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Interesting video:

rXGm9kvgslc


Source:

https://heatst.com/culture-wars/camille-paglia-and-christina-hoff-sommers-demolish-modern-feminism-part-i/

American SJW doublespeak is not modern feminism.

Originally posted by krisblaze
American SJW doublespeak is not modern feminism.

Eh, a lot of popular feminists do pull stuff like this. Or well I guess you are correct, but I would also add that there are a whole lot of popular feminists that actually aren't true feminists. Since obviously you can't truly believe we live in a rape culture, etc. and be a true feminist.

Originally posted by Stigma
Interesting video:

rXGm9kvgslc


Source:

https://heatst.com/culture-wars/camille-paglia-and-christina-hoff-sommers-demolish-modern-feminism-part-i/

Great post.

Originally posted by Surtur
Eh, a lot of popular feminists do pull stuff like this. Or well I guess you are correct, but I would also add that there are a whole lot of popular feminists that actually aren't true feminists. Since obviously you can't truly believe we live in a rape culture, etc. and be a true feminist.

Sommers is in academia, so you would assume that her arguments should be aimed at modern feminism as it is understood in academia, i.e. butler or ueno.

Granted, this SJW-madness might be more pronounced at certain universities than I am accustomed to, but stuff like rape culture seems to be more of a campus myth than something which has an academic canon.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Sommers is in academia, so you would assume that her arguments should be aimed at modern feminism as it is understood in academia, i.e. butler or ueno.

Granted, this SJW-madness might be more pronounced at certain universities than I am accustomed to, but stuff like rape culture seems to be more of a campus myth than something which has an academic canon.

Dude, even Obama cited false statistics hinting at a rape culture. Still think it's just campus myth when the president opens his mouth and spews the same shit? He did the same for the wage gap lol.

Originally posted by Surtur
Dude, even Obama cited false statistics hinting at a rape culture. Still think it's just campus myth when the president opens his mouth and spews the same shit? He did the same for the wage gap lol.

Yeah....might be worse than I assumed.

I don't have much first hand experience outside a dozen or so american students I know.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Yeah....might be worse than I assumed.

I don't have much first hand experience outside a dozen or so american students I know.

For example he cited the "1 in 5" statistic, that 1 in 5 women will be sexually assaulted. The problem is..the study counted things like an unwanted kiss, groping, and drunken sex as "sexual assault". No I don't mean "someone is black out drunk" kind of sex, because that would make sense. No, it was just any sex that took place if the woman was drunk.

The wage gap is the same. Men *earn* more. There is a difference between earnings and wages, but this is never specified when people cite it.

The earning myth is perpetuated by politicians here as well.

Completely void of context.

Well the name of this person says it all lol.

Originally posted by Surtur
For example he cited the "1 in 5" statistic, that 1 in 5 women will be sexually assaulted. The problem is..the study counted things like an unwanted kiss, groping, and drunken sex as "sexual assault". No I don't mean "someone is black out drunk" kind of sex, because that would make sense. No, it was just any sex that took place if the woman was drunk.

The wage gap is the same. Men *earn* more. There is a difference between earnings and wages, but this is never specified when people cite it.

One in five sounds a bit low imo

Originally posted by Sin I AM
One in five sounds a bit low imo
Well, they're beginning to push a '1 in 3' statistic. Seems better to you?

Maybe. Depends..I consider any unwanted sexual act an assault. I think statistics in the Army was like one in 3 which made sense considering the culture. I don't see college as being that far off

Lol except college is that far off. Way far off. Christina Hoff Sommers herself used data to figure out the number for women on college campuses? Know what it is? Like..1 in 45 lol. That is for RAPE though.

Just to note: you're less likely to be raped on a college campus.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Maybe. Depends..I consider any unwanted sexual act an assault. I think statistics in the Army was like one in 3 which made sense considering the culture. I don't see college as being that far off

This would mean you'd consider a dude slapping your ass sexual assault. Not to say that is right, but sexual assault?

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol except college is that far off. Way far off. Christina Hoff Sommers herself used data to figure out the number for women on college campuses? Know what it is? Like..1 in 45 lol. That is for RAPE though.

Just to note: you're less likely to be raped on a college campus.

I've been thru college sporadically. Classes here and there. Plus I was an adult (over 24) so I didn't experience the culture like I did the military where sleeping with a drunk chick was considered cool. The little I did experience of college was a post adolescent drunk fest so I can see sone stats being high. Besides alot of rapes aren't reported so there's that.

Originally posted by Surtur
This would mean you'd consider a dude slapping your ass sexual assault. Not to say that is right, but sexual assault?

