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Everyone is in their primes, who wins?

Unless Kun pulls sorcery out of his ass, team one wins.

I disagree. Droma is comparable to these two and Kun is a tier up. Team 2 with some difficulty

Kun and Droma wreck face. Kun could just one-shot Kenobi like he did Aleema.

lmao

Kun one-shots.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Unless Kun pulls sorcery out of his ass, team one wins.

This. Team 1 consists of superior swordsmen who possess greater synergy in team combat than their opponents; on top of that, they also have the most powerful fighter on the field.

However, the nature Sith Sorcery makes this difficult to call. While I don't think Exar Kun could overwhelm Anakin conventionally with the Force, the capabilities of Sith Sorcery are vague and unclear; it could hypothetically either be barely relevant or completely game changing, and I don't think we know enough about it to say for sure which is more likely. It certainly made short work of Luke, but that could stake on the fact that he was facing the cooperative efforts of two opponents, or it could be a result of the gaps in his training, it's difficult to say if Anakin would end up in the same boat or not.

Team two.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
This. Team 1 consists of superior swordsmen who possess greater synergy in team combat than their opponents; on top of that, they also have the most powerful fighter on the field.

However, the nature Sith Sorcery makes this difficult to call. While I don't think Exar Kun could overwhelm Anakin conventionally with the Force, the capabilities of Sith Sorcery are vague and unclear; it could hypothetically either be barely relevant or completely game changing, and I don't think we know enough about it to say for sure which is more likely. It certainly made short work of Luke, but that could stake on the fact that he was facing the cooperative efforts of two opponents, or it could be a result of the gaps in his training, it's difficult to say if Anakin would end up in the same boat or not.

Utter cancer. As per usual. Kun still one-shots both at the same time.

When do Obi-wan and Anakin demonstrate great synergy?

In their primes and against Dooku

The entirety of RotS?

TCW novels?

The fact that their so in synch with one another due to countless hours of sparring?

Kun and Ulic will be so baffled by their synergy they'll probably trip over a grave or somethin.

It's probably doesn't take much to have better synergy than a team who has never fought together before, at any rate.

And only Zannah's allowed to trip on graves, just like only Vader's allowed to trip on arms. Exar and Ulic will just have to find their own thing to trip on. uhuh

Kun solos

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Kun and Ulic will be so baffled by their synergy they'll probably trip over a grave or somethin.

You wish to do battle, britboy?

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
In their primes and against Dooku

The entirety of RotS?

TCW novels?

The fact that their so in synch with one another due to countless hours of sparring?

Like I said in the other thread, in literally no duel do they synergise well with each other. I mean, seriously, Rots? The fight where they only win after Obi-Wan gets taken out? Dooku easily handles them when they try fighting together and is easily able to separate them and then floor Anakin and own Obi-Wan the second he re-engages. At one point Dooku forces Obi-Wans lightsaber up so he can block Anakin's at the same time.

When fighting together they always underperform. Against Ventress, Savage and Dooku, it's pretty dang consistent.


Kun and Ulic would do a better job just by dual-amulet spamming. At least that would compliment each other. Not that Kun couldn't just ragdoll Kenobi instantly.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
You wish to do battle, britboy? In the bedroom, yeah, but that's not appropriate right now Fated.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
In the bedroom, yeah, but that's not appropriate right now Fated.

OMFG.

https://vultureofcritique.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/nopegiphy.gif

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Kun and Ulic will be so baffled by their synergy they'll probably trip over a grave or somethin.
Lmao

Anyway, just to bring up some things I noticed...


Originally posted by NewGuy01
This. Team 1 consists of superior swordsmen who possess greater synergy in team combat than their opponents; on top of that, they also have the most powerful fighter on the field.

Anakin isn't more powerful than Exar Kun. As a Force User Kun clearly outstrips Skywalker and Anakin isn't greater than him as a swordsman. Kun can easily match up with him in terms of strength, he's every bit as skilled and his weapon gives him a nice advantage.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
However, the nature Sith Sorcery makes this difficult to call. While I don't think Exar Kun could overwhelm Anakin conventionally with the Force,

Not even with amulet blasts?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
the capabilities of Sith Sorcery are vague and unclear; it could hypothetically either be barely relevant or completely game changing, and I don't think we know enough about it to say for sure which is more likely. It certainly made short work of Luke, but that could stake on the fact that he was facing the cooperative efforts of two opponents, or it could be a result of the gaps in his training, it's difficult to say if Anakin would end up in the same boat or not.

