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Both are in their prime.

Round 1: Setting is Lothal
Round 2: Setting is the Ancient Abyss on Felucia

R1: Aryn, Shaak, Either way.

R2: Aryn, Shaak, Shaak.

Shaak wins all out in the second round due to the location.

Leneer slaughters in sabers, again not sure about force and takes all out on neutral ground , if the fight takes place on that gigantic Sarlacc on Felucia then Ti probably wins because of environmental manipulation as opposed to being more skilled.

Aryn stomps on both because Ti is SHIT.

Ti is shit, Galen, a near-perfect lightsaber combatant whose skill as a duelist is as great as his skill with the Force, clearly must be as well.

Aryn should beat RotS Shaak, tbh.

TFU Shaak (the one here), is a different story. I'd give her the edge in Force. Not convinced that she's winning sabers (at least not in an incredibly protracted and grueling fight), though.

Nah, Galen was on a Lightside nexus empowering Shaak and weakening him and he had just fought through an army of force users who used the Force as easily as humans breathe oxygen along with their rancor mounts before facing Ti who abused the environment that was under her total control. They fought mostly evenly even with these advantages for Shaak and disadvantages for Galen with Shaak only gaining the edges when she had the Sarlaac intervene and when she essentially sacrificed her defenses to attempt a kamikaze move on Galen which ultimately failed.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Nah, Galen was on a Lightside nexus empowering Shaak and weakening him and he had just fought through an army of force users who used the Force as easily as humans breathe oxygen along with their rancor mounts before facing Ti who abused the environment that was under her total control. They fought mostly evenly even with these advantages for Shaak and disadvantages for Galen with Shaak only gaining the edges when she had the Sarlaac intervene and when she essentially sacrificed her defenses to attempt a kamikaze move on Galen which ultimately failed.

lmao @ nitpicking the things that favour Galen from 3 different sources while omitting those that favoured Shaak and pretend that's how it went down.

Your wanking has no bounds

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
lmao @ nitpicking the things that favour Galen from 3 different sources while omitting those that favoured Shaak and pretend that's how it went down.

Your wanking has no bounds

Ahhh, thank you Zoltan.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
lmao @ nitpicking the things that favour Galen from 3 different sources while omitting those that favoured Shaak and pretend that's how it went down.

Your wanking has no bounds

Genuinely thought it was DMB when I read the post.

How far you've fallen, Syndicate

Originally posted by Selenial
Genuinely thought it was DMB when I read the post.

How far you've fallen, Syndicate Daily reminder for you to work on your Ti / Kas'im post.

youd think syn would want to make shaak ti as powerful as possible to make galen look better tbh

Originally posted by Selenial
How far you've fallen, Syndicate

Kek, he was never that high to begin with.

Originally posted by Nephthys
youd think syn would want to make shaak ti as powerful as possible to make galen look better tbh

Not saying Shaak's not powerful just that she had numerous advantages over Galen while Galen had numerous disadvantages.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Ti is shit, Galen, a near-perfect lightsaber combatant whose skill as a duelist is as great as his skill with the Force, clearly must be as well.

Malgus is more skilled than pre-Prime Galen whose best feats are Kazdan and Kota both of whom Aryn would kill. Perfect skill is a pretty accolade but far from proving he's more skilled than Malgus who had already bested the best Jedi of his era as of Deceived and already has comparable a accolades . She also struggled with him, where Aryn gave Malgus a greater fight than Zallow, Satele, Kao and scores of other Jedi

Originally posted by Syndicate
Not saying Shaak's not powerful just that she had numerous advantages over Galen while Galen had numerous disadvantages.

Cancer spreads on its own, no need to repeat it

Originally posted by carthage
Malgus is more skilled than pre-Prime Galen whose best feats are Kazdan and Kota both of whom Aryn would kill. Perfect skill is a pretty accolade but far from proving he's more skilled than Malgus who had already bested the best Jedi of his era as of Deceived and already has comparable a accolades . She also struggled with him, where Aryn gave Malgus a greater fight than Zallow, Satele, Kao and scores of other Jedi

Skilled? Debatable. We know that lightsaber combat is based off of technical skill and physicality which is based off your ability to augment yourself in the Force. It's possible that Malgus was just more powerful then Galen at the time of his victories over characters like Zallow and Satele. Or maybe Rahm and Kazdan were simple more powerful/skilled to a high enough degree that they were just overall better lightsaber combatants then the opponents Malgus bested.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Cancer spreads on its own, no need to repeat it

Apparently there is since you haven't seemed to have caught it yet.

