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Apocalypse has been frozen for thousands of years Sidious finds his resting place and awakens him with plans on using him.

Apocalypse revolts. In an all out battle who wins?

There's no such thing as an all out battle. It's Sidious going all out for a few seconds before Apocalypse beats his ass, then takes his body to gain the Force.

Sidious laughs loudly at your ridiculous response.

How will Sidious hurt him?

Lightsaber won't get through his forcefield. If he actually hurts him, he'll heal. Apocalypse has far more powerful TK than Sidious, and TK on the level of Phoenix only just started to affect him. He can also de-atomize Sidious' lightsaber, robbing him of his weapon. His lightning will be ineffective as well.

Sidious dies, and you know it.

So someone who can tap into, control, and manipulate the living energy or life force within all living things has no way to hurt Apocalypse? What defense does Apocalypse have against the force? As if force lightning is the only way Sidious can hurt and kill Apocalypse.

Maul can survive having his body split in half but Sidious who is vastly more powerful is going to be de-atomize because Apocalypse has done so to what powerful being or one that even remotely has Sidious powers?

Sidious pins Apocalypse to a wall can force chokes his life out. Or stops his heart.

From what SIdious showed on screen, he indeed has no way to hurt Apocalypse. IN the movies, the Force is telekinesis,, low level telepathy/empathy, pre-cog, enhanced attributes, and lightning.

Care to show some proof as to how Sidious resists Apocalypse city+ level tk and molecular manipulation abilities? I've watched all 6 SW movies, and the CLone Wars toons. He is nowhere near powerful enough to even bother En Sabah Nur or somehow survive his powers.

Hahahaha. Apocalypse has stronger tk brah. We can compare feats if you want.

Can't choke a guy who heals from a gash in his neck in an instant, or who can simply push against the Force tk with his own. It's possible as we see Obi-Wan and Anakin lock in a TK push battle on Mustafar and the backlash sends them both flying.

Apocalypse phases his face into the dirt. Or takes his body and makes the Force his b*tch.

Originally posted by Kotor3
So someone who can tap into, control, and manipulate the living energy or life force within all living things has no way to hurt Apocalypse? What defense does Apocalypse have against the force? As if force lightning is the only way Sidious can hurt and kill Apocalypse.

Maul can survive having his body split in half but Sidious who is vastly more powerful is going to be de-atomize because Apocalypse has done so to what powerful being or one that even remotely has Sidious powers?

Sidious pins Apocalypse to a wall can force chokes his life out. Or stops his heart.

This is the movie vs forum, not fanfiction.net. here we use feats from both characters to decide who would win. now, what feats does Sidious actually have in the movies that make you believe he would win?

I recall Magneto doing city level destruction but when did Apocalypse use TK on that scale?

I answered you molecular manipulation already. Since the force is describe as an energy field within all living things what proof do you have that Apocalypse can manipulate the molecular structure of someone who can control and manipulate the very energy keeping the molecular structure in tact?

How does AP survive without the ability to breathe? Healing from a gash is not the same receiving no air to the brain.

That isn't the way debates work, if you want to claim that Sidious is immune to molecular manipulation, the burden is on you.

Apocalypse turned Cairo into a wasteland to build his pyramid. And 5'000 years ago, he casually built a pyramid out of blocks. Both are on levels so far above Sidious he's not even allowed to think about it.

And like Silent said, we debate based on feats. What feats does Sidious have that win this for him?

Originally posted by Kotor3
I recall Magneto doing city level destruction but when did Apocalypse use TK on that scale?

I answered you molecular manipulation already. Since the force is describe as an energy field within all living things what proof do you have that Apocalypse can manipulate the molecular structure of someone who can control and manipulate the very energy keeping the molecular structure in tact?

How does AP survive without the ability to breathe? Healing from a gash is not the same receiving no air to the brain.

So you missed the part where Apocalypse used his TK to rip apart huge sections of Cairo to build his pyramid?