Well....

A) There are two people on Kun's team, so working with Ulic who's a more advanced Force user than Kyp was and possesses a powerful amulet, he could probably pull off the same move against Kenobi and Skywalker.

B) I doubt Anakin is a more advanced force user than DE Luke or knows more counters to Sith sorcery, which he's never displayed, personally.

I don't really have the drive at the moment to rehash the deal regarding Anakin's ability with you, but I will make some notes on your notes.



Maybe, given that the duo is given an opportunity to do so. The only issue is that, in life, we've never seen these two fight in this way. Because of that, we don't know what they're capable of. Even if we did know, the question "would they rely on powers here that they historically haven't?" would still remain.



I beg to differ. Sure, through his innate talent, Luke managed to go a long way with minimal training. However, that doesn't change the fact that he had minimal training; this wouldn't be the first time that pre-NJO Luke has fallen short of what other fighters of his caliber would be able to do because of the gaps in his knowledge. This isn't a secret, either. JA Luke repeatedly confesses that Obi-Wan and Yoda were the masters, and that he was struggling to live up to them.

Anakin and Kenobi, on the other hand, were trained rather rigorously for over a decade as the star pupils of the Jedi Order. A Jedi Order that, per the RotS novel, was in part still training to fight the previous wars against the Sith. It would surprise me if they didn't have some form of defense against the dark arts class, but alas we never see them go up against a Sith sorcerer in either of their careers, so it's obviously impossible to say how they'd handle that kind of situation. At the very least, I expect they should logically be better prepared than Luke was.

And, as I said, we don't really know what that situation is either; the applications and limits of ancient Sith magic are mostly a mystery to us. Hence why Exar Kun and the other ancient Sith are difficult combatants to deal with, IMO.

Given that Obi wan and Anakin are barely able to resist force chokes and neither have defended against lightning I imagine their defence against the dark arts won't be holding them in good stead against sith lore, they almost certainly won't be familiar with.

And btw, kun still one shots, he'd do so in the flesh and he'd do so as a powerless spirit.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Like I said in the other thread, in literally no duel do they synergise well with each other. I mean, seriously, Rots? The fight where they only win after Obi-Wan gets taken out? Dooku easily handles them when they try fighting together and is easily able to separate them and then floor Anakin and own Obi-Wan the second he re-engages.


Not sure any of this will be an issue here though where it will probably be more like 2 1v1's than a 2on1 or 2on2 thing, if you get my meaning.

Nevermind sorcery, what's stopping Kun from just closing their windpipes?

The Legendary Defence against the Dark Arts of the PT era Jedi

Red herring. Also, Kenobi has defended against lightning on-screen. Have you even watched Star Wars?

Anakin has also defended against Dooku's Lightning in TCW.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Red herring.

I don't even think you know what that term means, given that it's almost certainly relevant to what we're talking about. A red herring is a longstanding presumption of the tradition of logic, that several major informal fallacies essentially involve failure of topical appropriateness or relevance. You want Anakin and Obi-wan to be the champions of the dark arts You're going to have to give me a little more than :

But we don't know what would happen!?!?

- NewGuy01

Given that they can't even deflect the most rudimentary dark-side attacks (or Force attacks in general), then the logical thought that comes after that premise, is that they won't be doing so to ancient sith Sorcery. It doesn't matter wither way, because Kun can just choke them out:

"Even joined together, you are too weak to fight me!" the shadowy man said.

Streen felt his throat constrict, his windpipe close. He choked, unable to breathe. The black silhouette turned, staring at those who resisted him. The Jedi trainees grasped their throats, straining to breathe, their faces darkening with the effort. Kun's shadow expanded, growing darker and more powerful.

- Jedi Academy




Red Herring.

I very much doubt that Anakin or Kenobi have defenses against Sith sorcery when even Bane with all his knowledge of the dark side came up empty. On the other hand I'm seeing no evidence to suggest either Kun or Ulic are proficient in using sorcery in-combat.

On the other hand the idea that Kun would be strong enough to Force choke them to death when he couldn't even dominate Ulic is somewhat ludicrous. Evidently it is those Jedi trainees who are inept when it comes to defending against telekinesis.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Given that they can't even deflect the most rudimentary dark-side attacks (or Force attacks in general), then the logical thought that comes after that premise, is that they won't be doing so to ancient sith Sorcery.

That would a completely logical argument if Kenobi and Anakin actually didn't know how to defend against telekinetic attacks, but that's not the case.

