Cassandra Cain Vs X-23

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riv6672
No prep
No BFR.
Standard gear.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/4c/0c/b5/4c0cb51d3f995d1e6bd1d4b2925d5623.jpg

riv6672
This must be too manly a match up.

leonidas
that HF makes things tough. could be a simple case of laura winning via attrition after a hugely long battle. cass is no doubt more skilled, but putting laura down strictly h2h? that would be a tall order given some of laura's durability feats.

golem370
X because of her outfit and because Cassandra is a Batman character.

riv6672
Originally posted by golem370
...because Cassandra is a Batman character.
^^^which usually means nerve strikes FTW. erm

StiltmanFTW
Laura.

Heals faster than Logan, defeated Taskmaster.

Zack M
Cassandra Cain just beat Midnighter. She wins. shifty

abhilegend
Cassie wins.

riv6672
Cass beat Midnighter?!?

Decter
Cass

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by riv6672
Cass beat Midnighter?!?

That shifty smilie makes me unsure. Scans/issue #/context, Golgo?

But the new Midnighter is not the same as the classic version. Grayson manhandled him, even going as far as grabbing him by his throat and saying he probably wouldn't need any tricks to beat his ass...

celeyhyga17
http://9thcivic.com/gallery/albums/post/joker_eatin_popcorn_by_capnectoplasm_d39sa07_1.gif

Magnon
I'd say Cass is stronger, faster, and more skilled. She also has better standard gear. Laura, on the other hand, can soak and inflict (if she hits) more damage.

Cassandra 7/10.

Zack M
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
That shifty smilie makes me unsure. Scans/issue #/context, Golgo?

But the new Midnighter is not the same as the classic version. Grayson manhandled him, even going as far as grabbing him by his throat and saying he probably wouldn't need any tricks to beat his ass...

sigh, we've been over this time and time again. NW never manhandled Midnighter and even in Batman: Eternal, Midnighter made the whole Bat Family look inferior.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Magnon
I'd say Cass is stronger, faster, and more skilled. She also has better standard gear. Laura, on the other hand, can soak and inflict (if she hits) more damage.

Cassandra 7/10.

Stronger? Laura blocked a punch from Vamp Jubilee.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Zack M
sigh, we've been over this time and time again. NW never manhandled Midnighter and even in Batman: Eternal, Midnighter made the whole Bat Family look inferior.

He did manhandle him... with inferior moves he learned as a kid laughing out loud

http://tinyurl.com/p7mmz7x

Zack M
Show the scans.

StiltmanFTW
You've seen them.

So, you know Nightwing's moves... tell me... do you know Robin's? *kicks MN's butt* laughing out loud

Zack M
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You've seen them.

So, you know Nightwing's moves... tell me... do you know Robin's? *kicks MN's butt* laughing out loud

Sorry, never happened. In fact, without Spyral hypnosis, Grayson wouldn't stand a chance, plus the fact that Midnighter had the upperhand at the end.

http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o589/lupinw45/MN_zpslcg38xss.png

http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o589/lupinw45/MN2_zpsmfwfwm23.png

http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o589/lupinw45/MN3_zpseujvkkds.png

StiltmanFTW
Great job at leaving out the scans, Golgo wink

Zack M
Just stop. laughing out loud

StiltmanFTW
Just post Dick choking MN and mocking him and maybe I will stop smile

Zack M
no Midnighter>>>Grayson. Stop your trolling, already.



http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o589/lupinw45/MN3_zpsywyo99on.jpg

StiltmanFTW
Stop your selective scan posting.

MN has underperformed in that fight, compared to what his old self should've been capable of... that is a fact.

krisblaze
Stomp for X-23.

Zack M
laughing out loud Right, because of implants. Midnighter had the upper hand. Plus, Midnighter just took down the Suicide Squad not too long ago. It's you who is being selective. Grayson NEVER beat Midnighter.

StiltmanFTW
MN barely managed to save his face, more like.

Zack M
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
MN barely managed to save his face, more like.

MN faced Grayson in his OWN book and still managed to get the better of him. The only time Midnighter has ever lost was against Afterthought. He has basically the same enhancements from his WS days.

StiltmanFTW
https://s4.postimg.org/dzr2e12ct/bner.png

http://i.imgur.com/VQLGJOL.gif

Zack M
Like I said, NW never beat Midnighter. Nice try. wink

riv6672
NW and Midnighter are such gentlemen, taking this thread for the girls so neither breaks a nail. big grin

StiltmanFTW
Dick is a gentleman, but MN simply sees this as a perfect opportunity to bed him:

http://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Midnighter-Grayson-2.jpg

riv6672
Huh!

