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Chaos War Hercules:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/40015/1569804-herc_supergod.png

COIE Anti-Monitor:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7658/348511-144414-anti-monitor.jpg

Rules:

- Both characters are a full power.

Who wins?

Originally posted by backup
- Both characters are a full power.

Who wins?
COIE AM eats him.

At his peak, AM housed the power of 2 multiverses. He stomps.

How do they match in feats?

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/CKDarkHalfofEternity1.jpg

Another spite thread
AM wins.
Flawless victory.
Erasality.

Nowhere near a spite thread:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/91339/1754145-chaos_war_king.jpg

http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/1/15047/1379576-chaoswar_1_preview3.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/5/54353/1679898-hercules_vs_chaos_king_03_finishing_blow.jpg

You know what AM did to DC universe, right ?
Have you read COIE ?

Originally posted by bobbybatman
You know what AM did to DC universe, right ?
Have you read COIE ?

You mean destroying universes using an anti-matter canon, struggling against Spectre and getting defeated by the combination of Kal-L, Superboy Prime, Alexander Luthor and Darkseid?

I read the trade a while back.

Someone has to survive, they can't end DC industry right there. They were the mascots. And yes, AM will eat a 100 Hercules at the same time.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
You mean destroying universes using an anti-matter canon, struggling against Spectre and getting defeated by the combination of Kal-L, Superboy Prime, Alexander Luthor and Darkseid?

I read the trade a while back.

You need to go back COIE then. At the beginning, yes, Anti was using his anti wave to wipe off Universes. Then, he was using that energy to power himself up.

At the end, Spectre blasted Anti with a blast called Creation Blast. The blast was so strong that Spectre went into a coma. That blasted showed the Presences dreams of Universes that were dreamed off but never to be. That blast itself wipe out the 2 Infinite Universes, the Anti and the Positive Muliverses and fused them into 1 Universe. Anti Monitor took that blast at point blank, though weakened, was still gearing to go on.

Pre Crisis Darkseid used Alexander has. Proxy and cheap shoted Anti after he was weakened. And if you know anything about Pre Crisis Darkseid, then you know he was a force not to mess with.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Nowhere near a spite thread:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/91339/1754145-chaos_war_king.jpg

http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/1/15047/1379576-chaoswar_1_preview3.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/5/54353/1679898-hercules_vs_chaos_king_03_finishing_blow.jpg

Still spite.

This Hercules would have beaten any form of Anti until the point of EOT Anti.

Without Flash to help him, Herc is doomed.

AM wins easily

Originally posted by SquallX
You need to go back COIE then. At the beginning, yes, Anti was using his anti wave to wipe off Universes. Then, he was using that energy to power himself up.

At the end, Spectre blasted Anti with a blast called Creation Blast. The blast was so strong that Spectre went into a coma. That blasted showed the Presences dreams of Universes that were dreamed off but never to be. That blast itself wipe out the 2 Infinite Universes, the Anti and the Positive Muliverses and fused them into 1 Universe. Anti Monitor took that blast at point blank, though weakened, was still gearing to go on.

Pre Crisis Darkseid used Alexander has. Proxy and cheap shoted Anti after he was weakened. And if you know anything about Pre Crisis Darkseid, then you know he was a force not to mess with.

I'm not seeing much of what you describe in the book at this moment. It doesn't appear to be Spectre unleashing the so called "blast", but rather Spectre receiving the blast once Krona opens the portal. The energies released from Krona opening the portal are part of what AM desires and needs to achieve his goal.

And Spectre doesn't see Presence's dreams. He sees things that will never be and he sees things that The Presence has never dreamed of.

AM is at top power after this and is weakened after Dr. Light drains him. She is part of the group of beings that together flat out defeat AM.

And yes I am familiar with Pre-Crisis Darkseid being beat being rag dolled by an alternate Dark Phoenix (Isn't there only one Darkseid?)

This isnt even remotely a spite thread. Herc flat out has a chance.

Originally posted by SquallX
You need to go back COIE then. At the beginning, yes, Anti was using his anti wave to wipe off Universes. Then, he was using that energy to power himself up.

At the end, Spectre blasted Anti with a blast called Creation Blast. The blast was so strong that Spectre went into a coma. That blasted showed the Presences dreams of Universes that were dreamed off but never to be. That blast itself wipe out the 2 Infinite Universes, the Anti and the Positive Muliverses and fused them into 1 Universe. Anti Monitor took that blast at point blank, though weakened, was still gearing to go on.

