Fernus vs. Superboy Prime

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backup
Fernus:

http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/3/34486/1360260-fernus01.jpg

Superboy Prime:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d3/6b/d1/d36bd1e4341562d1bcef10cab18d10f2.jpg

Rules:

1st round: Fernus (with tp) vs. Superboy Prime

2nd round: Fernus (without tp) vs. Superboy Prime

3nd round (bonus): Fernus (without tp) vs. Superboy Prime (solar armor)

Fight for death.

Who wins?

DarkSaint85
Fernus in all three. He was a psychic entity made flesh, IIRC.

IOW, unless SBP develops some mind powers, Round 1 has him crying in fear, and 2 and 3 with Fernus eventually wearing him down.

Zack M
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Fernus in all three. He was a psychic entity made flesh, IIRC.

IOW, unless SBP develops some mind powers, Round 1 has him crying in fear, and 2 and 3 with Fernus eventually wearing him down.

Kinda like Onslaught?

Digi
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Fernus in all three. He was a psychic entity made flesh, IIRC.

IOW, unless SBP develops some mind powers, Round 1 has him crying in fear, and 2 and 3 with Fernus eventually wearing him down.

That sounds great and all. But then Plastic Man stalemated him. I actually buy the telepathy argument. Without it, though...really?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Zack M
Kinda like Onslaught?

Except Onslaught had the weakness of having mass thrown at him, or whatever it was that made them all throw themselves in.

@Digi: HE was stalemating Eel. By that I mean, he was only tying the JLA up whilst the missiles were flying. I take your point though, he should've physically curbed him.

A massive high point for Eel, if anything. They were skyscraper sized, and were smashing through buildings.

Iirc, Fernus had giant holes blasted through him, and WW was ripping chunks off him with her lasso. He just healed from it. Hence the 'eventual' wearing down.

abhilegend
Prime oneshots him. Or vaporizes him with HV just like J'onn did.

Pillow Biter
As much as I am trying to respect this forum's approach--one that involves greater realism than the comics--, Superboy Prime is a cartoony character who is basically designed to circumvent realism. He punched through the fabric of space time!
Sure, like everyone, he has had some bad days. But he's had some very good ones. Seems like he dominates here, regardless of what Fernus is made of. I think he'd beat a pure energy being like Monica Rambeau, even. Somehow. Someway. I know that we don't debate that way for most characters, but SBP seems special in this respect. He'd probably just punch Monica in the face and she'd be KOed. WIth no explanation.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by abhilegend
Prime oneshots him. Or vaporizes him with HV just like J'onn did.

Superman cutting loose couldn't do so. Guess J'onn > Superman.

riv6672
^^^J'onn' always been > Superman.

OT i cant see SBP winning any of these scenarios. The guy is scared of Flashes, because the can and have, hurt him. Fernus would quickly undermjnd his confidence.

abhilegend
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Superman cutting loose couldn't do so. Guess J'onn > Superman.
Superman never tried to do that as he was giving Fernus a chance to stand down even in the last fight.

Even then he shattered his body in one punch.

abhilegend
Originally posted by riv6672
^^^J'onn' always been > Superman.

OT i cant see SBP winning any of these scenarios. The guy is scared of Flashes, because the can and have, hurt him. Fernus would quickly undermjnd his confidence.
Maybe in his dreams.

That's why he whines about how everyone forgets he is as powerful as Superman.

laughing out loud

riv6672
You may be right...you know more about whining than anyone on this site.

laughing

krisblaze
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Superman cutting loose couldn't do so. Guess J'onn > Superman.

This.

Prime is strong, but he can't match J'onn's unique powers and potential when cutting loose.

riv6672
Not in the way he needs to here.

Delta1938
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Superman cutting loose couldn't do so. Guess J'onn > Superman.

Superman burst right through Fernus. Almost everything Fernus did was either telepathy or off-panel. Except for his fight with Plas.

Originally posted by riv6672
^^^J'onn' always been > Superman.

OT i cant see SBP winning any of these scenarios. The guy is scared of Flashes, because the can and have, hurt him. Fernus would quickly undermjnd his confidence.

laughing hysterical crylaugh

No. J'onn wishes he were near Superman, let alone superior. You can go back to your Lala Fantasy Land with your "I don't have to defend my argument" mental gymnastics to avoid ever backing your case.

Just..... laughing

Surtur
I feel like J'onn is weaker than Superman physically. Though the guy is very strong and fast, he's not quite Superman level. But he makes up for that with his telepathy, phasing, and shape shifting. He carries a weakness to fire, so someone who can blast heat from their eyes and is faster presents a problem.

