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1. Sabers only
2. Force only
3. All out

Starting distance is only 2 meters, so you don't go "who wins the Force wins all out just because we say that" : p

Godlander godstomps

I am leaning towards The Outlander.

He not just tanked powers of Arcann, he is also beastly with a Lightsaber. He is also Light Side so Mace Windu's greatest weapon (Vaapad) would not come into effect here.

Godlander

Mace lol

Originally posted by Nephthys
Godlander

Godlander does not exist. The hype was false.

Windu wins.

>ended Arcann's career, and is going to end Vaylin's and Valkorion's

>doesn't exist

>lel

He won't beat Valkorion without having some massive circumstances involved imo.

That or they'll do some weird thing where their connection allows him to overpower Valkorion in some way, similar to a Potter/Voldemort link.

Arcann is more powerful than Windu and a comparable duelist, if not superior. The Outlander has the undeniable edge here.

Originally posted by Trocity
That or they'll do some weird thing where their connection allows him to overpower Valkorion in some way, similar to a Potter/Voldemort link.

Never considered this, tbh...

Originally posted by Nephthys
Arcann is more powerful than Windu and a comparable duelist, if not superior. The Outlander has the undeniable edge here. ...No?

He can beat Arcann when Arcann loses his footing, clearly this means he can beat everyone

Originally posted by Jmanghan
...No?

Act III HoT is already an arguable fight for Windu. The Godlander kind of isn't.

Arcann a superior duelist to Mace?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Act III HoT is already an arguable fight for Windu. The Godlander kind of isn't. Lol.

He obviously is with Valk amping him like the little ***** he is

Originally posted by carthage
He obviously is with Valk amping him like the little ***** he is I was lol'ing to the first part.

Tbh, I don't think Outlander vs Mace is a bad match-up.

...However, I think they're close to being equal, if not, Mace is superior in sabers.

Agreed Arcann is totally comparable to besting/stalemating ROTS Sidious.

Would be a good fight

Originally posted by carthage
Agreed Arcann is totally comparable to besting/stalemating ROTS Sidious.

Would be a good fight He may have thrown the fight, so that point is moot.

And while the fight was even before the bombardment happened, I suspect the Outlander would have won anyway.

Lol, carth ignoring everything important like usual. Windu won't have his vapaad amp or his crazy levels of rage to draw upon in this fight. Nor is the Outlander throwing the fight.

Standard Windu struggles with early Ventress, gets punked by Maul and at his best is merely a rival of Dooku.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol, carth ignoring everything important like usual. Windu won't have his vapaad amp or his crazy levels of rage to draw upon in this fight. Nor is the Outlander throwing the fight.

Standard Windu struggles with early Ventress, gets punked by Maul and at his best is merely a rival of Dooku.

I mean, even if Sidious threw the fight, the fact that Mace can hang with Sidious... at all is a testament to his ability.

Give the Outlander the amps Windu had and they could as well.

Like I said, Windu needed all his skills to get the edge over Ventress, he performed poorly against Maul, he lamented his own skills against Depa and showed no advantage over Bulq in sabers. The idea that Windu is a legendary, unbeatable duelist based on the RotS duel needs to die.

Oh lord.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Arcann a superior duelist to Mace?
And why he can't be?

Because his showings and accolades are clearly superior?

Being place on "tier 9" with the Yoda's and Palpatine's of the worldld isn't anything Arcann can hope to achieve.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Because his showings and accolades are clearly superior?

Being place on "tier 9" with the Yoda's and Palpatine's of the world isn't anything Arcann can hope to achieve.

But Anakin can.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Because his showings and accolades are clearly superior?

Being place on "tier 9" with the Yoda's and Palpatine's of the worldld isn't anything Arcann can hope to achieve.

They aren't. Beating Sidious is the only one and there were several factors in his favor. Other than that his dueling feats aren't better than the Hero's in any way, not are his accolades.

That ranking system is completely obsolete.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Because his showings and accolades are clearly superior?

Being place on "tier 9" with the Yoda's and Palpatine's of the worldld isn't anything Arcann can hope to achieve.
Fantastic argument.

We don't know if Arcann is a well-known character outside BioWare and how authors perceive him in general. However, in-game conversations give us the impression that Arcann and Vaylin are stronger than any Jedi (and/or Sith) in the galaxy and Valkorion perceives them as a grave threat to his plans. This should tell you something about them.

Windu.

There is no such thing as tier 9

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
We don't know if Arcann is a well-known character outside BioWare and how authors perceive him in general. However, in-game conversations give us the impression that Arcann and Vaylin are stronger than any Jedi (and/or Sith) in the galaxy and Valkorion perceives them as a grave threat to his plans. This should tell you something about them.

Sidious perceived an untrained Luke Skywalker as a grave threat to his plans, too.

"He could destroy us."

"The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi."

So...

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Fantastic argument.

Right back at ya...

