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The One Above is credited in Marvel as being the definitive Master and creator in all of Marvel.

Can the same be extended to DC and applied to the Presence? Or are there external forces that go beyond the Presence?

Can someone give me a clear awnser and point out who is The End All and Be all of DC line?

Bonus: Did we ever figure out who is the equivalent to The Living Tribunal in both power, and stature?

No

Originally posted by abhilegend
No

No what?

In ALL of DC Publication? Nah.

But is it confirmed anywhere that TOAA is the creator of the current Beyond Realm, or is that just assumed?

"Suck it Galan"

Astner has been posting that interview like it actually means something for months now. It was properly shut down by several of us multiple times this thread:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15483114& amp;%20highlight=sandman+%2318+forumid%3A77+userid
%3A9873%3Cbr%20/%3E3#post15483114
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=15627394#post15627394
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=619605&pagenumber=21

This is the precise reason *why* writer interviews cannot be used on the forum to retroactively retcon decadeS-worth of on panel material.

In the beginning... Man created God in his image.

TOAA destroys the Presence. Hell, Dream of the Endless with enough dreamers destroys the Presence.

That is idiotic, zop, and outright ignores canon evidence...

As I have mentioned before...

Obviously God(in the sense that we're referencing him in this thread) isn't reliant on the dreams of others to exist. If he were, then Dream of the Endless would hold some degree of power over him. We know this is definitely NOT the case, based on Morpheus himself telling us where his power stood in comparison to Lucifer(who is <<<< The Presence):
http://i.imgur.com/6lvKAX8.png


Additionally, if The Presence were reliant on the dreams of others to exist, then the dreamers would have to predate him--which they obviously/canonically do not. First came The Presence. Then came Michael/Lucifer. Then came everything else.


*This is why writer interviews and whatnot aren't admissible as evidence on the forums. Carey is inadvertently trying to faux-retcon decadeS-worth of canon history in a single Twitter response. Doesn't work that way, lol.

I have a quick question...

Who created "the earlier creation" that mentioned in the letter page of Lucifer #29?

http://imgur.com/a/w1Z41

Also, in Lucifer: Nirvana that mentioned like earlier crude creation:

http://imgur.com/a/yhBHv

Galan with the counter.

Originally posted by Galan007
Additionally, if The Presence were reliant on the dreams of others to exist, then the dreamers would have to predate him--which they obviously/canonically do not. First came The Presence. Then came Michael/Lucifer. Then came everything else.
Doesn't work that way, lol.
They could have just 'dreamed' up the creation story with "God" making the universe and everything in it.

We already have on panel proof that outside forces influence Vertigo's "God". The "Dream of a Thousand Cats" story makes perfect sense in a comic setting. Humans dreamed up "God".

@backup
Excellent point regarding the Silk Man and his creator (who is NOT Vertigo's "God".

Those of you who like Carey should check his series the Unwritten out.

The God Emperor of Mankind kills both of them.

TOAA>>>>>The Presence

No, Presence>>>>TOAA.

Emperor couldn't even kill ****ing Horus lmao

Originally posted by krisblaze
Emperor couldn't even kill ****ing Horus lmao WTF DID YOU JUST SAY!?!?!?!?
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/855/340/23b.jpg
1. He could and did.
2. He was holding back immensely against him.
3. It says something that once he stopped holding back, he oneshotted him and destroyed his soul while doing it.

SAY SOMETHING AGAIN. I DARE YOU; I DOUBLE DARE YOU.
http://67.media.tumblr.com/26e45ee83a9c22bc36077124bd366a34/tumblr_necyl1yJe51u2dddoo1_400.jpg

lol

we'll see how it's written in HH

@ Astner

Not sure how your post, in any way/shape/form, implies that the Dreamers predate the Presence?

Additionally, more recent canon tells us that Time and Night were not only the first concepts in existence, but their union is what birthed creation(ALL versions of it) and also created The Endless:
http://i.imgur.com/hU2feOZ.jpg

In fact, Night(who embodies void/nothingness) actually predates 'the beginning'... And Time is who created/gave Destiny his Book.


But yeah, keep relying on a blurb from Twitter... Especially when it is explicitly contradicted by yearS-worth of canon.