But I feel Superman can't beat Fernus. He left the dude phased into some table crying out in pain IIRC.

Though I also agree with Pillow Biter in that Prime has these wtf powers. He operates on a high level and I could of sworn telepathy was attempted and didn't work.

EcstaticGrace
Originally posted by Surtur
I feel like J'onn is weaker than Superman physically. Though the guy is very strong and fast, he's not quite Superman level. But he makes up for that with his telepathy, phasing, and shape shifting. He carries a weakness to fire, so someone who can blast heat from their eyes and is faster presents a problem.

But I feel Superman can't beat Fernus. He left the dude phased into some table crying out in pain IIRC.

Though I also agree with Pillow Biter in that Prime has these wtf powers. He operates on a high level and I could of sworn telepathy was attempted and didn't work.

On top of his versatility he can also amplify his strength by Shapeshifting and increasing his density. Some writers honestly suggest he's more powerful then Superman doesn't necessarily mean stronger since some suggest Flash is more powerful then everyone else at times as well.

DarkSaint85
aOriginally posted by Delta1938
Superman burst right through Fernus. Almost everything Fernus did was either telepathy or off-panel. Except for his fight with Plas.



laughing hysterical crylaugh

No. J'onn wishes he were near Superman, let alone superior. You can go back to your Lala Fantasy Land with your "I don't have to defend my argument" mental gymnastics to avoid ever backing your case.

Just..... laughing

And bursting through.....did absolutely jack to Fernus. He was literally stomping Superman into the ground. Even Plas did nothing really. Batman's Hail Mary play was only temporary.

http://i.imgur.com/jBfQ7xR.jpg

He didn't even care about the fight, and was only doing it to distract the League:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3042725-fernus4xb7.jpg

Not to mention, he still has the other powers a Martian has. Including intangibility:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/juggernaut666666/VsJla21.jpg

This is how a weaker Martian fights SBP WITH solar armour:
http://static.comicvine.com/api/image/original/2650414-1.png

If Fernus gets hit, its because he wants to get hit.

EcstaticGrace
I love when writers write J'onn as if he has common sense with his abilities.

quanchi112
Fernus owned the shit out of Superman.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by quanchi112
Fernus owned the shit out of Superman.


Wasn't even the first time. The second time they met, even with prep, the entire league was owned badly. The first time they met, he was tanking a bloodlusted WW's attacks.

The third time they met, Fernus even KOed Superman (note the second panel):
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/juggernaut666666/VsJla19.jpg.

As for abhi's earlier assertion that Superman was trying to talk him down, I can just as easily claim Superman was bloodlusted:

http://i.imgur.com/HEZwSKg.jpg

But wait, Abhi will claim that later on, Superman was telling him to stand down, and giving him one last chance!

But even LATER on, Superman himself says to leave NOTHING standing, and they all try to take FErnus apart, whilst Manitou/Major/Atom free him on the mental plane (something SBP cannot do). It does absolutely nothing. He's back, fully formed, a few panels later:

http://i.imgur.com/k6YfMIT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YC1MG9d.png

Edit: note the use of Superman's HV in the second to last panel. Directly after saying 'Leave nothing standing, people'. He was cutting loose. With his HV. And didn't do what J'onn did. Guess J'onn cutting loose > Superman cutting loose.

Pillow Biter
Fernus is not the same as MM. He is more powerful, IMO. And yes, Fernus AND MM were both more powerful than Superman under that writer. Kelly, I think. He writes an awesome Superman, but not an especially powerful one.
Kelly's Fernus and MM may exceed his Superman, but they don't necessarily exceed other writers' Superman depictions.
Of course this is Superboy Prime, who definitely exceeds Superman. The main problem is that even following the board's full capacity rules, and allowing for the fact that Fernus will use TP as much as is effective, it's pretty hard to gauge how TP will affect Superman or Superboy Prime. Again, using Superman as a reference, Fernus's TP is probably too much for Kelly's Superman (iirc), but Kelly's Superman isn't necessarily the benchmark for Superman's TP resistance. As for Superboy Prime, I don't recall TP being used on him. But there was ample opportunity for it to be used. But I realize that could just be PIS, rather than the characters legitimately considering it and rejecting it because they thought it wouldn't work. OTOH, using the full capacity rule, imagine Prime using his speed all the time.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Pillow Biter
Fernus is not the same as MM. He is more powerful, IMO. And yes, Fernus AND MM were both more powerful than Superman under that writer. Kelly, I think. He writes an awesome Superman, but not an especially powerful one.
Kelly's Fernus and MM may exceed his Superman, but they don't necessarily exceed other writers' Superman depictions.
Of course this is Superboy Prime, who definitely exceeds Superman. The main problem is that even following the board's full capacity rules, and allowing for the fact that Fernus will use TP as much as is effective, it's pretty hard to gauge how TP will affect Superman or Superboy Prime. Again, using Superman as a reference, Fernus's TP is probably too much for Kelly's Superman (iirc), but Kelly's Superman isn't necessarily the benchmark for Superman's TP resistance. As for Superboy Prime, I don't recall TP being used on him. But there was ample opportunity for it to be used. But I realize that could just be PIS, rather than the characters legitimately considering it and rejecting it because they thought it wouldn't work. OTOH, using the full capacity rule, imagine Prime using his speed all the time.