Vader > Malgus, Vader put Galen through hours of daily sparring sessions until he had nearly perfected his dueling abilities. That is all before the beginning of the novel, where Galen gets more skilled and powerful throughout until his prime as a dark sider on Felucia. Unless we're suggesting Malgus is Vader tier in skill, then we should probably stop with that line of thought.

Originally posted by Selenial
Genuinely thought it was DMB when I read the post.

How far you've fallen, Syndicate
You've become quite the ***** in the fast few months Sel

Originally posted by Emperordmb
You've become quite the ***** in the fast few months Sel

> implying i wasn't always a total *****

Originally posted by AncientPower
Vader > Malgus, Vader put Galen through hours of daily sparring sessions until he had nearly perfected his dueling abilities. That is all before the beginning of the novel, where Galen gets more skilled and powerful throughout until his prime as a dark sider on Felucia. Unless we're suggesting Malgus is Vader tier in skill, then we should probably stop with that line of thought. Lol Marek was not nearly in his prime by Felucia, and being taught by Vader does not make him remotely Vader-tier in skill, not when Vader was holding back, every time.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Kek, he was never that high to begin with.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol Marek was not nearly in his prime by Felucia, and being taught by Vader does not make him remotely Vader-tier in skill, not when Vader was holding back, every time.

Please explain how anything he did post Felucia actually increased his skill with a blade

Originally posted by Selenial
Please explain how anything he did post Felucia actually increased his skill with a blade

Sel, I believe Emp outright quoted a passage to you that stated Galen's skills had increased as of Nar Shaddaa. :/

Originally posted by Selenial
Please explain how anything he did post Felucia actually increased his skill with a blade Speaking of Selenial have you accepted Beni's CaV request?

Originally posted by Selenial
Please explain how anything he did post Felucia actually increased his skill with a blade "The troopers started firing before he had taken two paces toward them. They were dead long before he reached the door, killed by their own reflected fire. The Imperial Guard lasted barely as long, felled with four swift lightsaber strokes then shocked with lightning as he dropped backward to the ground. The apprentice' nodded, satisfied that his skills had improved since Nar Shaddaa."

Because y'know, Galen is gaining constant practical experience.

Not to mention I recently looked into the TFU timeline and the entire story takes place from 19BBY to 21BBY meaning it's a story that takes place over 2 years and with Nar Shaddaa being the midway point that would mean it's been at least a year of constantly fighting through armies of varied and powerful combatants before ultimately facing powerful enemy force users who often employed multiple forms in their fighting styles along with taking advantage of environments they were familiar with that Galen was not. It would be strange if Galen's already near perfect lightsaber skills HADN'T improved.

Yeah, the fact that Marek goes from almost losing to Shaak Ti to defeating Darth Vader should be all the proof we need he improved considerably in power and skill. But apparently not.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Nah, Galen was on a Lightside nexus empowering Shaak and weakening him and he had just fought through an army of force users who used the Force as easily as humans breathe oxygen along with their rancor mounts

Silly Syndi, you should know it's only impressive when Meetra does shit like that.

Originally posted by Trocity
Silly Syndi, you should know it's only impressive when Meetra does shit like that.

;-;

Huh...I just noticed that similar comparison lol.

Contexts? What relevance does his fight with the Shadow Guard have exactly? Those weren't Shadow Guards he was dispatching in that extract I posted. Regardless you're still wrong, as he dispatches three further "Sith assassins" after that, all with his lightsaber.

Finally AP was referring to his prime in general, as was I. Which doesn't leave you with much of an argument left.
Do you read Sel? Because you've failed to do so twice now.

But yeah, suggesting Shaak Ti is on level with Vader in power and skill is cancer.

Sel, the quote you just posted comes from the Nar Shaddaa mission not Kashyyyk. I'm reading the passage right now. And the quote you posted states that Galen can't draw on the full power of the Darkside while Kota was present. The quote that Galen's skills improved is also from then Nar Shaddaa mission. As Beni mention Galen faces numerous Shadow Guards up to his final mission on the Death Star and as far as I know a Shadow Guard is not limited by either Palpatine or Vader in how technically skilled with their chosen weapon they can become, only in applicable power. And we know that the maximum Shadow Guard limit in regards to applicable force power is at least being able to challenge Nar Shaddaa Galen Marek in a force lock ( though ultimately losing ). This would set a pretty high bar for these Shadow Guards wouldn't you agree? Perhaps not on the level of the masters Galen was facing at the beginning of TFU but certainly enough to hone and improve his skills.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Contexts? What relevance does his fight with the Shadow Guard have exactly? Those weren't Shadow Guards he was dispatching in that extract I posted. Regardless you're still wrong, as he dispatches three further "Sith assassins" after that, all with his lightsaber.
In your passage he takes out Stormtroopers with reflecting bolts, then kills a Royal Guard with ease. In the Nar Shaddaa passage, he does the same to a Shadow Guard. When he talks about his "skills increasing since Nar Shaddaa" he's referring to the Shadow Guard fight, and I was showing you that he didn't use his blade much in that engagement at all, indicating the quote is referring to skill as a whole.



