Darth Malak vs. Kao Cen Darach/Ven Zallow

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



carthage
Fight takes place on the Star Forge

Force, sabers, all out

Trocity
Malak punts them to the nearest moon.

NewGuy01
Team.

Petrus
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Team.

darthbane77
Malak wins without much difficulty tbh.

chingchangwalla
Malak could ragdoll or stun Darach tbh, and he takes Zallow in a good fight.

Petrus
Yeah, Malak wouldn't ragdoll Darach at all.

chingchangwalla
Why not. Just because Padawan Malgus couldn't? Or featless Vindican?

Petrus
As opposed to king of feats Malak?

darthbane77
Malak might not have quantity in feats but he does have quality. His feats are very impressive to say the least.

Petrus
Like?

DarthAnt66
Putting mid-game Revan in stasis (in combat) for over twenty seconds.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Malak stomps, rofl.

carthage
Great argument

darthbane77
Like overpowering Darth Revan in a lightsaber duel, breaking Redeedmed Revan and Bastila's Force shields, pressing Redeemed Revan on the Star Forge considerably, Force pushing Demagol HUNDREDS of feet backwards, among others. Darth Malak surpassed Darth Revan in every way, and Darth Revan would defeat these two with moderate difficulty at most.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by darthbane77
Like overpowering Darth Revan in a lightsaber duel,

Never happened. The only time they dueled he lost his jaw.



Not reliably quantifiable.



--while being fed the force energies of a dozen Jedi.



Saesee Tiin's pushed heavier things dozens of times further.



Neither of these things are true.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by carthage
Great argument

As opposed to the detailed arguments in the team's favor? laughing out loud

Malak defeating Revan on the Leviathan whilst simultaneously holding Carth/Bastila in stasis, then putting Revan in stasis for 20 seconds, only to grow more and more powerful during his time on the Star Forge, coupled with the fact that Zallow and Darach would be weakened, and even further complicated by the Jedi juice boxes Malak gets to snack on, illustrates a pretty obvious outcome to this thread.

Malak stomps, rofl.

darthbane77
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Never happened. The only time they dueled he lost his jaw.



Not reliably quantifiable.



--while being fed the force energies of a dozen Jedi.



Saesee Tiin's pushed heavier things dozens of times further.



Neither of these things are true. Actually, Malak surpassing Revan IS true.

"When Revan fell we had hoped the Sith threat was ended. But Malak quickly assumed Revan's role, and has embraced the dark side power as fully as his old master ever did. Now Malak leads the Sith armada against the Republic. Hate and vengeance for his master's death draw Malak ever further down the path of the dark side, fueling his powers until they surpass those of his old master."

―Vandar Tokare (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

His breaking of Revan and Bastila's shields is testament to his power, and is something that isn't impossible to see him repeating. Zallow and Kao have done nothing suggesting superiority to Darth Revan, and Malak>Darth Revan being true puts him above them as well.

NewGuy01
Thanks for enlightening us with the all-knowing words of Vandar Tokare, who never faced Darth Revan nor Darth Malak, and has no actual clue as to how powerful either of them are. Not that the quote even helps your case anyways; it literally says "until they surpass those of his old master." Derp?

darthbane77
The way he words it makes complete sense to me.

NewGuy01
Thank you for your input. Vandar is still not an authority on Revan or Malak.

carthage
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
As opposed to the detailed arguments in the team's favor? laughing out loud

The team is sporting a duelist more skilled than Malak, and a force user more powerful than Bastila in combative force powers. So yeah.



He put them in stasis while gesturing when their guards aren't up. Count me unimpressed, and secondly how is he going to do that when Zallow will be on his ass in sabers. This is the same Zallow who could blitz the Sith Empire's greatest warriors, hold off Malgus's superior strength, and who scaling is more skilled than Darach, Satele Shan, Vindican, and scores of Jedi Malgus slaughtered throughout his decades in the war. Malak has no feats to suggest he could place on in stasis while simultaneously dueling the other.

,

Nowhere in my OP did I state Malak had the Jedi's strength to draw on, and secondly lesser skilled duelists like Ben Skywalker could blitz Sith while on a nexus while hindered. Unless this amp is qualitatively hindering them to the point of them being ****ed, I'm not seeing how it'd **** them all that much.