RadZoa
Cass should win this without too much difficulty. X-23 isn;t a very skilled fighter.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by RadZoa
Cass should win this without too much difficulty. X-23 isn;t a very skilled fighter.

Almost as good as this:

Originally posted by RadZoa
Daredevil is more on Tim Drakes level TBH

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKuZ1Ep3CXai4hy/200w.gif https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKuZ1Ep3CXai4hy/200w.gif https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKuZ1Ep3CXai4hy/200w.gif https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKuZ1Ep3CXai4hy/200w.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKuZ1Ep3CXai4hy/200w.gif https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKuZ1Ep3CXai4hy/200w.gif https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKuZ1Ep3CXai4hy/200w.gif https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKuZ1Ep3CXai4hy/200w.gif

JayDaDon
laughing laughing laughing

Zack M
Cass does stomp, though. She's a better fighter than even Batman, per new 52.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Zack M
Cass does stomp, though. She's a better fighter than even Batman, per new 52.

And?

Laura took a bullet to her goddamn brain and it didn't even slow her down:

http://i.imgur.com/4PW398T.jpg

She only needs to land one good hit in this fight.

psycho gundam
Prep's in a bind now

Zack M
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And?

Laura took a bullet to her goddamn brain and it didn't even slow her down:

http://i.imgur.com/4PW398T.jpg

She only needs to land one good hit in this fight.

Cassandra's fists>>>>bullets. Fact.

Zack M
X-23 is street level. Cassandra is super soldier plus.

StiltmanFTW
laughing out loud

Take your meds, please.

Zack M
X-23 got owned by Cyclops. She isn't even trash level. Fact.

riv6672
Either both arent street level or both are at the high end of yhe street level spectrum. Opinion.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Zack M
X-23 got owned by Cyclops. She isn't even trash level. Fact.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
laughing out loud

Take your meds, please.

Zack M
Originally posted by riv6672
Either both arent street level or both are at the high end of yhe street level spectrum. Opinion.

Yeah, Cass just owned a bunch of colony soldiers who owned Batman.

riv6672
Nice.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Zack M
X-23 got owned by Cyclops. She isn't even trash level. Fact.

As if I needed any more reason to ban you.

Zack M
Originally posted by -Pr-
As if I needed any more reason to ban you.

KMC needs me. shifty

StiltmanFTW
Like we need skin rash...

Zack M
rolling on floor laughing

StiltmanFTW
https://66.media.tumblr.com/52170987c3915583cf4400796ca917c1/tumblr_o9v3eeXFOH1vv1frwo4_500.gif

riv6672
Cyclops judo flipped her old man once. laughing out loud

krisblaze
Laura heals even faster than Wolverine.

DarkSaint85
What is standard gear for Cass?

riv6672
Looks like she's at least dipped into the Batarang pouch.
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/66303/1470100-image.jpeg


So what's standard gear in a utility belt? Aside from the infamous gas pellets.
http://66.media.tumblr.com/b1255d0cb9ab8f73847e5f374859e8f0/tumblr_n12nx85Bf81r3h41qo3_r1_400.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xabx0o9lbNc/ToTcDJVTBpI/AAAAAAAAJ7Q/7akS4bV2V-Y/s1600/tumblr_ls3ocuH5ax1qcs3pdo1_500.jpg

RadZoa
Who has X23 ever beaten?

Magnon
Originally posted by RadZoa
Who has X23 ever beaten?
Logan. Captain America. Taskmaster. Lady Deathstrike. The Collector. Spider-Man.

riv6672
What about them?

RadZoa
Originally posted by Magnon
Logan. Captain America. Taskmaster. Lady Deathstrike. The Collector. Spider-Man. And she beat all of them legitimately, straight up, no circumstances?

Magnon
Originally posted by RadZoa
And she beat all of them legitimately, straight up, no circumstances?
Yeah, legitimate wins for Laura. She didn't have external help and only relied on her skills and powers.

leonidas
Originally posted by Magnon
Logan. Captain America. Taskmaster. Lady Deathstrike. The Collector. Spider-Man.

wut?

she MAY have had pete in a comprising position but that doesn't mean she won the fight. when and where did she fight cap?? she did beat taskmaster and deathstrike and she took our collector though. surviving in space unaided is one of her better durability feats.

cass is really really good, but laura is just too much for her imo.

Zack M
Originally posted by leonidas
wut?

she MAY have had pete in a comprising position but that doesn't mean she won the fight. when and where did she fight cap?? she did beat taskmaster and deathstrike and she took our collector though. surviving in space unaided is one of her better durability feats.

cass is really really good, but laura is just too much for her imo.

