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Everything i stated was fact though...

...everything here is opinion based.

What a maroon.

Originally posted by leonidas
lol

when was this? oh wait, was that in the video game? herc's history with hulk is pretty good. they battled evenly in champions, their first ever meeting wayy back was a great fight as well. they met briefly when hulk was prof hulk and things were even there as well. as far as pure bricks go, you'd be hard pressed finding one who has done as consistently well against hulk as herc has.

No, not the video game... even though he does call Herc skirt-man there, too... older comic, can't recall what it was anymore. Leaderslair site had Hulk's greatest battles listed and described in detail (including those against Herc), but it died.

Brb. Gonna check out ODG's thread.

Originally posted by leonidas
as far as pure bricks go, you'd be hard pressed finding one who has done as consistently well against hulk as herc has.

That's going too far, imo.

Namor and Thor seem to do much better.

F*ck ODG, he didn't include that epic battle in the thread.

namor underwater beat hulk, but...he's at something of an advantage there. and thor WITH hammer does better. without the hammer it didn't go all that well....lol i don't consider thor a brick at all though. he often fights like one, but he is STILL constantly hitting with the hammer. even that is a large advantage. and even WITH the hammer hulk has beaten him and thor's only wins come via the hammer. hulk hasn't beaten herc straight up except when he was mortal, which, oddly, was one of herc's best showings....

Namor faced hulk in the past decade? I would have like to have seen PF Namor vs Hulk

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
That's going too far, imo.

Namor and Thor seem to do much better.
How about The Thing?

Originally posted by leonidas
he often fights like one, but he is STILL constantly hitting with the hammer. even that is a large advantage.

Man, you don't know how lucky you are that Rage doesn't post here anymore.

He'd call his thorbag gang and visit you in your house He always had this obsession about Thor's fists being equal to Mjolnir, striking-wise.

Originally posted by riv6672
How about The Thing?

Had a good start iirc, but poor track record overall.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Yea that's that bs after omd garbage. They even tried making mj relevant by giving her powers

What was her superhero name? Jackpot?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Namor faced hulk in the past decade? I would have like to have seen PF Namor vs Hulk

Don't recall, but they had plenty of battles (resulting mostly in stalemates)...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Man, you don't know how lucky you are that Rage doesn't post here anymore.

He'd call his thorbag gang and visit you in your house He always had this obsession about Thor's fists being equal to Mjolnir, striking-wise.

lol i know he did, but i always thought that was bullsh!t.

Same here.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
F*ck ODG, he didn't include that epic battle in the thread.
Its from Giant Size Hulk 1 in 2006.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Man, you don't know how lucky you are that Rage doesn't post here anymore.

He'd call his thorbag gang and visit you in your house He always had this obsession about Thor's fists being equal to Mjolnir, striking-wise.



Had a good start iirc, but poor track record overall.
Its one of the best of the old school MU rivalries.
-shrug-