Yea if it was unwanted. Would you consider a dude grabbing your dick sexuAL assault? What about if someone slipped a finger in your ass, I mean it's just a finger. Not sure if serious.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I've been thru college sporadically. Classes here and there. Plus I was an adult (over 24) so I didn't experience the culture like I did the military where sleeping with a drunk chick was considered cool. The little I did experience of college was a post adolescent drunk fest so I can see sone stats being high. Besides alot of rapes aren't reported so there's that.

Ok, but out of the reported rape, it's not anywhere near the numbers people claim, including the president.



Jeez lady you sure like to take things up a notch. We went from ass slapping, which can be done quickly in passing..to shoving a finger up someone's ass. Which would involve the removal of clothing, etc.

By your definition, an unwanted hug would be sexual assault to.

Originally posted by Surtur
Ok, but out of the reported rape, it's not anywhere near the numbers people claim, including the president.



Jeez lady you sure like to take things up a notch. We went from ass slapping, which can be done quickly in passing..to shoving a finger up someone's ass. Which would involve the removal of clothing, etc.

By your definition, an unwanted hug would be sexual assault to.

Stats aren't an exact science. I personally know of two separate occasions of rape that didn't get reported. Shit happens ALOT.

I really didn't though. U asked if I considered a slap on the ass assault. ..which is equivalent to someone grabbing a guys dick. A finger up the ass is equivalent to someone grabbing a thigh and accidentally slipping one in. It's a violation period. But let's switch this up

So u said a hug right? So your walking down the street. Heading to the store. You come across a guy you vaguely remember. He says your name..you say hey and out of nowhere he hugs you. Not too long not too short but he's hugging you. Scratch that sceneraio..Ok let's say you're in a job interview doing pretry good I mean you're nailing it. But before you leave you're new boss gives u a hug. U tense up a bit but he assures you by placing his hand in the small of your back and saying good game.

Scratch that let's try this...you're a kid. And you're minding your own business plating mind craft on your portable gaming device. Some person walks up and tries to hug you...you don't want the hug never asked for the hug but they do.

All those instances are assault luv.

Originally posted by Surtur
Eh, a lot of popular feminists do pull stuff like this. Or well I guess you are correct, but I would also add that there are a whole lot of popular feminists that actually aren't true feminists. Since obviously you can't truly believe we live in a rape culture, etc. and be a true feminist.

Is that the same as you can't be a true Muslim unless you're cutting off infidels heads?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Stats aren't an exact science. I personally know of two separate occasions of rape that didn't get reported. Shit happens ALOT.

I really didn't though. U asked if I considered a slap on the ass assault. ..which is equivalent to someone grabbing a guys dick. A finger up the ass is equivalent to someone grabbing a thigh and accidentally slipping one in. It's a violation period. But let's switch this up

So u said a hug right? So your walking down the street. Heading to the store. You come across a guy you vaguely remember. He says your name..you say hey and out of nowhere he hugs you. Not too long not too short but he's hugging you. Scratch that sceneraio..Ok let's say you're in a job interview doing pretry good I mean you're nailing it. But before you leave you're new boss gives u a hug. U tense up a bit but he assures you by placing his hand in the small of your back and saying good game.

Scratch that let's try this...you're a kid. And you're minding your own business plating mind craft on your portable gaming device. Some person walks up and tries to hug you...you don't want the hug never asked for the hug but they do.

All those instances are assault luv.
No, none of this stuff perhaps apart from straight-up grabbing someone's genitals or actually penetrating someone("accidentally" fingering someone in the ass while slapping them on the thigh, yeah bloody right) even comes close to sexual assault/rape.

Finger up the ass is not even in the same league as a thigh touch.

Penetration compared to something done over clothes.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
No, none of this stuff perhaps apart from straight-up grabbing someone's genitals or actually penetrating someone("accidentally" fingering someone in the ass while slapping them on the thigh, yeah bloody right) even comes close to sexual assault/rape.

Maybe you should look up sexual assault then it's intentionally vague

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Maybe you should look up sexual assault then it's intentionally vague
Well, vagueness sucks because apparently an awkward hug can be interpreted as sexual assault.

1 in 3 doesnt seem unreasonable if were talking about sexual advances. I assume everybodys been kissed or at the very least verbally proposed by someone theyre not interested in.

I dont think this is synonymous to us living in a rape culture.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Well, vagueness sucks because apparently an awkward hug can be interpreted as sexual assault.

You shouldn't downplay it. Every one had their own comfort zone. Every one has their own definition of sexual contact. Keep you hands to yourself it's just that simple. It's vague for the victims sake not the attacker.

Originally posted by Intersectional
A lot of would be John Wayne's on this forum who want to slap women's bums. The truth is any unwanted attention can be assault if someone has been asked to desist it certainly is. Stop means stop and no means no. If you think it doesn't Surtur, then you are a potential sex offender.

