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Bengel is meditating on the dark side in the Forge of Tython. He senses a disturbance in the Force as his Flesh Raider guards are massacred. He rises to face their killer - Visas Marr. Who prevails?

Bengel Morr as the Hero of Tython faces him in the prologue. Visas Marr as the Exile faces her aboard the Ebon Hawk.

...Morr--- Marr--- ...eh....

mmm

Bengel wins, he was capable of subduing Orgus Din, who was supposed to be a pretty strong Jedi Master, and he gave the HoT some problems (albeit HoT was severely pre-prime), but I'd say Bengel wins.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Bengel wins, he was capable of subduing Orgus Din, who was supposed to be a pretty strong Jedi Master, and he gave the HoT some problems (albeit HoT was severely pre-prime), but I'd say Bengel wins. ..severely pre-prime is horribly understating it.

The HoT didn't even have a lightsaber for Gods sakes.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
..severely pre-prime is horribly understating it.

The HoT didn't even have a lightsaber for Gods sakes.

Still, he did manage to subdue Din, and he gave the HoT problems, and even at this point the HoT was considered a prodigy.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
..severely pre-prime is horribly understating it.

The HoT didn't even have a lightsaber for Gods sakes.

Neither did the Exile when she kicked Visas' ass tbh.

Visas is a considerably powerful Force wielder in her own right. She could actually be around Kenobi's level in Force Power, considering that she was able to sense the Exile from across the galaxy with seemingly greater precision than Nihilus himself, destroy hordes of Sith with Lightning, as well as being able to actually cut off Nihilus from the Ravager. There's also her healing people from crippling injuries in moments and her being second only to Nihilus in terms of dark side mastery among his Sith subjects, and this was before she grew more powerful under the Exile's tutelage. Just food for thought, but in the restored version of KotOR II, she also incapacitates the entirety of the Exile's party before she fights the Exile, again occurring before she grew more powerful under the Exile's companionship.

True, her ability to sense Surik and cut Nihilus from the Ravager are under special circumstances though. Her talents as a Miraluka allow her to have better abilitiy to sense people, and her severing Nihilus from the Ravager is due to her strong Force bond with him. Her incapacitating Surik's crew is very impressive though.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Neither did the Exile when she kicked Visas' ass tbh. She didn't have a saber when she fought Marr?

Visas' saber is one of the components you need to build one iirc.

The Pilgrims gave Din to Morr, for the billionth time. Marr shits all over him.

Bengel Morr was the sole-survivor of the Sacking of Coruscant event from the Jedi Temple. Let that sink in.

Yeah, you have a source for that, or you just making it up?

He was infact a survivor, that's why he turned to the dark side. Marr still rips him a new one.

The KotOR Campaign Guide states that the Exile and Visas "cross lightsabers", which would indicate that the Exile already had a lightsaber by that point.

This is Visas as she fights the Exile, as the OP states, so we're not accounting for any growth she has afterwards.

Morr wasn't the sole survivor, Kellian Jarro and Corin Tok were also survivors of the Sack. But they were legendary Jedi in their own rights, Jarro wiped out over a hundred elite Mandalorions solo and after the battle Tok would be considered invincible based on his performance and impenetrable armor.

So its not like Morr was in poor company.

Probably Morr.

Originally posted by SunRazer
The KotOR Campaign Guide states that the Exile and Visas "cross lightsabers", which would indicate that the Exile already had a lightsaber by that point.

This is Visas as she fights the Exile, as the OP states, so we're not accounting for any growth she has afterwards.

To be fair, The Exile also made her beat Visas while unarmed. However she was still recovering from near death, so I doubt she's much stronger afterwards.

*Traya made her.

Oops.

@Sel - True. I mean, the KotORCG states that Visas was "summarily beaten", which suggests a very short fight.

And whilst Visas probably didn't increase much by the time of the sparring, the Exile likely would've. Not too sure how that scaling works.

True, I was merely suggesting the ambiguity of how she lost to the Exile is ruined by a later scene, though I don't think it's necessarily a reason to shit on Visas but a reason to respect The Exile more. mmm

Her credentials as shadow hand should still give her the win here. Or her survival of Nihilus' destruction of Katarr.

Her survival thing is even more ambiguous than her loss to the Exile. Not seeing it as a point for her against Bengel Morr.

Stunning two of the Exile's party members like Bastila did in K1, and incapacitating the rest of them (through unknown means, but it's probably through the Force) is really good, though. And if she could blind the Exile, she can do something to that effect against Morr.