Wrong, actually, she called it his "Prime as a Dark-Sider" which is almost entirely true, since by the time of the Kashyyk mission he was fighting as a Jedi.

And yes, the structure of your sentence indicates you're discussing an increase in skill. Having the word "and" in the statement "he improved considerably in power and skill." means you're saying "he improved considerably in skill." and "he improved considerably in power". Hence you're using incredibly circular logic for half of your statement

Originally posted by Syndicate
Sel, the quote you just posted comes from the Nar Shaddaa mission not Kashyyyk. I'm reading the passage right now. And the quote you posted states that Galen can't draw on the full power of the Darkside while Kota was present. The quote that Galen's skills improved is also from then Nar Shaddaa mission. As Beni mention Galen faces numerous Shadow Guards up to his final mission on the Death Star and as far as I know a Shadow Guard is not limited by either Palpatine or Vader in how technically skilled with their chosen weapon they can become, only in applicable power. And we know that the maximum Shadow Guard limit in regards to applicable force power is at least being able to challenge Nar Shaddaa Galen Marek in a force lock ( though ultimately losing ). This would set a pretty high bar for these Shadow Guards wouldn't you agree? Perhaps not on the level of the masters Galen was facing at the beginning of TFU but certainly enough to hone and improve his skills.

... Wrong.

I posted the excerpt from the Nar Shaddaa mission, yes, because that's what the "increase in skill" excerpt is talking about. Hence it is relevant.

Furthermore, the text states he can draw on the full power of the Dark side because Kota isn't present.

And no, Galen literally comments on how pathetically weak the Shadow guard was, and how easily he overpowered him with Lightning.

And if he's killing them in four strikes, no, it's not enough to hone or improve his skills.

Originally posted by Selenial
... Wrong.

I posted the excerpt from the Nar Shaddaa mission, yes, because that's what the "increase in skill" excerpt is talking about. Hence it is relevant.

Furthermore, the text states he can draw on the full power of the Dark side because Kota isn't present.

And no, Galen literally comments on how pathetically weak the Shadow guard was, and how easily he overpowered him with Lightning.

And if he's killing them in four strikes, no, it's not enough to hone or improve his skills.

What's incorrect?

Did you just edit that? I could have sworn you wrote "Kashyyyk" rather then Nar Shaddaa in your last post.

The increase in skill is not in reference to his fight with the Shadow Guard but his handling of the Imperial forces on Nar Shadaa, specifically his ability to dodge through and block blaster fire from a large force ( I.E. his reflexes ).

Yes, but before when he's dueling the Shadow Guard he cannot. We see later on Galen dueling against a Shadow Guard who is even more proficient then the last without trouble because he is able to draw upon that power.

He comments that the Shadow Guard is weaker then one who wears Sith clothing and uses Sith weaponry should be and the is able to overpower him, yes. Then we learn that the SG he just overwhelmed is not even the most proficient of those sent on the mission. It's likely single SG's sent to defend installations like Raxus Prime are on an even higher level. And managing to engage Galen in a force lock for even a brief amount of time is extremely impressive. My point is not to say the SG's are comparable, just powerful enough that Galen is able to hone and improve his skills by facing them.

Where does it say Galen killed the SG's in 4 strikes?

Also in regards to your argument about Juno not allowing PROXY and Galen to duel on the RS, that's blatantly contradicted by the novel.

"The clash and crackle of lightsabers filled her earpiece. She turned the volume down so as not to disturb Kota's sleep. This wasn't the first time she had witnessed a duel between Starkiller and his training droid. They had fought like dervishes during the first days after fleeing the Empirical, the droid obviously helping him let off steam. But for those releases, she wondered if the pres sure cooker of his mind would steadily build up stresses until he exploded.

She hadn't learned, however, to relax during them. Starkiller never lost-which was lucky, because PROXY spoke with disarming openness of his intention to kill his master should he ever find a chink in his armor. What life would be like after such a fatal mishap, she didn't like to think, so for now she tolerated the occasional practice sessions, even if she couldn't enjoy them." - The Force Unleashed.