Originally posted by Trocity
Sidious perceived an untrained Luke Skywalker as a grave threat to his plans, too.

"He could destroy us."

"The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi."

So...
This is a matter of perception. I don't recall Valkorion perceiving an untrained Force-user as a grave threat to his plans.

A large number of Force-users did not even register on the radar of Valkorion. Those who did, were dealt with.

My point is that Valkorion perceives the duo of Arcann and Vaylin as a significantly greater threat to his plans than any Jedi and/or Sith in the galaxy. Revan was an exception.

Originally posted by Nephthys
They aren't. Beating Sidious is the only one and there were several factors in his favor. Other than that his dueling feats aren't better than the Hero's in any way, not are his accolades.

That ranking system is completely obsolete.

Yeah, his accolades are. Countless times have Mace been stated, or implied to have close parity with Yoda in lightsaber skill, with some sources even listing him as the "best" in the order.

And no, they weren't "several" favors on his side --- the Vaapad "amp" is evidence to the sheer potential, and ceiling Mace is capable of unleashing in combat as a duelist.

No, it's not "obsolete" just because you want it to be so. I'm taking Nick's opinion over some internet random any day of the week.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Yeah, his accolades are. Countless times have Mace been stated, or implied to have close parity with Yoda in lightsaber skill, with some sources even listing him as the "best" in the order.

And no, they weren't "several" favors on his side --- the Vaapad "amp" is evidence to the sheer potential, and ceiling Mace is capable of unleashing in combat as a duelist.

No, it's not "obsolete" just because you want it to be so. I'm taking Nick's opinion over some internet random any day of the week.
Right.

Even Mother Talzin managed to push Mace Windu back in a melee-oriented clash.

Windu's performance against Palpatine represents his finest hour. It doesn't implies that Windu would steamroll any other opponent. Alternate theory is that Palpatine threw the fight to gain sympathy of Anakin Skywalker.

Concentrate on the bigger picture. Your opinion is grounded in a single fight, which is problematic.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is a matter of perception. I don't recall Valkorion perceiving an untrained Force-user as a grave threat to his plans.

A large number of Force-users did not even register on the radar of Valkorion. Those who did, were dealt with.

My point is that Valkorion perceives the duo of Arcann and Vaylin as a significantly greater threat to his plans than any Jedi and/or Sith in the galaxy. Revan was an exception.

Fair. Though I wasn't trying to say Arcann is unimpressive, my point was that that line of thinking is flawed. That Valkorion perceives him to be above any other Jedi or Sith as a threat doesn't then auto place him as an equal, or superior, to Mace Windu as a duelist. That's all.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Yeah, his accolades are. Countless times has Mace been stated, or implied to have close parity with Yoda in lightsaber skill, with some sources even listing him as the "best" in the order.

So has the Count. It usually just refers to technical, not combative skill.

Agreed with most of your post, though.

Originally posted by Trocity
Fair. Though I wasn't trying to say Arcann is unimpressive, my point was that that line of thinking is flawed. That Valkorion perceives him to be above any other Jedi or Sith as a threat doesn't then auto place him as an equal, or superior, to Mace Windu as a duelist. That's all.
Valkorion's perception is grounded in power and capabilities of Arcann and Vaylin.

You should concentrate on the dialogue between Valkorion and Outlander in Chapter 1 and Chapter 12. Valkorion reminds the Outlander again and again that he is outgunned in relation to his children in spite of being the strongest Jedi in the galaxy. This is why Valkorion binds himself to the Outlander (to assist him in dire situations) and eventually empowers him because he has other matters to attend to.

Chapter 12, in particular, is very telling.

Valkorion's children cut a swath through the ranks of Jedi and Sith in various battles and survivors chose to retreat. Satele Shan witnessed the massacre first hand and lost all hope.

Inclined to say the Outlander wins here, though it would be a good fight.

Constructed in the wilderness of Odessen, this unique weapon has special properties that make it significantly more powerful when facing Arcann in battle.

Shitlander's trinket is useless against Windu. Windu anally penetrates

And so does everyone else the Outlander faces in recent threads.

Glad you agree.



Momentarily, yeah, and on a potent DS nexus to boot. I view this as more a positive for a Sidious-tier Force user, rather than a negative for Mace Windu. Unless, Talzin has some underwhelming feat out there that deems such a showing from her contradictory to what I'm saying - then I don't see how this really puts a dent any kind in my argument. mmm



Never claimed it did. But it does portray about his ceiling as a duelist, and lends credence to Nick Gillards statement regarding his skill.





Possibly, it's far from an conclusive conclusion as Lucasfilm itself has elected to let the fans come up with their own hypothesis rather than objectively shedding light on the subject.



Nah - not really. My entire argument is: Mace's technical proficiency with a blade shares close parity with Sidious/Yoda, and his combative skill can reach level where he can stalemate/best Sidious.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Glad you agree.

