Cassandra Cain Vs X-23
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riv6672
No prep
No BFR.
Standard gear.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/4c/0c/b5/4c0cb51d3f995d1e6bd1d4b2925d5623.jpg
riv6672
This must be too manly a match up.
leonidas
that HF makes things tough. could be a simple case of laura winning via attrition after a hugely long battle. cass is no doubt more skilled, but putting laura down strictly h2h? that would be a tall order given some of laura's durability feats.
golem370
X because of her outfit and because Cassandra is a Batman character.
riv6672
Originally posted by golem370
...because Cassandra is a Batman character.
^^^which usually means nerve strikes FTW.
StiltmanFTW
Laura.
Heals faster than Logan, defeated Taskmaster.
Zack M
Cassandra Cain just beat Midnighter. She wins.
riv6672
Cass beat Midnighter?!?
StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by riv6672
Cass beat Midnighter?!?
That shifty smilie makes me unsure. Scans/issue #/context, Golgo?
But the new Midnighter is not the same as the classic version. Grayson manhandled him, even going as far as grabbing him by his throat and saying he probably wouldn't need any tricks to beat his ass...
celeyhyga17
http://9thcivic.com/gallery/albums/post/joker_eatin_popcorn_by_capnectoplasm_d39sa07_1.gif
Magnon
I'd say Cass is stronger, faster, and more skilled. She also has better standard gear. Laura, on the other hand, can soak and inflict (if she hits) more damage.
Cassandra 7/10.
Zack M
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
That shifty smilie makes me unsure. Scans/issue #/context, Golgo?
But the new Midnighter is not the same as the classic version. Grayson manhandled him, even going as far as grabbing him by his throat and saying he probably wouldn't need any tricks to beat his ass...
sigh, we've been over this time and time again. NW never manhandled Midnighter and even in Batman: Eternal, Midnighter made the whole Bat Family look inferior.
StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Magnon
I'd say Cass is stronger, faster, and more skilled. She also has better standard gear. Laura, on the other hand, can soak and inflict (if she hits) more damage.
Cassandra 7/10.
Stronger? Laura blocked a punch from Vamp Jubilee.
StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Zack M
sigh, we've been over this time and time again. NW never manhandled Midnighter and even in Batman: Eternal, Midnighter made the whole Bat Family look inferior.
He did manhandle him... with inferior moves he learned as a kid
http://tinyurl.com/p7mmz7x
StiltmanFTW
You've seen them.
So, you know Nightwing's moves... tell me... do you know Robin's? *kicks MN's butt*
Zack M
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You've seen them.
So, you know Nightwing's moves... tell me... do you know Robin's? *kicks MN's butt*
Sorry, never happened. In fact, without Spyral hypnosis, Grayson wouldn't stand a chance, plus the fact that Midnighter had the upperhand at the end.
http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o589/lupinw45/MN_zpslcg38xss.png
http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o589/lupinw45/MN2_zpsmfwfwm23.png
http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o589/lupinw45/MN3_zpseujvkkds.png
StiltmanFTW
Great job at leaving out the scans, Golgo
Zack M
Just stop.
StiltmanFTW
Just post Dick choking MN and mocking him and maybe I will stop
Zack M
Midnighter>>>Grayson. Stop your trolling, already.
http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o589/lupinw45/MN3_zpsywyo99on.jpg
StiltmanFTW
Stop your selective scan posting.
MN has underperformed in that fight, compared to what his old self should've been capable of... that is a fact.
Zack M
Right, because of implants. Midnighter had the upper hand. Plus, Midnighter just took down the Suicide Squad not too long ago. It's you who is being selective. Grayson NEVER beat Midnighter.
StiltmanFTW
MN barely managed to save his face, more like.
Zack M
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
MN barely managed to save his face, more like.
MN faced Grayson in his OWN book and still managed to get the better of him. The only time Midnighter has ever lost was against Afterthought. He has basically the same enhancements from his WS days.
StiltmanFTW
https://s4.postimg.org/dzr2e12ct/bner.png
http://i.imgur.com/VQLGJOL.gif
Zack M
Like I said, NW never beat Midnighter. Nice try.
riv6672
NW and Midnighter are such gentlemen, taking this thread for the girls so neither breaks a nail.
StiltmanFTW
Dick is a gentleman, but MN simply sees this as a perfect opportunity to bed him:
http://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Midnighter-Grayson-2.jpg
RadZoa
Cass should win this without too much difficulty. X-23 isn;t a very skilled fighter.
StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by RadZoa
Cass should win this without too much difficulty. X-23 isn;t a very skilled fighter.