Originally posted by Galan007
Additionally, more recent canon tells us that Time and Night were not only the first concepts in existence, but their union is what birthed creation(ALL versions of it) and also created The Endless:
http://i.imgur.com/hU2feOZ.jpg

But I thought Lucifer/Michael created everything?

Perhaps they created the concept of Time and Night and forced their union, which spawned creation..?

Unsure exactly how Carey-canon meshes with current Gaiman-canon. /shrug

There are conflicting statements in the comics.

But surely no one would believe such a ludicrous idea as dreamers predating the force that created them?

Originally posted by krisblaze
There are conflicting statements in the comics.

In one instance Death implied that Lucifer+Michael created Yahweh's cosmos:
http://i.imgur.com/5xmr5du.jpg

In another instance, the exact opposite was stated by the narrator:
http://i.imgur.com/lqV8TGg.jpg


...The latter makes more sense in regard to meshing current Gaiman-canon.

Originally posted by krisblaze
But surely no one would believe such a ludicrous idea as dreamers predating the force that created them? I wish this were the case...

Originally posted by Galan007
Perhaps they created the concept of Time and Night and forced their union, which spawned creation..?

Unsure exactly how Carey-canon meshes with current Gaiman-canon. /shrug

Hey Galan, did not exist one time before of time itself?

Cause in Rann/Thanagar: Holy War #6 mentioned this:

https://imgur.com/a/7KAYc

Originally posted by backup
Hey Galan, did not exist one time before of time itself?

Cause in Rann/Thanagar: Holy War #6 mentioned this:

https://imgur.com/a/7KAYc
Who are they referring to when they mention thr Supreme One.

Originally posted by backup
Hey Galan, did not exist one time before of time itself?

Cause in Rann/Thanagar: Holy War #6 mentioned this:

https://imgur.com/a/7KAYc I have no idea what you're asking/saying..?

Originally posted by "Id"
Who are they referring to when they mention thr Supreme One. That would be Starlin's take on The Presence, as described by Synnar.

Originally posted by Galan007
Not sure how your post, in any way/shape/form, implies that the Dreamers predate the Presence?
They did not predate the Presence. The dreamers changed the past, so that the Presence would be their creator.

http://i.imgur.com/3aWw3UVm.jpg

"They dreamed the world so it ALWAYS WAS the way it is now, little one. There WAS never a world of high cat-ladies and cat-lords. They change the universe from the beginning of all things, until the end of time."

Originally posted by Galan007
But yeah, keep relying on a blurb from Twitter... Especially when it is explicitly contradicted by yearS-worth of canon.
What's the contradiction? We know that the Presence was in some sense created. He explained this himself.

http://i.imgur.com/wHjzRDnm.jpg

And like I pointed out earlier it's not just according to Mike Carey, there are hints of it in the story. The prehuman subbasement of reality shaped by the dreams and fears of animals that Elaine found when she became God is clearly another reference to Niel Gaiman's A Dream of a Thousand Cats.

Furthermore I don't see why Mike Carey would lie when answering a question regarding a reference.

The Above-All-Others is the Marvel's equivalent of the Primal Monitor.

Originally posted by Astner
They did not predate the Presence. The dreamers changed the past, so that the Presence would be their creator.

http://i.imgur.com/3aWw3UVm.jpg

"They dreamed the world so it ALWAYS WAS the way it is now, little one. There WAS never a world of high cat-ladies and cat-lords. They change the universe from the beginning of all things, until the end of time." If they changed reality so that it was *always* that way, then how in the heck does Morpheus still know about it..? Are you starting to see the glaring contradictions here..?

Anyway, I find it extremely faulty that you're cherry-picking a single issue that is the better part of 30 years old, and disregarding decadeS-worth of DC/Vertigo canon, which tells us that The Presence... And The Presence alone... Was responsible for birthing creation. Dreamers played absolutely NO part in it.

Hell, I literally just showed you a very recent scan from Gaiman himself(same guy who wrote your cat issue) which states that the union between Time and Night was responsible for spawning ALL versions of creation, along with The Endless themselves, and most importantly: DREAMERS:
http://i.imgur.com/zE3ShhE.jpg

Why are you ignoring that?

But yeah, cling to the notion that, on some level, Morpheus holds a degree of power over The Presence, given that he was shaped by the very concept Morpheus embodies. Again, makes perfect sense.