>Near masters of Luke's teachings, including defensive applications.
>Inept at defending themselves, despite being melded and prepared in an ambush.

Top notch idiocy from Beni, more at 11.

I mean it is either that or the fact that he didn't even attempt to attack Ulic with the Force, nor was Exar Kun even near his prime at this point.

But please continue suggesting Kun can't use tendrils, blasts and drain in combat despite him using them all in combat.

It appears I've touched a nerve.

If pretending you're relevant to anyone's emotional state is all you have, ignoring this painfully obvious bait thread clearly designed for me, then I'd suggest going over to 9GAG.

Oh my, you really do have an inflated opinion of yourself.

On the other hand if this is a bait thread, it appears to have worked. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/2570579909.png

Ap, two quick questions, does Ulic's use the same Amulet Lucien dray used to deflect turbo-lasers?

Does Ulic's amulat make him invunrable to attacks?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
On the other hand the idea that Kun would be strong enough to Force choke them to death when he couldn't even dominate Ulic is somewhat ludicrous. Evidently it is those Jedi trainees who are inept when it comes to defending against telekinesis.

Uh, why is that ludicrous? Ulic was incredibly powerful in his own right and had an amulet that countered Kun's own. Ulic powered through Ommin's attack and Ommin is way above Kenobi at least with the Force. Ulic was the most powerful Jedi alive apart from Kun, above Nomi who freaking wrecked a mega-amped Aleema.

Also, that was Kun pre-prime. It's like me saying that since Anakin couldn't block Ventress or Barriss' TK, obviously Kun can pwn him. I doubt you'd agree.

This coming from the man who molds himself as the authority of the swtor forums. But if pretense is all you can muster in this veiled attempt at saving face, despite that being lost eons ago, my you really have fallen far.

If 'worked' is your idea of losing an argument to one rebuttal, then it worked splendidly.

Also, I'm pretty sure Ulic is using an amulet that makes him passively invulnerable.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Ap, two quick questions, does Ulic's use the same Amulet Lucien dray used to deflect turbo-lasers?

Does Ulic's amulat make him invunrable to attacks?

No, the amulet found by Lucien Draay is that of Ludo Kressh's son.

Proof that Ulic wasn't using said amulet?

It would make sense given the Nadd/Kun and Kresh/Droma parallel.

In what way is Nadd related to Ludo Kressh? The amulet (the Guantlet of Kressh the Younger) Lucien finds, was indeed discovered well after Ulic's death by the Jedi Covenant.

Originally posted by AncientPower
This coming from the man who molds himself as the authority of the swtor forums. But if pretense is all you can muster in this veiled attempt at saving face, despite that being lost eons ago, my you really have fallen far.

If 'worked' is your idea of losing an argument to one rebuttal, then it worked splendidly. Please AP I made this thread for sensible discussion, don't bring your personal butthurt into it.

As if you haven't already admitted to stalking me constantly in some vain, laughable attempt at destroying my image. But I guess trying to replicate an actual debater, I.E. Ant, is all you are good for these days.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Uh, why is that ludicrous? Ulic was incredibly powerful in his own right and had an amulet that countered Kun's own. Ulic powered through Ommin's attack and Ommin is way above Kenobi at least with the Force. Ulic was the most powerful Jedi alive apart from Kun, above Nomi who freaking wrecked a mega-amped Aleema.
Evidence it protected him from Kun's amulet? Not that that is Kun's only power.

Regardless Anakin just happens to be incredibly powerful as well, frankly more powerful than Ulic, and Kenobi is of prodigious strength in his own right, so yes, the idea that Kun could choke them both out because he almost did to Luke's trainees is ludicrous.

As for King Ommin >>> Kenobi, I find that highly doubtful.No it's not his prime, but unlike Anakin he didn't undergo a "vast" increment in power after that event, he acquired the Dark Holocron which made him "even stronger" but that's about it, most of Kun's mastery over the dark side was achieved before this duel - he's relatively close to his peak.

People making out it's normal for Anakin to get choked or something, when even someone of Count Dooku's level couldn't choke him without the help of multiple magnaguards beating on him and still leaving the Count looking exhausted after

Which was before his prime too, as if Dooku could have done shit to him in RotS.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Evidence it protected him from Kun's amulet? Not that that is Kun's only power.

