Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPD_K50WZXo&t=4m25s

Oh thank god, the new canon isn't gonna be pulling some survivors from the Jedi Purge that pop up later after the Empire. Or at least I hope not, given Sam's words here, that the Jedi are fracking dead.

That annoyed the hell out of me in the old EU and made both Obi-Wan's and Yoda's commentary meaningless.

But anyway, that said, interesting find about the Maul V Vader thing.

Witwer really emphasizes the gap between trained Force-users like Tano and Maul, and then half-trained Force-users or children of the Force like Kanan and Ezra. That's relieving to say the least, because I was genuinely worried about Kanan or Ezra potentially besting Maul in a fair fight, but that doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon. Also, in Canon, the gap between Palpatine and Vader honestly does not seem even half as large as it was in the Legends-verse.

Abit however, I am kinda wondering though. Given the comments and timeframe, just how is one suppose to gauge Vader in his ability, if he isn't fighting challenging Force Users?

Because as noted, it seems like Maul is the only legitimate challenge by comparison to the rest in the galaxy at this point in time, until Luke finally comes along.

I guess they could go the route, of Vader fighting superhumans that aren't Force Users, yet extremely deadly and above your regular guy or droids as those are plentiful and have been shown in both Canon and Legends.

However even this only goes so far.

Going by Legends TPM Maul>ANH Vader. I can't watch the video tho.

It said he was out killing the Jedi at this point in time, and we have no confirmation of the fates of Barriss Offee, Eeth Koth, or Quinlan Vos- so who knows what canon is planning or if they died during the Purge/Order 66. I would hope Maul would find someone to train at this point, its so obvious he wants to share his teachings and it kind of sucks that he's unable too lol.

Vader's going to rape Maul when/if they fight tbh, lol

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Also, in Canon, the gap between Palpatine and Vader honestly does not seem even half as large as it was in the Legends-verse.



Hell yeah.. Canon loves it some Vader wank

Vader's a shoo-in for most powerful Force User of all time, like he rightfully deserves.

All hail the embodiment of Anakin's furnace heart going critical - Machine Vader

:/

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Abit however, I am kinda wondering though. Given the comments and timeframe, just how is one suppose to gauge Vader in his ability, if he isn't fighting challenging Force Users?

Because as noted, it seems like Maul is the only legitimate challenge by comparison to the rest in the galaxy at this point in time, until Luke finally comes along.

I guess they could go the route, of Vader fighting superhumans that aren't Force Users, yet extremely deadly and above your regular guy or droids as those are plentiful and have been shown in both Canon and Legends.

However even this only goes so far. Vader's seemingly ability to trounce Maul and decisively overcome Ahsoka, both top-tier duelists, should give you an impression of how capable a combatant Vader is. He's evidently leaps and bounds above your average Jedi Council member, and a league above the likes of Dooku and perhaps even Windu.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Vader's seemingly ability to trounce Maul and decisively overcome Ahsoka, both top-tier duelists, should give you an impression of how capable a combatant Vader is. He's evidently leaps and bounds above your average Jedi Council member, and a league above the likes of Dooku and perhaps even Windu.

I guess, but just 2 fights? /shrug

Ahsoka, Obi-Wan, Maul. All the best PT guys still around (sans Yoda) are inferior to Vader.

That plus confirmation Vader > ROTS Anakin means anyone Anakin beat, Vader would beat (sans the Son and Daughter).

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Vader's seemingly ability to trounce Maul and decisively overcome Ahsoka, both top-tier duelists, should give you an impression of how capable a combatant Vader is. He's evidently leaps and bounds above your average Jedi Council member, and a league above the likes of Dooku and perhaps even Windu.

The gap between Maul and Vader doesn't seem that big, Ahsoka was putting up a great fight and we know that Maul is her superior.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Ahsoka, Obi-Wan, Maul. All the best PT guys still around (sans Yoda) are inferior to Vader.

That plus confirmation Vader > ROTS Anakin means anyone Anakin beat, Vader would beat (sans the Son and Daughter).

Vader is more powerful then Anakin, you can even debate if it's in raw power or mastery, not necessarely a better, or equal, lightsaber duelist.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Vader is more powerful then Anakin, you can even debate if it's in raw power or mastery, not necessarely a better, or equal, lightsaber duelist.


Doesn't matter when it comes to an all out. No ones mentioned Saber Only fights. Just who Vader can beat in a fight.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Doesn't matter when it comes to an all out. No ones mentioned Saber Only fights. Just who Vader can beat in a fight.

Of course lightsaber skill is important in a fight...

Good job Vader still has great Saber Skillz. Limited a little by the suit, but also boosted by increase of power in the Force.

So even IF he is < Anakin in that department it likely won't be by much. Where as his Beastly unparalleled (so far in Canon) TK puts him well above Anakin in an all out.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
The gap between Maul and Vader doesn't seem that big, Ahsoka was putting up a great fight and we know that Maul is her superior. A great effort yes, but she remained outclassed.