Momentarily, yeah, and on a potent DS nexus to boot. I view this as more a positive for a Sidious-tier Force user, rather than a negative for Mace Windu. Unless, Talzin has some underwhelming feat out there that deems such a showing from her contradictory to what I'm saying - then I don't see how this really puts a dent any kind in my argument. mmm

Never claimed it did. But it does portray about his ceiling as a duelist, and lends credence to Nick Gillards statement regarding his skill.

Possibly, it's far from an conclusive conclusion as Lucasfilm itself has elected to let the fans come up with their own hypothesis rather than objectively shedding light on the subject.

Nah - not really. My entire argument is: Mace's technical proficiency with a blade shares close parity with Sidious/Yoda, and his combative skill can reach level where he can stalemate/best Sidious.
I didn't.

When Mother Talzin exchanged blows with Palpatine, the latter remarked that she had no skill. Now this is embarrassing for Mace Windu.

Windu is recognized as one of the greatest duelists of the Jedi Order. Never disputed this fact. However, we don't see him steamrolling any duelist of note.

Problem is that you operate on the assumption that nobody was on par with Palpatine or Yoda in Jedi dueling arts with the exception of Windu in earlier times. This is a baseless (and problematic) assumption.

Originally posted by carthage
Mace lol

@S_W_LeGenD



'Aight, G.



...

Honestly? One can speculate that Talzin skill deteriorated from being in a body foreign from her own, while using melee weapon, unlike her own magik created sword. Otherwise, it just doesn't make sense that Talzin wouldn't be anywhere near Dooku when she gave Windu a solid fight. Not even a powerful nexus like Dathomir can come close to diminishing someone to that degree.



Using this criteria, neither did Yoda.


No, I'm saying neither Arcann or the Outlander can't make that claim, while Mace can. Unless you believe otherwise, I dunno how this undermines my argument.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Honestly? One can speculate that Talzin skill deteriorated from being in a body foreign from her own, while using melee weapon, unlike her own magik created sword. Otherwise, it just doesn't make sense that Talzin wouldn't be anywhere near Dooku when she gave Windu a solid fight. Not even a powerful nexus like Dathomir can come close to diminishing someone to that degree.
I am not sure why Mother Talzin would find it difficult to effectively wield a Lightsaber if she is good in sword-fighting or melee combat in general. If you are good with a sword, you are good with a Lightsaber as well.

Even if you look at the clash between Mother Talzin and Mace Windu, you don't see much skill in the blows of Mother Talzin. She pushes Windu back with sheer ferocity of her blows.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Using this criteria, neither did Yoda.
Right.

Then why assume that nobody else is in their league?

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
No, I'm saying neither Arcann or the Outlander can't make that claim, while Mace can. Unless you believe otherwise, I dunno how this undermines my argument.
Why not?

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Honestly? One can speculate that Talzin skill deteriorated from being in a body foreign from her own, while using melee weapon, unlike her own magik created sword. Otherwise, it just doesn't make sense that Talzin wouldn't be anywhere near Dooku when she gave Windu a solid fight. Not even a powerful nexus like Dathomir can come close to diminishing someone to that degree.

Well, it will be nothing more then a speculation after all. And despite the fact, that windu and dooku were comperable duelists, Dooku always did better against fighters of lower level. He nearly stomped Ventress, two times. While Mace just overhelmed her in their first fight, and during their second meeting, she did a bit better then in preivous fight. Dooku also had the upper hand against Grievous, while Windu stelemated him. Dooku stomped Bulq and Tholme, while Windu stelemated Bulq in single duel.
And it was suggested in a comic, that Talzin had full control over Dooku's body.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am not sure why Mother Talzin would find it difficult to effectively wield a Lightsaber if she is good in sword-fighting or melee combat in general. If you are good with a sword, you are good with a Lightsaber as well. Lightsabers have always been regarded as much more difficult to wield than your average sword, hence why Force users train with swords before moving up to lightsabers.

As for Talzin and Windu, it's obvious that their fight mostly consisted of simple blade-locking rather than a genuine back and forth of skilled duelists. She's a pretty shit duelist, Mace isn't.

Dooku's blade also has a curved hilt, making the weapon even more unfamiliar.

Using Gillard tier system as an argument

Mace

I don't know why people aren't pointing out the obvious. Dooku is of course far more skilled then Talzin. Talzin is a far superior force user and thus has far superior augmentation. Talzin did as well against Mace because of her augmentation.

Mace rolls

Mace wins every time. The Outlander puts up a fight, but isn't going anywhere except down.

Quite.

Bane
Under
Mad
Paint

Originally posted by SunRazer
Mace wins every time. The Outlander puts up a fight, but isn't going anywhere except down.

Stop bumping mismatches you c-unt.

This isn't a mismatch. Godlander still wins.

Outlander wins.

Outlander in all, in a phenomenal fight

The Eternal Emperor.

Outlander, but Windu would put up a better fight than Dooku could.

Nah.