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Dick of Steel or Team Boobs?

Superman

You need to describe in detail what happens.

Before Pr closes this thread for not being PG-13.

Boobs

Team Boobs.

Something something team booty.

And no, not Superman's.

the girls take him more often than not for sure.

They can't really match his high-end, dynamic power portrayals. But they do beat him on a typical day.
And it remains an open question why Superman seems to be the only Kryptonian that can really Hulk-out. In theory, Peege should be able to do so as well, but she doesn't.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
They can't really match his high-end, dynamic power portrayals. But they do beat him on a typical day.
And it remains an open question why Superman seems to be the only Kryptonian that can really Hulk-out. In theory, Peege should be able to do so as well, but she doesn't. Superman does not hulk-out. He's been on earth absorbing sunlight far far long than thte others and has had far far longer mastering his powers. Girls win.

Originally posted by JBL
Superman does not hulk-out. He's been on earth absorbing sunlight far far long than thte others and has had far far longer mastering his powers. Girls win.

Do you just go into every Superman related topic so you can scream he doesn't have dynamic powers despite the comics prove you wrong and you're afraid to BZ it?

Also, Superman wins. He's beaten more powerful teams, matched more powerful teams, ect.

Originally posted by JBL
Superman does not hulk-out. He's been on earth absorbing sunlight far far long than thte others and has had far far longer mastering his powers. Girls win.

This. He wishes he was the Hulk. Anyways, the girls stomps.

Originally posted by carver9
This. He wishes he was the Hulk. Anyways, the girls stomps.

Then how about you take-up my BZ challenge Coward9?

Originally posted by JBL
Superman does not hulk-out. He's been on earth absorbing sunlight far far long than thte others and has had far far longer mastering his powers. Girls win.

Hulk envy.

Originally posted by carver9
This. He wishes he was the Hulk. Anyways, the girls stomps. The girls do whip his ass. They simply overwhelm him.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Then how about you take-up my BZ challenge Coward9?

Why would I battle zone someone who wouldn't answer my questions.

Originally posted by carver9
Why would I battle zone someone who wouldn't answer my questions.

Originally posted by carver9
Why would I battle zone someone who wouldn't answer my questions.

You say I won't answer your questions and yet you consistently dodge questions? And if you mean about the challenge, you know you're just playing dumb, that I've told you multiple times but you ask in hopes of changing things, because you don't want to take the challenge.

Superman oneshots them both.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Do you just go into every Superman related topic so you can scream he doesn't have dynamic powers despite the comics prove you wrong and you're afraid to BZ it?

Also, Superman wins. He's beaten more powerful teams, matched more powerful teams, ect. He doesn't have dynamic powers or the writers would not waste their time writing something like oh, captain marvel and superman arm wrestling to see who's stronger. Now if the writer knew superman had dynamic strength, why would ALL of them agree that those two are close in strength? Why would they waste fans time having him fight and struggle with Black Adam if he had dynamic strength?? Captain Marvel knows superman. Why would he waste his time trying to See whose stronger if superman had dynamic strength?? Again, why would the writers waste fans time?? I don't Care what mindset superman is in, he has and always will be close in strength with marvel and Adam. Just because he's allowed to win as ALL Heroes do, does not mean he has dynamic strength, he had hero save the day strength like every other hero. Hulk has dynamic strength not superman. Captain Marvel or black Adam. You want him to have dynamic strength so you can say. A unrestrained non holding back superman is this or that. Tuff **** dude, superman CM and BA was, is and will always be in the same strength class period. Get over it.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Do you just go into every Superman related topic so you can scream he doesn't have dynamic powers despite the comics prove you wrong and you're afraid to BZ it?

Also, Superman wins. He's beaten more powerful teams, matched more powerful teams, ect. He doesn't have dynamic powers or the writers would not waste their time writing something like oh, captain marvel and superman arm wrestling to see who's stronger. Now if the writer knew superman had dynamic strength, why would ALL of them agree that those two are close in strength? Why would they waste fans time having him fight and struggle with Black Adam if he had dynamic strength?? Captain Marvel knows superman. Why would he waste his time trying to See whose stronger if superman had dynamic strength?? Again, why would the writers waste fans time?? I don't Care what mindset superman is in, he has and always will be close in strength with marvel and Adam. Just because he's allowed to win as ALL Heroes do, does not mean he has dynamic strength, he had hero save the day strength like every other hero. Hulk has dynamic strength not superman. Captain Marvel or black Adam. You want him to have dynamic strength so you can say. A unrestrained non holding back superman is this or that. Tuff **** dude, superman CM and BA was, is and will always be in the same strength class period or a fight between them would be pointless. Get ov it.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Do you just go into every Superman related topic so you can scream he doesn't have dynamic powers despite the comics prove you wrong and you're afraid to BZ it?

Also, Superman wins. He's beaten more powerful teams, matched more powerful teams, ect. He doesn't have dynamic powers or the writers would not waste their time writing something like oh, captain marvel and superman arm wrestling to see who's stronger. Now if the writer knew superman had dynamic strength, why would ALL of them agree that those two are close in strength? Why would they waste fans time having him fight and struggle with Black Adam if he had dynamic strength?? Captain Marvel knows superman. Why would he waste his time trying to See whose stronger if superman had dynamic strength?? Again, why would the writers waste fans time?? I don't Care what mindset superman is in, he has and always will be close in strength with marvel and Adam. Just because he's allowed to win as ALL Heroes do, does not mean he has dynamic strength, he had hero save the day strength like every other hero. Hulk has dynamic strength not superman. Captain Marvel or black Adam. You want him to have dynamic strength so you can say. A unrestrained non holding back superman is this or that. Tuff **** dude, superman CM and BA was, is and will always be in the same strength class period or a fight between them would be pointless. Get over it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman
Damn, that was a 3 minute response time.
I swear you must have this site rigged with an alarm bell for Superman threads...

OT, Team for a slight majority.

That should be enough to open your eyes or do you need a fourth dose of reality?

Originally posted by JBL
He doesn't have dynamic powers or the writers would not waste their time writing something like oh, captain marvel and superman arm wrestling to see who's stronger. Now if the writer knew superman had dynamic strength, why would ALL of them agree that those two are close in strength? Why would they waste fans time having him fight and struggle with Black Adam if he had dynamic strength?? Captain Marvel knows superman. Why would he waste his time trying to See whose stronger if superman had dynamic strength?? Again, why would the writers waste fans time?? I don't Care what mindset superman is in, he has and always will be close in strength with marvel and Adam. Just because he's allowed to win as ALL Heroes do, does not mean he has dynamic strength, he had hero save the day strength like every other hero. Hulk has dynamic strength not superman. Captain Marvel or black Adam. You want him to have dynamic strength so you can say. A unrestrained non holding back superman is this or that. Tuff **** dude, superman CM and BA was, is and will always be in the same strength class period. Get over it. Originally posted by JBL
He doesn't have dynamic powers or the writers would not waste their time writing something like oh, captain marvel and superman arm wrestling to see who's stronger. Now if the writer knew superman had dynamic strength, why would ALL of them agree that those two are close in strength? Why would they waste fans time having him fight and struggle with Black Adam if he had dynamic strength?? Captain Marvel knows superman. Why would he waste his time trying to See whose stronger if superman had dynamic strength?? Again, why would the writers waste fans time?? I don't Care what mindset superman is in, he has and always will be close in strength with marvel and Adam. Just because he's allowed to win as ALL Heroes do, does not mean he has dynamic strength, he had hero save the day strength like every other hero. Hulk has dynamic strength not superman. Captain Marvel or black Adam. You want him to have dynamic strength so you can say. A unrestrained non holding back superman is this or that. Tuff **** dude, superman CM and BA was, is and will always be in the same strength class period or a fight between them would be pointless. Get ov it.
Thor has looked close to Hulk in strength for decades.

That's it, Hulk doesn't has dynamic strength.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Thor has looked close to Hulk in strength for decades.

That's it, Hulk doesn't has dynamic strength.

The angrier hulk gets , the stronger hulk gets, well documented in hundreds of comics. The angrier superman gets the..... Finish it abhil and document it please?????

Originally posted by JBL
The angrier hulk gets , the stronger hulk gets, well documented in hundreds of comics. The angrier superman gets the..... Finish it abhil and document it please?????
The more solar energy he absorbs and stronger he gets.

But hey, Thor stalemated him in a test of Strength for am hour. Surely that means Hulk doesn't has dynamic strength, right?

Originally posted by abhilegend
The more solar energy he absorbs and stronger he gets.

But hey, Thor stalemated him in a test of Strength for am hour. Surely that means Hulk doesn't has dynamic strength, right? I thought he had mental blocks?? Solar energy is his power source, that's not dynamic strength of a outside force is needed. Why don't he just turn off his mental blocks since he so-called turned them on one day in his fans mind? He could have won the arm wrestling match against marvel right? I mean that's the reason he loses fights right? Mental blocks gets his azz handed to him right? He could fight Kurse in a fist fight and drop his mental blocks and, and...... and??... and??... AND get his behind curb stomped. Now hulk could fight Kurse and Kurse better take h out quickly or we all know what would happen right? And please don't bring up that owaw drug induced to writer story. We all know what OWAW stands for... Oh... Wow! ....Abhil ....Worships... Superman.

Wonder woman throws him into an exploding gas station 10/10

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
They can't really match his high-end, dynamic power portrayals. But they do beat him on a typical day. This sounds best to me.

These circular abhi debates get depressing after awhile; he honestly just worships Superman to an unhealthy level. Once that sinks in, it stops being funny.

Originally posted by JBL
Superman does not hulk-out. He's been on earth absorbing sunlight far far long than thte others and has had far far longer mastering his powers. Girls win.

"Hulk out" was more of a casual turn of phrase, as under no writer that I know of--though God knows, Loeb and Casey have had their crazy days--does Superman's power dynamic really approximate the Hulk's.

