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Both at their absolute peaks, who wins and why?

Absolute peak meaning Micro-series Grevious? I might have to give it to Grevious in that case. Revan was an a amazing duelist but seemed to rely more on the Force in combat than his blade (at least later in his life anyway), so while Revan is still an amazing swordsman; Grevious is a PURE swordsman.

Revan due to precog and stuff.

Revan has the speed to keep up with Grievous. Not sure for how long though.

Prolly Grievous, can't imagine Revan has come across a cyborg wielding 4 sabers before

Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
Revan has the speed to keep up with Grievous. Not sure for how long though.
Lmfao. Revan's endurance and stamina is top tier.

Grievous has crazy speed and go forever... Revan can't go forever

Braga fought for three days straight and he's nothing to Revan.

This fight won't be determined via endurance or stamina.

I'm interested in hearing your proper case for Revan Ant, care to give some reasons for his victory?

Grievous with ease.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
I'm interested in hearing your proper case for Revan Ant, care to give some reasons for his victory? Seconded, I'd like to hear a case for Revan in this situation.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
I'm interested in hearing your proper case for Revan Ant, care to give some reasons for his victory?
I'm not sure how Revan would fare against someone like Grievous. I imagine his battle precognition would be more effective against living opponents than droids. My argument for victory would be the standard though: predicting all Grievous' strikes before they happen and then ending him with knowledge on forms of war Grievous doesn't know (Echani and Mandalorian), all of which is fueled by his comparable physicals thanks to Force augmentation and unrivaled endurance, pain tolerance, durability, stamina, etc. Revan's ability to fight in the future is a huge advantage that all others who don't know the Echani arts won't share. It's also hard to undermine someone of Revan's Force-level with a lightsaber alone, even if he can't call upon the Force offensively. Revan's mastery over warfare was unrivaled for a reason.

That is true, forgot about Revan's precognition.

Never has Revan demonstrated comparable physical strength or agility that I know of.

Grievous had never even encountered Vaapad before he fought Mace and yet he was able to replicate and create counters for it within seconds. I don't see how Echani or Mandalorian fighting styles would fare any better against him.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'm not sure how Revan would fare against someone like Grievous. I imagine his battle precognition would be more effective against living opponents than droids. My argument for victory would be the standard though: predicting all Grievous' strikes before they happen and then ending him with knowledge on forms of war Grievous doesn't know (Echani and Mandalorian), all of which is fueled by his comparable physicals thanks to Force augmentation and unrivaled endurance, pain tolerance, durability, stamina, etc. Revan's ability to fight in the future is a huge advantage that all others who don't know the Echani arts won't share. It's also hard to undermine someone of Revan's Force-level with a lightsaber alone, even if he can't call upon the Force offensively. Revan's mastery over warfare was unrivaled for a reason.

This is a solid case for Revan

Originally posted by darthbane77
That is true, forgot about Revan's precognition.

All Force users possess precognition DB. Not just Revan. It only helped to bridge the gap of speed between Grievous and the Force users he fought, something Revan would have to overcome as well.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Never has Revan demonstrated comparable physical strength or agility that I know of.

Grievous had never even encountered Vaapad before yet he was able to replicate and create counters for it within seconds. I don't see how Echani or Mandalorian fighting styles would fare any better against him.
Revan was dodging Vitiate's lightning bolts, contending with strike teams, and fighting hordes of Mandalorians before his prime. He'll be fine, lmfao.

That's because Vaapad is still based on Jedi lightsaber arts. Echani and Manalorian fighting styles aren't.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
All Force users possess precognition DB. Not just Revan. It only helped to bridge the gap of speed between Grievous and the Force users he fought, something Revan would have to overcome as well.
Revan's battle precognition is unique to him alone. Only he has mastered it to his pinnacle. Even the other Echani are awed by his skills. Revan's Force-based sense abilities are also galactic-spanning, so the combination should be brutal.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
All Force users possess precognition DB. Not just Revan. It only helped to bridge the gap of speed between Grievous and the Force users he fought, something Revan would have to overcome as well. Revan's was special though, as Ant said. He was able to plan entire battles in advance with his precog.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Revan's was special though, as Ant said. He was able to plan entire battles in advance with his precog.
*wars

Quotes suggest he can fight literally minutes in advance.