I don't subscribe to different writers' Supermen being different. Superman is Superman, Loeb's Supes is the same as Kelly's etc. More importantly, he's the same as what I use in the forum fight.

Fernus' TP against Superman? Took him seconds to mindrape him whilst simultaneously attacking the rest of the League (and Krypto). Despite them being ready for Fernus.
http://static7.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/126197/2568975-2319336_jla__87_pg02_super.jpg

Now, SBP against telepathy? With his speed? Fernus was taking Flash, Superman and WW out, again, simultaneously. Their reaction feats stack up pretty well against SBP. Wally has his greatest speed feat in that exact same story arc, with that Korean city (if we want to play the writer game). He was unable to react to Fernus, who was able to hide from them.

Edit: In addition, SBP has a mass of psychological weaknesses. Flashes, darkness, his gf /earth dying....all of which can be exploited by Fernus. Who exploited John's memories:
http://i.imgur.com/zxVgDO9.png

In summary: Fernus has the powers - but more importantly, he has USED them in the manner I am postulating. He mindrapes, uses your memories, can heal from incredible physical damage, and can deal it out as well.

riv6672
Originally posted by Delta1938
Superman burst right through Fernus. Almost everything Fernus did was either telepathy or off-panel. Except for his fight with Plas.



laughing hysterical crylaugh

No. J'onn wishes he were near Superman, let alone superior. You can go back to your Lala Fantasy Land with your "I don't have to defend my argument" mental gymnastics to avoid ever backing your case.

Just..... laughing

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
a

And bursting through.....did absolutely jack to Fernus. He was literally stomping Superman into the ground. Even Plas did nothing really. Batman's Hail Mary play was only temporary.

http://i.imgur.com/jBfQ7xR.jpg

He didn't even care about the fight, and was only doing it to distract the League:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3042725-fernus4xb7.jpg

Not to mention, he still has the other powers a Martian has. Including intangibility:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/juggernaut666666/VsJla21.jpg

This is how a weaker Martian fights SBP WITH solar armour:
http://static.comicvine.com/api/image/original/2650414-1.png

If Fernus gets hit, its because he wants to get hit.



Hey we all get our laughs where we can.

Galan007
Originally posted by Surtur
Though I also agree with Pillow Biter in that Prime has these wtf powers. He operates on a high level and I could of sworn telepathy was attempted and didn't work. The only time I recall TP explicitly being used against Prime was when J'onn used it to read his mind:
http://i.imgur.com/zXysN0s.jpg

Pillow Biter
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I don't subscribe to different writers' Supermen being different. Superman is Superman, Loeb's Supes is the same as Kelly's etc.

There's only one Superman, but you can't just rely on one writer's take to decide how powerful he is. Kelly writes a Superman who is roughly equal to other top tiers at DC, and less powerful than MM. Kelly is also the only writer of Fernus, who he depicts as more powerful than Superman. So that's our only direct, head to head data point. But that's still not our only data point. You have to factor in the indirect evidence.

Fernus exceeding Kelly's rather weak Superman (at least in those arcs) doesn't mean he'd exceed portrayals of Superman who can beat down on MM and other top tiers at the same time.

There is only one Superman, but no one writer gets the right to definitively peg his power level.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Pillow Biter
There's only one Superman, but you can't just rely on one writer's take to decide how powerful he is. Kelly writes a Superman who is roughly equal to other top tiers at DC, and less powerful than MM. Kelly is also the only writer of Fernus, who he depicts as more powerful than Superman. So that's our only direct, head to head data point. But that's still not our only data point. You have to factor in the indirect evidence.

Fernus exceeding Kelly's rather weak Superman (at least in those arcs) doesn't mean he'd exceed portrayals of Superman who can beat down on MM and other top tiers at the same time.

There is only one Superman, but no one writer gets the right to definitively peg his power level.