That being said, there is a middle ground here. Various writers have ascribed different mechanisms to Superman's dynamism. There is no real consensus on the exact mechanics, or even it's full existence, in my opinion. But under many writers, Superman clearly has a level of dynamism that exceeds that of other heroes.

I don't know how you want to deal with that on this board, given the rules here. Many times, when Superman's unique dynamism is not used--such as in the aforementioned stalemates with Captain Marvel--I believe that the writer in question is one who doesn't really ascribe to the belief that Superman is very special in this way. In that respect, I think some posters are right. They go wrong when they extend that belief to all portrayals.

So we have something that happens under many writers, and doesn't under others. And the mechanism of Superman's dynamism, whatever the specifics may be, has been crafted purposely, in my opinion, such that a writer doesn't have to use it. Even under the pen of writers who do believe in a dynamic Superman, the specific situations that will "trigger'' him remain relatively undefined. So if Superman doesn't "Hulk" out in a situation where, based on past evidence, we feel he might, it's hard to know for sure if the conditions just weren't right, or if the writer in question doesn't believe that Superman has a uniquely dynamic nature.

When Superman fought Wonder Woman under Rucka, he was going all out. He thought he was fighting Doomsday. He got more than the average hero boost for doing such--Diana mentioned she forgot how strong he was. But IMO this was a very basic level of dynamism: Superman holds back a bit more than others, so when he cuts loose he jumps in strength a bit more. But that was it. Nothing mentally regulated or psionic or absorbing more sunlight. Just simply a man who is more restrained than most dropping those restraints. As a result, while he clearly appeared stronger than Diana, the gap wasn't much more than normal. And not huge in absolute terms.

On the other hand, you have some writers saying explicitly that he can be as strong as he wants to be. It's magically mental, somehow. Others stack Superman's holding back--which they say he does to an extreme--with mentally regulated powers and 'mental blocks'. And you get things like the massive power boost he showed in OWAW. Or Loeb having an angry future Superman breaking Wonder Woman's bracers, and Loeb saying that if Superman gets pissed enough, he can break anything.

Averaging this out to find a board consensus on ONE Superman is tough. But at least admitting that there is a middle ground between him being just like any other hero, and being like the Hulk, should be easy. I don't know why everyone has to go to extremes, one way or the other, here.

And as a side note, it's curious why other Kryptonians never really seem to show the same dynamic potential Superman does. Under writers where Superman can be "as strong as he needs to be", why can't Supergirl, or Power Girl, or Zod. Or even Daxamites like Mon-El. It's all rather curious, in this respect.

@Pillow

Popularity is the greatest superpower, lulz.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The more solar energy he absorbs and stronger he gets.

But hey, Thor stalemated him in a test of Strength for am hour. Surely that means Hulk doesn't has dynamic strength, right?

You even admitted Hulk dynamic strength was not written during that era.

Originally posted by JBL
I thought he had mental blocks?? Solar energy is his power source, that's not dynamic strength of a outside force is needed. Why don't he just turn off his mental blocks since he so-called turned them on one day in his fans mind? He could have won the arm wrestling match against marvel right? I mean that's the reason he loses fights right? Mental blocks gets his azz handed to him right? He could fight Kurse in a fist fight and drop his mental blocks and, and...... and??... and??... AND get his behind curb stomped. Now hulk could fight Kurse and Kurse better take h out quickly or we all know what would happen right? And please don't bring up that owaw drug induced to writer story. We all know what OWAW stands for... Oh... Wow! ....Abhil ....Worships... Superman.

All this nonsense and you still couldn't prove how Hulk has dynamic strength when Thor stalemated him in a test of Strength for an hour.

Whine more.

Originally posted by riv6672
These circular abhi debates get depressing after awhile; he honestly just worships Superman to an unhealthy level. Once that sinks in, it stops being funny.
Your bitching is always funny though.

Originally posted by carver9
You even admitted Hulk dynamic strength was not written during that era.
No, I said it wasn't written consistently.

Hulk was always getting stronger since Fantastic Four 25.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Your bitching is always funny though.

Oh, yours us too!

Until i remember, you're in love with a fictional character. Then its just...

Your projection about your inner feelings is never funny though.

Hey ABHI, is this not the same Superman you used that blitzed Captain Marvel?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112281/3027240-power+girl+superman+035.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112281/3027241-power+girl+superman.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112281/3027246-power+girl+superman+1.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112281/3027259-power+girl+superman+2.jpg

Let me know if you need me to post that scan you always post of Cap vs Supes that you have a habit of posting in every Captain Marvel vs Superman debate.

The truth is, i feel bad for you.

I can see why you wouldnt find that funny, abhi. Pity from random people on the internet is pretty indicative of where your life is at.

When you respond, feel free to drop your mental blocks and not hold back.

Originally posted by JBL
He doesn't have dynamic powers or the writers would not waste their time writing something like oh, captain marvel and superman arm wrestling to see who's stronger. Now if the writer knew superman had dynamic strength, why would ALL of them agree that those two are close in strength? Why would they waste fans time having him fight and struggle with Black Adam if he had dynamic strength?? Captain Marvel knows superman. Why would he waste his time trying to See whose stronger if superman had dynamic strength?? Again, why would the writers waste fans time?? I don't Care what mindset superman is in, he has and always will be close in strength with marvel and Adam. Just because he's allowed to win as ALL Heroes do, does not mean he has dynamic strength, he had hero save the day strength like every other hero. Hulk has dynamic strength not superman. Captain Marvel or black Adam. You want him to have dynamic strength so you can say. A unrestrained non holding back superman is this or that. Tuff **** dude, superman CM and BA was, is and will always be in the same strength class period. Get over it.

If you only were able to realize how stupid what you write is.

Originally posted by JBL
He doesn't have dynamic powers or the writers would not waste their time writing something like oh, captain marvel and superman arm wrestling to see who's stronger. Now if the writer knew superman had dynamic strength, why would ALL of them agree that those two are close in strength? Why would they waste fans time having him fight and struggle with Black Adam if he had dynamic strength?? Captain Marvel knows superman. Why would he waste his time trying to See whose stronger if superman had dynamic strength?? Again, why would the writers waste fans time?? I don't Care what mindset superman is in, he has and always will be close in strength with marvel and Adam. Just because he's allowed to win as ALL Heroes do, does not mean he has dynamic strength, he had hero save the day strength like every other hero. Hulk has dynamic strength not superman. Captain Marvel or black Adam. You want him to have dynamic strength so you can say. A unrestrained non holding back superman is this or that. Tuff **** dude, superman CM and BA was, is and will always be in the same strength class period or a fight between them would be pointless. Get ov it.

A double post to make all your red herrings and strawmen only slightly longer?

Originally posted by JBL
He doesn't have dynamic powers or the writers would not waste their time writing something like oh, captain marvel and superman arm wrestling to see who's stronger. Now if the writer knew superman had dynamic strength, why would ALL of them agree that those two are close in strength? Why would they waste fans time having him fight and struggle with Black Adam if he had dynamic strength?? Captain Marvel knows superman. Why would he waste his time trying to See whose stronger if superman had dynamic strength?? Again, why would the writers waste fans time?? I don't Care what mindset superman is in, he has and always will be close in strength with marvel and Adam. Just because he's allowed to win as ALL Heroes do, does not mean he has dynamic strength, he had hero save the day strength like every other hero. Hulk has dynamic strength not superman. Captain Marvel or black Adam. You want him to have dynamic strength so you can say. A unrestrained non holding back superman is this or that. Tuff **** dude, superman CM and BA was, is and will always be in the same strength class period or a fight between them would be pointless. Get over it.

Actually, a triple post of worthlessness.

Originally posted by JBL
That should be enough to open your eyes or do you need a fourth dose of reality?

You telling someone they need to open their eyes and need a dose of reality? I guess "fourth dose" is a cover for your ****-up of posting the same thing three times.

Originally posted by carver9
Hey ABHI, is this not the same Superman you used that blitzed Captain Marvel?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112281/3027240-power+girl+superman+035.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112281/3027241-power+girl+superman.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112281/3027246-power+girl+superman+1.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112281/3027259-power+girl+superman+2.jpg

Let me know if you need me to post that scan you always post of Cap vs Supes that you have a habit of posting in every Captain Marvel vs Superman debate.

Yes, because the brain cap shorting out at the end had nothing to do with that. But context is irrelevant as long as it doesn't hurt you, amiright?

Originally posted by Delta1938
Yes, because the brain cap shorting out at the end had nothing to do with that. But context is irrelevant as long as it doesn't hurt you, amiright?

What happened before that? Also, ABHI posted throughout Cap vs Superman thread Captain Marvel's being blitzed by this same Superman as evidence of Cap not being on Superman's level. I know you Supe fans enjoy backing each other up, even when you're wrong 99.9999999% of the time but this is a convo that isn't meant for you this time buddy.

Originally posted by carver9
What happened before that? Also, ABHI posted throughout Cap vs Superman thread Captain Marvel's being blitzed by this same Superman as evidence of Cap not being on Superman's level. I know you Supe fans enjoy backing each other up, even when you're wrong 99.9999999% of the time but this is a convo that isn't meant for you this time buddy.

Originally posted by carver9
What happened before that? Also, ABHI posted throughout Cap vs Superman thread Captain Marvel's being blitzed by this same Superman as evidence of Cap not being on Superman's level. I know you Supe fans enjoy backing each other up, even when you're wrong 99.9999999% of the time but this is a convo that isn't meant for you this time buddy.

How are you so incompetent yet write coherently? It's obvious for anybody who isn't an idiot.

But hey, since context is irrelevant, tell me again how that example negates her not doing nearly as well despite backup here?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/SupermanVS/Teams/PublicEnemies2TaskForce

Or here, again with back-up, while her and others are likely amped by the Blackrocks?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/SupermanVS/Teams/BlackrockFinalBattle

Originally posted by Delta1938
How are you so incompetent yet write coherently? It's obvious for anybody who isn't an idiot.