Nephthys
Team. Malak isn't all that.

Vandar also doesn't know shit. Dude thinks Malak wants vengeance for Revan, lol.

DarthAnt66
Carth, I might take up this debate with you tomorrow, if you're interested.

I'm not entirely convinced Malak could win here though, to be honest.

SunRazer
Malak has a chance if he uses Stasis on Kao and manages to pull it off. Otherwise, he's going down. The Vandar quote doesn't prove the square root of jack shit either.

Petrus
And also, Revan was already beating him at the Leviathan. He runs away from you and shuts the doors behind. You literally have to chase him. So all his bravado and confidence means nothing, along with Vandar's quotes.

Zallow can go against a Darth Malgus who already has quite a few feats under his belt and fight evenly for a while. And Darach was able to kill Vindican while holding off Malgus, and he only managed to kill Darach whilst enraged. They can take Malak.

|King Joker|
How good is mid-game Revan?

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Petrus
And also, Revan was already beating him at the Leviathan. He runs away from you and shuts the doors behind. You literally have to chase him. So all his bravado and confidence means nothing, along with Vandar's quotes.


Malak relocating isn't indication of him losing, especially when he's telekinetically dominating Revan while doing it.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by |King Joker|
How good is mid-game Revan?

He's the most powerful Jedi of the Order, slaughtered a compound of Sith on Manaan, defeated the most powerful Dark Jedi of the Empire's thousands, etc.

Directly after his loss to Malak, he went to Korriban and shortly thereafter killed "hundreds of Sith," along with the two Headmasters and two terentatek.

Petrus
At least not as good as end-game, according to every character in KOTOR. Not that it makes much difference, considering Malak still lost while in a dark side nexus and a dozen Jedi to feed off of. Truly, the only thing Malak has going for him is beating Bastila 1v1.

Petrus
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Malak relocating isn't indication of him losing, especially when he's telekinetically dominating Revan while doing it.

When did he telekinetically dominate Revan with defenses actually up?

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Petrus
When did he telekinetically dominate Revan with defenses actually up?
He put Revan in whirlwind and stasis in the midst of combat. erm

It's not like he did it while Revan was unprepared. They were fighting and Malak used it.

That's a textbook example of superiority, especially since it happened twice.

Hell, Bastila Shan even states Revan is no match for Malak directly before the fight:

"The power of the Dark Lord is strong enough to destroy any of us... even you. It would be suicide to face Malak here."

Petrus
Malak literally running away from you isn't an indication of his supposed superiority at all. He put Revan in stasis to get away from him. He might've been equal or a bit superior in terms of Force power, but in a straight up duel, he wasn't winning.

Ziggystardust
The fact that he can put someone as knowledgeable and as powerful as Revan in statis for 20 seconds - at a whim - makes me wonder who else he can do it to.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Petrus
Malak literally running away from you isn't an indication of his supposed superiority at all. He put Revan in stasis to get away from him. He might've been equal or a bit superior in terms of Force power, but in a straight up duel, he wasn't winning.
That's blatantly lying when you say he wasn't the vast superior in the Force. Revan was completely helpless in both the whirlwind and stasis instances. Hell, he was incapacitated in stasis for twenty seven seconds. Even after suffering a direct lightsaber attack to the chest via a lightsaber throw, it still remained. Only once he fully engaged himself in combat with Bastila Shan was Revan finally able to break free. That is not indication of them being remotely close in the Force. That's direct proof Malak is significantly more powerful, which is stated by Bastila Shan directly before the fight anyway, so I have no clue why you're disputing it. If Revan was even comparably powerful, he would have broke free in just a few seconds - not have to wait indefinitely until Bastila Shan shows up and begins to fight Revan's foe. In regards to "Malak running," he could have clearly killed Revan in both the whirlwind or stasis instances. However, he opted not to. This is because while Revan was fighting to kill Malak, Malak wanted Revan alive so he could place him in those Star Forge chambers and draw on his power, as Malak later tells Revan in their final fight. Also, the Prima Guide states Malak doesn't run when he's on the losing end of the stick, but rather relocates when he has inflicted enough damage on Revan. Again:

"The power of the Dark Lord is strong enough to destroy any of us... even you. It would be suicide to face Malak here."