True - but indirect data points can become extremely murky to untangle. Deathstroke has tangled with some writers' interpretations of Flash, who has taken on Death in other interpretations etc etc.

I generally prefer to use head to head comparisons. Under Kelly, Flash evacuated those 500,000 civilians from the N Korean city. A reaction feat that puts SBP's in the pale. He was still unable to outspeed Fernus.

So far, the only argument I have realistically seen for SBP is either 'he finds a way', or Abhi's assertions. Neither of which really have much stacking up for it.

Delta1938
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
a

And bursting through.....did absolutely jack to Fernus. He was literally stomping Superman into the ground. Even Plas did nothing really. Batman's Hail Mary play was only temporary.

http://i.imgur.com/jBfQ7xR.jpg

He didn't even care about the fight, and was only doing it to distract the League:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3042725-fernus4xb7.jpg

Not to mention, he still has the other powers a Martian has. Including intangibility:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/juggernaut666666/VsJla21.jpg

This is how a weaker Martian fights SBP WITH solar armour:
http://static.comicvine.com/api/image/original/2650414-1.png

If Fernus gets hit, its because he wants to get hit.

That time, but Fernus eventually gets destroyed after being manhandled by J'onn. Did he tire out? Was it J'onn coming out? We don't know. The only other thing we have to gauge is the Burning Martian that Vandal Savage fought.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wasn't even the first time. The second time they met, even with prep, the entire league was owned badly. The first time they met, he was tanking a bloodlusted WW's attacks.

The third time they met, Fernus even KOed Superman (note the second panel):
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/juggernaut666666/VsJla19.jpg.

As for abhi's earlier assertion that Superman was trying to talk him down, I can just as easily claim Superman was bloodlusted:

http://i.imgur.com/HEZwSKg.jpg

But wait, Abhi will claim that later on, Superman was telling him to stand down, and giving him one last chance!

But even LATER on, Superman himself says to leave NOTHING standing, and they all try to take FErnus apart, whilst Manitou/Major/Atom free him on the mental plane (something SBP cannot do). It does absolutely nothing. He's back, fully formed, a few panels later:

http://i.imgur.com/k6YfMIT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YC1MG9d.png

Edit: note the use of Superman's HV in the second to last panel. Directly after saying 'Leave nothing standing, people'. He was cutting loose. With his HV. And didn't do what J'onn did. Guess J'onn cutting loose > Superman cutting loose.

Between controlling Krypto and Superman and Wonder Woman's words, it's looking like telepathy played heavily into that second encounter.

Delta1938
Originally posted by riv6672
Hey we all get our laughs where we can.

So what exactly does me laughing at you saying J'onn>Superman have to do with DarkSaint's posts for Fernus? Unless you ignore Fernus and J'onn weren't the same being, that is.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Delta1938
That time, but Fernus eventually gets destroyed after being manhandled by J'onn. Did he tire out? Was it J'onn coming out? We don't know. The only other thing we have to gauge is the Burning Martian that Vandal Savage fought.



Between controlling Krypto and Superman and Wonder Woman's words, it's looking like telepathy played heavily into that second encounter.

That Martian was already dying, IIRC. But the circumstances of Fernus' defeat, wasn't the JLA's physical destruction of his body. It was also MM taking back control, which SBP cannot replicate.

I think it's TP/TK too (Superman is spinning like a top there), but my post was in reply to quan. I guess, indirectly, to Pillow too. That even when the JLA were ready and prepped for Fernus, he still tooled them, showing his reflexes are pretty top-notch.

Delta1938
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That Martian was already dying, IIRC. But the circumstances of Fernus' defeat, wasn't the JLA's physical destruction of his body. It was also MM taking back control, which SBP cannot replicate.

I think it's TP/TK too (Superman is spinning like a top there), but my post was in reply to quan. I guess, indirectly, to Pillow too. That even when the JLA were ready and prepped for Fernus, he still tooled them, showing his reflexes are pretty top-notch.

Yeah, he was injured.....by the ship crash. eek! And he took back control of I believe it was his own "psychic realm" but not sure if that had to do with Fernus losing control of himself. It was weird, as J'onn came when Fernus was trying to spawn.

Didn't say he only used telepathy.

quanchi112
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wasn't even the first time. The second time they met, even with prep, the entire league was owned badly. The first time they met, he was tanking a bloodlusted WW's attacks.

The third time they met, Fernus even KOed Superman (note the second panel):
//i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/juggernaut666666/VsJla19.jp

As for abhi's earlier assertion that Superman was trying to talk him down, I can just as easily claim Superman was bloodlusted:



But wait, Abhi will claim that later on, Superman was telling him to stand down, and giving him one last chance!