But hey, since context is irrelevant, tell me again how that example negates her not doing nearly as well despite backup here?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/SupermanVS/Teams/PublicEnemies2TaskForce

Or here, again with back-up, while her and others are likely amped by the Blackrocks?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/SupermanVS/Teams/BlackrockFinalBattle

I don't get what you are trying to show me here. Your first scan, anyone that read the story knows that Powergirl was skeptical about fighting Superman and Batman. She had no sides and was confused on if Superman was guilty or not. Then, nothing even happened during that scene. Superman created a tornado and grabbed her. This is what I meant by the 99.99999% percent.

Sigh...your second set of scans. Is she fighting Superman? Like, do you see her trying to punch him in the face there. She's trying to restrain a pissed off Superman, that's it. That like me posting this...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111120859/3139402-hero-envy-hulkvssilversurfer9a.jpg

As evidence that Hulk could pull a 10/10 against both Surfer and Namor. You should nickname yourself "reaching" because you're doing a lot of that right now (always).

This is just bizarre, ill-willed version of a running inside joke. Few posters are making any kind of relevant or consistent argument here. They are just trying to piss one another off and score points in some strange, inbred game that seems to have been going on forever. And will never end.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't get what you are trying to show me here. Your first scan, anyone that read the story knows that Powergirl was skeptical about fighting Superman and Batman. She had no sides and was confused on if Superman was guilty or not. Then, nothing even happened during that scene. Superman created a tornado and grabbed her. This is what I meant by the 99.99999% percent.

Sigh...your second set of scans. Is she fighting Superman? Like, do you see her trying to punch him in the face there. She's trying to restrain a pissed off Superman, that's it. That like me posting this...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111120859/3139402-hero-envy-hulkvssilversurfer9a.jpg

As evidence that Hulk could pull a 10/10 against both Surfer and Namor. You should nickname yourself "reaching" because you're doing a lot of that right now (always).

Originally posted by carver9
I don't get what you are trying to show me here.

Due entirely to your terrible reading comprehension.


Originally posted by carver9
Your first scan, anyone that read the story knows that Powergirl was skeptical about fighting Superman and Batman. She had no sides and was confused on if Superman was guilty or not. Then, nothing even happened during that scene. Superman created a tornado and grabbed her. This is what I meant by the 99.99999% percent.

Originally posted by Delta1938
But hey, since context is irrelevant , tell me again how that example negates her not doing nearly as well despite backup here?

I wasn't exactly being subtle there. Your scans of Power Girl fighting Superman, anyone that read the story knows that Superman and the others PeeGee fought were mind controlled(using your phrasing against you is fun) and it's quite obvious from your own scans that the control device shorting out was a significant factor in the end. So, you use a handicapped Superman fighting Power Girl and omit the context that's obvious in the very scan you posted to use against Superman. Either you're dishonest and really stupid to think others won't notice, or you're insanely stupid not to understand the context you posted. Neither is good for you.

Originally posted by carver9
Sigh...your second set of scans. Is she fighting Superman? Like, do you see her trying to punch him in the face there. She's trying to restrain a pissed off Superman, that's it.

Everybody was fighting Superman due to the Blackrock influence. Even narration is getting dramatic saying "They both knew this would almost surely be their last BATTLE." Narration's emphasis, not mine.

Originally posted by carver9
That like me posting this...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111120859/3139402-hero-envy-hulkvssilversurfer9a.jpg

As evidence that Hulk could pull a 10/10 against both Surfer and Namor. You should nickname yourself "reaching" because you're doing a lot of that right now (always).

That's an almost relevant strawman. Do try again.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Due entirely to your terrible reading comprehension.






I wasn't exactly being subtle there. Your scans of Power Girl fighting Superman, anyone that read the story knows that Superman and the others PeeGee fought were mind controlled(using your phrasing against you is fun) and it's quite obvious from your own scans that the control device shorting out was a significant factor in the end. So, you use a handicapped Superman fighting Power Girl and omit the context that's obvious in the very scan you posted to use against Superman. Either you're dishonest and really stupid to think others won't notice, or you're insanely stupid not to understand the context you posted. Neither is good for you.



Everybody was fighting Superman due to the Blackrock influence. Even narration is getting dramatic saying "They both knew this would almost surely be their last BATTLE." Narration's emphasis, not mine.



That's an almost relevant strawman. Do try again.

That's why I said you shouldn't have commented on my post. When or where in my post did I say Superman wasn't mind controlled? I don't even understand why you brought up him being controlled when I clearly said "ABHI, this is the same Superman you used as evidence that Superman is above Captain Marvel". That statement has nothing to do with handicap, mind controlled, nothing...read the above again. With that said, I'm done discussing this topic with you. I'll wait for ABHI.

Originally posted by carver9
That's why I said you shouldn't have commented on my post. When or where in my post did I say Superman wasn't mind controlled? I don't even understand why you brought up him being controlled when I clearly said "ABHI, this is the same Superman you used as evidence that Superman is above Captain Marvel". That statement has nothing to do with handicap, mind controlled, nothing...read the above again. With that said, I'm done discussing this topic with you. I'll wait for ABHI.

The fact that you're still leaving-out the mind control device shortening at the end, where you see him and others reacting in pain to it, shows how dishonest you are. You're ignoring two points I made and focusing on one. So yeah, you fail like usual.

Originally posted by carver9
That's why I said you shouldn't have commented on my post. When or where in my post did I say Superman wasn't mind controlled? I don't even understand why you brought up him being controlled when I clearly said "ABHI, this is the same Superman you used as evidence that Superman is above Captain Marvel". That statement has nothing to do with handicap, mind controlled, nothing...read the above again. With that said, I'm done discussing this topic with you. I'll wait for ABHI. Brush him off.

Wonder Woman tells PG to take a powder as she's got this.

http://www.the-medium-is-not-enough.com/images/IGAU_Y4_8_17.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Hey ABHI, is this not the same Superman you used that blitzed Captain Marvel?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112281/3027240-power+girl+superman+035.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112281/3027241-power+girl+superman.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112281/3027246-power+girl+superman+1.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112281/3027259-power+girl+superman+2.jpg

Let me know if you need me to post that scan you always post of Cap vs Supes that you have a habit of posting in every Captain Marvel vs Superman debate.
Yes, every hero there was stunned when the mind control by Ultra Humanite was broken.

Context Carter. Context.

Originally posted by tkitna
Wonder Woman tells PG to take a powder as she's got this.

http://www.the-medium-is-not-enough.com/images/IGAU_Y4_8_17.jpg
Way to fail.

Guys, keep the personal stuff out of it. You're more likely to get banned than to be allowed to continuously ruin threads. Try to remain on topic, please.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Way to fail.

Bitter much?

Regardless, either girl can hang with him, together its overkill. Superman loses.

Originally posted by tkitna
Bitter much?

Regardless, either girl can hang with him, together its overkill. Superman loses.

Wait, you weren't trolling?

Did they really have Karen handle Major Force, Black Adam AND Superman like that in a fight almost simultaneously? What issue is this?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Did they really have Karen handle Major Force, Black Adam AND Superman like that in a fight almost simultaneously? What issue is this?

Hold your horses there, Blue. They were all under mind control, and it was specifically cited as they were "just puppets."

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/th_JSA35-PG04.jpg

Don't leave out the context. Anyways STEALING THUNDER was JSA #32-#37.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Did they really have Karen handle Major Force, Black Adam AND Superman like that in a fight almost simultaneously? What issue is this?

Yep and per ABHI, this version of Superman was just as beastly as the real deal. ABHI spammed links with this version of Superman knocking out Captain Marvel.

How was Superman mind controlled? I thought he was supposed to be almost impervious to that according to his die hard fans around here.

Originally posted by tkitna
How was Superman mind controlled? I thought he was supposed to be almost impervious to that according to his die hard fans around here.



With that said, he had a mind control device on him but due to his mental blocks, it didn't work and Power girl koed him.

Originally posted by tkitna
How was Superman mind controlled? I thought he was supposed to be almost impervious to that according to his die hard fans around here. Double standards in 5,4,3,2,

Guys, stop baiting.

Originally posted by carver9
Yep and per ABHI, this version of Superman was just as beastly as the real deal. ABHI spammed links with this version of Superman knocking out Captain Marvel.

I know you have to do your best to downgrade Superman so you can pump up Hulk, but this example doesn't help your case when the writer seemed to think Power Girl>Captain Marvel as well, at least as a brick.

Originally posted by tkitna
How was Superman mind controlled? I thought he was supposed to be almost impervious to that according to his die hard fans around here.

Assuming you're not trolling(which the end sure seems to say you are) saying he's quite resistant isn't saying he's impervious. There was a shitload of context for Ultra Humanite to control all those he did.Originally posted by carver9


With that said, he had a mind control device on him but due to his mental blocks, it didn't work and Power girl koed him.

Cheerleading and omitting context? How you of you.

Originally posted by tkitna
Bitter much?

Regardless, either girl can hang with him, together its overkill. Superman loses.
They really can't hang up with him. Superman's equal Kal-L did this to Power Girl and entire JSA together.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_BlackestNightJSA3004005.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_BlackestNightJSA3006.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_BlackestNightJSA3010011.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_BlackestNightJSA3012013.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_BlackestNightJSA3014015.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_BlackestNightJSA3016017.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_BlackestNightJSA3018019.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_BlackestNightJSA3020021.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_BlackestNightJSA3022.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Yep and per ABHI, this version of Superman was just as beastly as the real deal. ABHI spammed links with this version of Superman knocking out Captain Marvel.
Where did I say that? The comic made it clear that they are less formidable than usual due to mind control.

http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29245337_34-05.jpg

Its literally spelled it out for you.