Petrus
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That's blatantly lying when you say he wasn't the vast superior in the Force. Revan was completely helpless in both the whirlwind and stasis instances. Hell, he was incapacitated in stasis for twenty seven seconds. Even after suffering a direct lightsaber attack to the chest via a lightsaber throw, it still remained. Only once he fully engaged himself in combat with Bastila Shan was Revan finally able to break free. That is not indication of them being remotely close in the Force. That's direct proof Malak is significantly more powerful, which is stated by Bastila Shan directly before the fight anyway, so I have no clue why you're disputing it. If Revan was even comparably powerful, he would have broke free in just a few seconds - not have to wait indefinitely until Bastila Shan shows up and begins to fight Revan's foe. In regards to "Malak running," he could have clearly killed Revan in both the whirlwind or stasis instances. However, he opted not to. This is because while Revan was fighting to kill Malak, Malak wanted Revan alive so he could place him in those Star Forge chambers and draw on his power, as Malak later tells Revan in their final fight. Also, the Prima Guide states Malak doesn't run when he's on the losing end of the stick, but rather relocates when he has inflicted enough damage on Revan. Again:

"The power of the Dark Lord is strong enough to destroy any of us... even you. It would be suicide to face Malak here."

Ah, the Prima Guide quote clears it up, then. I was always under the impression that Malak was running away from you. It doesn't make much sense though, considering after the Leviathan you only have one more planet to go and then you go to Lehon, if I'm not mistaken. So Revan became drastically more powerful during such a short period of time?

Bastila's quote means shit, though. She stated the same thing when you face her on Lehon, and Malak states it again when you face off against him at the Star Forge. Either way, I said he might be Revan's superior in terms of Force power, but in terms of lightsaber combat, nothing suggests Malak had the upper hand. So at least in that area, Revan is already his equal/superior as of mid-game.

As I said before, not that it actually matters. Malak still lost when amped by a powerful nexus and draining the power of a dozen Jedi to a not-nearly-peak Revan.

Rebel95
I'm gonna have to go with the team on this one, in a tough fight though.

DarthAnt66

Petrus
Damn it it won't let me quote.

Petrus
I have to go but I'll reply tonight or tomorrow.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
The fact that he can put someone as knowledgeable and as powerful as Revan in statis for 20 seconds - at a whim - makes me wonder who else he can do it to.

Amnesiac Revan is as knowledgeable as a dude with brain damage and not near as powerful as he would become.

darthbane77
Originally posted by Nephthys
Amnesiac Revan is as knowledgeable as a dude with brain damage and not near as powerful as he would become. But he was still very powerful, and breaking Revan's Force defenses is an admirable feat to say the least.

NewGuy01
How powerful, exactly? Because I don't think he took out anyone stronger than Bandon prior to the Leviathan.

DarthAnt66
Who happens to be the most powerful Dark Jedi out of thousands, and was referred to thousands of years after his death.

NewGuy01
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

SunRazer
Malak running away is probably plain stupid writing. Like Vrook running away after Stunning the Exile's party, lol.

Petrus
Okay, for some reason it doesn't let me quote you directly so I'll just do it manually.




Is there proof for this or is this based on logic and deduction? It seems believable enough, but we can't really know. Senses can also deceive a Jedi.



It may be.
It's possible.
Could be.

smile smile



Meh, I'm not convinced. It doesn't say Revan was losing or that he couldn't hold up against his strikes.

As I've said, not that it really matters. Malak's best feats other than showing Force superiority over a Revan that wasn't even the most powerful incarnation in the game, are not that good.

Also, you can't say he basically beat a Revan who had slaughtered the Sith Academy and 2 Terentateks, because even though the Leviathan encounter was right before Revan went to Korriban, it's very clear that his power was very rapidly increasing, considering he only went to Korriban before heading to Lehon and the Star Forge. In reality, Leviathan wasn't mid-game Revan. He only had Korriban to go before the last mission.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.