What about Cassies showing against Deathstroke?

http://67.media.tumblr.com/f7c0263b9265b10a2b74f9b005fdabae/tumblr_nul18qK1VM1rzzee8o2_1280.png

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by leonidas
wut?

she MAY have had pete in a comprising position but that doesn't mean she won the fight. when and where did she fight cap?? she did beat taskmaster and deathstrike and she took our collector though. surviving in space unaided is one of her better durability feats.

cass is really really good, but laura is just too much for her imo.

She had Parker pinned and dead to rights.

I don't recall her and Steve fighting, they had only brief skirmishes, to my knowledge. Last one very recently, she tranquilized Steve, preventing him from stopping Logan's escape.

Taskmaster got suckered by the foot claw, but hey, his own fault...

Collector got cheapshotted.

Wolverine didn't want to hurt her, refused to even pop his claws at first.

---
Anyway, I'm still going with Laura here, while Mag actually gave 7/10 to Cassie stick out tongue

Zack M
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
She had Parker pinned and dead to rights.

I don't recall her and Steve fighting, they had only brief skirmishes, to my knowledge. Last one very recently, she tranquilized Steve, preventing him from stopping Logan's escape.

Taskmaster got suckered by the foot claw, but hey, his own fault...

Collector got cheapshotted.

Wolverine didn't want to hurt her, refused to even pop his claws at first.

---
Anyway, I'm still going with Laura here, while Mag actually gave 7/10 to Cassie stick out tongue

What about DCnU Rose Wilson? How does X-23 do against her?

StiltmanFTW
I won't lie, Golgo - I have no idea how formidable Ravager is in the new 52... same with Cassie, actually.

I think mostly of pre-Flashpoint versions when I post, unless they are big names .

RadZoa
Originally posted by Magnon
Yeah, legitimate wins for Laura. She didn't have external help and only relied on her skills and powers. Really?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
She had Parker pinned and dead to rights.

I don't recall her and Steve fighting, they had only brief skirmishes, to my knowledge. Last one very recently, she tranquilized Steve, preventing him from stopping Logan's escape.

Taskmaster got suckered by the foot claw, but hey, his own fault...

Collector got cheapshotted.

Wolverine didn't want to hurt her, refused to even pop his claws at first.

---
Anyway, I'm still going with Laura here, while Mag actually gave 7/10 to Cassie stick out tongue

According to Stilt all of those fights seem extremely circumstantial.

StiltmanFTW
Almost all, but yeah.

leonidas
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
She had Parker pinned and dead to rights.

I don't recall her and Steve fighting, they had only brief skirmishes, to my knowledge. Last one very recently, she tranquilized Steve, preventing him from stopping Logan's escape.

Taskmaster got suckered by the foot claw, but hey, his own fault...

Collector got cheapshotted.

Wolverine didn't want to hurt her, refused to even pop his claws at first.

---
Anyway, I'm still going with Laura here, while Mag actually gave 7/10 to Cassie stick out tongue

she's taken it to logan and daken both a couple times and come off looking really good.

she pinned pete, who was still in clowning mode. lol that fight was far from over and you know it hater. stick out tongue

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by leonidas
she's taken it to logan and daken both a couple times and come off looking really good.

Had the help from Pixie and Armor when she faced Daken on the Utopia island.

Stalemated him in the X-23/Daken cross-over later. Stupid editors, basically made it seem like their first encounter. Same problem with Wolverine vs. Laura, actually... being a Marvel editor must be a wonderful job - all that cash for doing the whole lot of nothing.

Originally posted by leonidas
she pinned pete, who was still in clowning mode. lol that fight was far from over and you know it hater. stick out tongue

It's the same thing with Deadpool. Are we going to keep making those excuses for them? Really?

He fought her, used his webbing even... and failed. Took the worst of the fall and was at the mercy of her claws. She was holding Pete by his throat - one snikt would've sufficed.

leonidas
cuz every time he's been pinned or looked like he was gonna die, he's died, right? this isn't an excuse, this just wasn't one of those definitive fights imo.

http://orig06.deviantart.net/4813/f/2012/200/6/c/spiderman_vs_x23_by_100hypersonic-d57uvxz.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/148182/2923451-1162816_02_super.jpg

he seemed pretty concerned at the end there. lol

and wait, did you just criticize me for making excuses then say the daken/logan fights were the EDITORS fault?? blink

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by leonidas
cuz every time he's been pinned or looked like he was gonna die, he's died, right? this isn't an excuse, this just wasn't one of those definitive fights imo.

http://orig06.deviantart.net/4813/f/2012/200/6/c/spiderman_vs_x23_by_100hypersonic-d57uvxz.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/148182/2923451-1162816_02_super.jpg

he seemed pretty concerned at the end there. lol

The only way for it to get more definitive would be by killing Parker and that's something that just wouldn't happen stick out tongue

But I see what you're saying, let's agree to disagree on that.