Originally posted by tkitna
How was Superman mind controlled? I thought he was supposed to be almost impervious to that according to his die hard fans around here. Originally posted by carver9


With that said, he had a mind control device on him but due to his mental blocks, it didn't work and Power girl koed him.
facepalm

Power Girl completely shat on Superman there, christ.

She looked superior to him in Virtue and Vice as well.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Power Girl completely shat on Superman there, christ.

She looked superior to him in Virtue and Vice as well.

Because **** context, amiright?

You mean where Superman was weakened and Power Girl wasn't? So **** context again, it's irrelevant. Superman did better solo against Despero on his own later than him(weakened), Power Girl, Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel did in V&V.

The relative power levels of various pre-Crisis Kryptonians never made much sense.
Superboy Prime is essentially the same as Earth 1 Pre-Crisis Superman, though maybe a bit less powerful due to being younger. Earth 2 Superman initially looked a lot less powerful than Earth 1 Superman, but by the Crisis was just a bit weaker. Suddenly, when SBP and Kal-L reappear in continuity, SBP is MUCH more powerful than Kal-L who is basically equivalent to Post-Crisis Superman.
And then there are Supergirl and Power Girl, whose power levels, relative to the Supermen and each other, have fluctuated as well.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Power Girl completely shat on Superman there, christ.

She looked superior to him in Virtue and Vice as well.


He was literally less formidable and the only reason he was koed because he was stunned by breaking the mental control. Heck, everyone else was koed by just the mental feedback.

They never even fought in Virtue and Vice.

I'm starting to think Power Girl doesn't need WW here.

Originally posted by krisblaze
I'm starting to think Power Girl doesn't need WW here.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman overpowers nearly every alien superhero on earth including J'onn, Power Girl, Ultra while they were all amped by Blackrock

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16004712_supesvseveryone.JPG http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16004723_supesvseveryone2.JPG http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16004724_supesvseveryone3.JPG

How much Blackrock amps someone? It amps a normal human to the point that superman hurts his hand punching him

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16004648_blackrock1.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16004649_blackrock2.jpg

Or allows Batman to go toe to toe with superman

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16004650_blackrockbats.JPG http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16004672_blackrockbats2.JPG http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16004679_blackrockbats3.JPG http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16004682_blackrockbats4.JPG http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16004683_blackrockbats5.JPG

Continued in the next post........

Originally posted by abhilegend
Continued

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16004684_blackrockbats6.JPG http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16004688_blackrockbats7.JPG

So you can imagine just how insane this feat is.

Superman also breaks the mental control with some help from lois when telepaths like J'onn and Jemm the son of saturn couldn't.

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16004689_breakscontrol.JPG http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16004690_breakscontrol2.JPG http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16004691_breakscontrol3.JPG


http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16004703_controlseveryone.JPG http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16004707_controlseveryone2.JPG http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16004708_controlseveryone3.JPG
Basically she along with every alien hero on earth couldn't even stop one of his arms.

While hugely amped on Blackrock.

Kal-L beat the shit out of her AND JSA together.

I know you are a thorbag but this is low, even for you.

Originally posted by abhilegend


He was literally less formidable and the only reason he was koed because he was stunned by breaking the mental control. Heck, everyone else was koed by just the mental feedback.

They never even fought in Virtue and Vice.

I very well could be wrong, but I assumed he meant because her and Hourman hitting Despero together hurt him. I already covered V&V.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Basically she along with every alien hero on earth couldn't even stop one of his arms.

While hugely amped on Blackrock.

Kal-L beat the shit out of her AND JSA together.

I know you are a thorbag but this is low, even for you.

And he did better, on his own, against Gog than Power Girl and the JSA did. He also did about as well even after being impaled and injected with liquefied Kryptonite with help from the Teen Titans(mostly Conner), who are<<the JSA team Gog faced(even minus Power Girl).

Or how Power Girl, Kara, Linda Danvers, Cir-El(I think her name was?) and that Silver Age looking Kara needed to work together to free Superman from The Source Wall where Superman was able to free Darkseid on his own(and remove Highfather's Staff on his own, as well).

Or Power Girl and that Silver Age looking Kara attempted to restrain a berserk Conner and ended-up getting overpowered, but Superman was restraining a berserk Conner with one hand while focused on Black Lantern Kal-L, blasting him with heat vision.

But no, all that counts is that she did well against him and others that were handicapped by mind control and she knocked him out after the mindcap was shorted and hurt him(and as you pointed out others were knocked out just from them shorting). No, this is the only fight that matters.

Do you have any explanation for why Superman would be so much more powerful than Power Girl or Supergirl at times? Logically, should not their relative power levels, whatever they truly are, remain essentially the same? If Superman can access dynamic power, shouldn't they be able to as well?
And if Superman is truly, when all the gloves have been dropped, that much more powerful than Peege or Supergirl, do you have an explanation for why? In the case of Supergirl, Superman hasn't even been exposed to more sunlight, right? She was supercharged during her entire voyage to Earth, if I recall.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
Do you have any explanation for why Superman would be so much more powerful than Power Girl or Supergirl at times? Logically, should not their relative power levels, whatever they truly are, remain essentially the same? If Superman can access dynamic power, shouldn't they be able to as well?
And if Superman is truly, when all the gloves have been dropped, that much more powerful than Peege or Supergirl, do you have an explanation for why? In the case of Supergirl, Superman hasn't even been exposed to more sunlight, right? She was supercharged during her entire voyage to Earth, if I recall.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comics.jpg

It could be. But I'm curious if there have been any attempts, in comics or by outside (by writers, editors, etc.) to explain this.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
Do you have any explanation for why Superman would be so much more powerful than Power Girl or Supergirl at times? Logically, should not their relative power levels, whatever they truly are, remain essentially the same? If Superman can access dynamic power, shouldn't they be able to as well?
And if Superman is truly, when all the gloves have been dropped, that much more powerful than Peege or Supergirl, do you have an explanation for why? In the case of Supergirl, Superman hasn't even been exposed to more sunlight, right? She was supercharged during her entire voyage to Earth, if I recall.
Superman is perfect kryptonian. He is essentially captain america of kryptonians.

At least Byrne version was.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
It could be. But I'm curious if there have been any attempts, in comics or by outside (by writers, editors, etc.) to explain this.

I was half-joking, but anyways Superman's dynamic factor has largely been explained as him holding back to the point of suppressing his powers, because he grew up always fearing to hurt someone. Loeb, who definitely went this route, had explained that Kara initially came off as superior to him because she didn't have the control over his powers that he did. Really, none of the other Kryptonians would have that. They just started developing their powers and weren't raised like Clark was.

Also, while Kara was exposed to solar energy via those panels, it never really was clear how much she took in, as she seemed to still be developing her powers when she came to Earth, like Clark noting surprise she had X-Ray vision.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman is perfect kryptonian. He is essentially captain america of kryptonians.

At least Byrne version was.

Another writer alluded something similar with Eradicator saying "Kal-El's perfect Kryptonian form" or something like that.

All possible and interesting hypotheses. Thanks. It should be noted that some writers have gone further along the dynamic powers route, suggesting Superman somehow absorbs more sunlight when he gets emotional. One would think that all Kryptonians can do that.
Loeb took the "holding back aspect" and added in the mentally regulated powers angle, with maybe a touch of Byrne's psionic take (though not referenced as such). But whatever the concoction, it was potently dynamic.
With Loeb, there was holding back. But it didn't necessarily seem that there was some kind of realizable upper limit that he'd hit if he just stopped all holding back. He had an element of mystery there--of Superman potentially having nearly unlimited power. But never explained that part.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
All possible and interesting hypotheses. Thanks. It should be noted that some writers have gone further along the dynamic powers route, suggesting Superman somehow absorbs more sunlight when he gets emotional. One would think that all Kryptonians can do that.

UP, UP AND AWAY by Busiek and Johns actually basically covered this, although it wasn't explicitly said.

When Superman was powerless for a year, his body, despite still being Kryptonian, simply wasn't absorbing sunlight.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part1/th_AC838-PG01.jpg

When Clark was being chased by a couple villains sent by Intergang, he was on the run. Possibly running faster than he normally could without powers.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part1/th_AC838-PG14.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part1/th_AC838-PG15.jpg

He gets hit by Neutron's blast, but thinks he's mistaken, as his arm should have been blown off if he was hit.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part1/th_AC838-PG17.jpg

Gets to the train station, falls down, and can't get up and out of the way in time.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part1/th_AC838-PG18.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part1/th_AC838-PG19.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part1/th_AC838-PG20-21.jpg

OH NO!! Oh, wait.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part1/th_AC838-PG22.jpg

He's fine, and left a hand shaped dent where the train ran into it.

What else? When Lois found out, he goes over there wasn't anything you'd expect to bring his powers back, no experiments to restore them, no solar flares, ect. He says he thinks they were starting to come back, and he thinks he let them come back.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part2/th_SUPERMAN652-PG06.jpg

Talks about his powers are only partially back.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part2/th_SUPERMAN652-PG08.jpg

Again, talking about his powers only partially being back, and what he knows he can do. He still can't fly. That's important.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part2/th_SUPERMAN652-PG16.jpg

And note that he's getting hurt by those bullets. Nothing major, but they are causing injury. This will be important later.

Anyways, he faces a group of his villains sent by Intergang.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part2/th_SUPERMAN652-PG17.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part2/th_SUPERMAN652-PG18.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part2/th_SUPERMAN652-PG19.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part2/th_SUPERMAN652-PG20.jpg

Here, he notes he can fly again, but it's shaky. And he needs something else to push his powers up again.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part2/th_SUPERMAN652-PG21.jpg

Annnnnnnnnd--

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part2/th_SUPERMAN652-PG22.jpg

--Jimmy being in danger did it!!

He continues fighting Intergang.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part3/th_AC839-PG04.jpg

Remember when I said to note earlier that bullets were hurting him? Yep, Bloodsport noted it too. Brought up those bullets hurt him, so the more powerful rounds he's going to use "--ought to punch your heart clean out!!" What do they do?