Pre Crisis Darkseid used Alexander has. Proxy and cheap shoted Anti after he was weakened. And if you know anything about Pre Crisis Darkseid, then you know he was a force not to mess with.

Spectre's master wasn't revealed to be the Presence at the time. It was just known as the voice. However, it should be also noted that a part of the same comatose Spectre destroyed the entire universal timeline of the 1945 era unintentionally/subconsciously.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
I'm not seeing much of what you describe in the book at this moment. It doesn't appear to be Spectre unleashing the so called "blast", but rather Spectre receiving the blast once Krona opens the portal. The energies released from Krona opening the portal are part of what AM desires and needs to achieve his goal.

And Spectre doesn't see Presence's dreams. He sees things that will never be and he sees things that The Presence has never dreamed of.

AM is at top power after this and is weakened after Dr. Light drains him. She is part of the group of beings that together flat out defeat AM.

And yes I am familiar with Pre-Crisis Darkseid being beat being rag dolled by an alternate Dark Phoenix (Isn't there only one Darkseid?)

This isnt even remotely a spite thread. Herc flat out has a chance.

Peak AM = AM at the dawn of time. Not after his battle with the spectre which you're referencing.

Originally posted by operator616
Peak AM = AM at the dawn of time. Not after his battle with the spectre which you're referencing.

And how does he portray this peak?

Originally posted by TheHulkster
And how does he portray this peak?

AM was already equal to the Monitor when the latter was powered by infinite universes. From that moment on, every time he consumes a universe he absorbs its power. So basically, he was twice as powerful as a peak multiversal being.

Monitor at his weakest (when there were only 5 universes left) created a self contained multiverse which can house entire universes within it.

And Spectre was amped to a point where he was apparently beyond his master (the voice), who despite not being established to be the presence was still a multiversal force.

Originally posted by operator616
AM was already equal to the Monitor when the latter was powered by infinite universes. From that moment on, every time he consumes a universe he absorbs its power. So basically, he was twice as powerful as a peak multiversal being.

Monitor at his weakest (when there were only 5 universes left) created a self contained multiverse which can house entire universes within it.

And Spectre was amped to a point where he was apparently beyond his master (the voice), who despite not being established to be the presence was still a multiversal force.

Where is all of this stated? I don't see it in COIE.

First part in issue #7, second one in #5, the last one in #10

I don't actually plan on debating this, I'm just throwing in my two cents and stepping away but...

I've always considered AM to be over hyped as Hell personally. Yes he was superior to the Monitor once the first universe was destroyed and the Monitor was powered by the multiverse but as AM demonstrated when he absorbed the anti-matter universe in the end, just being powered by a universe/multiverse doesn't mean you're actually as powerful as the universe itself(ergo, Monitor wasn't really multiversal in the conventional sense). By the same token, someone who's filling the role of the Juggenaut isn't necessarily the equal of Cyttorak and a wielder of the Power Gem can't really be considered INFINITELY powerful. If that were the case, it would mean Hulk's more powerful than Cyttorak since he's beaten Juggernaut and Thor during Blood and Thunder was +infinity during B&T since he beat Drax.

Before he absorbed the anti matter universe his Thunderors were giving him Hell and he was nearly killed by Supergirl. And while silver aged kryptonians DID have some ridiculous highs, they'd been toned down significantly even a couple of years before COIE(their big stuff comes from the early-mid silver age). So if the Monitor was less powerful than he, the Monitor wasn't a high end cosmic being at the time. DC may have rectonned that point since then(I know there's been some big stuff with the monitors since), but at the time he just wasn't all that. Now it' safe to assume that he WOULD have been if he'd absorbed the rest of the multiverse the way AM absorbed the anti matter universe, but he didn't so he never reached that level.

What's more, it's worth noting that by AM's own admission he actually burned through MOST of his power just reaching the dawn of creation(something characters like Parallax have done without problem) which is why he had to absorb the power of Earth's heros to complete the final step of his plan. While it's true that he did match power with Spectre amped by the mystics, Spectre's coma wasn't the direct result of the blast but because he was deliberately going against how his boss wanted the situation handled. And as we all know, Spectre's power is DIRECTLY affected by how much backing he has from his boss. Also I'm pretty sure that at the time his boss was the Word, not the Presence. Still an Uber cosmic being obviously, but not quite as impressive as the Presence itself.

As I said I'm not trying to get any debate on any of this(especially in regards to rectons and such since I haven't really followed them) so I'll leave it all at that, but people can feel free to PM me about it if they wish to discuss it more.

1) Monitor is a cosmic being, he created the netherverse and put 2 universes in there. Harbinger who is powered by him then added the three others. And this was while he was weakened.