But even LATER on, Superman himself says to leave NOTHING standing, and they all try to take FErnus apart, whilst Manitou/Major/Atom free him on the mental plane (something SBP cannot do). It does absolutely nothing. He's back, fully formed, a few panels later:

http://i.imgur.com/k6YfMIT.jp
http://i.imgur.com/YC1MG9d.png

Edit: note the use of Superman's HV in the second to last panel. Directly after saying 'Leave nothing standing, people'. He was cutting loose. With his HV. And didn't do what J'onn did. Guess J'onn cutting loose > Superman cutting loose. It is safe to say Superman is not much when compared to Fernus which makes complete sense.

Fernus>>Superman.

thumb up

carver9
Fernus stomps.

abhilegend
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
a

And bursting through.....did absolutely jack to Fernus. He was literally stomping Superman into the ground. Even Plas did nothing really. Batman's Hail Mary play was only temporary.

http://i.imgur.com/jBfQ7xR.jpg

He was affecting everyone with TP. Without TP in play even John Stewart kicked his ass.
http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29216428_JLA_87_pg06.jpg
http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29216426_JLA_87_pg05.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29216430_JLA_87_pg07.jpg



That would've come so handy when J'onn vaporized his ass.

http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29216432_JLA_89_pg18.jpg

If you are going to argue Martian Vision is more powerful than HV, I'm gonna laugh at your face.

Or the Guardians defeated entire White Martians race.

http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29216431_JLA_87_pg13.jpg



Yes, because that's all the time J'onn fight SBP. Let's look, shall we?

Fight 1. Oneshotted.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/29216447/Infinite_Crisis_03_page_30_31.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/29216448/Infinite_Crisis_03_page_32.jpg.html

Fight two. Again oneshotted.

http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29216498_p6_22_copy.jpg

Just after that "One Punch" J'onn fans so like to throw around.

Heck, even Superboy took more damage than that.

http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29216500_p6_29_copy.jpg

Fight 3.

A depowered SBP manhandled the shit out of J'onn like he was his personal whore.

http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29216501_7198636.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29216503_1288057.jpg



Or SBP can use his faster than Wally West level speed to blitz Fernus and vaporize his ass. After all the characters are at full capacity.

http://i.imgur.com/hlVL6IR.png

Right?

Galan007
Originally posted by abhilegend
Or SBP can use his faster than Wally West level speed to blitz Fernus and vaporize his ass. After all the characters are at full capacity.

http://i.imgur.com/hlVL6IR.png This scene has always blown me away, as it implies that Wally would have to absorb the entire Speed Force just to outrace Superboy. ohhh

abhilegend
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wasn't even the first time. The second time they met, even with prep, the entire league was owned badly. The first time they met, he was tanking a bloodlusted WW's attacks.

The third time they met, Fernus even KOed Superman (note the second panel):
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/juggernaut666666/VsJla19.jpg.

As for abhi's earlier assertion that Superman was trying to talk him down, I can just as easily claim Superman was bloodlusted:

http://i.imgur.com/HEZwSKg.jpg

But wait, Abhi will claim that later on, Superman was telling him to stand down, and giving him one last chance!

But even LATER on, Superman himself says to leave NOTHING standing, and they all try to take FErnus apart, whilst Manitou/Major/Atom free him on the mental plane (something SBP cannot do). It does absolutely nothing. He's back, fully formed, a few panels later:

http://i.imgur.com/k6YfMIT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YC1MG9d.png

Edit: note the use of Superman's HV in the second to last panel. Directly after saying 'Leave nothing standing, people'. He was cutting loose. With his HV. And didn't do what J'onn did. Guess J'onn cutting loose > Superman cutting loose.
Under Kelly, even J'onn was able to reform after getting sliced into little pieces. Fernus wasn't anything special in that regard.

http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/29216589_JLA_62_pg05.jpg

Yet, SBP treated J'onn like a joke everytime they met.Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That Martian was already dying, IIRC. But the circumstances of Fernus' defeat, wasn't the JLA's physical destruction of his body. It was also MM taking back control, which SBP cannot replicate.

I think it's TP/TK too (Superman is spinning like a top there), but my post was in reply to quan. I guess, indirectly, to Pillow too. That even when the JLA were ready and prepped for Fernus, he still tooled them, showing his reflexes are pretty top-notch.
J'onn didn't take control of his body. He created a second body. And as soon as the fire which was amping Fernus were put out, J'onn vaporized him completely.

There is no fire to amp him here.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Galan007
This scene has always blown me away, as it implies that Wally would have to absorb the entire Speed Force just to outrace Superboy. ohhh
Yeah, how weak of Wally to lose to SBP!!