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part3/th_AC839-PG05.jpg

Nothing. But note Superman's head feels strange. Well, suddenly.....

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part3/th_AC839-PG06.jpg

....yeah, his mind is upgraded. His senses seem to be too, as he notes he should have been braced for Silver Banshee but was distracted by "turbulence in Akron." And he gets tactical.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part3/th_AC839-PG07.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part3/th_AC839-PG08.jpg http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Misc/DynamicNature/UpUpAndAway/Part3/th_AC839-PG09.jpg

Anyways, I would assume as he started with his body not absorbing solar energy, and his powers just come back partially, and keep jumping up as needed, I would guess his absorption of solar energy takes a jump as well.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
Loeb took the "holding back aspect" and added in the mentally regulated powers angle, with maybe a touch of Byrne's psionic take (though not referenced as such). But whatever the concoction, it was potently dynamic.
With Loeb, there was holding back. But it didn't necessarily seem that there was some kind of realizable upper limit that he'd hit if he just stopped all holding back. He had an element of mystery there--of Superman potentially having nearly unlimited power. But never explained that part.

Byrne did intend it and write it as at least partially telekinetic in nature, but he wasn't allowed to directly show it, as he said on his own website(can't remember if it was the FAQ, his message board, or both). But yeah, most writers(if any) didn't actually follow it being TK based, but there certainly were ones who kept the dynamic angle in tact. His mind effecting his absorption/regulation of solar energy is as much an explanation as any.

As for limit, Byrne on his own site said he had Superman be "as strong as he believes he is!!" and, I think it was Byrne(was the era, but it might have been whoever else was a Superman writer at the time) had a narration implying his strength was limited only by his will. Not that I'm going to use the No Limits Fallacy, just pointing-out that's Byrne's take on Superman, and it shows Superman's power being dynamic were from the beginning of Post-CRISIS era.

Of course, all the haters will totally disregard all direct evidence, implications and writer statements just to cling to their precious preconceived notions of Superman and justify saying, "No all heroes are as strong as they need to be, Superman is nothing special."

To be fair, the scans of powerless and semi-powerless Superman only show the "mentally regulated" aspect of his power. One could argue that they just mean he can suppress his powers below his normal limit, but don't indicate he can exceed his "limits", i.e. that he can absorb more sunlight than normal. There are, however, other scenes that do show or imply just that.
People who say Superman is just like other heroes when it comes to the dynamism of his power levels are idiots. On the other hand, one doesn't want to go too far and join the idiot crowd by proclaiming that there is some hard consensus on Superman's dynamism, or how it works. There isn't. One needs to be careful and moderate here, sticking to the evidence.
The real underlying truth is that there is a fundamental conflict at the heart of Superman's mythos. On the one hand, a core element of the Superman mythos is the real burden Superman carries on account of his unique power levels. The world depends on him--he is the last line of defense. He has a unique responsibility. And more importantly, the world depends on him showing restraint. If he loses his way morally, or were to be controlled somehow, stopping him would be a huge problem. (His mythos has some strange similarities to the Hulk's when looked at in certain ways.) And part of what makes Superman so good is the temptation he must resist--and thankfully does resist--to simply impose his own will.
This aspect of Superman's mythos worked best when he was the only Superhero. And this is why Kryptonite and his other weaknesses exist. And why people like Batman were given some Green K.
But one can see the obvious problem with integrating this aspect of Superman's mythos into a shared universe, with other top-tier heroes, while preserving some semblance of realistic logic and consistency. None of the above aspects of Superman's mythos really work, or even make sense, when he has peers (or even near-peers) in power. Why do you need Green K to stop him? Just call Wonder Woman. Or if you make Superman consistently and clearly the top dog (but only by a small margin), then just call Wonder Woman, Shazam, the Martian Manhunter, Orion, Black Adam, and everyone else to work together, either put Superman down or save the world when Superman can't.
You can solve the above problem by simply granting Superman a consistently huge power advantage over all other heroes. But this can make him unwieldy for writers. And difficult to add to teams. Still, you could probably write around that, if you wanted. But the truth is that writers don't always want to do that. There are many Superman stories they want to tell that work best when he is at best first among equals.
So comics being comics, writers have for a long time simply ignored the logical contradictions and written the Superman that they want and need for the story at hand. Most Superman stories feature the first-among-equals Superman. But a smaller subset--though a consistently recurring one--of Superman stories features the superhero-to-other-superheroes Superman.
Sometimes, like in the King of the World arc, the clear inconsistency between these two types of Superman portrayals is not explained. However, over the years some writers, likely worried that readers can only suspend disbelief so far, tried to explain the above inconsistency--tried to create a mechanism that allows them to have their cake and eat it to; that allows them to use both types of Superman without there being a logical inconsistency. And that is the root cause of Superman's uniquely fluctuating power levels. At the end of the day, panels in comics are precious and not to be wasted. Words even more so. Writers just want to get on with it, and write the story they want, with the Superman they need. Moreover, no one wants to write themselves into a box, limiting future stories. As a result, the exact nature of Superman's dynamism is rarely spelled out with complete specificity. It's vague by design. And there is no real consensus on even the admittedly vague specifics.
But when all is said and done, there's no denying the fact of what has happened. Sure, other heroes also have their crazy moments where they seem to jump a weight class or two. But these happen far less frequently than with Superman. And with few, if any, attempts to explain and codify the reasons or dynamic. Superman's mythos has relatively unique requirements in this respect, and as a result, --whatever the in-comics explanation (or lack of explanation)--Superman ultimately has a fairly unique track record with respect to wildly varying power levels. That's simply been the case, and I imagine will continue to be the case. There's no denying it, though I realize that this makes for a problematic phenomenon for battleboarders to account for. But nobody ever said writers write to make our lives easy.

TL;DR.

But what I did read, the fact that he started out not just powerless, but his body failing to absorb solar energy, then he suddenly has partial powers, and then later, goes from partial powers, to flight partially back, to back to normal, to his mind upgraded, all individual jumps in the course of a fight, indicates a jump in solar absorption.

And a number of people argue Superman's "just like any other hero who overcomes the odds," most of which pretend to be knowledgeable about Superman, but prove not to be.

It's no longer than the aggregate length of maybe the last three posts you have made, all of which are still on this page. So tl;dr??
Fair enough, but that pretty much limits our discussion. Perhaps I'll simply divide such posts into separate posts in the future. *shrug*

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
It's no longer than the aggregate length of maybe the last three posts you have made, all of which are still on this page. So tl;dr??
Fair enough, but that pretty much limits our discussion. Perhaps I'll simply divide such posts into separate posts in the future. *shrug*

It's not that long, it's just the formatting makes it look like a big wall of text.

Fair enough. It's formatted like a book, but maybe in forums a clear space between paragraphs is de rigeur.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
Fair enough. It's formatted like a book, but maybe in forums a clear space between paragraphs is de rigeur.

Generally so. It's just easier on the eye. Doesn't bother me however a post is formatted but that's the general reason people will say TL;DR.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
It's no longer than the aggregate length of maybe the last three posts you have made, all of which are still on this page. So tl;dr??
Fair enough, but that pretty much limits our discussion. Perhaps I'll simply divide such posts into separate posts in the future. *shrug*

Well, I had to make it 3 posts because of the limits on how many images you can put. I really didn't write that much for what I did. Most(not all) images/groups of images took one or two moderate to long sentences, and then a few moderate paragraphs at the end replying to you.

You on the other hand wrote multiple large, very dense paragraphs. Maybe I would've read it if it was better broken up. But to be honest, we've gone over this before. The basis of what you want to do serves its purpose, but the degree you take it to is way too far for me, sucks out all the fun, and honestly this generally isn't the place for it.

You seem like a nice guy and sometimes what you have to say I think is fairly relevant to whatever the topic, so I won't put you on ignore or just completely skip by everything you post(although I'll likely just skim unless it catches my attention), but, and this isn't meant with any offense, don't expect me to engage you too long in what you'd rather do than debate.

Originally posted by Delta1938
The basis of what you want to do serves its purpose, but the degree you take it to is way too far for me, sucks out all the fun, and honestly this generally isn't the place for it.


That makes sense. And I've been trying to adapt. I thought that at this point the debate had stopped, particularly about the OP, and now we were having more of a discussion about dynamic power.
But re-reading, I see that the debate never stops! And your phrase "sucks out all the fun" is quite telling. I've intuited this before, and even expressed it. But now I see it more clearly. Debate and scoring points--and I don't mean this pejoratively--is always what this place is about. It's not really about getting as close to the truth as we can, because that's really hard with comics, and why work that hard about something that doesn't really matter. It's more about the give and take, and the fun to be had in scoring points. Makes sense.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
That makes sense. And I've been trying to adapt. I thought that at this point the debate had stopped, particularly about the OP, and now we were having more of a discussion about dynamic power.
But re-reading, I see that the debate never stops! And your phrase "sucks out all the fun" is quite telling. I've intuited this before, and even expressed it. But now I see it more clearly. Debate and scoring points--and I don't mean this pejoratively--is always what this place is about. It's not really about getting as close to the truth as we can, because that's really hard with comics, and why work that hard about something that doesn't really matter. It's more about the give and take, and the fun to be had in scoring points. Makes sense.

Maybe I'll give it another try when I'm on my computer again later(definitely not on my phone; everything seems longer on there, weird). But really, writers will write whatever they want/need/both so, while there certainly are exceptions, going over things to that degree is generally unnecessary at best as compared to just using the evidence.

And this place IS called "Comic Book VERSUS Forum" for a reason.

All good, Delta. I get you now, and no sweat. I disagree with the blanket characterization of comics as things that writers will write any way they want, at any time. This may be true, at the end of the day. But there are patterns in what they will do, and more importantly, in how they will do it. It's not random chaos. And in these patterns and trends lie the real truth, or as close to it as we can get.
At any rate, I get you--and I had gotten you already. I thought that this here was something different. But it wasn't. My mistake. Carry on. My bad.