Regardless Anakin just happens to be incredibly powerful as well, frankly more powerful than Ulic, and Kenobi is of prodigious strength in his own right, so yes, the idea that Kun could choke them both out because he almost did to Luke's trainees is ludicrous.

As for King Ommin >>> Kenobi, I find that highly doubtful.No it's not his prime, but unlike Anakin he didn't undergo a "vast" increment in power after that event, he acquired the Dark Holocron which made him "even stronger" but that's about it, most of Kun's mastery over the dark side was achieved before this duel - he's relatively close to his peak.

Trainees who in a less powerful state could cause hurricane strength winds that turned multiple TIE fighters into molten slag, have crushed AT-STs, thrown large boulders at mid-flight TIE Fighters and more. But nah, we'll conveniently ignore that.

He's described as achieving 'extreme' and 'enormous' powers in the years following the duel, Beni. Educate yourself before you speak. Oh and that holocron happens to be the most powerful Sith holocron in the mythos, but nevermind that little fact.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Evidence it protected him from Kun's amulet? Not that that is Kun's only power.

Regardless Anakin just happens to be incredibly powerful as well, frankly more powerful than Ulic, and Kenobi is of prodigious strength in his own right, so yes, the idea that Kun could choke them both out because he almost did to Luke's trainees is ludicrous.

As for King Ommin >>> Kenobi, I find that highly doubtful.

During the duel their amulets began responding to each other and merging their powers. They obviously couldn't use them offensively against each other.

Even if he couldn't choke both of them, he could certainly one-shot Kenobi and probably could choke out Anakin.

Lol, Ommin pwned a squad of Jedi at once. These weren't noob Jedi either, Tott Doneeta could block Basilisk cannon fire and a Heat Storm powerful enough to disintegrate people. Ommin still pooped on him and a bunch of other Jedi at once. He shat on Nomi Sunrider and Arca Jeth. He's obviously far above Kenobi.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No it's not his prime, but unlike Anakin he didn't undergo a "vast" increment in power after that event, he acquired the Dark Holocron which made him "even stronger" but that's about it, most of Kun's mastery over the dark side was achieved before this duel - he's relatively close to his peak.

I'm pretty sure he had way more growth than that. He spent relatively little time mastering the dark side before he went to face Ulic, after which he had a far greater stretch growing.

Edit: And we see that AP has confirmed that I'm right. So yeah, this wasn't near his peak.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
People making out it's normal for Anakin to get choked or something, when even someone of Count Dooku's level couldn't choke him without the help of multiple magnaguards beating on him and still leaving the Count looking exhausted after

Dooku and Exar Kun can't really be compared imo. Kun is far stronger than him.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Trainees who in a less powerful state could cause hurricane strength winds that turned multiple TIE fighters into molten slag, have crushed AT-STs, thrown large boulders at mid-flight TIE Fighters and more. But nah, we'll conveniently ignore that.

He's described as achieving 'extreme' and 'enormous' powers in the years following the duel, Beni. Educate yourself before you speak. Oh and that holocron happens to be the most powerful Sith holocron in the mythos, but nevermind that little fact. Hurricane winds that turned TIE's to molten slag? Lol you'll have to cite that one.

But yeah having potent Force powers doesn't preclude being inept in defending against dark side powers, as they evidently where.

As for him achieving "extreme" "enormous" powers, you've tried to peddle that shit already, however turned out you were making it up.

"Dark side powers" like Force choke. Really advanced shit right there.

Originally posted by Nephthys
During the duel their amulets began responding to each other and merging their powers. They obviously couldn't use them offensively against each other.Yeah that assumption doesn't really follow on. Regardless we are discussing Kun's telekinetic powers here, so its largely irrelevant.Who has he one-shotted of Kenobi's caliber, and who has he choked of Anakin's? These are baseless assumptions.Fair, looking at his respect thread he seems quite impressive, though none of those Jedi can be really proven to be in Kenobi's league.
AP is chatting shit, I debunked her evidence a long time ago and she evaded my response. Why considering her past history people take her word for anything baffles me tbh. Regardless he actually spent a lot of time on Yavin 4 mastering the dark side, creating alchemic beasts, constructs, temples etc. and upon leaving was said to have "full mastery of the dark side" or some such.

All we have after that is the Dark Holocron.
The point is that nobody has demonstrated themselves strong enough to TK RotS Anakin, and I'm seeing no evidence to suggest Kun is among them. And for the record, Anakin is far stronger than Dooku as well.

Originally posted by Nephthys
"Dark side powers" like Force choke. Really advanced shit right there.