Almost as good as this:
Originally posted by RadZoa
Daredevil is more on Tim Drakes level TBH
https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKuZ1Ep3CXai4hy/200w.gif https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKuZ1Ep3CXai4hy/200w.gif https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKuZ1Ep3CXai4hy/200w.gif https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKuZ1Ep3CXai4hy/200w.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKuZ1Ep3CXai4hy/200w.gif https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKuZ1Ep3CXai4hy/200w.gif https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKuZ1Ep3CXai4hy/200w.gif https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKuZ1Ep3CXai4hy/200w.gif
Zack M
Cass does stomp, though. She's a better fighter than even Batman, per new 52.
StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Zack M
Cass does stomp, though. She's a better fighter than even Batman, per new 52.
And?
Laura took a bullet to her goddamn brain and it didn't even slow her down:
http://i.imgur.com/4PW398T.jpg
She only needs to land one good hit in this fight.
psycho gundam
Prep's in a bind now
Zack M
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And?
Laura took a bullet to her goddamn brain and it didn't even slow her down:
http://i.imgur.com/4PW398T.jpg
She only needs to land one good hit in this fight.
Cassandra's fists>>>>bullets. Fact.
Zack M
X-23 is street level. Cassandra is super soldier plus.
StiltmanFTW
Take your meds, please.
Zack M
X-23 got owned by Cyclops. She isn't even trash level. Fact.
riv6672
Either both arent street level or both are at the high end of yhe street level spectrum. Opinion.
StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Zack M
X-23 got owned by Cyclops. She isn't even trash level. Fact.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Take your meds, please.
Zack M
Originally posted by riv6672
Either both arent street level or both are at the high end of yhe street level spectrum. Opinion.
Yeah, Cass just owned a bunch of colony soldiers who owned Batman.
-Pr-
Originally posted by Zack M
X-23 got owned by Cyclops. She isn't even trash level. Fact.
As if I needed any more reason to ban you.
Zack M
Originally posted by -Pr-
As if I needed any more reason to ban you.
KMC needs me.
StiltmanFTW
Like we need skin rash...
StiltmanFTW
https://66.media.tumblr.com/52170987c3915583cf4400796ca917c1/tumblr_o9v3eeXFOH1vv1frwo4_500.gif
riv6672
Cyclops judo flipped her old man once.
krisblaze
Laura heals even faster than Wolverine.
DarkSaint85
What is standard gear for Cass?
riv6672
Looks like she's at least dipped into the Batarang pouch.
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/66303/1470100-image.jpeg
So what's standard gear in a utility belt? Aside from the infamous gas pellets.
http://66.media.tumblr.com/b1255d0cb9ab8f73847e5f374859e8f0/tumblr_n12nx85Bf81r3h41qo3_r1_400.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xabx0o9lbNc/ToTcDJVTBpI/AAAAAAAAJ7Q/7akS4bV2V-Y/s1600/tumblr_ls3ocuH5ax1qcs3pdo1_500.jpg
RadZoa
Who has X23 ever beaten?
Magnon
Originally posted by RadZoa
Who has X23 ever beaten?
Logan. Captain America. Taskmaster. Lady Deathstrike. The Collector. Spider-Man.
RadZoa
Originally posted by Magnon
Logan. Captain America. Taskmaster. Lady Deathstrike. The Collector. Spider-Man. And she beat all of them legitimately, straight up, no circumstances?
Magnon
Originally posted by RadZoa
And she beat all of them legitimately, straight up, no circumstances?
Yeah, legitimate wins for Laura. She didn't have external help and only relied on her skills and powers.
leonidas
Originally posted by Magnon
Logan. Captain America. Taskmaster. Lady Deathstrike. The Collector. Spider-Man.
wut?
she MAY have had pete in a comprising position but that doesn't mean she won the fight. when and where did she fight cap?? she did beat taskmaster and deathstrike and she took our collector though. surviving in space unaided is one of her better durability feats.
cass is really really good, but laura is just too much for her imo.
Zack M
Originally posted by leonidas
wut?
she MAY have had pete in a comprising position but that doesn't mean she won the fight. when and where did she fight cap?? she did beat taskmaster and deathstrike and she took our collector though. surviving in space unaided is one of her better durability feats.
cass is really really good, but laura is just too much for her imo.
