Satele Shan vs Pong Krell

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chingchangwalla
Force
Sabers
All out

MythLord
LMAO, Shan murks the toad man.

BazookaMaster
Force: Satele, 10/10
Sabers: Pong, 7-8/10
All out: Eh, Pong 6/10?

MythLord
Originally posted by BazookaMaster
Sabers: Pong, 7-8/10
All out: Eh, Pong 6/10?

What?

BazookaMaster
Pong's warrior accomplishments against the clones are better than anybody in TCW presented against this class of combatants. And that includes guys like Maul or Savage.

Also... Pongs demonstration against 501 is better on its own than anything Satele did in sabers.

MythLord
Originally posted by BazookaMaster
Pong's warrior accomplishments against the clones are better than anybody in TCW presented against this class of combatants. And that includes guys like Maul or Savage.

Except, an unarmed Ahsoka and Asajj essentially fodderized a squad of Clones and Maul and Savage usually stomp any blaster-wielding foes. The times they didn't, those were either Bounty Hunters -- so more skilled than Clones -- or were under extremely negative circumstances.

Besides, I can mention Zett Jukkassa fighting his way outside the Jedi Temple which was swarmed by Clones, before killing nearly half a dozen of them outside the Temple, despite having a far inferior status to Krell and far less beneficial weaponry.

Originally posted by BazookaMaster
Also... Pongs demonstration against 501 is better on its own than anything Satele did in sabers.

No, lol. Satele murking three Sith warriors as a Knight, prior to growing considerably in power and skill, and contending with Malgus who, even at the time could've bested two Jedi Knights while extremely injured, shits over killing fodder troops and being outsmarted by actually skilled Clones.

ILS
Originally posted by MythLord
Except, an unarmed Ahsoka and Asajj essentially fodderized a squad of Clones and Maul and Savage usually stomp any blaster-wielding foes. The times they didn't, those were either Bounty Hunters -- so more skilled than Clones -- or were under extremely negative circumstances. links
I mean, Zett ambushed a few before getting shot to pieces, whereas Krell comfortably stood in the midst of the finest clones available, avoided fire from all angles, and cut a lot of them to pieces. But cool.

eek!

ILS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXvi3i25HZg

>wants to prove Krell sucks
>takes a feat involving an inferior group of clones, with better environmental circumstances (as in, not totally surrounding them), involving two Force users instead of one, where the clones don't even want to kill them

Doing an awesome job, Wollf. laughing out loud

Deronn_solo
I hate when people throw out the term someone is "not in their prime" despite having no way of determining what exactly that is supposed to mean in the end. It just seems like a throw away term for when someone wants to hype up a character, then having any actual substance.

So, when Wollf says " Satele murking three Sith warriors as a Knight, prior to growing considerably in power and skill"; what source states that Satele grew considerably in skill? I don't want arbiterary opinions, either ---- I want canon sources and statements. Like Krayt's increase in power at his Reborn stage, or Vader's from ANH to ESB.

MythLord
I'm sorry, I think going from a mere Knight to Grandmaster would require at least a growth in power, which usually also translates to skill.

It's only logical.

I'll respond to ILS later.

Deronn_solo
So, conjecture as I guessed? Thanks for the clarification. thumb up

MythLord
Heh, more like a theory... which makes more sense than to assume a Grandmaster is equal to a Knight. thumb up

Zenwolf
Mmm well according to the Jedi Path, Myth isn't really wrong as it does say the Grandmaster is given only upon the greatest of the Jedi Masters, the latter having their skills greater than that of a Jedi Knight.

Deronn_solo
I see you guys can't read, good, not the least bit surprised by this development. No where did I say she didn't receive a gain in skill, I'm asking for clarification that the gain, was indeed, substantial.

I'll twiddle my thumbs and wait for proof that isn't purely arbitarary based.

Zenwolf
Well I was more or less just stating generally, I wasn't really saying Satele had.

MythLord
And I see you can't read. I never said you stated she never gained any skill, I merely noted it's doesn't make logical sense for a Jedi to go from a Knight to a Grandmaster and not become the least bit skilled.

And according to Threats Of The Galaxy in order to become a Jedi Master, one needs to be among the top of the Jedi craft in the Order, of course that doesn't just mean skill and power, but those play a pretty big role. And of course there are exceptions, but those are either Gary Stues or Force Anomalies(for the latter, a good example is Anakin).

So simply the leap from Knight to Master would've been a noted increase since Satele goes from a Knight to being among the top of the Order, and then she furthers this by becoming Grandmaster.

Deronn_solo
*sigh*
You claimed Satele gained a "considerable" amount of skill later in her Jedi career; I'm asking you to prove it with something that isn't conjecture.

Stop moving the goal post - prove the gain is substantial, or stop replying to me with the same nonsense.

darthbane77
Honestly, Pong probably takes sabers. He's incredibly brutal and fast, and his physical nature outclasses Satele's considerably. Not to mention that Satele may very well be taken back by Pons's use of two saber-staffs (kind of a shock factor more than anything); so I think sabers is weighted more in Krell's corner. As for the Force, I'm inclined to go with Satele; the raw power and skill she's demonstrated was incredible. As simply a Jedi Knight she was able to blitz groups of Sith Warriors and fight evenly with Darth Malgus; who as of the Battle of Alderaan, was one of the greatest Sith in the Empire. So in the Force I would say Satele. Overall I side with Satele though, Pong is the better duelist but Satele can contend; and her Force advantage gives her enough of an edge to win.