Well, considering that even Luke didn't know how to defend against it until Dark Empire, it's not exactly impossible... mmm

Even Master-level Jedi repeatedly succumb to such a basic application of the Force, and Kun was smothering them with his dark side presence simultaneously. It would frankly be more surprising if Kun's attack had no effect.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Team two.

Kun still solos.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Dooku and Exar Kun can't really be compared imo. Kun is far stronger than him.


I mean unless you think Kun's TK is on Yoda, Sidious, Vader level, then I think Anakin is relatively safe in that department.

He's a handful in Sabers and doesn't really give his opponents much opportunity for Force Chokes.

Given that the Kun vs Sidious argument has been won in the kunts favour for over a year now, I'd day he's stronger than everyone you mentioned.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yeah that assumption doesn't really follow on. Regardless we are discussing Kun's telekinetic powers here, so its largely irrelevant.

Ok.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Who has he one-shotted of Kenobi's caliber, and who has he choked of Anakin's? These are baseless assumptions.

He choked out 9 Jedi at once at once. He's far stronger than Ommin, who b*tchslapped 6 powerful Jedi at once. He casually one-shot Aleema who at her weakest was disintegrating people.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Fair, looking at his respect thread he seems quite impressive, though none of those Jedi can be really proven to be in Kenobi's league.

Well I did just point out that Tott Doneeta was able to deflect Basilisk War Droid Cannon fire and blocked a Heat Storm powerful enough to disintegrate people. Heat Storms also have a wind speed over twice that of a level 4 hurricane. Even if you don't think that's on Kenobi's level for some reason, there were like 4 other Jedi there.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
AP is chatting shit, I debunked her evidence a long time ago and she evaded my response. Why considering her past history people take her word for anything baffles me tbh. Regardless he actually spent a lot of time on Yavin 4 mastering the dark side, creating alchemic beasts, constructs, temples etc. and upon leaving was said to have "full mastery of the dark side" or some such.

All we have after that is the Dark Holocron.

I don't care, you haven't debunked it here. AP has more credibility on this topic than you do and seems to have provided evidence that debunks your claim. From what I know, Kun had years of time left to expand in.

Regardless, even if you want to suggest that Kun didn't defeat Ulic with the Force because he couldn't, that merely suggests how powerful Ulic is. Instead of lowering Kun, you should just raise Ulic. He has the feats and the hype to support his status as an immensely powerful Sith.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The point is that nobody has demonstrated themselves strong enough to TK RotS Anakin, and I'm seeing no evidence to suggest Kun is among them. And for the record, Anakin is far stronger than Dooku as well.

Uh, what? Nobody? You mean, nobody in this thread, right? I hope you don't mean nobody in general.......

Anakin isn't far stronger than Dooku in terms of force defenses, TK etc. Dooku was able to push him and Obi-Wan back at the same time without much effort. Kun is stronger than Skywalker is and has his amulet hax to draw upon.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, considering that even Luke didn't know how to defend against it until Dark Empire, it's not exactly impossible... mmm

Yeah, Luke the guy who after that taught these guys. Plus thats only when he mentioned it. Choke isn't exactly a complicated ability, force shields should do the trick.

Originally posted by Beniboybling


Even Master-level Jedi repeatedly succumb to such a basic application of the Force, and Kun was smothering them with his dark side presence simultaneously. It would frankly be more surprising if Kun's attack had no effect.

Sure, by more powerful beings. It isn't that they didn't know how to block it, they were just overwhelmed. Like the Jedi were by Kun.

Kun was smothering them with his presence at the same time? Damn, that just makes it more impressive.

When?

That bug prison.

I recall Dooku trying to push them and they literally only budged a foot - as in he failed to budge them.

Neph, can you explain to me why we should raise Ulic rather than lower Kun? You seem to think we should raise SWTOR characters in such situations but lower PT characters in similar ones.

We'd like to understand your calculus.

Technically if he budged them, he didn't fail to budge them. He did, however, fail to send them flying like Neph is trying to pass off.

Where did I say he sent them flying?

True, I take that back; that's not what you said, I just misinterpreted what you meant.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He choked out 9 Jedi at once at once. He's far stronger than Ommin, who b*tchslapped 6 powerful Jedi at once. He casually one-shot Axleema who at her weakest was disintegrating people.Where is he stated to be far stronger than Ommin, who had the power of a dark side nexus at his command?