Not only that most men set themselves up by thinking what their doing is ok. Then blame rape culture when their accused of something.

Originally posted by Intersectional
A lot of would be John Wayne's on this forum who want to slap women's bums. The truth is any unwanted attention can be assault if someone has been asked to desist it certainly is. Stop means stop and no means no. If you think it doesn't Surtur, then you are a potential sex offender.

By the current definition most people are already sex offenders.

I've made several unwanted advances on women and have several made towards me.

An unwanted advance being a suggestion of sexual nature that was rejected.

This went from a comment about ass slapping, to a finger up the ass somehow being the same, and then to "stop means stop!". This is the kind of tactics feminists use to try to confuse people on the real issues.

Originally posted by krisblaze
One time stuff like sexual proposals at parties are treated as sexual assault by the ruling definition.

Nobody said anything about consistent advances.

Honestly it's alot of grey area to be considered. You just have to use good judgements and common sense...plus KNOW who youre dealing with. Dont expect anything. A good rule of thumb i tell alotta guys is let"her" make the first move. Once she's QBing the situation you generally have nothing to worry about.

Problem is I've seen plenty of women whine that guys don't make the first move.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Honestly it's alot of grey area to be considered. You just have to use good judgements and common sense...plus KNOW who youre dealing with. Dont expect anything. A good rule of thumb i tell alotta guys is let"her" make the first move. Once she's QBing the situation you generally have nothing to worry about.

Good luck getting women with that strategy.

I'm not even going to go into what an absurd kind of role-dynamic that sets up.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
You shouldn't downplay it. Every one had their own comfort zone. Every one has their own definition of sexual contact. Keep you hands to yourself it's just that simple. It's vague for the victims sake not the attacker.
I'm not downplaying it as much as trying to demonstrate how silly this is. Do you think it would be okay to drag someone through the mud and accuse them of sexual assault/rape because of an awkward hug with an acquaintance? Sometimes the real victim is not who you think they are.

I could also guarantee you if a man tried to drag a woman through the mud because the woman gave him an unwanted hug and he was upset? Feminists the world over would be complaining over the treatment of her. Their tiny brains would explode like in that scene from Scanners.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
I'm not downplaying it as much as trying to demonstrate how silly this is. Do you think it would be okay to drag someone through the mud and accuse them of sexual assault/rape because of an awkward hug with an acquaintance? Sometimes the real victim is not who you think they are.

I know that. Im just offering advice.

I feel compelled to bring up a recent case that took place in Norway.

An 18 year old girl accused 3 men of drugging and gangraping her (28, 28 and 32).

It happened after they had been partying together and she had been offered some drugs MDMA/E. There were pictures of the sex but there was a conclusive lack of evidence that she actually didn't want to have sex, and it led to three men walking. The media is up in arms about the injustice of our legal system, but this really feels like one of those cases where you agree to someone when you're drunk and later regret it.

Plus people don't usually take pictures of their rapes.

So I didn't think this deserved it's own topic, but a video also featuring Camille and it discusses just how far universities have fallen:

B553na_skKI

To be which yeah it sees college used to almost represent rebellion and freedom and the sharing of new thoughts and ideas and now it's all about..coddling.

Little late getting in on this but I hadn't been in this section in a while, since as evidenced by a recent banning or three and the lack of action much of it had sadly deteriorated into racism and a lot of foolishness.

This topic, however, like most on sex and sexuality for some reason has mostly stayed on topic and has been pretty informed. Anyway, I just wanted to chime in on the 1 in 5 thing. Every posting I've seen about it on campus--and my university has made a very big push the entire time I've been there to raise awareness in a healthy way--mentions "victim of an attempted or completed sexual assault". That would include everything from unwanted groping and beyond, but afaik it doesn't include things like a kiss or embrace. All incidents on our campus are reported; all members of staff and faculty are required to report events that they become aware of directly or indirectly, and campus-wide emails are sent out for occurrences, listing the location and any pertinent details. We actually don't have a lot of issues considering the size of the school and the size of the metro area around it, but when they occur I think the consensus is that they are handled well overall, though there is room for improvement in some cases.

My main hope would be that the majority continue with informed discussion about gender roles, boundaries, etc, and that we don't devolve into a bunch of tumblr SJWs hating and fearing each other for no reason. It's sad that things like modern Feminism are a thing and that it leads to somewhat out there but understandable movements like MGTOW. One real activist made the excellent point that the problem with Feminism is that it continues to put men and women in two different camps rather than doing what would be both more intelligent and effective, pushing for functional and thought out human rights rather than one-sided women's rights that constantly identify women as weak victims in need of constant protection and men as nothing but aggressors incapable of showing or learning compassionate treatment of others.