Originally posted by Astner
Furthermore I don't see why Mike Carey would lie when answering a question regarding a reference.

Brevoort said in interviews that The End is non-canon and that Sentry beat a peak Molecule Man. Pak compared Hulk to Galactus in an interview. Jason said Hulk is the most powerful being in the universe. etc. etc. etc.

It's not uncommon for writers to try and add shit to their stories after the fact via interviews. In this case, we have Carey trying to faux-retcon decadeS-worth of established canon almost 10 years after he finished writing Lucifer... With a single Twitter response.

Lol, it obviously doesn't work that way.

I said it before and I'll say it again: Carey was more likely alluding to the notion that comics come from the imaginations/dreams of people. We're talking real people here, not comic book denizens.

Real people (let's call them "dreamers" create comics. Dreamers create characters and stories, and then years/decades later dreamers build on, expand, alter, and manipulate those stories. In that way they continue on and grow.

Totally like him to be vague as phuck (and not to write an essay on Twitter)

That still makes the most sense to me, and is also the most cohesive with in-universe canon.

Originally posted by Galan007

Time and Night was responsible for spawning ALL versions of creation,
along with The Endless themselves, and most importantly: DREAMERS:
Interesting. So, who in DC/Vertigo/whathaveyou embodies these Concepts?

In Marvel, Eternity, embodies "Time" ... and Oblivion, embodies the first "Night."

(devil's advocate inquiry) Is it possible the cats created that too? If they supposedly made the Presence, why stop there?
Originally posted by Galan007

Pak compared Hulk to Galactus in an interview.
... I can't believe that. I believe you, but wtf?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Interesting. So, who in DC/Vertigo/whathaveyou embodies these Concepts? Time and Night are the beings who embody said concepts -- those are their names.

Here is Time(the father):
http://i.imgur.com/2ltKTa8.jpg

Here is Night(the mother):
http://i.imgur.com/qPBDaK1.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
(devil's advocate inquiry) Is it possible the cats created that too? If they supposedly made the Presence, why stop there? No. They are responsible for creating "ALL" versions of the universe, along with The Endless AND dreamers. IOW, they created the dreamers, not the other way around.

...And since Destiny is their child, we know they predate him, which means they predate the official beginning of all things.

Originally posted by Mr Master
... I can't believe that. I believe you, but wtf? Pak's an idiot.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
The Above-All-Others is the Marvel's equivalent of the Primal Monitor.

The Primal Monitor is meta-fictional, representing the blank page. Marvel has no corresponding concept in its cosmology.

God/The Presence (DC) represents the avatar for the DC writers, just as God/TOAA is the same for Marvel.

Originally posted by Galan007
No. Time and Night predate Destiny.

Early Gaiman, Carey, and current Gaiman certainly conflict with one another somewhat. Anywho, Lucifer was shown creating time in his creation, for what that's worth.

Originally posted by Cogito
I said it before and I'll say it again: Carey was more likely alluding to the notion that comics come from the imaginations/dreams of people. We're talking real people here, not comic book denizens.

Real people (let's call them "dreamers" create comics. Dreamers create characters and stories, and then years/decades later dreamers build on, expand, alter, and manipulate those stories. In that way they continue on and grow.
Then it would not be a reference to A Dream of A Thousand Cats.

Originally posted by Cogito
Totally like him to be vague as phuck (and not to write an essay on Twitter)
There was a forum post on another forum posted a couple of years before the Tweet further specifying that it wasn't metafictional.

http://i.imgur.com/UM9jE0D.png

^ So we're supposed to take some random guy's word on the internet at face value now? C'mon. srsly

Originally posted by Galan007
^ So we're supposed to take some random guy's word on the internet at face value now?
Considering how his answer was the same answer Mike Carey gave four years later I definitely think there's a degree of credibility to it.

At the very least it isn't baseless like the argument that "it's a reference to the writers."

Originally posted by Astner
At the very least it isn't baseless like the argument that "it's a reference to the writers."

Don't forget that while Carey is a phenomenal writer and created a great story, he is far from the only authority on the matter.

e.g. Grant Morrison established God as the avatar of the writer long before Carey came along.

^^ When did Morrison establish the Presence as the avatar of the writers?
Originally posted by Cogito

The Primal Monitor is meta-fictional, representing the blank page.

Marvel has no corresponding concept in its cosmology.
Marvel has met-fictional comedy in their world too.