And disintegrating someone with a Force blast doesn't appear to be comparable to doing so with standard Force abilities. I'm not that impressed.I would say that Anakin's telekinesis is rather more deadly than a hurricane, and deflecting cannon fire is nice but not all the special, and nothing Kenobi hasn't casually accomplished. So no, not remotely tbh. And 4 fodder Jedi don't make a difference.She hasn't substantiated her claims with anything and if she tries to I'll rinse and repeat, but until she does the burden of proof is on you m'dear. Well above Anakin? I'm rather apply common sense thanks.No I mean nobody in the history of the universe gosh.

And lol @ raising Anakin's pre-prime feats after using that as an example of what not to do. In RotS is Anakin demonstrating telekinetic superiority:

http://static9.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111178634/4309204-anakin+force+pushes+dooku.jpg

And being stronger doesn't necessitate the ability to ragdoll, certainly not to crippling effect.By more powerful beings yes, but often before themselves doing the overwhelming. Like Darth Maul ragdolling Kenobi after which the latter sent him packing. Or Dooku throwing around Vos before again being defeated, or Vader Force gripping Marek, the list goes on. Even if there isn't a considerable gap between yourself and your opponent, even if your capable of defeating your opponent, even highly trained Force users are susceptible to being gripped.

Given that, the fact that a group of Jedi trainees found themselves initially overwhelmed by the telekinetic might of a powerful Sith spirit (who would not be able to smother them with their presence in corporeal form) is unsurprising, when Jedi masters have failed to do better. But as the Kunts prefer to overlook, his attempt to dominate them was ultimately thwarted by Streen after which his power over them evaporated.

Pardon me everyone, but high tensions aside I do think that the point of Ob-Wan having..... much more susceptible force defenses than someone of his skill/caliber should have is worth mentioning. Also for anyone who's immediate response is to throw the burden of proof on me, I think I can honestly say in a high majority of his fights in even TCW series Obi-Wan holds his own or is even winning in a contest of lightsabers, but when the force is applied he is greatly affected.

I do think team two will pull the win with some difficulty, as both the combatants as such match-up well against Kenobi. Even if we used the more favorable match-up of of Anakin holding off Exar, it simply takes a bit longer for Ulic to take out Kenobi than it would Kun. And while admittedly an enraged Anakin would defeat Ulic, and challenge Kun, the two together more than make up enough raw power to defeat him 2v1.

Probably team one, unless Kun spams sorcery. It would be a good fight though and I don't see team 1 winning every time.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
As for him achieving "extreme" "enormous" powers, you've tried to peddle that shit already, however turned out you were making it up.

Making it up? You mean in your delusional world it isn't relevant? ****ing comical.











You tried claiming he did all of his alchemical explorations and ascension to masterhood brfore he faced Ulic, when we know he only created Massassi Abominations. He didn't create the Dark Reaper, the Golden Globe, Terentateks, Battle Hydras and all of the rest until after his conversion of the Jedi prodigies using Sith spirits in the Dark Holocron.

Stop peddling misinformation, Beni.

Nice, this evening's entertainment.

1. A general statement that proves absolutely nothing, not sure why you even brought it up. But I guess spamming quotes to cover your ass is the MO here.

2. Another general statement, made 4,000 years after Kun's death. We've no reason to assume he hadn't achieved much if not most of that "enormous" power by his duel with Ulic.

3. This quote only works against you, if you bothered to look into the contexts you'd have realised its dated prior to Kun leaving to confront Ulic, as I explained last time.

This time let me drive the point home:

http://i.imgur.com/nm5n7pp.png

Meaning he became an "extremely powerful figure", created various alchemic monsters and constructed the Golden Globe all before the aforementioned duel.

4. This refers to Ulic, not Kun. Like what?

5. This quote also refers to Ulic, you appear to be confused, or just desperate, I'm not sure. But yeah, this isn't even prime Ulic he isn't able to ragdoll, good point.Originally posted by AncientPower
You tried claiming he did all of his alchemical explorations and ascension to masterhood brfore he faced Ulic, when we know he only created Massassi Abominations.If by "claim" you mean point out what's written in your own sources then yes. Here's another of yours:
It's times like these that I wonder whether you're actually capable of reading.He didn't create the Dark Reaper, but he did about everything else. I'm sure you'll come to realise the irony of that statement very soon, if you haven't already.

So you're using mere generalisation statements regarding all of the sorcery and alchemical practices he underwent and using that to suggest he never underwent sorcery practices again. Despite the fact it flies directly in the face of the actual source material? You're always amusing Beni.