What about Cassies showing against Deathstroke?
http://67.media.tumblr.com/f7c0263b9265b10a2b74f9b005fdabae/tumblr_nul18qK1VM1rzzee8o2_1280.png
StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by leonidas
wut?
she MAY have had pete in a comprising position but that doesn't mean she won the fight. when and where did she fight cap?? she did beat taskmaster and deathstrike and she took our collector though. surviving in space unaided is one of her better durability feats.
cass is really really good, but laura is just too much for her imo.
She had Parker pinned and dead to rights.
I don't recall her and Steve fighting, they had only brief skirmishes, to my knowledge. Last one very recently, she tranquilized Steve, preventing him from stopping Logan's escape.
Taskmaster got suckered by the foot claw, but hey, his own fault...
Collector got cheapshotted.
Wolverine didn't want to hurt her, refused to even pop his claws at first.
---
Anyway, I'm still going with Laura here, while Mag actually gave 7/10 to Cassie
Zack M
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
She had Parker pinned and dead to rights.
I don't recall her and Steve fighting, they had only brief skirmishes, to my knowledge. Last one very recently, she tranquilized Steve, preventing him from stopping Logan's escape.
Taskmaster got suckered by the foot claw, but hey, his own fault...
Collector got cheapshotted.
Wolverine didn't want to hurt her, refused to even pop his claws at first.
---
Anyway, I'm still going with Laura here, while Mag actually gave 7/10 to Cassie
What about DCnU Rose Wilson? How does X-23 do against her?
StiltmanFTW
I won't lie, Golgo - I have no idea how formidable Ravager is in the new 52... same with Cassie, actually.
I think mostly of pre-Flashpoint versions when I post, unless they are big names .
RadZoa
Originally posted by Magnon
Yeah, legitimate wins for Laura. She didn't have external help and only relied on her skills and powers. Really?
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
She had Parker pinned and dead to rights.
I don't recall her and Steve fighting, they had only brief skirmishes, to my knowledge. Last one very recently, she tranquilized Steve, preventing him from stopping Logan's escape.
Taskmaster got suckered by the foot claw, but hey, his own fault...
Collector got cheapshotted.
Wolverine didn't want to hurt her, refused to even pop his claws at first.
---
Anyway, I'm still going with Laura here, while Mag actually gave 7/10 to Cassie
According to Stilt all of those fights seem extremely circumstantial.
StiltmanFTW
Almost all, but yeah.
leonidas
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
She had Parker pinned and dead to rights.
I don't recall her and Steve fighting, they had only brief skirmishes, to my knowledge. Last one very recently, she tranquilized Steve, preventing him from stopping Logan's escape.
Taskmaster got suckered by the foot claw, but hey, his own fault...
Collector got cheapshotted.
Wolverine didn't want to hurt her, refused to even pop his claws at first.
---
Anyway, I'm still going with Laura here, while Mag actually gave 7/10 to Cassie
she's taken it to logan and daken both a couple times and come off looking really good.
she pinned pete, who was still in clowning mode. lol that fight was far from over and you know it hater.
StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by leonidas
she's taken it to logan and daken both a couple times and come off looking really good.
Had the help from Pixie and Armor when she faced Daken on the Utopia island.
Stalemated him in the X-23/Daken cross-over later. Stupid editors, basically made it seem like their first encounter. Same problem with Wolverine vs. Laura, actually... being a Marvel editor must be a wonderful job - all that cash for doing the whole lot of nothing.
Originally posted by leonidas
she pinned pete, who was still in clowning mode. lol that fight was far from over and you know it hater.
It's the same thing with Deadpool. Are we going to keep making those excuses for them? Really?
He fought her, used his webbing even... and failed. Took the worst of the fall and was at the mercy of her claws. She was holding Pete by his throat - one snikt would've sufficed.
leonidas
cuz every time he's been pinned or looked like he was gonna die, he's died, right? this isn't an excuse, this just wasn't one of those definitive fights imo.
http://orig06.deviantart.net/4813/f/2012/200/6/c/spiderman_vs_x23_by_100hypersonic-d57uvxz.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/148182/2923451-1162816_02_super.jpg
he seemed pretty concerned at the end there. lol
and wait, did you just criticize me for making excuses then say the daken/logan fights were the EDITORS fault??
StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by leonidas
cuz every time he's been pinned or looked like he was gonna die, he's died, right? this isn't an excuse, this just wasn't one of those definitive fights imo.
http://orig06.deviantart.net/4813/f/2012/200/6/c/spiderman_vs_x23_by_100hypersonic-d57uvxz.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/148182/2923451-1162816_02_super.jpg
he seemed pretty concerned at the end there. lol
The only way for it to get more definitive would be by killing Parker and that's something that just wouldn't happen
But I see what you're saying, let's agree to disagree on that.