I know of even just aspects of TOAA who can manifest blank pages at whim.
Originally posted by Cogito

God/The Presence (DC) represents the avatar for the DC writers,

just as God/TOAA is the same for Marvel.
I disagree.

TOAA is the fictional representation of the real world writers/artists.

The Presence is definitely not that description. The Presence is represented in a purely fictional fashion.

Presence gets stomped.

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ When did Morrison establish the Presence as the avatar of the writers?

http://comicsalliance.com/files/2010/12/animal-man-grant-morrison.jpg

I don't have the whole thing, Galan can probably fill you in if he wants

Originally posted by Mr Master
Marvel has met-fictional comedy in their world too.

I know of even just aspects of TOAA who can manifest blank pages at whim.
The blank page is literally that. An artist or writer cannot create it, it already exists. It's all the emptiness/potential on which works are created.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I disagree.

TOAA is the fictional representation of the real world writers/artists.

The Presence is definitely not that description. The Presence is represented in a purely fictional fashion. I don't see the difference.


Astner - For some reason I can't quote you

If God is already defined, we can't so easily turn that upside down. Especially not with a f'ing vague Tweet

Originally posted by Cogito

I don't have the whole thing, Galan can probably fill you in if he wants
I have that book, it's Animal Man. ... and that's not the "Presence."

That's the fictional representation of the writer/artist via an illustrated avatar.

The Presence doesn't speak or relate these "real world" concepts/understandings as the Morrison avatar.
Originally posted by Cogito

The blank page is literally that. An artist or writer cannot create it, it already exists. It's all the emptiness/potential on which works are created.
The "blank page" is created in some manufacturing plant using wood, materials and machines.

That aside, these meat-fictional concepts don't mesh with art that's constricted to comicbook laws. Pointless really imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ So we're supposed to take some random guy's word on the internet at face value now? C'mon. srsly
I know CBG personally.

Not so random. And he has worked for DC, he was commissioned to published an entry for the thier Handbook, specifically Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Originally posted by "Id"
I know CBG personally.

Not so random. And he has worked for DC, he was commissioned to published an entry for the thier Handbook, specifically Crisis on Infinite Earths. Don't care.

If writer interviews aren't admissible here, then some random guy's posts certainly are not. Pasting one of his posts like it's supposed to mean something is... Kind of funny, actually.

Topic still stands. Is Yahew or the Presence the be all end all of DC?

If so why?

If not, why not and if not him who is?

Originally posted by "Id"
Topic still stands. Is Yahew or the Presence the be all end all of DC?
Yes.

Originally posted by "Id"
If so why?
Because that was what he was created to be, regardless of interpretation.

Originally posted by Galan007
Don't care.

If writer interviews aren't admissible here, then some random guy's posts certainly are not. Pasting one of his posts like it's supposed to mean something is... Kind of funny, actually.

Indeed. In fact the entire notion of God being shaped by his own creation is entirely contradictory to the premise of the Lucifer series.

To recap:
- God is "infinite and eternal" (as stated by himself).
- Everything occurs according to "the plan", which God of course knows in it's entirety because he's God. God knows everything that will ever happen because it's all predetermined and he's omniscient
- God created everything, including dreamers and the dreaming
- If dreamers are shaping God, then they're doing so according to his plan
- If God is being shaped according to his plan and his creations, then he's not shaped by "external forces"

QED

Originally posted by "Id"
Topic still stands. Is Yahew or the Presence the be all end all of DC?

If so why?

If not, why not and if not him who is?
Yes, he is. Whether he's omnipotent in DC because writers say so or because at times he's the comic book avatar of the writers doesn't matter. At the end of the day it's the same thing - he's top dog. Nothing has ever truly contradicted that.

Originally posted by Galan007
Don't care.

If writer interviews aren't admissible here, then some random guy's posts certainly are not. Pasting one of his posts like it's supposed to mean something is... Kind of funny, actually.

The bottom line of the argument being presented is the "Forces External" that molded Yahweh, and that Licifer knows well who he speaks off are tied to the in comic reference & theroy in that Cat arc is which dreams of men reshaped creation retconning the timeline and establishing Yahweh as the supreme creator for said series.

Weather this arc is conttrodicting or conflicting is not the main point. Whats established is thier are external forces greater than Yahweh, and Lucifer knows of them.