He only begins is alchemical works before facing Ulic, a basic understanding of the timeline might tell you that. Said beginnings were Massassi Abominations:



Exar Kun didn't create the Dark Reaper until after he'd fought Ulic Qel-Droma, who takes the weapon to numerous republic bases including Raxus Prime:



Nor does he bring Tuk'ata to his stronghold across the galaxy until well after:



Your failing to understand that the war took years after Ulic returned to the galaxy as a Sith Lord, and that they both increased drastically afterwards, is your's alone.

I also see that you ignore the fact Exar Kun is stated to be undisputed in his title and that not only Freedon Nadd but the sourcebooks, all unquestionably place Exar Kun as by far the most powerful individual in his time:





More interesting to me however, is that you'd prefer Exar Kun was already extremely powerful and became even more so after the fact:













I might adopt your stance actually, Exar Kun, years before his prime, was an extremely powerful figure, before obtaining the most powerful Sith holocron in the mythos, gaining immense knowledge, which made him even more powerful.

Thanks, Beni.

Damn.

If only the phrase "extremely powerful" meant anything mmm

In all seriousness, as relative a term as it may be, a very few select people have ever been afforded that high an accolade.

Damn.

Ant, keep an eye on CV, I'm sure you'll know what I refer to when you see it.

Originally posted by AncientPower
In all seriousness, as relative a term as it may be, a very few select people have ever been afforded that high an accolade.

Kyp Durron included.

Noting that the first feat was only some of Exar Kun's power compared to Kyp Durron's, as Exar Kun masked the entire fight from Master Luke Skywalker and an entire dining hall of Jedi, just fifteen meters away:



All very interesting, isn't it, Deronn?

Originally posted by AncientPower
So you're using mere generalisation statements regarding all of the sorcery and alchemical practices he underwent and using that to suggest he never underwent sorcery practices again. Despite the fact it flies directly in the face of the actual source material? You're always amusing Beni.Not quite dear, rather I'm correcting your misreading that the aforementioned quote refers to Kun's practices after rather than before his duel with Ulic, along with a host of other errors, try to keep up.And Terantateks, and battle hydras, quite.Which is not an alchemic creation but great, how wonderful for him, an evidence it granted him "extreme" "enormous powers"?And he acquired some pets too, how lovely, however considering he's already created Massassi abominations, teranteks and battle hydras, I'm failing to see how mutating a few Tukata would greatly expand his knowledge and mastery over the Force.Considering the burden of proof to demonstrate is yours, and you continue to flounder in the attempt, it's pretty clear whose failing here.

But to correct your latest error, the duel between Ulic and Kun took place in 3,997 BBY, the Sith War beginning in 3,996 BBY. Assuming your numerical skills are no better than your reading skills, that's one year later, not several.Right, your point being?
Yes wonderful, a great victory I'm sure, back on topic evidently Kun did not gain "extreme" "enormous" powers post-Ulic as he had them already. And though he grew more powerful thanks to the Dark Holocron, there's a lack of evidence it made in "drastically" more powerful.

EDIT: As an addendum to that last point, it certainly didn't appear to be the case for Dooku.

That isn't what occurred at all, but it is nice to see you are exceedingly desperate given your evident grasping at straws, very, very short straws.

He creates the Terentateks and the Battle Hydras after fighting Ulic, as the Massassi, after being turned into abominations, show him the Corsair, and he goes straight to Cinnagar afterwards. But it wouldn't be one of your posts if you actually understood context to any degree.

The Dark Reaper is an alchemical super weapon that Kun created to drain thousands of enemy troops, just like, you know, the Golden Globe. You wouldn't have heard of the Force Harvester though, that doesn't surprise me in the least.

'Flounder' is a funny term, a better anology would be describing color to a blind man.

The point being that your claim that he can't effect Ulic with the Force, despite being evidently his far superior, is folly.

So he continued to rise in power and got even stronger due to the Dark holocron... but he didn't grow drastically more powerful? Your logic is quickly collapsing in on itself.

As far as Dooku is concerned, him using the dark holocron hasn't been canon since 2009, do keep up dear:



Just for clarification, this is the 'fate' of Exar Kun's Dark holocron:

http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11111/111114474/4249203-smashes+holocron.jpg

Since when did Exar Kun create the Dark Reaper? I thought that thing had been around since Sadow's time.

He created the Dark Reaper but there are in-universe rumors that he merely uncovered it. Actual sources credit Kun with the creation of the Dark Reaper.