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by abhilegend
Under Kelly, even J'onn was able to reform after getting sliced into little pieces. Fernus wasn't anything special in that regard.

Yet, SBP treated J'onn like a joke everytime they met.
J'onn didn't take control of his body. He created a second body. And as soon as the fire which was amping Fernus were put out, J'onn vaporized him completely.

There is no fire to amp him here.

Never said he was special. I said Superman was not holding back, and despite the entire League not holding back, was unable to put him down (unlike J'onn, who did).

Fernus treated Supes like a joke, J'onn is not Fernus (as you have said before) and Superman is not SBP.

No fire to amp him? I thought SBP was going to use his HV? That.....creates heat, which sets fire to things, no?

abhilegend
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Never said he was special. I said Superman was not holding back, and despite the entire League not holding back, was unable to put him down (unlike J'onn, who did).

Because he was amped by the fire. Did you read the story or just looked at the respect thread on comicvine.



Because of TP. Not through strength or power.



Nice try. So does Martian Vision. Yet, J'onn vaporized him easily with it.

riv6672
Originally posted by Delta1938
So what exactly does me laughing at you saying J'onn>Superman have to do with DarkSaint's posts for Fernus? Unless you ignore Fernus and J'onn weren't the same being, that is.
The current cost of tea in China depends on several variables including the type of tea and worldwide demand for it.

DarkSaint85
Martian Vision is not HV, so moot point. Superman, cutting loose with HV, didn't do anything lasting (despite your claims he was holding back).

You were the one claiming there will be no heat around to boost Fernus. And yet, you're also claiming SBP will use his HV like Martian Vision (two different things), and do what Supes could not.
I posted a scan of him literally stomping Superman into the ground. Please show where TP is being used.

Yes, I read the story. Please, show me the latest statement by Superman where he was still holding back. I guess you will ignore this statement and try and handwave it away?

abhilegend
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Martian Vision is not HV, so moot point. Superman, cutting loose with HV, didn't do anything lasting (despite your claims he was holding back).

He was fighting Fernus when he was amping from fire provided by Scorch and the nuke.

Here he doesn't has that.




SBP is a lot more powerful than both Superman and J'onn combined.



Yes, because he was in giant form and knocked Superman down. Plastic Man restrained him in that form.

Are you going to claim Plastic Man is stronger than Superman and SBP now?



Superman has said it several times that he is going to stop holding back.

And then he actually stops holding back and stomps everyone around. Like say Doomsday. Or Imperiex Probes.

But hey, J'onn is more powerful than SBP. That is your whole point is, right?

Or Fernus will never get hit. Right?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by abhilegend
He was fighting Fernus when he was amping from fire provided by Scorch and the nuke.

Here he doesn't has that.

True, he doesn't have that, BUT, he is facing a guy who's HV is:


Right?

So which is it? SBP will use HV (more powerful than J'onn and Supes combined, no less!) and it won't give off....any heat to amp him?


He was toying with them, and stalling until the nuke could hit Chongqing. Afterwards, PM couldn't hold him:

http://i.imgur.com/VuWjcct.jpg

Btw, please show where the nuke amped his strength/durability levels. All it did was provide energy for the spawning, nothing more, nothing less.


Post the scan where he is restraining him. Here, WW AND Plas aren't able to restrain him from smacking Superman and literally stomping his face into the ground:
http://i.imgur.com/mD20EmE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jBfQ7xR.jpg



Got ya. So when Superman says he's holding back,m he's holding back, but when he's NOT holding back, he's holding back?

I mean, what more did you think Superman could do? He blew Fernus apart, and was leaving nothing standing. what else could he have done, Torquasm-Vo'd his ass? He only had physical attacks, and all it did was a big lot of nothing, and left even Batman without a battle plan.

My point is that physical attacks alone as thrown out by SBP will not work. In a benchpressing contest, SBP all day long.

But not here. Certainly not in Round 1, and not in Rounds 2 and 3. SBP will blow him up, and he will reform.

riv6672
In abhi's world this is all Superman ever does.



Seriously, his mind isnt going to be changed here; abhi only has one opinion of Superman, so any attempt at debate is just one sided.

abhilegend
Originally posted by DarkSaint85


True, he doesn't have that, BUT, he is facing a guy who's HV is:



Heat vision isn't fire vision. When SBP oneshotted J'onn with it, he didn't set him on fire.

It's just a stretch he will start a fire here.

Is Fernus doused with Gasoline here?

Heat doesn't amps Fernus, Fire does.

Martian vision just heats things too. J'onn and Superman have caused sun level heat combined.