2) You're comparing two different time eras. In Parallax's time changing the timeline wasn't such a big deal, in COIE it was explicitly stated that changing the past is impossible. And the pre-Crisis continuity had been actually strict about this (three examples from three different pre-Crisis runs: Superman #372, Superboy #164, Legion #259). Also the time travel issues where addressed in Cosmic Boy's mini and in the booster gold series right after COIE iirc. There are only a handful examples were that rule was broken. Unlike post-Crisis.

3) You have it wrong. Spectre went comatose because of his battle with AM not because he went against his boss. And his boss was the voice not the word.

I realize you don't want to debate this but I just thought I should counter your posts since I'm involved in this thread.

Originally posted by operator616
1) Monitor is a cosmic being, he created the netherverse and put 2 universes in there. Harbinger who is powered by him then added the three others. And this was while he was weakened.

2) You're comparing two different time eras. In Parallax's time changing the timeline wasn't such a big deal, in COIE it was explicitly stated that changing the past is impossible. And the pre-Crisis continuity had been actually strict about this (three examples from three different pre-Crisis runs: Superman #372, Superboy #164, Legion #259). Also the time travel issues where addressed in Cosmic Boy's mini and in the booster gold series right after COIE iirc. There are only a handful examples were that rule was broken. Unlike post-Crisis.

3) You have it wrong. Spectre went comatose because of his battle with AM not because he went against his boss. And his boss was the voice not the word.

I realize you don't want to debate this but I just thought I should counter your posts since I'm involved in this thread.

Voice, Word... either way not the Presence lol. Though I'm almost positive it was revealed in a tie in that the Spectre's coma was a result of him going against his bosses wishes. I know it was brought up years ago and I believe it was confirmed by Galan so you might ask him what I'm referencing exactly cause I don't remember the details.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I don't actually plan on debating this, I'm just throwing in my two cents and stepping away but...

I've always considered AM to be over hyped as Hell personally. Yes he was superior to the Monitor once the first universe was destroyed and the Monitor was powered by the multiverse but as AM demonstrated when he absorbed the anti-matter universe in the end, just being powered by a universe/multiverse doesn't mean you're actually as powerful as the universe itself(ergo, Monitor wasn't really multiversal in the conventional sense). By the same token, someone who's filling the role of the Juggenaut isn't necessarily the equal of Cyttorak and a wielder of the Power Gem can't really be considered INFINITELY powerful. If that were the case, it would mean Hulk's more powerful than Cyttorak since he's beaten Juggernaut and Thor during Blood and Thunder was +infinity during B&T since he beat Drax.

Before he absorbed the anti matter universe his Thunderors were giving him Hell and he was nearly killed by Supergirl. And while silver aged kryptonians DID have some ridiculous highs, they'd been toned down significantly even a couple of years before COIE(their big stuff comes from the early-mid silver age). So if the Monitor was less powerful than he, the Monitor wasn't a high end cosmic being at the time. DC may have rectonned that point since then(I know there's been some big stuff with the monitors since), but at the time he just wasn't all that. Now it' safe to assume that he WOULD have been if he'd absorbed the rest of the multiverse the way AM absorbed the anti matter universe, but he didn't so he never reached that level.

What's more, it's worth noting that by AM's own admission he actually burned through MOST of his power just reaching the dawn of creation(something characters like Parallax have done without problem) which is why he had to absorb the power of Earth's heros to complete the final step of his plan. While it's true that he did match power with Spectre amped by the mystics, Spectre's coma wasn't the direct result of the blast but because he was deliberately going against how his boss wanted the situation handled. And as we all know, Spectre's power is DIRECTLY affected by how much backing he has from his boss. Also I'm pretty sure that at the time his boss was the Word, not the Presence. Still an Uber cosmic being obviously, but not quite as impressive as the Presence itself.

As I said I'm not trying to get any debate on any of this(especially in regards to rectons and such since I haven't really followed them) so I'll leave it all at that, but people can feel free to PM me about it if they wish to discuss it more.
I liked how being powered by multiverse isn't a big deal.



And is being considered in the same tone as Cyttorak powering Juggernaut.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Voice, Word... either way not the Presence lol. Though I'm almost positive it was revealed in a tie in that the Spectre's coma was a result of him going against his bosses wishes. I know it was brought up years ago and I believe it was confirmed by Galan so you might ask him what I'm referencing exactly cause I don't remember the details.


I think you're confusing things. The voice was unhappy with him because he failed to stop AM and GEB, which led to his depowerment in v2. I think that's what you were referring to.