Originally posted by AncientPower
That isn't what occurred at all, but it is nice to see you are exceedingly desperate given your evident grasping at straws, very, very short straws.

He creates the Terentateks and the Battle Hydras after fighting Ulic, as the Massassi, after being turned into abominations, show him the Corsair, and he goes straight to Cinnagar afterwards. But it wouldn't be one of your posts if you actually understood context to any degree.The New Essential Chronology and the SWTOR codex plainly state otherwise, are you blind?
Quite aware hon, Wookieepedia is an easily accessible resource. However Sith alchemy is that which alters living beings so no, but it's irrelevant regardless; and as you say considering he invented the golden globe prior to facing Ulic (as the Essential Chronology states) he's evidently attained a level of mastery over this technique already.Even more ironic than your last accusation considering the above.
Than a Jedi, Ulic hardly qualifies as of his duel with Kun. And there is a difference between unable to effect and unable to dominate.No friend, and it's baffling that I must explain why the former doesn't necessitate the latter.So you're saying the same source that claims the Dark Holocron to be the most powerful of them all is... outdated? Well I suppose it makes little sense Kun would promptly destroy the greatest repository of dark side knowledge he had in his possession. Perhaps it wasn't so special after all. mmm.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Hurricane winds that turned TIE's to molten slag? Lol you'll have to cite that one.

If you'd paid attention recently, you need not ask:









Whilst Darksaber begins ten months to the end of Jedi Academy, there is no stated drastic increase in power for anybody besides Kyp Durron, who isn't relevant here.

Whilst logically the Knights did infact achieve some level of growth in that time, it is irrelevant in the face of the fact that when facing Exar Kun they were in a prepared state of mind and joined in meld. Said meld afforded them all powers far greater than they'd imagined themselves capable of:







Not to mention the eight other Jedi present, including Brakiss:







NOTE: Whilst all of these feats take place well after Jedi Academy, these are the only feats Brakiss possesses, as we only see him partake in the fight against Exar Kun. Though I'd point out that Brakiss is heavily amped as well as the others are.

As well as the vital presence of Vodo:



Luke Skywalker's spirit was also there in the meld:



Originally posted by Beniboybling
But yeah having potent Force powers doesn't preclude being inept in defending against dark side powers, as they evidently where.

Because Luke is just going to forget to teach them how to block it, when he shows Kam Solusar how to, all the way back in Dark Empire:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/4788431-luke+blocks+force+choke.png

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The New Essential Chronology and the SWTOR codex plainly state otherwise, are you blind?

Quite aware hon, Wookieepedia is an easily accessible resource. However Sith alchemy is that which alters living beings so no, but it's irrelevant regardless; and as you say considering he invented the golden globe prior to facing Ulic (as the Essential Chronology states) he's evidently attained a level of mastery over this technique already.

Even more ironic than your last accusation considering the above.

Than a Jedi, Ulic hardly qualifies as of his duel with Kun. And there is a difference between unable to effect and unable to dominate.

No friend, and it's baffling that I must explain why the former doesn't necessitate the latter.

So you're saying the same source that claims the Dark Holocron to be the most powerful of them all is... outdated? Well I suppose it makes little sense Kun would promptly destroy the greatest repository of dark side knowledge he had in his possession. Perhaps it wasn't so special after all. mmm.

The New Essential Chronology and the SWTOR Codex Entry are paraphrasing the events. The actual source material, if you've ever bothered to read it, show Kun leaving after ordering the construction of Massassi temples and his creation of Massassi Abominations. Then he has years after dueling Ulic Qel-Droma to continue his advancements.

The sphere of alchemy also includes the creation of amulets, Force-imbued Sith swords, and so on. But we can all ignore that for your benefit.

The only irony here, is that you are baffled by anything I've posted and not the hilarious logic that because he didn't attempt to defeat Ulic via the Force, means he can't.

Neither does Exar Kun, yet it states Kun is far more powerful than any other Jedi of his day, evidently Kun and Droma as Dark Jedi are both subject to the statement.

It is baffling that your entire argument is based on something that didn't even happen.

It is outdated in terms of Dooku having used the Dark holocron, which contains a hundred thousand years of knowledge. It calling the holocron the most powerful in the mythos, isn't subject to that discrepancy. He smashed it well after having obtained it, and as sources state, having learned many forbidden Sith secrets from it, and becoming more powerful, more quickly, due to it.