This being a significant improvement from Legends!Vader where him vs Maul could go either way.

Maul is confirmed better than Ahsoka?

It's implied in the episode, and elaborated upon in the episode guide.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Vader's seemingly ability to trounce Maul and decisively overcome Ahsoka, both top-tier duelists, should give you an impression of how capable a combatant Vader is. He's evidently leaps and bounds above your average Jedi Council member, and a league above the likes of Dooku and perhaps even Windu.

https://images.rapgenius.com/31a5ddd0eb1687e09467ad1c93102709.250x225x166.gif

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Of course lightsaber skill is important in a fight...

You are arguing with Vader sycophants who shut down parts of their brains years ago when it comes to the character.

Quan: if this next season, by some chance, Vader and Maul were to fight, would you accept the outcome and its implications if Vader beat him?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Quan: if this next season, by some chance, Vader and Maul were to fight, would you accept the outcome and its implications if Vader beat him? I never deny the facts or the context. If you research my posting history this will confirm my statements to be true. That being said I am confident in my position.

Did you accept Vader beating Sidious in Rotj with one hand alone ?

I accept that Vader killed the Emperor and died in the process, sure.

Wasn't a fight, though.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Quan: if this next season, by some chance, Vader and Maul were to fight, would you accept the outcome and its implications if Vader beat him?


Nah he would come out with some trash like "He beat Old Maul, but Prime Maul would push his shit in"

Even though he's always argued Machine Vader is a slow machine man.

His Trolling will continue regardless of outcomes and creator statements.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I accept that Vader killed the Emperor and died in the process, sure.

Wasn't a fight, though. Vader killed him first without a weapon and after he lost a duel badly to Luke. That's a tough pill to swallow.

I know because Palpatine despite his force knowledge and power couldn't even mount a real offensive because he was tossed to his death. He was victimized by a one handed cyborg. Tragic way to die.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nah he would come out with some trash like "He beat Old Maul, but Prime Maul would push his shit in"

Even though he's always argued Machine Vader is a slow machine man.

His Trolling will continue regardless of outcomes and creator statements. Machine Vader isn't as maneuverable as rots Anakin. That's a fact you fool.

Maul isn't in his physical prime just as Kenobi wasn't in his physical prime in ANH.

You bragged about how above Vader is to Tano and what happened after these two clashed.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/67849994cbf8f2dc62959cc5a9890c8f/tumblr_o4w05ub2pO1s6fqh2o1_500.gif

Source material>>>opinions.

Interesting that both of the situations you mentioned involved a Sith Lord getting attacked from behind while they were focusing their powers on someone else.

Meanwhile, Maul's gotten thrown off cliffs by two Padawans in one-on-one engagements where Maul had the advantage. I.e one of them was blind, and the other was disarmed and hugging a ledge.

Yeah as far as embarrassing defeats are concerned, Maul can hardly talk.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Interesting that both of the situations you mentioned involved a Sith Lord getting attacked from behind while they were focusing their powers on someone else.

Meanwhile, Maul's gotten thrown off cliffs by two Padawans in one-on-one engagements where Maul had the advantage. I.e one of them was blind, and the other was disarmed and hugging a ledge. Vader has precog and turned around. If he is at his best it isn't that impressive.

He fell off a cliff as he was overconfident. He wasn't injured at all. You also ignore Maul blind in gand was going to kill him when Tano blocked the kill strike. Context. Quit highlighting one aspect while completely ignoring the other.

Maul is overconfident and has Kenobi bested skill wise. Better than being beaten the **** down by Luke or Kenobi letting Vader strike him down in ANH. Earn that shit, Vader.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yeah as far as embarrassing defeats are concerned, Maul can hardly talk. He can talk since he's survived both. Anakin and his embarrassing defeats is legendary. Dooku twice, Kenobi (crying and pouting as he burns), force pushed into defeat by Kanan and Ezra, force choked along with Kenobi against paltry Ventress, and Luke just going ham on him in ROTJ.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Interesting that both of the situations you mentioned involved a Sith Lord getting attacked from behind while they were focusing their powers on someone else.

Meanwhile, Maul's gotten thrown off cliffs by two Padawans in one-on-one engagements where Maul had the advantage. I.e one of them was blind, and the other was disarmed and hugging a ledge.



He's got you there, quan.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Quan: if this next season, by some chance, Vader and Maul were to fight, would you accept the outcome and its implications if Vader beat him?

When Vader won, he would just claim Maul was out of his prime and that his TCW incarnation would have beaten him.

Originally posted by The_Tempest


He's got you there, quan. The best part is it was feeble old Palpy who pushed Maul's shit in, so will Vader even need his arms to beat Maul?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The best part is it was feeble old Palpy who pushed Maul's shit in, so will Vader even need his arms to beat Maul?

mmm

True.