Originally posted by leonidas
and wait, did you just criticize me for making excuses then say the daken/logan fights were the EDITORS fault?? blink

The clowning. That's an essential part of Parker's character.

No, you misunderstood. The fights themselves were fine, I just don't like it how Laura met Wolverine (and Daken) for the first time ever... TWICE. In the same continuity.

leonidas
thumb up

iceman24567
Yeah the more shit hits the fan the more Parker clowns its how he deals

leonidas
his biggest fights, the life and death ones, he doesn't clown. he went all out against hulk, no clowing, his classic against logan, no clowning, his worst fights with goblin, no clowning, po'd against taskmaster, no clowning. morlun, no clowning, or it stopped when he realized how bad it was. i remember a huge battle with ock, and again, no clowning. when sh!t gets REALLY real, he no longer clowns. /shrug

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by leonidas
when sh!t gets REALLY real, he no longer clowns. /shrug

And still gets pwned... shifty

leonidas
nutkick

StyleTime
Originally posted by Magnon
I'd say Cass is stronger, faster, and more skilled. She also has better standard gear. Laura, on the other hand, can soak and inflict (if she hits) more damage.

Cassandra 7/10.
Meh, they're both low end bullet timers, so speed won't be a factor. Cassandra might be able to like...complete a double back flip faster but I think the their reflexes are essentially the same. Here's a bullet deflection scan for Laura if you don't believe me.
https://s16.postimg.org/5rdbkvjjl/X_23_Bullet_Deflect.jpg


Strength is debatable too. Cassandra is more skilled, but Laura is just a bad matchup for her. She'll start off strong, then fade as Laura continues to heal while landing her own shots. Cass just lacks the damage output to finish this without getting stabbed repeatedly.
Originally posted by krisblaze
Laura heals even faster than Wolverine.
Her healing factor is insanely consistent too. I can count the number of legit KO's she's had on one hand. Anything less than a grenade may as well be a water balloon.

StiltmanFTW
Good to see you again, Style.

RadZoa
What exactly is the difference between a low end and a high end bullet timer?

DarkSaint85
The manner in which they do it, the number of bullets, I guess.

Bullet timing a random thug with a pistol is one thing. Bullet timing Deadshot/Hawkeye with a machine sniper rifle is another.

leonidas
Originally posted by StyleTime
Meh, they're both low end bullet timers, so speed won't be a factor. Cassandra might be able to like...complete a double back flip faster but I think the their reflexes are essentially the same. Here's a bullet deflection scan for Laura if you don't believe me.
https://s16.postimg.org/5rdbkvjjl/X_23_Bullet_Deflect.jpg


Strength is debatable too. Cassandra is more skilled, but Laura is just a bad matchup for her. She'll start off strong, then fade as Laura continues to heal while landing her own shots. Cass just lacks the damage output to finish this without getting stabbed repeatedly.

Her healing factor is insanely consistent too. I can count the number of legit KO's she's had on one hand. Anything less than a grenade may as well be a water balloon.

thumb up

StiltmanFTW
Laura is pretty damn skilled, too. "Trained from birth", "world class assassin", etc.

leonidas
laura vs rand, who takes it? big grin

riv6672
This thread still going? Huh.

StyleTime
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Good to see you again, Style.
How's it going? Figured I'd peep in and saw this thread. Don't know why people think Cassandra can punch/kick her way out of this when fighter jet missiles are a only mild annoyance for X.
Originally posted by RadZoa
What exactly is the difference between a low end and a high end bullet timer?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The manner in which they do it, the number of bullets, I guess.

Bullet timing a random thug with a pistol is one thing. Bullet timing Deadshot/Hawkeye with a machine sniper rifle is another.
Pretty much. It's just a personal metric I use, so feel free to disregard it. I feel there has to be some dividing line though for street speed though. It can't be "block/dodge a bullet and you're immune to getting shot and equal to Gorgon."

On the low end, we have folks like X-23, Batgirl, Deadpool, Daredevil, Taskmaster, Blade, Psylocke, Valkryie, etc. These people can deflect/catch/dodge sporadic shots, but must resort to aim dodging against large volleys of gunfire.

On the higher end are people that can comfortably react to sustained gunfire from automatic weapons, especially when fired from "named" opponents. Think Gorgon, Mr. X or maybe Wonder Girl.

Obviously, we could refine the definitions, include a mid tier, and come up with a cap for the high tier. I think there's got to be a line though. No one would place Deadpool or Psylocke alongside Gorgon despite them all having bullet time feats. It's simply not the same level of speed.

leonidas
that sounds fair, and yeah, laura is def too much for cass. thumb up

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