And that's not an answer. Screen feats count here. Not vague interpretations of wording. So what feats does Sidious actually have that proves he can resist something like being phased into the ground?

And Apocalypse is just going to stand there and be choked? Who has Sidious defeated with Force Choke, onscreen, that has Apocalypse's level and range of powers?

Originally posted by KingD19
Apocalypse turned Cairo into a wasteland to build his pyramid. And 5'000 years ago, he casually built a pyramid out of blocks. Both are on levels so far above Sidious he's not even allowed to think about it.

And like Silent said, we debate based on feats. What feats does Sidious have that win this for him? I will look to watch that scene again. But I was under the impression that he used his power to manipulate advance technology that enabled him to pull of that feat.

Apoc has shown that he can be hit and hurt. Sidious is vastly more superior in speed. I see no reason why Apoc would try to put up a force field when Sidious abilities and weapons would be unknown to him. This would leave Sidious plenty of time to strike him with his lightsaber.

I see no reason why Sidious would not be able to freeze or pin Apoc down like he did Maul and his brother and strike him with a deathblow to head.

Those are two ways I see that he can take out Apoc.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I will look to watch that scene again. But I was under the impression that he used his power to manipulate advance technology that enabled him to pull of that feat.

Apoc has shown that he can be hit and hurt. Sidious is vastly more superior in speed. I see no reason why Apoc would try to put up a force field when Sidious abilities and weapons would be unknown to him. This would leave Sidious plenty of time to strike him with his lightsaber.

I see no reason why Sidious would not be able to freeze or pin Apoc down like he did Maul and his brother and strike him with a deathblow to head.

Those are two ways I see that he can take out Apoc.

Where has Apoc been hurt by someone on Sidious' level and you still haven't proven that he is immune to molecular manipulation, like you claimed.

He makes the pyramid with his own powers, and then further manipulates it.

Sidious is not superior in speed, as Apocalypse caught Quicksilver. Who could blitz every Force User at the same time.

His weapons and abilities would be known. Opponents get basic knowledge of one another.

As soon as the lightsaber turns on, Apocalypse will kill Sidious with it.

I'm gonna tell you why Sidious using TK won't work. Because Apocalype's is stronger.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
So you missed the part where Apocalypse used his TK to rip apart huge sections of Cairo to build his pyramid? Obviously. I have to watch the scene again. I thought tech was used in that feat.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
And that's not an answer. Screen feats count here. Not vague interpretations of wording. So what feats does Sidious actually have that proves he can resist something like being phased into the ground?
I disagree. It is not an interpretation. No force user has ever shown the ability to have their molecular structure manipulated. Sidious does have control over the living life force or energy that keeps living things alive as does any force user. That is why Maul and Anakin did not die from their injuries.

Unless you have some info stating or showing that a force user whose control over the force is to the extent that Sidious has can have their molecular structure manipulated.

Otherwise all you have is an assumption with no bases.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller

And Apocalypse is just going to stand there and be choked? Who has Sidious defeated with Force Choke, onscreen, that has Apocalypse's level and range of powers? Sidious hasn't defeated anyone with force choke that I am aware of. Not because he can't but clearly because he chose not too.

Standing or not he would have to break the effect even if he gets of multiple attacks.

Since you are claiming that force users have resisted molecular manipulation, I'm going to have to ask you to post clips.

Originally posted by KingD19
He makes the pyramid with his own powers, and then further manipulates it.

Sidious is not superior in speed, as Apocalypse caught Quicksilver. Who could blitz every Force User at the same time.

His weapons and abilities would be known. Opponents get basic knowledge of one another.

As soon as the lightsaber turns on, Apocalypse will kill Sidious with it.

I'm gonna tell you why Sidious using TK won't work. Because Apocalype's is stronger. Apoc was able to sense his movements not use superior speed. Sidious is faster than Apoc by much.

As for the TK battle. If TK works the same way for force users as it does for Apoc them you have a point. I'm going to look into that. If so then you are probably right about this battle. I'll respond later.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Apoc was able to sense his movements not use superior speed. Sidious is faster than Apoc by much.