Originally posted by Selenial
In your passage he takes out Stormtroopers with reflecting bolts, then kills a Royal Guard with ease. In the Nar Shaddaa passage, he does the same to a Shadow Guard. When he talks about his "skills increasing since Nar Shaddaa" he's referring to the Shadow Guard fight, and I was showing you that he didn't use his blade much in that engagement at all, indicating the quote is referring to skill as a whole.Consider glasses Sel, I just explained to you that he fought three more Shadow Guard besides that in lightsaber combat.It's not actually, Galen fought with the dark side all the way up until his fight with Vader, only at that point letting go of his hate.I am but not exclusively. And on the basis that I was you've assumed I'm suggesting Galen was far from his prime in bladework, and not just as an overall combatant. Which no does not mean his increments were proportional.

Regardless does it really matter whether it was Galen's increase in technical skill or physical augmentation that allowed him to defeat Vader in a duel?

The very act of defeating Vader places him above his Felucia incarnation as a duelist.

Edit: Wait a minute... That's Sel's argument? That Galen didn't improve either in the Force or technical skill and that Shaak > Vader? Holy f*ck my weewee just grew multiple cancer warts.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Edit: Wait a minute... That's Sel's argument? That Galen didn't improve either in the Force or technical skill and that Shaak > Vader? Holy f*ck my weewee just grew multiple cancer warts.

https://media.giphy.com/media/ADr35Z4TvATIc/giphy.gif

Yeh.... I'm just not even going to reply to you anymore

What are you trying to argue then? I'm legitimately curious.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Consider glasses Sel, I just explained to you that he fought three more Shadow Guard besides that in lightsaber combat.

I genuinely can't be ****ed to get the novel out again knowing I'll have this debate with DMB in a day or two, but from my memory the only time the Shadow Guards were even close to him with a blade was the second, who held his own against Starkiller due to his reach and ability to mingle TK in with his dueling.

While this was the strongest of the Shadow Guards, who ambushed him. It's far more comparable to the situation against the first guard, who Galen was put up against in exactly the same way.

But even still, like I said, if this quote refers to Bladework only (which I still disagree with) we have no way of knowing what areas exactly of his skill are improving. Can you honestly prove it's not just his ability to maneuver around the Lightsaber Pike? Could you prove it's nothing to do with his own ability to integrate Force Powers, like the Lightning he used?



*shrug*

Debatable, but I'm not defending AP here. She can reply to you herself.



So to clarify, you don't think Galen improved dramatically as a duelist? Your wording is confusing, speaking truthfully.

Also I just looked through the chapter. I see where the mixup occurred. You were referring to the quote that his skills grew on Kashyyyk and were somehow attempting to refer it back to Nar Shaddaa. I thought you were referring to the quote with Galen's power growth that is present in the Nar Shaddaa section of the book. My apologies. I am curious why the Kashyyyk quotes has to do with anything that occured on Nar Shadda though.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Also I just looked through the chapter. I see where the mixup occurred. You were referring to the quote that his skills grew on Kashyyyk and were somehow attempting to refer it back to Nar Shaddaa. I thought you were referring to the quote with Galen's power growth that is present in the Nar Shaddaa section of the book. My apologies. I am curious why the Kashyyyk quotes has to do with anything that occured on Nar Shadda.

Because the Kashyyk quote directly says "Since Nar Shaddaa" so if you can evaluate what areas of his skills have changed since Nar Shaddaa, you can evaluate where he improved.

Originally posted by Selenial
Because the Kashyyk quote directly says "Since Nar Shaddaa" so if you can evaluate what areas of his skills have changed since Nar Shaddaa, you can evaluate where he improved.

Ah, fair enough.

Well then throwing away the rest of my responses which were out of context ( aside from the other Shadow Guards being good benchmarks for Galen to hone and improve his skill of course ).

Juno not allowing PROXY and Galen to duel on the Shadow post Nar Shaddaa is contradicted by the novel.

"The clash and crackle of lightsabers filled her earpiece. She turned the volume down so as not to disturb Kota's sleep. This wasn't the first time she had witnessed a duel between Starkiller and his training droid. They had fought like dervishes during the first days after fleeing the Empirical, the droid obviously helping him let off steam. But for those releases, she wondered if the pres sure cooker of his mind would steadily build up stresses until he exploded.

She hadn't learned, however, to relax during them. Starkiller never lost-which was lucky, because PROXY spoke with disarming openness of his intention to kill his master should he ever find a chink in his armor. What life would be like after such a fatal mishap, she didn't like to think, so for now she tolerated the occasional practice sessions, even if she couldn't enjoy them." - The Force Unleashed.

Originally posted by Selenial
I genuinely can't be ****ed to get the novel out again knowing I'll have this debate with DMB in a day or two, but from my memory the only time the Shadow Guards were even close to him with a blade was the second, who held his own against Starkiller due to his reach and ability to mingle TK in with his dueling.

While this was the strongest of the Shadow Guards, who ambushed him. It's far more comparable to the situation against the first guard, who Galen was put up against in exactly the same way.