Originally posted by Trocity
When Vader won, he would just claim Maul was out of his prime and that his TCW incarnation would have beaten him.


But he claims Vader is out of his prime as well, because he's a slow machine man now. So it's the same thing, so he has no valid excuse. He's just butt hurt.

So whether they're both in their Prime or both out of it, whether it's TCW or its Rebels, doesn't matter, because Anakin/Vader is > Maul regardless.

Who cares what Quan thinks? Let him cry in the corner with Kurk.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Oh thank god, the new canon isn't gonna be pulling some survivors from the Jedi Purge that pop up later after the Empire. Or at least I hope not, given Sam's words here, that the Jedi are fracking dead.

That annoyed the hell out of me in the old EU and made both Obi-Wan's and Yoda's commentary meaningless.

But anyway, that said, interesting find about the Maul V Vader thing. I thought it made it far more interesting, the fact that a lot of Jedi survived and it turned Vader into an even bigger bad-ass then he originally was.

Maul would fit this description by Witwer quite perfectly if they would cut out the deliberate shit of putting him into advantageous positions over inferior opposition, and then digging a plot hole for the hero party easier to slip through than a wormhole.

As in, if Maul is far better trained than you, and more powerful, and you're hanging off a cliff or just recently blinded via lightsaber, you're done for. You need to be saved, or one of the most powerful beings in the galaxy is going to finish you off, there and then, easily, because it is easy. That's what I would gauge as being the minimum amount of effort to put into writing these fight scenes before being called competent.

Fair enough for Maul being cocky in TPM, he was young, lacked the necessary experience to demonstrate humility, and spent the last couple decades being trained to utterly hate Jedi, his greatest enemy who it was his life's purpose to destroy; but you can't excuse him not learning his f*cking lesson for the following three decades in a row, one of those decades spent just thinking about the f*ck up in question. Not to mention he's a "classically trained Sith Lord" who is among the only last threats to Vader and Sidious, but is apparently incapable of exercising logic.

I like everything else they've done with him since TCW, and perhaps he'd be perfect if he was written in novel or comic format under Luceno's pen instead of in a cartoon, but the repetitive embarrassing outcomes that should have been easily avoided are inexcusable from a writing standpoint and prevent me from really taking Filoni and co. seriously in their direction of making Maul a 2nd tier villain in a galaxy filled with insanely lethal beings and creatures.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Maul is confirmed better than Ahsoka?
This should go without saying

Speaking of lethal beings, I hope we see more of those types too. The EU had plenty of those and they were pretty interesting.

Originally posted by ILS
Maul would fit this description by Witwer quite perfectly if they would cut out the deliberate shit of putting him into advantageous positions over inferior opposition, and then digging a plot hole for the hero party easier to slip through than a wormhole.

As in, if Maul is far better trained than you, and more powerful, and you're hanging off a cliff or just recently blinded via lightsaber, you're done for. You need to be saved, or one of the most powerful beings in the galaxy is going to finish you off, there and then, easily, because it is easy. That's what I would gauge as being the minimum amount of effort to put into writing these fight scenes before being called competent.

Fair enough for Maul being cocky in TPM, he was young, lacked the necessary experience to demonstrate humility, and spent the last couple decades being trained to utterly hate Jedi, his greatest enemy who it was his life's purpose to destroy; but you can't excuse him not learning his f*cking lesson for the following three decades in a row, one of those decades spent just thinking about the f*ck up in question. Not to mention he's a "classically trained Sith Lord" who is among the only last threats to Vader and Sidious, but is apparently incapable of exercising logic.

I like everything else they've done with him since TCW, and perhaps he'd be perfect if he was written in novel or comic format under Luceno's pen instead of in a cartoon, but the repetitive embarrassing outcomes that should have been easily avoided are inexcusable from a writing standpoint and prevent me from really taking Filoni and co. seriously in their direction of making Maul a 2nd tier villain in a galaxy filled with insanely lethal beings and creatures.

Amen

I'm with ILS. What Witwer said is fine but Stick to It. Witwer said Inquistitors won't come out well when they face Maul. How Kanan is a half trained Padawan and Maul a classically trained Sith. So SHOW THAT and don't make a f***ing Ass of Maul against Kanan in a 1v1 where all the advantages are with Maul.


But at least Witwer's words mean we can feel relatively safe that Maul won't be killed off by Kanan or Ezra.

Tbh the damage is done, it's too late they already ruined Maul. Only him defeating Vader can bring him back respect

Maul is becoming once again, another 'moustache twirling villain' like Dooku and Grievous :/

TCW never embarrassed Dooku like that.

Getting ambushed by pirates was the worst he got. But he was Ambushed and completely surrounded and caught without his Lightsaber.

But yeah Maul is to Rebels what Grievous was to TCW. Hopefully though he gets a level of comeback like Grievous did defeating Kenobi in that unfinished episode.

Debate's done, Sam Witwer basically said it himself, Vader>Maul.