Originally posted by leonidas
and wait, did you just criticize me for making excuses then say the daken/logan fights were the EDITORS fault??
The clowning. That's an essential part of Parker's character.
No, you misunderstood. The fights themselves were fine, I just don't like it how Laura met Wolverine (and Daken) for the first time ever... TWICE. In the same continuity.
iceman24567
Yeah the more shit hits the fan the more Parker clowns its how he deals
leonidas
his biggest fights, the life and death ones, he doesn't clown. he went all out against hulk, no clowing, his classic against logan, no clowning, his worst fights with goblin, no clowning, po'd against taskmaster, no clowning. morlun, no clowning, or it stopped when he realized how bad it was. i remember a huge battle with ock, and again, no clowning. when sh!t gets REALLY real, he no longer clowns. /shrug
StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by leonidas
when sh!t gets REALLY real, he no longer clowns. /shrug
And still gets pwned...
StyleTime
Originally posted by Magnon
I'd say Cass is stronger, faster, and more skilled. She also has better standard gear. Laura, on the other hand, can soak and inflict (if she hits) more damage.
Cassandra 7/10.
Meh, they're both low end bullet timers, so speed won't be a factor. Cassandra might be able to like...complete a double back flip faster but I think the their reflexes are essentially the same. Here's a bullet deflection scan for Laura if you don't believe me.
https://s16.postimg.org/5rdbkvjjl/X_23_Bullet_Deflect.jpg
Strength is debatable too. Cassandra is more skilled, but Laura is just a bad matchup for her. She'll start off strong, then fade as Laura continues to heal while landing her own shots. Cass just lacks the damage output to finish this without getting stabbed repeatedly.
Originally posted by krisblaze
Laura heals even faster than Wolverine.
Her healing factor is insanely consistent too. I can count the number of legit KO's she's had on one hand. Anything less than a grenade may as well be a water balloon.
StiltmanFTW
Good to see you again, Style.
RadZoa
What exactly is the difference between a low end and a high end bullet timer?
DarkSaint85
The manner in which they do it, the number of bullets, I guess.
Bullet timing a random thug with a pistol is one thing. Bullet timing Deadshot/Hawkeye with a machine sniper rifle is another.
leonidas
Originally posted by StyleTime
Meh, they're both low end bullet timers, so speed won't be a factor. Cassandra might be able to like...complete a double back flip faster but I think the their reflexes are essentially the same. Here's a bullet deflection scan for Laura if you don't believe me.
https://s16.postimg.org/5rdbkvjjl/X_23_Bullet_Deflect.jpg
Strength is debatable too. Cassandra is more skilled, but Laura is just a bad matchup for her. She'll start off strong, then fade as Laura continues to heal while landing her own shots. Cass just lacks the damage output to finish this without getting stabbed repeatedly.
Her healing factor is insanely consistent too. I can count the number of legit KO's she's had on one hand. Anything less than a grenade may as well be a water balloon.
StiltmanFTW
Laura is pretty damn skilled, too. "Trained from birth", "world class assassin", etc.
leonidas
laura vs rand, who takes it?
riv6672
This thread still going? Huh.
StyleTime
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Good to see you again, Style.
How's it going? Figured I'd peep in and saw this thread. Don't know why people think Cassandra can punch/kick her way out of this when fighter jet missiles are a only mild annoyance for X.
Originally posted by RadZoa
What exactly is the difference between a low end and a high end bullet timer?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The manner in which they do it, the number of bullets, I guess.
Bullet timing a random thug with a pistol is one thing. Bullet timing Deadshot/Hawkeye with a machine sniper rifle is another.
Pretty much. It's just a personal metric I use, so feel free to disregard it. I feel there has to be some dividing line though for street speed though. It can't be "block/dodge a bullet and you're immune to getting shot and equal to Gorgon."
On the low end, we have folks like X-23, Batgirl, Deadpool, Daredevil, Taskmaster, Blade, Psylocke, Valkryie, etc. These people can deflect/catch/dodge sporadic shots, but must resort to aim dodging against large volleys of gunfire.
On the higher end are people that can comfortably react to sustained gunfire from automatic weapons, especially when fired from "named" opponents. Think Gorgon, Mr. X or maybe Wonder Girl.
Obviously, we could refine the definitions, include a mid tier, and come up with a cap for the high tier. I think there's got to be a line though. No one would place Deadpool or Psylocke alongside Gorgon despite them all having bullet time feats. It's simply not the same level of speed.
leonidas
that sounds fair, and yeah, laura is def too much for cass.
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