MythLord
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
*sigh*
You claimed Satele gained a "considerable" amount of skill later in her Jedi career; I'm asking you to prove it with something that isn't conjecture.

Stop moving the goal post - prove the gain is substantial, or stop replying to me with the same nonsense.

Like I said, simply to go from a Knight to a Master would, according to ToG, be a noticeable enough leap. To then go from that to a Council Master, and then a Grandmaster would be another noticeable enough leap.

That isn't nonesense, that's fact.

Plus, she had decades to improve. I'm pretty sure she'd be considerably ahead of her Hope! self.

|King Joker|
Force: Satele Shan
Lightsabers: Who knows?
All out: Satele Shan

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by MythLord
Like I said, simply to go from a Knight to a Master would, according to ToG, be a noticeable enough leap. To then go from that to a Council Master, and then a Grandmaster would be another noticeable enough leap.


Not necessarily. Wisdom plays a major roll in as well, Jedi aren't Sith, where power is all that matters, as shown time and again. Anakin's power/skill didn't suddenly go up a notch because he completed the Praesitlyn campaign to became a Jedi Knight, neither was Ulic status as the greatest of the Jedi, and the only one alive that could rival Kun's power, when in reality, he was powerful enough to be the Grand Master. Or the fact, Kyp Durron, who is, without doubt, the second or third most Jedi in the Order, was skipped over for Kenth Hammer as acting GM when Luke was on leave, because he wasn't exactly the most wise, and mentally sound -- again, not all about power, nor skill with a blade.




Conjecture, we're done. Stop replying to me, please.

MythLord
So an anecdotal fallacy and an appeal to ignorance? Yeah, that's cool.

Deronn_solo
Oh shit, you can Google fallacy's and attach them to opposing arguments in hopes of looking actual knowledgeable to substitute saying anything actually substantial lmao. Cheers, bruh.

You're an absolute punchline, Wollf.

MythLord
I've already stated my argument, which you dismiss on fallacious grounds; and just because you weren't aware of some types of fallacies doesn't mean I wasn't, lmao.

Of course, you've resorted to throwing around insults to seem superior in this particular instance , yet accuse me of being a punchline. mmm

Deronn_solo
Which were cancer.



No, I gave you clear in-canon examples on why rank doesn't indicate power, it's common sense - an single entry in a RPG sourcebook won't change that. You then try to act , all intellectual (lmao) by proceeding to list a bunch of logical fallacy's in hopes to seem substantial and relevant. Leave the Nia'ing to the actual Nai's.



http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11116/111167681/5397401-blue-graffiti-alphabet-f.jpg

Yeah, but sure - I didn't know of these fallacy's, kek.



Oh, wow. I'm surprised you didn't head to Google to get a fallacy that matches with this, and accuse me of ad hominem.



You're a punchline because your post on these boards are more laughed at then pandered upon, honestly.

MythLord
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Which were cancer.

I'd accuse this of an appeal to stone, but you'll probably say I googled that, too.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
No, I gave you clear in-canon examples on why rank doesn't indicate power, it's common sense - an single entry in a RPG sourcebook won't change that.

Yeah, by using isolated examples regarding characters who are exceptions, not rules. Mostly, it's knowledge, power and skill that sets the standards in the Jedi Order. Are there exceptions, of course. But that's just it: exceptions.

Saying Shan's case is also an exception is very much your own conjecture, in which case we fall back on Occam's Razor which supports the simplest explanation to a speculative topic. In this case, you either have judging something as a usual rule, or the exception to it. The simpler solution would be the former.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
You then try to act , all intellectual (lmao) by proceeding to list a bunch of logical fallacy's in hopes to seem substantial and relevant. Leave the Nia'ing to the actual Nai's.

I'm not acting, but I don't need to prove anything. I don't feel the need to directly flash my bravado or pride onto anyone like an insecure individual who finds ways to vent by bragging on the internet.

Note: I am not neccessarily accusing you of anything, but there are users to which I can attribute the above.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Yeah, but sure - I didn't know of these fallacy's, kek.

The way you spoke, you seemed to have been unaware. mmm.

So great, you know a fallacy, doesn't mean I suddenly googled mine, lol.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Oh, wow. I'm surprised you didn't head to Google to get a fallacy that matches with this, and accuse me of ad hominem.

I think that one was too obvious, tbh.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
You're a punchline because your post on these boards are more laughed at then pandered upon, honestly.

Something I really couldn't care less about, even if I tried. Most of the people on this board have a distaste for me because I had the sheer audacity to challenge them, or defy them on something.

Today, the quality of a debate doesn't matter, what matters is trading insults and d!ck measuring contests to prove superiority because everyone here has some type of complex they can't find any psychiatrist to solve.

Granted, I myself am guilty of bravado, at times imprudent admittedly, but it's usually just banter rather than anything I actually believe about myself or others in comparison to myself.

Deronn_solo
Meh, I don't even care about this shitty thread anymore. Wanna go out for a strawberry milkshake later, friend?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
thumb up

DC finally understands the art of not giving a shit. smile

MythLord
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Meh, I don't even care about this shitty thread anymore. Wanna go out for a strawberry milkshake later, friend?

Agreed, and you know I do. thumb up

Kurk
Too much speculation to answer this thread.

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