As for the TK battle. If TK works the same way for force users as it does for Apoc them you have a point. I'm going to look into that. If so then you are probably right about this battle. I'll respond later.

But is he faster than QS, a guy that Apoc was able to react to?

Originally posted by Kotor3
I disagree. It is not an interpretation. No force user has ever shown the ability to have their molecular structure manipulated. Sidious does have control over the living life force or energy that keeps living things alive as does any force user. That is why Maul and Anakin did not die from their injuries.

Unless you have some info stating or showing that a force user whose control over the force is to the extent that Sidious has can have their molecular structure manipulated.

Otherwise all you have is an assumption with no bases.


Nope, you are committing a fallacy. When has anyone, onscreen, with Apocalypse's power, tried to manipulate a force user? You are basically saying because it hasn't happened, it can't happen at all. And whoopdie doo. Those two didn't die. Plenty of other Force Users have been killed before, so let's not pretend they're immortal or something.

That's not how debates work. You don't get to say "Sidious is immune" and then expect people to prove you wrong. People don't need to prove negatives in debates.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Nope, you are committing a fallacy. When has anyone, onscreen, with Apocalypse's power, tried to manipulate a force user? You are basically saying because it hasn't happened, it can't happen at all. And whoopdie doo. Those two didn't die. Plenty of other Force Users have been killed before, so let's not pretend they're immortal or something.

That's not how debates work. You don't get to say "Sidious is immune" and then expect people to prove you wrong. People don't need to prove negatives in debates. You are one of the few people on this forum I would have a serious discussion but you are way off here. When did I say Sidious was immune?

I provided a reason why Sidious could resist the attack. It is base on how the force works and how it has been used. Healing in particular. You are basing your statement off of what? If manipulation of matter is such a powerful weapon for Apoc, why didn't he use it on the X-Men and immobilize every one?

Apoc has greater feats of TK, yes. I could also say that Vader does. I have never implied that force users are immortal.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Apoc has greater feats of TK, yes. I could also say that Vader does.

No you couldn't say this.

Originally posted by Kotor3
You are one of the few people on this forum I would have a serious discussion but you are way off here. When did I say Sidious was immune?

I provided a reason why Sidious could resist the attack. It is base on how the force works and how it has been used. Healing in particular. You are basing your statement off of what? If manipulation of matter is such a powerful weapon for Apoc, why didn't he use it on the X-Men and immobilize every one?

Apoc has greater feats of TK, yes. I could also say that Vader does. I have never implied that force users are immortal.

No, what you did was offer and opinion and then provided no feats to back it up.

Now, do you have any actual feats that suggest he could withstand molecular manipulation?

The powers of Apocalypse are insignificant next to the power of the force.




Seriously though, Apocalypse wins.

Go home please.

Originally posted by KingD19
Go home please. I can't fine anything that shows a difference in the TK from a force user, so concede that Sidious would get his saber toss into him.

Though can't say it would kill him since Maul and others survive worse.

Sidious out of a fit of rage could crush Apoc body similarly to what Vader did at the end of ROTS when he was told his love was dead.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I can't fine anything that shows a difference in the TK from a force user, so concede that Sidious would get his saber toss into him.

Though can't say it would kill him since Maul and others survive worse.

Sidious out of a fit of rage could crush Apoc body similarly to what Vader did at the end of ROTS when he was told his love was dead.

Show feats of him doing so to someone/thing of Apoc's durability.

Apocalypse would be in the top 5 force users in SW if he existed in the EU. Canon Sidious gets curbstomped badly, Sidious has no way to breach his shield and has no counter to transmutation.

Even if you're counting Legends/Canon feats Vader has never telekinetically destroyed an entire city or Lifted anything close to a pyramid

Sidious gets crushed.

i'm thinking everyone here just got kotrolled....

Sidious could win if battle started close enough. He could kill him with the lightsaber. Cut his head off.