But even still, like I said, if this quote refers to Bladework only (which I still disagree with) we have no way of knowing what areas exactly of his skill are improving. Can you honestly prove it's not just his ability to maneuver around the Lightsaber Pike? Could you prove it's nothing to do with his own ability to integrate Force Powers, like the Lightning he used?Except I don't need to, only that its not excluding saber skill, which is pretty obvious. Nor were the Imperial guards using the same kinds of weapons so its clearly not specific.
I don't believe he improved "dramatically" in anything lol. But some considerable improvement as an overall combatant is clear, mostly in power but evidently skill as well.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Except I don't need to, only that its not excluding saber skill, which is pretty obvious. Nor were the Imperial guards using the same kinds of weapons so its clearly not specific.
I don't believe he improved "dramatically" in anything lol. But some considerable improvement as an overall combatant is clear, mostly in power but evidently skill as well.

Define dramatically.

Because I'd define Dooku level to Vader level as pretty dramatic, yet I'd be roasted alive for saying Shaak = Dooku.

Dooku and Vader are probably on the same level as duelists, tbh.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Dooku and Vader are probably on the same level as duelists, tbh.

Close, imho, but Beni was talking all round.

Originally posted by Selenial
Close, imho, but Beni was talking all round.
Say no more.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/ee7995b1260c896fa50c496f056ab6f7/tumblr_mwdi8cMiWJ1shhb9so1_250.gif

lmao

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Say no more.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/ee7995b1260c896fa50c496f056ab6f7/tumblr_mwdi8cMiWJ1shhb9so1_250.gif

How is that response even relevant when he's just referring to Beni talking about the way in which they're comparing Dooku and Vader? :/

Like, I mean, it's not even about being overly sensitive just confusion about an out of context and nonsensical response.

Galen wasn't really challanged at all between his duel with Shaak and Vader. He fought only fodder, Proxy and Maris. Fodder is fodder, Maris he stomped, and Proxy was only a challange because he was still weak from redirecting the SD, and he was holding back.

I don't see how that's even comparable to being all but stalemated by Kota and the rigorous training Vader gave him.
Vader might've held back, but he also pushed Galen to his absolute limits. Sparring sessions lasted until Galen passed out from exhaustion.

Obviously Galen was really near to his prime, as far as skill goes, against Shaak.

Originally posted by Selenial
Define dramatically.

Because I'd define Dooku level to Vader level as pretty dramatic, yet I'd be roasted alive for saying Shaak = Dooku. Fair point actually, it probably was dramatic, at least in the Force.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Galen wasn't really challanged at all between his duel with Shaak and Vader. He fought only fodder, Proxy and Maris. Fodder is fodder, Maris he stomped, and Proxy was only a challange because he was still weak from redirecting the SD, and he was holding back.

I don't see how that's even comparable to being all but stalemated by Kota and the rigorous training Vader gave him.
Vader might've held back, but he also pushed Galen to his absolute limits. Sparring sessions lasted until Galen passed out from exhaustion.

Obviously Galen was really near to his prime, as far as skill goes, against Shaak.

Sure but it's likely he would've improved technically by some margin as he faces varied opponents with different fighting styles, techniques and capabilities over the next year whether it be Shadow Guards or opponents like Chop'aa.

If his skills improved just from fighting some Shadow Guards then yeah, we can expect his increments in saber skills to fairly decent.

EDIT: More to the point though, Felucia is, again, not nearly his prime.

Regardless if Galen was already a near perfect lightsaber combatant it makes sense that the vast majority of his improvement would occur in regards to Force ability rather then technical skill.

Beni who do you think wins this fight

Originally posted by Syndicate
Regardless if Galen was already a near perfect lightsaber combatant it makes sense that the vast majority of his improvement would occur in regards to Force ability rather then technical skill. Probably.

Anyway Joker, probably Ti by a hair.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Dooku and Vader are probably on the same level as duelists, tbh.

I was under the impression Vader wasn't necessarily more skilled than Dooku to begin with. Yeah this probably makes sense though

I think Vader's better, when he's not jobbing. He certainly doesn't have any more than a marginal edge on big D, though.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol Marek was not nearly in his prime by Felucia, and being taught by Vader does not make him remotely Vader-tier in skill, not when Vader was holding back, every time.

Can you read? In his prime as a dark sider, I.E. before Vader guts him and he turns light side.

Beni believes Galen used the Darkside up to the Death Star mission. I believe that's where the misunderstanding originates from.

He uses it as a crutch when Kota isn't around, but his mindset has clearly changed since the betrayal.

Shaak.

If Galen was still using lightning wouldn't he still be using the darkside?