Unless evidence is brought forward to reveal who or what those Forces External are, its all guess work. And guess work from a fan on this Forum is no better than the explanatation of the writer.

Originally posted by "Id"
Unless evidence is brought forward to reveal who or what those Forces External are, its all guess work. Agreed. I have been saying this ever since the issue was released.

Originally posted by Cogito
Yes, he is. Whether he's omnipotent in DC because writers say so or because at times he's the comic book avatar of the writers doesn't matter. At the end of the day it's the same thing - he's top dog. Nothing has ever truly contradicted that.
Except he's not. There's even things in DC/Vertigo that PREDATE his creation and were NOT created by him or his proxies. Whoops!

Originally posted by zopzop
Except he's not. There's even things in DC/Vertigo that PREDATE his creation and were NOT created by him or his proxies. Whoops! And there are beings in Marvel that predate its creation (e.g. Oblivion). That does not mean the Presence has any less power.

Take the example of the Silk Man. He claims predate creation, but practically shit the bed in fear when a completely depowered Lucifer came near. Would his existence challenge God's power?

Also, just because some beings may be from before the current creation, that does not mean they pre-date God. There are mentions of previous creations (of God's).

Originally posted by zopzop
Except he's not. There's even things in DC/Vertigo that PREDATE his creation and were NOT created by him or his proxies. Whoops!

So what? That is the nature of everything, the universe collapses back into the void, and then it starts again. The whole point in Lucifer and his father talking at the end, was he wanted to be his own maker, when Lucifer told him, "You seem to have managed well enough", he envies that about his father.

Even Imperiex-Prime was shaped by the events in OWAW. It happens to everyone no matter how powerful, and everyone has a part to play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=920vUJfKXTw

Originally posted by Cogito
And there are beings in Marvel that predate its creation (e.g. Oblivion). That does not mean the Presence has any less power.

Take the example of the Silk Man. He claims predate creation, but practically shit the bed in fear when a completely depowered Lucifer came near. Would his existence challenge God's power?

Also, just because some beings may be from before the current creation, that does not mean they pre-date God. There are mentions of previous creations (of God's).
Originally posted by kevdude
So what? That is the nature of everything, the universe collapses back into the void, and then it starts again. The whole point in Lucifer and his father talking at the end, was he wanted to be his own maker, when Lucifer told him, "You seem to have managed well enough", he envies that about his father.

Even Imperiex-Prime was shaped by the events in OWAW. It happens to everyone no matter how powerful, and everyone has a part to play.
You don't get it. Oblivion was created along with the rest of the abstracts by the same being. TOAA. There are beings and entire universes in Vertigo that PREDATE yahweh's creation and were not created by him or his proxies (Lucifer/Michael, Synnar, etc..).

Ergo, he's not supreme since by definition there can be nothing not created by God or his proxies. Silk Man was from a previous OLDER creation NOT created by Yahweh or his proxies. Whoops!
http://i.imgur.com/F5mzrY5.png

How does Silk Man not being fashioned by God make God himself less omnipotent?

Originally posted by zopzop
You don't get it. Oblivion was created along with the rest of the abstracts by the same being. TOAA. There are beings and entire universes in Vertigo that PREDATE yahweh's creation and were not created by him or his proxies (Lucifer/Michael, Synnar, etc..).

Ergo, he's not supreme since by definition there can be nothing not created by God or his proxies. Silk Man was from a previous OLDER creation NOT created by Yahweh or his proxies. Whoops!
http://i.imgur.com/F5mzrY5.png

I get it a lot better then most here tbh...

He is supreme, everything holds together because he is there, he IS the Logos. I think you are confused, the Silk Man came from a previous creation, just like Lucifer stated, he is "just stretching the rules a little". Mike Carey explained it in the narration "one and one are not two - if one and one cannot meet".

Not like this matters, in Nirvana. Lucifer killed the immortal sorcerer as if he was nothing, and this is when he was hoping and pleading for God to step in and save him. Whoops!

Originally posted by Galan007
How does Silk Man not being fashioned by God make God himself less omnipotent?
It's not just Silk Man, there were entire dimensions/universes NOT created by Yahweh from a PREVIOUS creation. He's obviously not God if there exists something he did NOT create either directly or by proxy.

