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Any character seen in the movies does not count.

I guess Exar Kun.

The greatest duelist in the era of actual duelists, would likely be the HOT.

Caedus.

I'm agreeing with NewGuy.

Jacen Solo.

Darth Krayt

Kun and Krayt.
Kun's mentioning goes without saying and Krayt claiming to have killed thousands of people in 1v1 combat is good enough for me

Caedus is honestly a sub-kenobi duelist.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Darth Krayt

Yes. He'd prolly be my two, honestly.

Plagueis

Plagueis is legends only, confirmed.

Krayt, Kun, Bane, Godlander, Hord are all candidates.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Plagueis is legends only, confirmed. hmm?

Plagueis is a movie character, even if only slightly, he's central to the main character.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Yes. He'd prolly be my two, honestly. You have Jacen above Krayt? :/

As a duelist? Sure.

We shall discuss this in-depth.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Caedus is honestly a sub-kenobi duelist.

So is Exar Kun if you wanted to go by feats

Agreed on both counts, so going with Krayt.

Kuns a good one

Sidious, Krayt, Yoda are all contenders, as well as a few already mentioned by others here.

Darth Bane should be up there

I don't know many duelists who can beat Tukata and elite fighters like Sirak and Fohargh

Originally posted by darthbane77
Sidious, Krayt, Yoda are all contenders, as well as a few already mentioned by others here.

Sidious and Yoda appear in the movies, they don't count.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
We shall discuss this in-depth.
What's your argument?

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
What's your argument?

Idek, I dunno much about Krayt or Caedus.

LOL.

Kun. Revan. Caedus. Krayt.

No particular order.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Kun. Revan. Caedus, Krayt.

No particular order.

Revan is far more deserving of being mentioned than Caedus tbh

Yeah, Revan has some solid dueling feats, but he's Kenobi-level at best in sabers.

Although, I do have Kenobi above Dooku in sabers tbh, so...

Revan has a lot more Force clout than either, better experience with duelling and is capable of stomping armies of Ventress level sith. He's nicely above the aforementioned.

Godlander, Krayt, Kun, Hord, etc are up there.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Plagueis is a movie character, even if only slightly, he's central to the main character. Plagueis was never seen in the movie, he counts, and wins.

Godlander will supercede Plagueis as a swordsman.

Plagueis is ugly, he doesn't count.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Plagueis was never seen in the movie, he counts, and wins.

Even if we count Plagueis he doesn't win, lol.

Yeah Bane takes it, amrite?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Even if we count Plagueis he doesn't win, lol. I don't see why not

I don't see Caedus. Mara Jade beat him; he only killed her through garbage writing via a poison needle that she somehow didn't sense coming despite not trusting him, being aware, and being in a fight for her life. Regardless, she was the better combatant between the two the entire fight. Luke was was never in danger against him when they dueled, and even Ben managed to hold him at bay for a time. While he was injured when Jaina killed him, so was she, and she had been training specifically to be capable of killing him and by all impressions from the final fight and their battle on the asteroid interior prior to that he was not by any means close to the greatest.

Am I missing something, or are people considering him a real contender for this?

She chose an area that restricted his movement and even set up traps. So it wasn't exactly a fight without circumstances, she even admitted she was his inferior in the force. He was also stomped by Luke but that's because Luke is massively more skilled, so how the **** is it a bad thing that he lost to the greatest Jedi in the EU?

Originally posted by carthage
She chose an area that restricted his movement and even set up traps. So it wasn't exactly a fight without circumstances, she even admitted she was his inferior in the force. He was also stomped by Luke but that's because Luke is massively more skilled, so how the **** is it a bad thing that he lost to the greatest Jedi in the EU?
The thread asks who the greatest duelist of the EU is. Jacen/Caedus was beaten by Mara Jade, his sister, and Luke. My question was why people are even considering him when he was beaten in direct combat by better duelists. Let's even for the sake of it throw out Mara Jade and Jaina; that still leaves Luke his better, so again, I'm unclear as to why anyone would even try and argue Caedus as the best in the EU.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
The thread asks who the greatest duelist of the EU is. Jacen/Caedus was beaten by Mara Jade, his sister, and Luke. My question was why people are even considering him when he was beaten in direct combat by better duelists. Let's even for the sake of it throw out Mara Jade and Jaina; that still leaves Luke his better, so again, I'm unclear as to why anyone would even try and argue Caedus as the best in the EU.

He never lost he killed her with a dart in a situation that was beneficial to her and restricted his movments, Jaina was amped by Luke and fled from the battle, and only win on Uroro after he was mortally wounded and missing an arm, and I'm glad you gathered how losing to Luke isn't a Bad feat. Either you aren't taking into context the fact that all of his opponents had benefits to him, or are neglecting that both Mara and Jaina admitted inferiority in the force (which is the basis for Lightsaber skill) . So please consider the context of the duels before making uneducated statements

Caedus, Plagueis, Kun and Krayt are all arguable, good luck finding a consensus on that one.

In terms of pure technical skill, Kun and Krayt are above the rest. Plagueis, much like Sheev and Yoda relies HEAVILY on augmentation so I don't know if Hego can be counted here :/

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Plagueis, much like Sheev and Yoda relies HEAVILY on augmentation so I don't know if Hego can be counted here :/ what is this nonsense

Originally posted by carthage
He never lost he killed her with a dart in a situation that was beneficial to her and restricted his movments, Jaina was amped by Luke and fled from the battle, and only win on Uroro after he was mortally wounded and missing an arm, and I'm glad you gathered how losing to Luke isn't a Bad feat. Either you aren't taking into context the fact that all of his opponents had benefits to him, or are neglecting that both Mara and Jaina admitted inferiority in the force (which is the basis for Lightsaber skill) . So please consider the context of the duels before making uneducated statements

He wouldn't have employed the dart if he could have won outright. She was a superior duelist to him. Again, you admitted yourself above that Luke was his better, so again I ask, why is he even in the conversation? That is my very simple question. Excluding Jaina and Mara Jade, we know that if nothing else Caedus was never on Luke's level. I literally never said that having lost to Luke in itself make him a sub par duelist, I simply stated that it shows that he has no place in a discussion about the best EU duelists.