Yet, it didn't amp Fernus.


Ah, the old "stalling."

It's not like the nuke created a lot more fire and Fernus amped on it.

No, he was just stalling and getting himself smacked around.

You go girl.

The burning Martians amped themselves on fire. That's why when he was submerged in water, he became completely helpless.

But hey, let's ignore that, eh?



Hey guy, even in the same scan he shrinks down to normal size after Scorch absorbs all that fire.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3042725-fernus4xb7.jpg

But let's ignore that too, eh?



I don't know man, dousing out the fire and disintegrating him worked just fine.

And Superman has mental blocks. He can't kill a being even if he tries.



Disintegrating him works just fine.

Unless J'onn has disintegrating vision that only he has.



If he has fire to amp him up.

And Guardians knocked Burning Martians out without blowing them up too.

Where is the fire to amp him here?

spetznaz
Originally posted by abhilegend
Heat vision isn't fire vision. When SBP oneshotted J'onn with it, he didn't set him on fire.

It's just a stretch he will start a fire here.

Is Fernus doused with Gasoline here?

Heat doesn't amps Fernus, Fire does.

Martian vision just heats things too. J'onn and Superman have caused sun level heat combined.

Yet, it didn't amp Fernus.


Ah, the old "stalling."

It's not like the nuke created a lot more fire and Fernus amped on it.

No, he was just stalling and getting himself smacked around.

You go girl.

The burning Martians amped themselves on fire. That's why when he was submerged in water, he became completely helpless.

But hey, let's ignore that, eh?



Hey guy, even in the same scan he shrinks down to normal size after Scorch absorbs all that fire.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3042725-fernus4xb7.jpg

But let's ignore that too, eh?



I don't know man, dousing out the fire and disintegrating him worked just fine.

And Superman has mental blocks. He can't kill a being even if he tries.



Disintegrating him works just fine.

Unless J'onn has disintegrating vision that only he has.



If he has fire to amp him up.

And Guardians knocked Burning Martians out without blowing them up too.

Where is the fire to amp him here?

I take it you never read the book. Why? Because fire does not amp up burning Martians - all it does is enable them to spawn. They give birth via flame, and the purpose of the fire was simply to enable Fernus to give birth to others like him. There was no 'amping' of any sort.

riv6672
Nowhere in that story does it mention amping.

carver9
Originally posted by riv6672
In abhi's world this is all Superman ever does.



Seriously, his mind isnt going to be changed here; abhi only has one opinion of Superman, so any attempt at debate is just one sided.

The only time Superman isn't holding back is when he has a high ft. Otherwise, he's holding back.

riv6672
Originally posted by carver9
The only time Superman isn't holding back is when he has a high ft. Otherwise, he's holding back.
All his high ft.s are accomplished "while weakened" though. Thats a must.

abhilegend
Originally posted by spetznaz
I take it you never read the book. Why? Because fire does not amp up burning Martians - all it does is enable them to spawn. They give birth via flame, and the purpose of the fire was simply to enable Fernus to give birth to others like him. There was no 'amping' of any sort.
I get that you haven't read the comic.

But please explain why Fernus became completely helpless once submerged in water and why Fire was the fuel which gave them energy enough to reproduce?

riv6672
Thats not an amp.

carver9
Originally posted by riv6672
Thats not an amp.

Nope, it isn't.

spetznaz
Originally posted by abhilegend
I get that you haven't read the comic.

But please explain why Fernus became completely helpless once submerged in water and why Fire was the fuel which gave them energy enough to reproduce?

Not only have I read the comic, it is one of my favourite ones as it presents a very enjoyable narrative.

But to answer your questions - fire being the 'fuel' that enables him to reproduce does not equal an amp. As for the water (as well as the earlier scene of his imp girlfriend holding back the flames), that was simply to ensure that he did not reproduce. As clearly stated, even though the JLA had managed to stop the nuclear Armageddon that would have spawned many burning Martians, there was still enough flame for 'at least one.' And considering the crap Fernus had given the team, even one extra burning Martian would have been too much.

To sum it up:
- Fire and suffering is what leads to burning Martians reproducing.
- All Martians - green and white - have the ability to become burning Martians, which are their real form. The reason they are afraid of fire is because of genetic tampering done to them by the Guardians of Oa due to the threat they saw the burning Martians could be. As said several times, that's why there is the irony of someone as powerful as Jjon being afraid of a matchstick.
- when Jjon's imp girlfriend helped him overcome his innate fear of flame, that triggered a loosening of the genetic (not just mental - genetic) blocks that kept the burning locked up, and Fernus was birthed.

