ROTS Kenobi and Mace Windu vs DE Palpatine

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Jmanghan
Obi-Wan replaces the B-Team.

Who takes this?

Trocity
Sidious annihilates.

Ziggystardust
I'm not sure about that Trocity. After-all, he didn't annihilate Mace in revenge of the sith

MythLord
Originally posted by Trocity
Sidious annihilates.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by Trocity
Sidious annihilates. Depends on how big the power gap is between ROTS and DE.

I don't see huge growth between that time tbh.

But then again that was sabers only, and Palpatine possibly threw the fight.

chingchangwalla
Obi-Wan gets one shotted.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Obi-Wan gets one shotted. Mace is only barely above Obi-Wan in sabers, anyone who says otherwise just does not know the Character.

MythLord
Nah. The Count, Mace and Annie are all noticeably superior to Obi in sabers. Obi can hang with them, but they're not "barely above" him.

Deronn_solo
Sidious, as of DE, was far more powerful than his RotJ self. His RotJ self should be a noticeable degree above his RotS version. Given he gradually drained the populace of Byss, all of the time he had to increase his power - and knowledge/artifacts he received from the Jedi Temple.

So, even if we take Mace > Palpatine at face value - we also must accept that DE Sidious is arguably in another league from his RotS counterpart.

Emperordmb
TPM Sheev would kill them.

EmperorSidious2
Sidious

Jmanghan
Originally posted by Emperordmb
TPM Sheev would kill them. TPM Sheev would lose to Mace, solidly, and Kenobi would give him a damn good fight.

chingchangwalla
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Mace is only barely above Obi-Wan in sabers, anyone who says otherwise just does not know the Character.
Mace is only a tier up in sabers, yes but still. Obi-Wan's force powers are laughable in comparison to Windu's, plus Mace will be channeling the darkside so you have two of the most powerful beings dueling and a tier 2/3 duelist with little force power. Also Getting his force wall broken by Maul on the reg is gross.
Plus, Obi-Wan is pretty much Maul's equal and you saw what Sidious did to him in TCW...

Jmanghan
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Mace is only a tier up in sabers, yes but still. Obi-Wan's force powers are laughable in comparison to Windu's, plus Mace will be channeling the darkside so you have two of the most powerful beings dueling and a tier 2/3 duelist with little force power. Also Getting his force wall broken by Maul on the reg is gross.
Plus, Obi-Wan is pretty much Maul's equal and you saw what Sidious did to him in TCW... By ROTS Kenobi is above Maul, not solidly, arguably, but yeah, he's above Maul.

Regardless, Maul isn't getting one-shotted.

chingchangwalla
It's DE Palpatine pal, he'll one shot anyone Top Tier Sith Lords and Jedi

Jmanghan
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
It's DE Palpatine pal, he'll one shot anyone Top Tier Sith Lords and Jedi Vader was 80% of Sidious' power, though I'm not sure if that quote is outdated.

chingchangwalla
Who knows how much 20% of Sidious' power is? It might be heaps... That's a very vague quote.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Jmanghan
By ROTS Kenobi is above Maul, not solidly, arguably, but yeah, he's above Maul.

Regardless, Maul isn't getting one-shotted.


Depends where Maul was at by ROTS. IIRC TCW Maul also grew in power since he last fought Kenobi.

MythLord
Originally posted by Jmanghan
TPM Sheev would lose to Mace, solidly, and Kenobi would give him a damn good fight.

Cancer. Complete, and utter cancer. You should consider An heroing.

Ziggystardust
Damn Wolf, that's pretty mean of you...

Kinda wish you extended that sabbatical of yours, lest we get stung by your harsh comments.

Ziggystardust
Also, he has a point.

chingchangwalla
Damn right. Palpatine going roughly half power against a bloodlusted Maul in TCW and ragdolling him with ease (although I will say sabers caused him some minor distress) should make it clear that DE Palpatine can one-shot Kenobi.

MythLord
I kinda wish you'd knew what sabbatical meant, tbh.

chingchangwalla
Me too lmao

Ziggystardust
Originally posted by MythLord
I kinda wish you'd knew what sabbatical meant, tbh.

I certainly think it means what I intended it to mean. Unless you have any objections?

darthbane77
Sidious wins in a massive curbstomp.

chingchangwalla
Actually Obi-Wan could win. Mace would Channel all Sidious' darkside energy, Sheev would keep putting out more and more power until he and mace both withered away smile

Jmanghan
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Actually Obi-Wan could win. Mace would Channel all Sidious' darkside energy, Sheev would keep putting out more and more power until he and mace both withered away smile Mace nor Obi-Wan is taking Palpatine alone.

Together, they could win though.

chingchangwalla
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Mace nor Obi-Wan is taking Palpatine alone.