Every character shows strength above what they've previously shown though. It depends on the writer and the plot. Wolverine, Spidermanx Thor, Thing, etc...has shown the ability to go beyond their previous self. It's called not holding back any longer which means you will exceed what was shown during the time you did hold back.

The difference is, they don't have mental dampeners to block them from ever using their full strength.?

Superman holds back too. His mechanism of doing it is different than everyone.

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/Retcon/JLA_v1_098-22.jpg

That's a retcon btw

Originally posted by quanchi112
The girls do whip his ass. They simply overwhelm him.

This doesn't fit with the godlike status Supes seems to be granted here.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/Retcon/JLA_v1_098-22.jpg

That's a retcon btw

Sigh.

Originally posted by carver9
Sigh.

If you are so sure, bz it with delta buddy

Btw owned!

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
If you are so sure, bz it with delta buddy

Btw owned!

Was he angry when he fought Diana?

Originally posted by carver9
Was he angry when he fought Diana?

Yes, having hallucinations. He almost killed her in less than 2 minutes

Like I said if you are so sure bz it with delta, unless you are affraid, which I understand.

Owned again !

Btw I was wondering if you know what is your IQ level? Just a question

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Yes, having hallucinations. He almost killed her in less than 2 minutes

Like I said if you are so sure bz it with delta, unless you are affraid, which I understand.

Owned again !

Btw I was wondering if you know what is your IQ level? Just a question

He still seem extremely angry though. Did Wonder Woman fight a Superman more powerful than ever?

My IQ is over 9000.

Originally posted by carver9
He still seem extremely angry though. Did Wonder Woman fight a Superman more powerful than ever?

My IQ is over 9000.

Nah, he wasn't at his right mind but he do almost killed her in under 2 minutes. You remember that, right?

And no, you IQ is much lower than that. Do you know it or not?

Also like I said, if you feel so sure bz it with delta, unless you don't feel confident enough?

Superman wins

Boobs and booty always win with me

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Nah, he wasn't at his right mind but he do almost killed her in under 2 minutes. You remember that, right?

And no, you IQ is much lower than that. Do you know it or not?

Also like I said, if you feel so sure bz it with delta, unless you don't feel confident enough?

Being angry and seeing someone as another person doesn't take away from someone's powerset. Example, if Hulk seen Thor as Red Hulk and got so mad that he went World Breaker and Thor still stalemate him, that's a ft for Thor, not a take away from Hulk.

So again, was Superman angry when he fought Wonder Woman?

Your other question is irrelevant and off topic.

Originally posted by Surtur
This doesn't fit with the godlike status Supes seems to be granted here. Exaggerations. Nothing out of the ordinary.

Originally posted by carver9
Being angry and seeing someone as another person doesn't take away from someone's powerset. Example, if Hulk seen Thor as Red Hulk and got so mad that he went World Breaker and Thor still stalemate him, that's a ft for Thor, not a take away from Hulk.

So again, was Superman angry when he fought Wonder Woman?

Your other question is irrelevant and off topic.

So if under hallucinations you fight a 6 ft female of 130 lbs is equal to hallucinate that you are fighting against an opponent of almost 9 ft tall and two or 3 times the body mass it will be the same outcome?

I imagine the head of the 9 ft hallucination is at the same place as the head of the 6ft woman? Is this is what you are trying to imply?

Again if you are so confident about it bz delta unless you are not which it seems you are not.

Also did superman almost killed ww in under two minutes yes or no?

Also it will be nice to know your actual IQ because your arguments are lacking.

Just so we are clear.

Under hallucinations since reality is not what you perceive you end up attacking the air and hitting nothing.

Nice try though.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
So if under hallucinations you fight a 6 ft female of 130 lbs is equal to hallucinate that you are fighting against an opponent of almost 9 ft tall and two or 3 times the body mass it will be the same outcome?

I imagine the head of the 9 ft hallucination is at the same place as the head of the 6ft woman? Is this is what you are trying to imply?

Again if you are so confident about it bz delta unless you are not which it seems you are not.

Also did superman almost killed ww in under two minutes yes or no?

Also it will be nice to know your actual IQ because your arguments are lacking.

How was he able to grab her neck and choke her while flying to the sun? Grab her wrist, heat vision her face. Doomsday is 9 ft tall, much bigger than her but yet he flew straight to her neck dragging her into space. He dodged and grabbed her wrist. None of the things should've happened if size had anything to do with this.

Wonder Woman held her own and had the advantage while barely holding back against a Superman in a rage. If Hulk would've experienced anything close to the rage Superman had during his fight against Diana, the amp would've been noticeable, even if any hallucinations were involved.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Just so we are clear.

Under hallucinations since reality is not what you perceive you end up attacking the air and hitting nothing.

Nice try though.

He was hitting nothing because Diana was too fast for him.

Getting to the point where one of two things will happen: Either Sacrifice will be banned because people like using it for lowballing and can't take a hint, or people will just get banned.

Either or.

Originally posted by carver9
How was he able to grab her neck and choke her while flying to the sun? Grab her wrist, heat vision her face. Doomsday is 9 ft tall, much bigger than her but yet he flew straight to her neck dragging her into space. He dodged and grabbed her wrist. None of the things should've happened if size had anything to do with this.

Wonder Woman held her own and had the advantage while barely holding back against a Superman in a rage. If Hulk would've experienced anything close to the rage Superman had during his fight against Diana, the amp would've been noticeable, even if any hallucinations were involved.

Sigh!

You see? There is reason to questioning your IQ.

When the fight was done close quarters (when Superman grabbed DD/Ww) the succes rate of the attack will be much higher.

This is the reason why he almost killed her in under two minutes on the first part of the fight, because the closer he was the higher the succes rate even with the hallucination disadvantage. And this is why she was able to survive better when she wasn't at point blank range.

The farther away she was the more disadvantage superman is going to have under hallucinations the closer she was the more effective Superman was even under hallucinations.

That is why he almost killed her in under two minutes.

Point which you haven't refute so far.

It is painfull to have to spoond feed you obvious things which you don't seem to have the capabilities to understand and that are obvious to the normal people.

Originally posted by carver9
He was hitting nothing because Diana was too fast for him.

Nope, because he was seeing things that weren't there. That was made obvious on the comic book by the writter.

Originally posted by carver9
Every character shows strength above what they've previously shown though. It depends on the writer and the plot. Wolverine, Spidermanx Thor, Thing, etc...has shown the ability to go beyond their previous self. It's called not holding back any longer which means you will exceed what was shown during the time you did hold back.

Shut up. Just. Shut. Up. Ignoramus.

I was about to tell Carter that I am too tired to spoon feed him. Luckily for me you are here and now I can take a rest from his ignorance.

Please grind his face to the ground for me.

Thank you very much

Hopefully and if he feels so confident about it, he will accept your challenge, but knowing him. I really doubt it.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Sigh!

You see? There is reason to questioning your IQ.

When the fight was done close quarters (when Superman grabbed DD/Ww) the succes rate of the attack will be much higher.

This is the reason why he almost killed her in under two minutes on the first part of the fight, because the closer he was the higher the succes rate even with the hallucination disadvantage. And this is why she was able to survive better when she wasn't at point blank range.

The farther away she was the more disadvantage superman is going to have under hallucinations the closer she was the more effective Superman was even under hallucinations.

That is why he almost killed her in under two minutes.

Point which you haven't refute so far.

It is painfull to have to spoond feed you obvious things which you don't seem to have the capabilities to understand and that are obvious to the normal people.

So you're telling me that if I, me being at 6'2 was to reach at a guy who is 7'5 in height, I can grab him by the neck with my arms straight out in front of me because I am close to him? WTF. If Doomsday is 9 ft, no matter how close or far you are, if you're 6'3, you are not going to be able to reach right in front of you and grab his neck. That's dumb. Anyways, Pr said stop so I'm done with this topic. I'm glad it has been answered that the madder Superman is the stronger he gets.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
If you are so sure, bz it with delta buddy

Btw owned!

He fears me, as his dropping out of topics to avoid my BZ challenge and coming back when attention has been diverted proves.


Originally posted by carver9
He still seem extremely angry though. Did Wonder Woman fight a Superman more powerful than ever?

My IQ is over 9000.

Your IQ isn't above 9. Just shut up. Quit clinging to your bullshit justification to ignore evidence. You asked if Superman has ever increased his powers mid battle. I ****ing posted scans of it last page. It happens multiple times in the same fight. Get over yourself you hypocrite.

@Carver9

Concessions accepted

Now run along spit-spot.

Originally posted by Delta1938
He fears me, as his dropping out of topics to avoid my BZ challenge and coming back when attention has been diverted proves.




Your IQ isn't above 9. Just shut up. Quit clinging to your bullshit justification to ignore evidence. You asked if Superman has ever increased his powers mid battle. I ****ing posted scans of it last page. It happens multiple times in the same fight. Get over yourself you hypocrite.

I never said he couldn't become weak which is what your scan basically showed. I don't see him becoming stronger, stronger, stronger, stronger due to some type of emotion. It has been shown and proven that was not the case. That's why I asked you, if Superman anger level was at a 1000, would he be able to rip through Superboy Prime? I doubt it and I think the results we saw with his fight against Prime would be the same.

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/PSIONIC%20NATURE%20OF%20POWERS/AC586PSYONICNATUREOFPOWERS2.jpg


http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/PSIONIC%20NATURE%20OF%20POWERS/AC586PSYONICNATUREOFPOWERS3.jpg

I can find and show you more but I rather Delta to do it in a bz, loser gets banned for a month. What do you say? Are you game?

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/PSIONIC%20NATURE%20OF%20POWERS/AC586PSYONICNATUREOFPOWERS2.jpg


]http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/PSIONIC%20NATURE%20OF%20POWERS/AC586PSYONICNATUREOFPOWERS3.jpg

I can find and show you more but I rather Delta to do it in a bz, loser gets banned for a month. What do you say? Are you game?