Starkiller uses lightning but I don't believe he's drawing on the Darkside. Galen upon completely embracing the Lightside still uses lightning to incapacitate Vader and force lock Sidious.

Kyle Katarn uses lightning, and he's a lightsider.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Vader > Malgus, Vader put Galen through hours of daily sparring sessions until he had nearly perfected his dueling abilities. That is all before the beginning of the novel, where Galen gets more skilled and powerful throughout until his prime as a dark sider on Felucia. Unless we're suggesting Malgus is Vader tier in skill, then we should probably stop with that line of thought.

He lost his sparring matches with Vader due to exhaustion, and as pointed or he wasn't close to Vader at this point in time. He wasn't in his prime as of Felucia or else he would've demolished Shaak who was quite evidently struggling with him. Not sure why your bringing Vader into the equation at all when Shaak has hardly any quantifiable duels prior to Galen, other then losing to Grievous, fleeing like a coward from clones and Anakin, and beating up Magnaguards who weren't programmed for combat against a saberstaff. Aryn or Malgus would kill Galen at that point in time, and if Shaak is nearly struggling with someone who hasn't reached his prime she isn't beating someone who can Fight evenly/land blows on the Sith Empire's premiere duelist.

She gets worked

Originally posted by carthage
beating up Magnaguards who weren't programmed for combat against a saberstaff.

lmao

Originally posted by carthage
He wasn't in his prime as of Felucia or else he would've demolished Shaak who was quite evidently struggling with him.

Please show me any reason why Aryn would have difficulty beating Rahm or Kazdan in combat. Your whole argument hinges on Galen being close to Vader which Beni showed as not being the case. Troll harder

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Kyle Katarn uses lightning, and he's a lightsider.

The more apt example would be Plo Koon, he has a whole passage in "Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force" about how Lightning can be used as a Jedi with no problem, the order merely fears it due to historic applications.

Not reverse timeline scaling Felucia Galen off of a dueling feat he hasn't remotely come close to yet isn't circular logic, it's common sense.

Originally posted by carthage
Please show me any reason why Aryn would have difficulty beating Rahm or Kazdan in combat. Your whole argument hinges on Galen being close to Vader which Beni showed as not being the case. Troll harder

So you can pretend like you didn't see the post again, because you have never in your life engaged in an actual debate?

Nah, how about you make the first move. You'd be a far more entertaining execution than DMB, anyhow.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Not reverse timeline scaling Felucia Galen off of a dueling feat he hasn't remotely come close to yet isn't circular logic, it's common sense.

So it's common sense to suggest Galen went from sub Kas'im level to Vader level in under a year while not facing a single opponent who actually strained him.

Sure, common sense

Side Note: Lmao, you're still doing it. "hasn't come close to accomplishing" is completely defined on where you place Kota and Ti, and you're placing them low because you think Galen is bad. Your circular logic is literally endless.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Not reverse timeline scaling Felucia Galen off of a dueling feat he hasn't remotely come close to yet isn't circular logic, it's common sense.

"Not even close" lel.

So I guess Galen is more prodigious than Anakin and Luke?

Galen at the beginning of the game isn't even remotely Vader level, he's being stalemated by a guy Vader casually thrashed, and the Shaak Ti fight is closer in the timeline to the Kota fight than the Vader fight with the only opponent who strained them between the two being Kazdan Paratus.

Based on you trying to compare Felucia Galen's dueling prowess to Vader's, that would mean you're suggesting he went from Kota level to Vader level in even less than a year due to a fight with Kazdan Paratus where he didn't make any headway in lightsaber combat and resorted to Force spamming.

Yeah, I don't see how Galen, who nearly perfected his Lightsaber skill from a technical standpoint - would receive a monumental boost in adroitness in such a short time span.

I mean it's possible, as it is Star Wars, but that kinda growth is seen in someone that just recently started using the Force, and didn't formally train before, rather than someone that was raised to be a ultimate killing machine since his childhood.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Galen at the beginning of the game isn't even remotely Vader level, he's being stalemated by a guy Vader casually thrashed,

Vader didn't trash prime Kota tho.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
and the Shaak Ti fight is closer in the timeline to the Kota fight than the Vader fight with the only opponent who strained them between the two being Kazdan Paratus.

And Galen only fought Proxy and Maris between Ti and Vader.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Based on you trying to compare Felucia Galen's dueling prowess to Vader's, that would mean you're suggesting he went from Kota level to Vader level in even less than a year due to a fight with Kazdan Paratus where he didn't make any headway in lightsaber combat and resorted to Force spamming.

Lel, Galen oneshotted Kazdan that's why he didn't engage him in sabers. This argument strangely reminds me of the "Vader didn't ragdoll Ahsoka hence he can't" argumnet.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Vader didn't trash prime Kota tho.