Originally posted by kevdude
Not like this matters, in Nirvana. Lucifer killed the immortal sorcerer as if he was nothing, and this is when he was hoping and pleading for God to step in and save him. Whoops!
Silk Man's power level was never the issue, it's the fact that he was NOT created by Yahweh and preceded his creation that's important. Whoopsie!

It was also stated that Silk Man was "the chosen of Destiny":
http://i.imgur.com/oTn4Ve4.jpg

So whether he was created by God or not, he was still part of 'the plan', and as such had a role to play in God's preordained scheme of things.

^^it doesn't matter if he was created by him or not, that's the point. He is not the supreme being in the universe. He lives in YHWH's creation, that makes whatever he does is known to YHWH, written in Destinys book.

Edit: like galan said.

Originally posted by "Id"
Topic still stands. Is Yahew or the Presence the be all end all of DC?

If so why?

If not, why not and if not him who is?
Anyone?

Originally posted by Galan007
It was also stated that Silk Man was "the chosen of Destiny":
http://i.imgur.com/oTn4Ve4.jpg

So whether he was created by God or not, he was still part of 'the plan', and as such had a role to play in God's preordained scheme of things.
Which is all well and good but it still stands that there are entire universes NOT created by Yahweh or his proxies (that actually predate his creation) ergo he isn't the Supreme Being.

He is the Supreme Being, though. Just because certain realms and characters exist that predate his creation doesn't make him any less supreme.

As I said above: even a being Yahweh did not create(ie. Silk Man) was still part of his plan... As are ALL things.

Originally posted by Galan007
He is the Supreme Being, though. Just because certain realms and characters exist that predate his creation doesn't make him any less supreme.

Yes it does by definition.


Well I would hope so, seeing as how Silk Man was NOW in Yahweh's creation.

Kind of seems like you're going out of your way to low-ball Yahweh for some reason, so I see no reason to continue this discussion. srug

^^So the Silk Man stretched the rules of the universe a little, he was from a previous creation. It doesn't mean anything really, cause they can't even meet! You must be confused by the comic or just wanting to argue for no reason. I'd go with the latter.

Originally posted by zopzop
TOAA destroys the Presence. Hell, Dream of the Endless with enough dreamers destroys the Presence.

Originally posted by leonidas
lol oh zop, you're so ridiculously predictable. taking the comment at its word, where is your proof such a tactic would be remotely possible? having been created to BE supreme he IS supreme and has always BEEN supreme. where do you get the idea that he can now just be 'uncreated' by any force, even those alleged to have shaped him? you make it sound like you have some support for the idea that we can gather a bunch of people, have them not believe in god, and suddenly, he's gone.

having been brought into being, god is now a separate entity, a supreme entity. lucifer too is separate. he was never 'dreamed' into being he was made by god, so trying to 'dream' him away lol would be....really stupid. as far as god--before the creation, he existed in a realm of nothingness--you know, where there were no people to have ever believed in him. no where in any vertigo book is god's power shown as being based on belief--regardless of how you credit his having been formed. in fact, his power is said to be eternal--it will FAR outlast anything living. if anything, taking carey at his word means thanos would have zero chance here. god was dreamed to be supreme, above ALL. thanos's power would be utterly meaningless and he'd be dismissed as a child would be.

and given that lucifer is the representation of his will, lucifer would also be clearly beyond the ig's ability to affect.

Originally posted by leonidas
just so's we're all clear--no proof--not even an allusion--to this absurd notion that god can just be...uncreated by forcing people to....dream it? good. so, obviously we can also agree that continuing along such an utterly unsubstantiated line of thought like that could, at best, be seen as trolling, and at worst as outright perpetuation of misinformation potentially ending up with mod warnings or something like that? fan-phukcing-tastic. glad we're all on the same page here.

Originally posted by Cogito

And there are beings in Marvel that predate its creation (e.g. Oblivion).

the Silk Man.
...

In Marvel, everything, everything imaginable or possible, is courtesy of TOAA.

TOAA creates would be "Gods" and/or "Supreme beings" for lulz.

TOAA makes "God" ... so Marvel can have a so called "God" ...

... but TOAA is beyond/above fantastical concepts like in-universe "God" relating to a religious tone.

TOAA known as "God" ... was portrayed as again, the fictional representative avatar of the writer/artist.

No, it is not.