I

Never

Said

He

Couldn't

Become

Weaker

If his body rejects solar energy, if cyclops body rejects solar energy, if Havok body rejects solar energy...they become weaker. This is not what I'm disputing. Him returning back to his normal power level, that is highly possible. He can exceed that if he plunge into the sun. What I'm telling you is, no matter how mad or whatever else that triggers this suppose amp, he gets, he will not drop Orion, Black Adam, etc... with ease, if at all.

Originally posted by carver9
I

Never

Said

He

Couldn't

Become

Weaker

If his body rejects solar energy, if cyclops body rejects solar energy, if Havok body rejects solar energy...they become weaker. This is not what I'm disputing. Him returning back to his normal power level, that is highly possible. He can exceed that if he plunge into the sun. What I'm telling you is, no matter how mad or whatever else that triggers this suppose amp, he gets, he will not drop Orion, Black Adam, etc... with ease, if at all.

Read

CAREFULLY


http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/ 00_Prelude_to_Infinite_CrisisSMRETAINSSOLARENERGYA
CCORDINGTOSTRESS_zpsgbxgu7uc.jpg

Are you game for the BZ?

I don't know why link is not working let me look for the right scan



http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/IMG_20160810_215221_zps6gdzhd6v.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
I never said he couldn't become weak which is what your scan basically showed. I don't see him becoming stronger, stronger, stronger, stronger due to some type of emotion. It has been shown and proven that was not the case. That's why I asked you, if Superman anger level was at a 1000, would he be able to rip through Superboy Prime? I doubt it and I think the results we saw with his fight against Prime would be the same.

I'd tell you to stop, that adults are talking. But you clearly don't know better.

You've been given the very evidence you asked for, and you're blatantly ignoring it.

You constantly show double standards, like when you dismiss Superman busting through Soulfire Darkseid, who no-sold The Presence/ALE, because "it didn't do anything, he reformed," while saying DCnU Superman ripping DCnU Doomsday in half isn't impressive because, and leaving out Wonder Woman's sword can cut atoms, she stabbed him. Even though it didn't bother him, which, by your very own standards, means her sword didn't do shit.

You constantly dodge questions and then accuse others of it.

You tried to change my BZ challenge to suit your stance while acting like you were fully confident, then made the excuse that you didn't have the comics you needed when you damn well knew if you told me that from the beginning, that I would've given you a reasonable amount of time to get what you needed together. But no, you were making excuses so you could not accept it, but still protect your fragile ego by not declining it, proving you know you'd lose. Just like all the playing dumb you do asking me questions I've already answered multiple times, just so you can do whatever you can to make yourself feel better.

You protested the drafting of Imperiex Probes basically going, "But they're Trans!!" and then did everything you could to lowball them in every thread they're mentioned in.

You repeatedly challenged me on Xbox LIVE and accused me of being afraid, despite the fact that we had no common games to play against each other(something you could easily check), and then when you finally got one that I had, you challenged me, I accepted, you kept saying I better show-up, and not back out, and when the time you said you'd be on came.....I waited a couple hours before giving up on your no show. And yet you still said I was the one avoiding you.

You argue that science can't be used to quantify feats when it suits you, but then challenge Rao to quantify a feat, after you previously made it clear that you can't do that.

You will say lip service doesn't count, or feat sharing doesn't count, when it suits you, but then use that as soon as it helps your case.

Example, how you kept dismissing Wally doing an IMP because, "Barry isn't Wally" but then trying to lowball it by using.....Zoom, whose powers don't work the same and nothing even indicated he was doing that, to try and act like it ain't shit.

Or you arguing things for John Stewart(out of context, to boot) as if they apply to Hal, but then complaining when others show things. Of course you make your justification, but then that would only work if you didn't dishonestly ignore/dismiss context. Then you ignore examples for HAL that disprove your stance.

Among many other examples. Dude, you make the oldest profession look like a noble and honorable tradition.

K I'm done taking this off topic.

Superman wins, team isn't enough.

So, anyways, on topic. Let's look at Superman versus Gog.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC815

Is casually owning Gog, while belittling him, up until Gog impales Supes and injects him with liquefied Kryptonite. Let's see how he performs like that?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC816

Has some help from the Teen Titans(mostly Conner) but performs admirably considering his injuries and the Kryptonite. He even gets impaled(and possibly injected) a second time.

Well, the whole thing was for Gog to weaken Superman, as that Kryptonite and other things Gog set-up had been making him artificially age and gradually weaken and even lose powers(like flight). How does he fair while artificially aged, weakened and no flight, against an army of Gog?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/Army

Despite that part way through he has help from Doomsday, and loses in the end, quite well, on Superman's "weakest day" it seems, considering he's in a less than optimal state and outnumbered. And HEY!! Gog had defeated Wonder Woman and other JLAers!! In fact, it seems he beat the entire JLA minus Batman and J'onn. They even called in reservists. Some duplicate scans.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/Army/JLA

When Superman was serious and healthy(due to Gog changing his mind in the future and reaching back and healing/undoing the Kryptonite stuff) how did he do? He ****ing one-shot Gog.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/FinalBattle

Gog was actually down for a few pages as it went to Superman going to Ma and Pa.

How did Gog do against Power Girl? He never fought her.....one-on-one. He fought the entire JSA.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-14

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-15

And yes, it was the same Gog. The retcon changed the origin, but made it clear this was the same Gog.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/Confirmation

Also, carter, previously I didn't bring-up Superman's performances against Gog when arguing Superman vs Wonder Woman because I usually stick to their own fights and comparative performances against common opponents. And I forgot that Wonder Woman and most of the JLA(including reservists) lost to the Gog Army and Superman severely weakened held his own against them for a while, and was reminded when getting stuff together to respond to your out of context lowballing Superman vs Power Girl.

So ironically, you helped me argue for Superman>>Wonder Woman. Good job!!

Originally posted by carver9


Umm, no it doesn't. He absorbs all kinds of energy. Solar is just his main source.

Pr, warned for going off topic. Cyclops isn't here.

Neither is Piotr, or Arthur.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Pr, warned for going off topic. Cyclops isn't here.

Neither is Piotr, or Arthur.

Warned for backseat moding.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Warned for backseat moding.

Reported for backseat moding.

Is there a setting that allows these links to be viewed properly and simply, as one would on a laptop or desktop computer? I get these too-tiny-to-be-read pictures whenever Delta or anybody else, including myself, tries to share info via Photobucket here on my iPhone 5. I'm thinking there MUST be some simple fix that I'm overlooking, for the simple fact no one else seems to complain about the same thing. Assuming you guys also use your phones when examining Photobucket scans, what exactly do you do to view them the way they're supposed to be?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Is there a setting that allows these links to be viewed properly and simply, as one would on a laptop or desktop computer? I get these too-tiny-to-be-read pictures whenever Delta or anybody else, including myself, tries to share info via Photobucket here on my iPhone 5. I'm thinking there MUST be some simple fix that I'm overlooking, for the simple fact no one else seems to complain about the same thing. Assuming you guys also use your phones when examining Photobucket scans, what exactly do you do to view them the way they're supposed to be?

Actually each pic is meant to be opened like a link. But I'm feeling nice so I'll help. Although it does work to view them on a phone, it's better on a computer if you can do that, and I'd imagine on a tablet as well.

Superman vs Gog at first.


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC815/AC815-PG13.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC815/AC815-PG14.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC815/AC815-PG15.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC815/AC815-PG16.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC815/AC815-PG17.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC815/AC815-PG18.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC815/AC815-PG19.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC815/AC815-PG20.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC815/AC815-PG21.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC815/AC815-PG22.jpg


After being impaled and injected with liquefied Kryptonite, with help from the Teen Titans(mostly Conner).


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC816/AC816-PG01.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC816/AC816-PG02.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC816/AC816-PG03.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC816/AC816-PG04.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC816/AC816-PG05.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC816/AC816-PG06.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC816/AC816-PG07.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC816/AC816-PG08.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC816/AC816-PG09.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC816/AC816-PG10.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC816/AC816-PG11.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC816/AC816-PG12-13.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC816/AC816-PG14.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC816/AC816-PG15.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC816/AC816-PG16.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC816/AC816-PG17.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC816/AC816-PG18.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/AC816/AC816-PG19.jpg


Artificially aged, weakened and can't even fly against the Gog Army.


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/Army/AC824-PG19.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/Army/AC824-PG20.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/Army/AC824-PG21.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/Army/AC824-PG22-23.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/Army/AC825-PG03.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/Army/AC825-PG04-05.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/Army/AC825-PG06.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/Army/AC825-PG07.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/Army/AC825-PG08.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/Army/AC825-PG11.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/Army/AC825-PG12.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/Army/AC825-PG13.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/Army/AC825-PG14-15.jpg


When Superman is healed and serious.


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/FinalBattle/AC825-PG25.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/FinalBattle/AC825-PG26.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/SupermanVS/Villains/Gog_II/FinalBattle/AC825-PG29.jpg


Gog Army beat the JLA minus Batman and J'onn, including reservists. Some repeated scans.


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/Army/JLA/AC824-PG01.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/Army/JLA/AC824-PG09.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/Army/JLA/AC824-PG21.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/Army/JLA/AC824-PG22-23.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/Army/JLA/AC825-PG09.jpg


How the JSA, Power Girl included, did against Gog, Part I.


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-14/JSofA_V2_14-PG08-09.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-14/JSofA_V2_14-PG13.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-14/JSofA_V2_14-PG14.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-14/JSofA_V2_14-PG15.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-14/JSofA_V2_14-PG16.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-14/JSofA_V2_14-PG17.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-14/JSofA_V2_14-PG18.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-14/JSofA_V2_14-PG19.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-14/JSofA_V2_14-PG20.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-14/JSofA_V2_14-PG21.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-14/JSofA_V2_14-PG22.jpg

Part II.