Together, they could win though.
I was kidding. But how the **** does Obi-Wan even compare to Full darkside fuelled Mace?

Jmanghan
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
I was kidding. But how the **** does Obi-Wan even compare to Full darkside fuelled Mace? ...Vaapad isn't some Massive amp, it just means he does better against Darksiders, because of his ability to channel his own inner darkness and aggression during combat. As well as his ability to feed off his opponent's aggression.

It doesn't drain his opponents energy.

It isn't some form of Force Drain.

And he doesn't gain power over time.

chingchangwalla
No shit. So with all that power Mace has channeled from Sidious, how does Obi-Wan even compete

Jmanghan
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
No shit. So with all that power Mace has channeled from Sidious, how does Obi-Wan even compete He's not gaining power from Sidious, in gives him a slight edge in Sabers.

Obi competes because he's never been that far behind him in Sabers in the first place.

And him channeling Palpatine's aggression doesn't bump Mace that high up anyhow.

He's not that much better, he's just... better.

chingchangwalla
I give up trying to get through to you. Jesus Christ.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
I give up trying to get through to you. Jesus Christ.

What are you trying to argue?

That Mace is better then Kenobi, so by virtue, him having Vaapad puts him astronomically above Kenobi?

No, that isn't happening.

A Dark Side Kenobi would give Mace a good fight, almost as Good as Dooku would, a Lightside Kenobi could potentially beat him.

chingchangwalla
No. Even if you just go by the fact that Mace was said to only be challenged by Dooku and Yoda in sparring sessions. This should put Windu above Kenobi pretty solidly. And then we have force powers... Mace wrecks...

Jmanghan
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
No. Even if you just go by the fact that Mace was said to only be challenged by Dooku and Yoda in sparring sessions. This should put Windu above Kenobi pretty solidly. And then we have force powers... Mace wrecks... I have ROTS Kenobi above Dooku in sabers by the end of ROTS.

AOTC Kenobi was pushing Dooku.

And no, he wasn't just "challenged" by Dooku.

Dooku beat him.

chingchangwalla
well that just comes down to your personal opinion of Kenobi > Dooku.

chingchangwalla
And Vaapad doesn't just boost your saber skills chief, so stop low balling it.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by MythLord
Cancer. Complete, and utter cancer. You should consider An heroing. And maybe you should learn to finish what you start smile

Jmanghan
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
And Vaapad doesn't just boost your saber skills chief, so stop low balling it. Source for how it boosts your force abilities in any way shape, or form?

chingchangwalla
His fight with Kar Vastor...

Jmanghan
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
His fight with Kar Vastor... Can I have the quote?

Not saying I don't believe you.

chingchangwalla
I can't be ****ed, I'm going to bed now. But I think it was something like you see how fast my arms are moving Kar? This is Vaapad. Something along those lines anyway

chingchangwalla
Bolstering his already amazing augmentation.

Deronn_solo
Palpatine demolishes.

MythLord
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
I certainly think it means what I intended it to mean. Unless you have any objections?

I suppose you expressed the wish I prolongued my vacation, instead of returning to, rightfully so, call out a guy for handing out free brain tumours with his "opinions"?

And I don't think you meant it in a jocund manner, either.

Ziggystardust
Originally posted by MythLord
I suppose you expressed the wish I prolongued my vacation, instead of returning to, rightfully so, call out a guy for handing out free brain tumours with his "opinions"?

And I don't think you meant it in a jocund manner, either.

There is no need to b so mean with your words.

MythLord
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
There is no need to b so mean with your words.

Oh of course. I forgot, you're one of the hellspawn trolls from Tumblr. God forbid I hurt someone's feelings, no?

Not that it was ever my intent on harming you, dear little Ziggy. My offensive verbality was aimed towards young Jmanghanmanshan.

SunRazer
I have two questions:

1. Why on earth did you think that replacing the B-Team with a weaker character would help?

2. How on earth did this get to three pages?

Darth Thor
Originally posted by SunRazer


1. Why on earth did you think that replacing the B-Team with a weaker character would help?



Kenobi's weaker than the guys on the B-Team?

Deronn_solo
I think Nova worded is badly. He really meant that, Kenobi is a lesser combatant to the totality of the B-Team members: Fisto, Tiin, and Kolar.

Darth Thor
Well it's not like the 3 of them fought together at any point. Palpatine took them out 1 by 1.

Only Fisto fought for a few seconds alongside Windu. ROTS Kenobi would presumably be capable of fighting alongside Windu considerably longer than Fisto managed.