Superiority in the Force does not mean that someone is a superior duelist. If that were the case Vitiate would have been nigh unstoppable, yet he wasn't, and it has been argued plenty that Sidious and plenty of others were his superior in raw saber combat. When it comes to pure saber prowess there are many who demonstrate greater feats than Vitiate, so are you really going to argue that affinity with the Force is the deciding factor in terms of someone's level of saber skill now? You want to say that Vitiate would have beaten Windu, Yoda, or Luke simply because of his arcane ability?

You can come with vitriol all you want, you can be upset all you like, you can chose to be obstinate and make personal remarks rather than addressing what I brought up all you like, but again, my simple question is why is Caedus even being brought up when multiple EU duelists have shown better feats? I'm not sure why you're going around and around on other points when you could have answered that and been done.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
She was a superior duelist to him.

It's actually noted in the text that Caedus was a far more skilled swordsman than Mara; she had the advantage because he was badly wounded and because she managed to turn the fight into a brawl rather than a duel.



Like what, in particular?

And if she was more skilled she would've been able to beat him outright anywhere instead of meticulously searching for an area that restricted his movements and using her assassins weapons as opposed to an actual duel:



-Sacrifice

So she knowingly had prep, and chose an area that benefited her as opposed to fighting him on neutral ground due to him being more powerful.

The narrator also states she's his inferior



In another part she hides while he's wandering the tunnels, and kicks him severing tendons in his knees and collapses tunnels on him after he's trapped. So again if she's more skilled why is she resorting to her assassin abilities instead of fighting him on neutral ground and not in a confined space?



A strong force connection enables a force user to master forms more rapidly, bridge the gap in knowledge between a mentor and his student, and excel in learning. Its why ROTJ Luke defeated Vader with minimal training, POD Bane could fight evenly with Kas'im with minimal training, or why Return Malgus could best Kao after the latter was more technically skilled. So yes a force connection is integral in lightsaber combat. Jacen having more inherent potential than Mara, and his vastly superior connection was the whole reason she had to set up traps and remove the area of movement because he's better. Vitiate's a bad example he was a Sorcerer supreme who studied the darkside for thousands of years, and Sidious at the end of ROTJ completely disregarded the lightsaber and called it a "Jedi weapon" because he had attained total mastery of the force. If Vitiate wanted too he likely could've learned and exceeded in Swordsmanship, but what the hell is the point of that when you've attained total mastery of the darkside like either Sidious or Vitiate?

Again, you said above Luke>Jacen, so my question still stands, why is he even being mentioned here in contention for best duelist? I asked that from the start. You chose to reply in regards to the Mara Jade fight, which is fine, whatever, it's been discussed now.

My question still stands: why is Jacen/Caedus even being mentioned when Luke is his clear superior? There's no need to even argue that others are better as well when we have direct showings of Luke being his better, therefore negating any chance of him being the best duelist in the EU.

Jacen. Kun and Krayt are close, though.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Again, you said above Luke>Jacen, so my question still stands, why is he even being mentioned here in contention for best duelist? I asked that from the start. You chose to reply in regards to the Mara Jade fight, which is fine, whatever, it's been discussed now.

My question still stands: why is Jacen/Caedus even being mentioned when Luke is his clear superior? There's no need to even argue that others are better as well when we have direct showings of Luke being his better, therefore negating any chance of him being the best duelist in the EU.

Because Luke is also in the movies. Did you even read the OP?

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Again, you said above Luke>Jacen, so my question still stands, why is he even being mentioned here in contention for best duelist? I asked that from the start. You chose to reply in regards to the Mara Jade fight, which is fine, whatever, it's been discussed now.

My question still stands: why is Jacen/Caedus even being mentioned when Luke is his clear superior? There's no need to even argue that others are better as well when we have direct showings of Luke being his better, therefore negating any chance of him being the best duelist in the EU.
Originally posted by Balta Skywalker
Any character seen in the movies does not count.

Alright, my bad on that. I still don't see Caedus as in the discussion. Kun has demonstrated better feats. Raskta Lsu, limited though her presence is, did not lose in a single incident of single combat during the entire Sith conflict and her showing against an amped, orbalisk wearing Bane was more than noteworthy. In the same position Caedus does not stand as long, especially not when actually handicapped at times by the others helping him.

I don't see how Hord gets into the discussion either. There's no question that he was the greatest duelist up to his time and well beyond, but the text has Kas'im as his better after, and context shows Bane as Kas'im's equal in almost all ways when they fight, his better in some, and without question his better in every way by the time of his death. Even excepting that, there's really so little information about Hord that it's rather difficult to speak to exactly what he's capable of, so arguing for him has a rather tenuous base to stand on.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
I still don't see Caedus as in the discussion.



http://i35.servimg.com/u/f35/17/73/92/12/thanks10.png

Feel free to post Caedus feats that you think show him to be a superior duelist to Lsu and Kun.

Honestly, Kas'im.

You really think so?

Lmao

Bandon, obviously.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Godlander will supercede Plagueis as a swordsman.

Following are contenders:-

- Hero of Tython
- Tulak Hord
- Exar Kun
- Arcann

Excluding Plagueis? Caedus, Kun or Tenebrous (possibly)

Originally posted by AncientPower
Caedus, Plagueis, Kun and Krayt are all arguable, good luck finding a consensus on that one.