Anyway - you might be correct on one thing. I have not read the version YOU read where fire amps up burning Martians, and from other comments on the site it appears that others have also not read YOUR version. Thus it appears two variants of the same book - your version where fire is an amp, and the version everyone else has read where it is not.

quanchi112
Originally posted by spetznaz
I take it you never read the book. Why? Because fire does not amp up burning Martians - all it does is enable them to spawn. They give birth via flame, and the purpose of the fire was simply to enable Fernus to give birth to others like him. There was no 'amping' of any sort. thumb up

Ps. I still despise you.

quanchi112
Originally posted by riv6672
Nowhere in that story does it mention amping. Abhi is really upset Fernus raped Superman. The only way he can cope with such a brutal beat down is for his brain to rationalize this traumatic moment as an amp. The obvious is just that Fernus is just that much more dangerous/powerful/formidable than Superman.

Delta1938
Originally posted by riv6672
The current cost of tea in China depends on several variables including the type of tea and worldwide demand for it.

Concessions accepted.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Martian Vision is not HV, so moot point.

Actually, it has been called "heat vision."

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/th_JLA_YEAR-ONE5-PG18.jpg

And treated as much as well, here where J'onn heats-up guns to make people drop them(something Superman has done on many occasions).

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/th_JLA_YEAR-ONE1-PG26.jpg

Or where it was called "LASER Vision" and J'onn baked Clayface.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/th_JLA_YEAR-ONE2-PG17.jpg

Sometimes writers treat it differently, but I don't know how often they actually do.

quanchi112
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Never said he was special. I said Superman was not holding back, and despite the entire League not holding back, was unable to put him down (unlike J'onn, who did).

Fernus treated Supes like a joke, J'onn is not Fernus (as you have said before) and Superman is not SBP.

No fire to amp him? I thought SBP was going to use his HV? That.....creates heat, which sets fire to things, no? thumb up

It doesn't matter any which way you slice it. Fernus and his power set>>>>Superman's on panel and definitively so. Superman fans trying to create some sort of hey he used tp doesn't matter as it proves he can rape him whenever he wants to. Other examples outside the arc have nothing to do with how these characters have matched up directly on panel. Fernus' power>>>Superman's. Logically it makes sense as well as an on panel confirmation.

Direct Scans>>>>> their arguments.

quanchi112
Originally posted by riv6672
In abhi's world this is all Superman ever does.



Seriously, his mind isnt going to be changed here; abhi only has one opinion of Superman, so any attempt at debate is just one sided. thumb up

spetznaz
Originally posted by quanchi112
thumb up

Ps. I still despise you.

laughing

carver9
Originally posted by quanchi112
thumb up

It doesn't matter any which way you slice it. Fernus and his power set>>>>Superman's on panel and definitively so. Superman fans trying to create some sort of hey he used tp doesn't matter as it proves he can rape him whenever he wants to. Other examples outside the arc have nothing to do with how these characters have matched up directly on panel. Fernus' power>>>Superman's. Logically it makes sense as well as an on panel confirmation.

Direct Scans>>>>> their arguments.

thumb up

Finally, he's back.

quanchi112
Originally posted by carver9
thumb up

Finally, he's back.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111122518/4198622-1413326905-tumbl.gif

carver9
Sigh

quanchi112
Originally posted by carver9
Sigh Evolve or perish.

abhilegend
Originally posted by spetznaz
Not only have I read the comic, it is one of my favourite ones as it presents a very enjoyable narrative.


As if I haven't get that from Carver everytime.



Yes, fire is the fuel which provides him energy AND psychic trauma gives him means to reproduce.

Without Scorch suffering trauma, he had all that power supplied by the fire.

Did you think Fernus can just produce J'onn from his own body and keep his power at the same level?



Suffering causes then to reproduce. Fire provides the necessary energy. Which is an amp until he reproduces.

Simple logic actually.

That's not even remotely true. J'onn and Fernus were two different beings with different DNA, different souls and everything which differences two species.

When a Martian removes those genetic blocks, he gives birth to a burning Martian which is the genetic memory of all the previous burning Martians.

It seems like you don't even comprehend your favorite story.



Maybe you should read the story again for the story and not feats.

Because it seems you've never actually comprehended the story.

Sad actually if what you said is true.

riv6672
Honestly, there were no amps.

carver9
Originally posted by quanchi112
Evolve or perish.

You have devolved using all of these gifs.

quanchi112
Originally posted by carver9
You have devolved using all of these gifs. Evolved. It's like saying carver you changed when you realized how to use scans. Please just shut up and let me do the talking around here.

riv6672
Whelp, this one's about done. erm

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