And Galen only fought Proxy and Maris between Ti and Vader.

Lel, Galen oneshotted Kazdan that's why he didn't engage him in sabers. This argument strangly reminds me of the "Vader didn't ragdoll Ahsoka hence he can't" argumnet.
Sel is saying it's unlikely Galen would've improved much after the Shaak Ti fight when he clearly has improved rather drastically from the Kota fight to the Vader fight, the former of which the Shaak Ti fight is closer to with not much more practical experience between the Kota and Shaak fight than there is between the Shaak Vader fight.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Galen at the beginning of the game isn't even remotely Vader level, he's being stalemated by a guy Vader casually thrashed, and the Shaak Ti fight is closer in the timeline to the Kota fight than the Vader fight with the only opponent who strained them between the two being Kazdan Paratus.

A Kota who'd "lost his connection to the Force" and hadn't held a lightsaber in two years. A Kota who was blind and as out of practice as a Jedi possibly could be.



There's no established Timeline for TFU, so you saying the Shaak Ti fight is closer to the Kota fight than Vader is baseless, as far as I'm aware. All we know is that Shaak died at the end of 3 BBY and Galen died somewhere in 2 BBY mmm

And no, he went from being above Kota level to close to Vader level in a year. Suggesting he started off not too far from Vader isn't wild, anyway. I don't know why you have this ridiculous idea that Vader would stomp a prime force wielding Kota in a couple of Lightsaber strikes, since he couldn't even do that to Sha Koon.

Kota and Marek's duel in the comic is brief, the same in the novel. It was interrupted and a terrible gauge of Galen's power.

But you're willing to solidly define Galen from it as tiers below Vader simply because he didn't stomp a character Vader likely wouldn't in three strikes.... right.

Holy **** Sel, I'm not using circular logic. I'm not saying Galen is shit because he couldn't stomp Ti and therefore Ti is shit because of her fight with Galen.

I'm saying you can't prove Galen is on the same level of dueling ability he hasn't displayed yet. You seem to act like the burden of proof is on everyone else to prove Felucia Galen isn't a Vader level duelist when the only thing suggesting that is a feat that the incarnation of Galen in question hasn't accomplished.

I'm not saying Ti should be downscaled off of Felucia Galen who should be downscaled off of Ti, I'm simply saying Ti can't be scaled off of Vader because Felucia Galen hasn't earned such scaling off of Vader.

What's painful to read here is that you're accusing people here of logical fallacies like circular logic when you're pulling this reverse timeline scaling shit and scaling Felucia Galen off of feats he hasn't accomplished yet that take place after a notable amount of time, several missions, a stated skill increase, a stated physical increase, several stated increases force ability, and a Force alignment shift.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Holy **** Sel, I'm not using circular logic. I'm not saying Galen is shit because he couldn't stomp Ti and therefore Ti is shit because of her fight with Galen.

I'm saying you can't prove Galen is on the same level of dueling ability he hasn't displayed yet. You seem to act like the burden of proof is on everyone else to prove Felucia Galen isn't a Vader level duelist when the only thing suggesting that is a feat that the incarnation of Galen in question hasn't accomplished.

I'm not saying Ti should be downscaled off of Felucia Galen who should be downscaled off of Ti, I'm simply saying Ti can't be scaled off of Vader because Felucia Galen hasn't earned such scaling off of Vader.

What's painful to read here is that you're accusing people here of logical fallacies like circular logic when you're pulling this reverse timeline scaling shit and scaling Felucia Galen off of feats he hasn't accomplished yet that take place after a notable amount of time, several missions, a stated skill increase, a stated physical increase, several stated increases force ability, and a Force alignment shift.

Except you are. You're using the illogical conclusion that fits your wishful interpretation of events.

Let me break it down for you.

Kota, Shaak Ti and Kazdan Paratus are all unknowns as of The Force Unleashed. Their power levels are unknown. That does not make them mooks, it makes them unknowns. I'm not sure how that's difficult for you to grasp.

Your interpretation is that since Kota is unheard of, he's bad. That he's "far from Vader tier" etc. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think Kota's a Vader tier combatant, but he has insane feats and some solid hype.

Yet when everyone talks about the hype Galen has, like being a "near perfect duelist" who's "as talented with the blade as he is with The Force", the argument that he couldn't slaughter Kota comes out against him. Or that he didn't blitz Kazdan Paratus (which he did) or that he struggled against Ti so clearly wasn't prime.

Every single one of those is circular logic, you are judging Galen Marek by characters who can only be judged by their showings against Marek, or the hype that everyone is so happy to dismiss.