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-15/JSofA_V2_15-PG02.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-15/JSofA_V2_15-PG03.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-15/JSofA_V2_15-PG04.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-15/JSofA_V2_15-PG05.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-15/JSofA_V2_15-PG06.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-15/JSofA_V2_15-PG07.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-15/JSofA_V2_15-PG08.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-15/JSofA_V2_15-PG09.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-15/JSofA_V2_15-PG10.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-15/JSofA_V2_15-PG11.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-15/JSofA_V2_15-PG12-13.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-15/JSofA_V2_15-PG14.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-15/JSofA_V2_15-PG15.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-15/JSofA_V2_15-PG16.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/VS_JSA/JSofA-15/JSofA_V2_15-PG17.jpg


And yes, it was the same Gog that Superman fought. The retcon changed his identity and origin and had him crazy thinking he was from the future, but it was still the same guy.


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/Confirmation/JSofA_V2_13-PG08.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/Confirmation/JSofA_V2_13-PG13.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/Confirmation/JSofA_V2_13-PG14.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/Confirmation/JSofA_V2_16-PG15.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/Confirmation/JSofA_V2_16-PG16-17.jpg


http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/Villains/Gog_II/Confirmation/JSofA_V2_16-PG18.jpg


There ya go. I even put extra space between links.

Delta,

If I get the chance, I'll figure a way to screen-capture and post what I actually see when I'm trying to view any Photobucket link even like what you posted in the previous 2 posts on this phone. It's probably nothing like what you're thinking.

I suspect this is probably a case where an app is required to view properly and that the normal mobile phone page without it is just crap. Chess.com and a few other sites are like that, I know ...

To address the main topic, I'm sure you can guess my stance. Superman versus Wonder Woman alone would be a hard fight for Superman to win. It would be hard for Diana, too, to be sure, and I'm pondering, if it went the grappling route, whether one grabbing the other begins the end with a knee to the groin or a blast of either arctic breath or heat vision to the face.

Superman versus Karen AND Diana, though?
Even Pr doesn't see Superman winning this one, and that's saying something.

It's interesting to think how even the trump card of taking the battle near the sun might not prove a trump card, because Karen herself becomes far stronger as she gets nearer a yellow star.

And, ultimately, there IS that handling of Major Force, Black Adam, and Superman almost at once by Karen. No, I don't believe she's likely to do anything of that sort to Superman in a 1-on1. No, what I'm looking at is the fact she seems to be capable of stunning or even knocking Superman out, more or less with one shot, if someone distracts or compromises him enough for Karen to get one good shot in. I don't envision too many scenarios where Diana can't accomplish at least that much.

Team for the win.

Wonder woman can't scramble Superman's mind in fight.

Superman doesn't needs a diversion to beat the shit out of both.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Delta,

If I get the chance, I'll figure a way to screen-capture and post what I actually see when I'm trying to view any Photobucket link even like what you posted in the previous 2 posts on this phone. It's probably nothing like what you're thinking.

I suspect this is probably a case where an app is required to view properly and that the normal mobile phone page without it is just crap. Chess.com and a few other sites are like that, I know ...

To address the main topic, I'm sure you can guess my stance. Superman versus Wonder Woman alone would be a hard fight for Superman to win. It would be hard for Diana, too, to be sure, and I'm pondering, if it went the grappling route, whether one grabbing the other begins the end with a knee to the groin or a blast of either arctic breath or heat vision to the face.

Superman versus Karen AND Diana, though?
Even Pr doesn't see Superman winning this one, and that's saying something.

It's interesting to think how even the trump card of taking the battle near the sun might not prove a trump card, because Karen herself becomes far stronger as she gets nearer a yellow star.

And, ultimately, there IS that handling of Major Force, Black Adam, and Superman almost at once by Karen. No, I don't believe she's likely to do anything of that sort to Superman in a 1-on1. No, what I'm looking at is the fact she seems to be capable of stunning or even knocking Superman out, more or less with one shot, if someone distracts or compromises him enough for Karen to get one good shot in. I don't envision too many scenarios where Diana can't accomplish at least that much.

Team for the win.


http://gif.co/ycf6.gif

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Delta,

If I get the chance, I'll figure a way to screen-capture and post what I actually see when I'm trying to view any Photobucket link even like what you posted in the previous 2 posts on this phone. It's probably nothing like what you're thinking.

I suspect this is probably a case where an app is required to view properly and that the normal mobile phone page without it is just crap. Chess.com and a few other sites are like that, I know ...

There's an app, but I actually haven't used it for viewing other peoples' Photobuckets. They gave me free extra space for having it.

I don't use iPhone, and don't know what browser you're using, but I know on Chrome you can request the Desktop version, so it'll be more like the PC version. Check your browser's options, maybe it has it.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
To address the main topic, I'm sure you can guess my stance.

Yes, the incorrect one.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Superman versus Wonder Woman alone would be a hard fight for Superman to win. It would be hard for Diana, too, to be sure, and I'm pondering, if it went the grappling route, whether one grabbing the other begins the end with a knee to the groin or a blast of either arctic breath or heat vision to the face.

Not really. The only fights where she's won, you have to ignore context and the fact that despite she ultimately won, she was shown to be physically inferior. The best she's looked in an actual fight she matched him tops and he was weakened and handicapped by mind control. In their fights without extenuating circumstances, he has handled her and made her look inferior without even taking her seriously. I know YOU don't accept the fights being like that, but that's how it is.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Superman versus Karen AND Diana, though?
Even Pr doesn't see Superman winning this one, and that's saying something.

Yeah, that's not going to win you any points here.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
It's interesting to think how even the trump card of taking the battle near the sun might not prove a trump card, because Karen herself becomes far stronger as she gets nearer a yellow star.

He doesn't need to do that. He's handled superior teams to these two. He can one-shot either of them as well.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
And, ultimately, there IS that handling of Major Force, Black Adam, and Superman almost at once by Karen. No, I don't believe she's likely to do anything of that sort to Superman in a 1-on1. No, what I'm looking at is the fact she seems to be capable of stunning or even knocking Superman out, more or less with one shot, if someone distracts or compromises him enough for Karen to get one good shot in. I don't envision too many scenarios where Diana can't accomplish at least that much.

Blue, Blue, Blue. You've been TOLD the flippin' context and you still cling to that? Superman was handicapped by mind control. They made it a point that those under mind control were less formidable, that they had the powers but not the experience, that they were PUPPETS. That that's what gave the resistance a chance. Carter is such a dishonest hypocrite and ignored context in the very scan he showed. She knocked him out because the mindcap was shorting out. People were knocked out JUST FROM THAT. He had that AND was for all intents and purposes sucker punched. It's a good showing for her since she's like a C-Lister in the Superman family, but it doesn't actually show how she'd handle Superman on her own.

Superman's stalemated Ursa, Zod and Non, all of which are superior to either here. He wrecked Ultraman, Superwoman and Owlman(despite some slight context of his instincts being altered). He was taking on Power Girl, Martian Manhunter, Kilowog(with TWO Power Rings) and a whole bunch more, with Power Girl and many others amped by the Blackrocks(which made Batman strong enough to draw blood from Superman), and Power Girl with help couldn't even restrain him. Among other things.

The Gog fight? Superman was wrecking Gog casually, mocking Gog, with a smile on his face, up to the point that he got impaled and injected with LIQUEFIED KRYPTONITE. He still held his own with some help from the Teen Titans(mostly Conner, and even then Superman did a lot of the work), held his own for a while against an army of Gog(which had beaten most of the JLA, including Wonder Woman and reservists) despite being artificially aged and weakened, and when healthy and serious, one-shot Gog.

Gog was taking on the entire JSA, Power Girl included, one-shot Earth-22(KINGDOM COME) Superman, ect, and the JSA only beat him by taking him to the real Gog who stripped him of his power.

Power Girl and a Silver Age looking version of Kara tried to restrain an enraged Conner, and he overpowered them. Superman restrained an enraged Conner with one hand while heat visioning Black Lantern Kal-L.

Superman did better against Black Lantern Kal-L, on his own or with help, than Power Girl did against him despite help from some of the JSA.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Team for the win.

Only if you cherry pick and omit context. Even from the examples you cherry pick.

Team wins unless Superman gets angry. The angrier he get the stronger he becomes.

I really wish people wouldn't speak for me.

Originally posted by carver9
Team wins unless Superman gets angry. The angrier he get the stronger he becomes.

Prove the team wins without out of context examples.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I really wish people wouldn't speak for me.

I read this as "I really wish people wouldn't speak to me." the first time. Got real sad for you

Originally posted by carver9
Team wins unless Superman gets angry. The angrier he get the stronger he becomes.

Superman kills WW in under 2 minutes then procedes to squeeze the silicone out of PG and then to rape Hulk at superspeed. Hulk would not even known why he is so loose sudenly.

Originally posted by Cogito
I read this as "I really wish people wouldn't speak to me." the first time. Got real sad for you

I LOLed.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Superman kills WW in under 2 minutes then procedes to squeeze the silicone out of PG and then to rape Hulk at superspeed. Hulk would not even known why he is so loose sudenly.

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk isn't in this thread.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Prove the team wins without out of context examples.

I already did. Team wins

Originally posted by -Pr-
I really wish people wouldn't speak for me.

#classicprquotes

Originally posted by carver9
I already did. Team wins

Originally posted by Delta1938
Prove the team wins without out of context examples.

without out of context examples.

Originally posted by carver9
I already did. Team wins

WcWM_1hBu_c

If I think Wonder Woman could pull a 6/10 against him, with Powergirl added to the equation, did you think I was going to decrease the percentage or something. Wonder Woman fought an amped Superman and held her own. His rage was at a 20 plus. She also fought a Doomsday Superman that was in complete rage (amped) and held her own. Add Powergirl, yeah, doesn't look good.