SunRazer
Obviously I meant Kenobi is weaker than their combined strength. My comment was pretty clear, tbh.

chingchangwalla
Kenobi isn't massively ahead of Fisto and he only blocked like 2 strikes from ROTS Palpatine. How the **** is Kenobi going to even see DE Sheev :/

Sinious
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Palpatine demolishes.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Kenobi isn't massively ahead of Fisto and he only blocked like 2 strikes from ROTS Palpatine. How the **** is Kenobi going to even see DE Sheev :/ And Windu isn't massively ahead of Kenobi. :/

chingchangwalla
Yet Mace defeated Sidious and Fisto got struck down quickly

MythLord
Vaapad.

NTJack0
Originally posted by Trocity
Sidious annihilates.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by MythLord
Vaapad.


Ah the magic word.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Kenobi isn't massively ahead of Fisto


Yes he is. Obi-Wan is a match for Maul.


Originally posted by chingchangwalla
How the **** is Kenobi going to even see DE Sheev :/


Same way Dooku sees Yoda tbh.

chingchangwalla
Yoda and Dooku and somewhat on the same level. Obi and Sheev are too? Lol

MythLord
Dooku barely fended off a holding back Yoda. DE Sidious is on a different league than a holding back Yoda :/

chingchangwalla
It's besides the point

Darth Thor
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Yoda and Dooku and somewhat on the same level. Obi and Sheev are too? Lol


That's what I said? Lol


You asked how Kenobi would even See Sheev. I suggested perhaps the same way Dooku saw Yoda.

Also you're acting as if Kenobi is facing Sheev alone here.


Originally posted by MythLord
Dooku barely fended off a holding back Yoda. DE Sidious is on a different league than a holding back Yoda :/


But Dooku could see Yoda right? And Dooku was facing Yoda Alone right?

Jeez.

chingchangwalla
I didn't mean it to be taken literally chief. Of course Kenobs will see Sheev... It means he doesn't stand a chance.

Darth Thor
^ What about After Mace has fully sunk into Vapaad. Could Kenobi be of assist then?

Deronn_solo
DT, who do you think wins this?

MythLord
Originally posted by Darth Thor
But Dooku could see Yoda right? And Dooku was facing Yoda Alone right?

Jeez.

But it's an incomparable example, which is my point.

He did see Yoda, but Kenobi would see Sidious, just not even react to the first blow.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by MythLord
But it's an incomparable example, which is my point.

He did see Yoda, but Kenobi would see Sidious, just not even react to the first blow.


Well Fisto reacted to 2/3 blows right? And he's not a Soresu Master.

Plus again, once Mace is fully submerged in Vapaad, surely Kenobi can only help right? Given Sidious will be fully occupied with Mace as is.



Originally posted by Deronn_solo
DT, who do you think wins this?


Depends if Vapaad still makes Mace Sidious's equal, even with this incarnation of Sidious..

MythLord
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well Fisto reacted to 2/3 blows right? And he's not a Soresu Master.

Plus again, once Mace is fully submerged in Vapaad, surely Kenobi can only help right? Given Sidious will be fully occupied with Mace as is.

After Palpy killed two of his compadres. I assume if Fisto was in the same position as, say, Kolar he'd die as quickly. And Fisto just strikes me as faster than Obi, even if he isn't as skilled.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by MythLord
After Palpy killed two of his compadres. I assume if Fisto was in the same position as, say, Kolar he'd die as quickly.


Well Kenobi could stand behind Mace. Wait for Mace to be fully into Vapaad before he joins in.

Besides Kenobi is better than any of those 3 and he's specifically a defensive combatant.


Originally posted by MythLord
And Fisto just strikes me as faster than Obi, even if he isn't as skilled.


Well I don't know what "strikes you" but I do know Kenobi's defence velocity was so fast that Dooku didn't even bother striking.

Doubt Fisto is that fast.

MythLord
The problem is: Mace couldn't react in time to save either Agen or Saesee and he's facing a more serious, more powerful and faster Palpatine here.

Being fair, this was while Dooku was tired, had lost his composure and underestimated Obi. There were circumstances against him in that, tbh.

Trocity
Originally posted by MythLord
The problem is: Mace couldn't react in time to save either Agen or Saesee and he's facing a more serious, more powerful and faster Palpatine here.

thumb up

Emperordmb
More serious? So Sheev was half-assing it against the B-Team?

Darth Thor
Yeah well I guess if this Palpatine is more powerful, Mace's chances decrease given he was stalemating a less powerful version. Unless Vapaad can make up the difference regardless.

MythLord
Originally posted by Emperordmb
More serious? So Sheev was half-assing it against the B-Team?

More like half-assing it against Mace, what with all the "turn Annie to the Dark Side" and all.

McP
DE Sidious is terrible idea, and he's overated in that version. Anyway, Kenobi is a non-factor, and Sidious beats Windu in all-out combat.

RHaggis
Sidious pumps 'em.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Sidious annihilates.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Trocity
Sidious annihilates.

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