The only character in the entire series that you can scale from is Vader. Now to clear something up, Galen beat Vader, and then had the Force Reserves to stalemate Sidious long enough for his crew to escape. He wasn't just a match by the time of his fight on the Death Star, he was TFU Vader's better. Given how Vader is the only character in the series who's got feats outside of the game, he's the best way to scale an End Game Marek. He's also the only way to really scale the unknowns.

The fact is, Starkiller's early missions were designed to be his training. When he had killed Shaak Ti, Vader determined he was at his peak. There was no-one else left to fight who would train Starkiller more to fight The Emperor. Even if Galen had unexpected skill increases, a refinement in his ability to use the Force, etc, they were not going to be drastic.

I am not saying Galen's fight with Vader can definitively place Shaak Ti as a combatant. However, someone who is a better duelist than Felucia!Galen, who after a short period of (likely slight) improvement defeats Darth Vader, will not be below Aryn Leneer or Kas'im.

She can't be definitively placed from that feat alone, but there is certainly a ballpark area which she resides in, thanks to said feat.

And if you honestly believe that scaling her from a Marek who we scale by his defeats of two unknown characters is the best way of accurately judging her character than you're beyond hope.

Sel kind of got rekt there. RIP Shaak.

I'm not asserting that he's Vader level, I'm merely asserting that he's close. The logical power progression for a character indicates this. The overarching plot of the novel indicates this. You are the one that is trying to say that he transforms from a sub Kas'im level combatant to a Vader tier combatant in a matter of months*. That is an incredible growth that no character in the series, not even Anakin with his outrageous potential, has shown. There's nothing in the text that indicates a significant increase in power, or skill, after Felucia, which fits with the overall context of it being his final test.

Yours is the logical conclusion, and in situations of unknowns the logical conclusion must be the one accepted unless proven otherwise, and you so far have not come up with a single note from the text that actually substantiates such a significant change in Marek's being.

* Yes, months. Shaak Ti died at the end of 3 BBY. Marek faced Vader in 2 BBY. However the events of TFU II take place at the Start of 1 BBY, and by that point the Rebel fleet is in full operation, the Rebel alliance is already a significant threat, Vader has been training Starkillers for months and Kota has been captured. There is no way that there was a year between Felucia and the Death Star.



No, that's what Vader used him for after Sidious discovered him. Vader's been explored in numerous legends texts that show him around this time wanting to overthrow Palpatine.

Even if Vader was training him for being a force for the Rebels to rally behind, Vader needed him at his peak for that so as to not be killed by anything the Empire could throw at him.



Durability has no effect on dueling. It even says tougher, not stronger.

Even so, baseline physicality rarely has any effect on people in Star Wars, force application is much more important.



Felucia was two missions later. His skill increased from Nar Shaddaa to Kashyyk. Minor correction, but I guess it does show how little you know the text mmm

I've already discussed this with Beni, however.



I agree with that, I know he increased as a Force User. Not substantially however, as a lot of the feats he has performed pre-Felucia are enough to place him incredibly high as a Force Wielder, so the argument of improvement becomes irrelevant because we already know he had insane strength in The Force.



No, he's confirmed to be tougher in an area that's often irrelevant. "notably" in Skill as an overall combatant, able to blitz through fodder, and significantly in the Force, which I've never contested.

So let's put that back into his fight with Shaak Ti then.

She was considerably faster. She was considerably stronger. She bested him with The Force while already using it to dominate a Sarlacc. She was, in all likelihood, his better in Skill, if only barely.

So even if Galen's force reserves increased, he was allowed far greater speed, he got marginally more skilled as a duelist and was stronger in physicality as well... your placement of Shaak Ti level is still horrendously misjudged and disjointed, and ruins the entire progression of the novel.

Because as I've already pointed out to you.

Shaak Ti beat Felucia!Galen. End Game Galen beat TFU Vader.

So if you suggest Shaak Ti < Kas'im, then Felucia!Galen must be << Kas'im. You are also suggesting in the space of a couple months, with barely no indication in the text he increases to Vader level skill, strength and speed just "cuz".

It makes no sense, I'm sorry.

Side Note: Galen's force potential increase is talked about a lot through the Novel. It is then the best measuring stick for Galen's improvement. He talks excessively about his increase in Force Power, while some of his best feats come from earlier in the Novel. So if an increase in force power is so hammered home, and said increase wasn't even close to being as substantial as you say... why does one haphazard mention of an ambiguous increase in skill bring him from Sub Kas'im level to Vader level again?

Originally posted by Selenial
She was considerably faster. She was considerably stronger.http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/1459051223.png

Originally posted by Beniboybling
http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/1459051223.png

Sick argument, as always

Ngl, I meant was better than. But I can't edit the post, because KMC is balls.

Sometimes cancer leaves me speechless.

Aryn Leener