But but..... Grievous beat Shaak Ti and she's one of the most powerful Jedi ever.
Grievous > Shaak Ti = Yoda Confirmed which means Grievous > Rots Palpatine.
Revan's ****ed

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
*wars

Quotes suggest he can fight literally minutes in advance. Oh, my mistake haha.

Skilled Echani can fight seconds or minutes in advance.

Echani masters can fight entire battles in advance.

The greatest of the Echani can fight wars in advance.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan was dodging Vitiate's lightning bolts, contending with strike teams, and fighting hordes of Mandalorians before his prime. He'll be fine, lmfao.

That's because Vaapad is still based on Jedi lightsaber arts. Echani and Manalorian fighting styles aren't.

You understand that blocking/dodging projectiles when you are aware of where they will be beforehand does not make you equally as fast, correct?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan's battle precognition is unique to him alone. Only he has mastered it to his pinnacle. Even the other Echani are awed by his skills. Revan's Force-based sense abilities are also galactic-spanning, so the combination should be brutal.

Quote that he mastered it to his pinnacle and that his senses span the Galaxy?

Originally posted by darthbane77
Revan's was special though, as Ant said. He was able to plan entire battles in advance with his precog.

And Sidious was able to plan entire Galactic events. It doesn't help you in a combative sense since a battle your personally engaged in is going to have constantly shifting outcomes based on your own actions during the fight.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
But but..... Grievous beat Shaak Ti and she's one of the most powerful Jedi ever.
Grievous > Shaak Ti = Yoda Confirmed which means Grievous > Rots Palpatine.
Revan's ****ed

Grievous beat an exhausted Shaak along with multiple other Jedi. While I would say that indicates general superiority over her even if she was in a peak state that's hardly his best feat given he was overwhelming Kenobi's defenses and casually fending off 4 Jedi simultaneously thinking of the experience as "enjoyable." Then there's his fight against Windu.

True enough, I don't know the exact details of Revan's skill in precog; not as well as Ant does anyway. So I'll let him explain.

Lol.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
You understand that blocking/dodging projectiles when you are aware of where they will be beforehand does not make you equally as fast, correct?
Yeah, but Revan's going be sensing Grievous' attacks too before they happen, so that point isn't relevant. Besides, it's still a very impressive feat, since the lightning feat was done with his senses hindered.

---

Here:

"It is the way of the Echani to be able to read their opponents - to know where an opponent is going to strike before it connects, anticipate it, and then strike against them. Echani battles are fought several minutes in advance - in many ways, it is much like the game of dejarik played in the core systems. The most advanced among the Echani are able to predict the course of battles by months, and the most revered are said to be able to predict the path of wars. Only Revan ever demonstrated such a skill in war. And even as he slaughtered us, the Echani still respected him."

―Brianna (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic: The Sith Lords)

"The Echani rely heavily on hand-to-hand combat and personal shield technology, and they had their asses handed to them by Revan during the Jedi Civil War, because, not surprisingly, there weren't many people able to face Revan across a battlefield and survive the encounter. The greatest among the Echani are said to be able to read their opponent's moves so ell they can predict the path of a battle several seconds, sometimes even minutes in advance, by gauging their opponent's fighting style, heart rate, and there movements in combat. In many ways, the Echani see combat as a rapid dejarik game, calculating feints, attacks, and dodges with a speed that few can surpass... I always felt Revan was an incredible tactician, and the Echani were awed by his precog and natural skill with tactics."

―Chris Avellone (Knights of the Old Republic 2 Head Writer)

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
And Sidious was able to plan entire Galactic events. It doesn't help you in a combative sense since a battle your personally engaged in is going to have constantly shifting outcomes based on your own actions during the fight.
Force foresight and battle precognition aren't remotely comparable abilities.

One's Force based and aimed for peering into the future.

The other is tactical based and aimed for combat situations.

What did we talk about with you and debating stuff you don't know about?

Ah and for the galactic senses, he reached out across the galaxy to try to find Meetra Surik.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yeah, but Revan's going be sensing Grievous' attacks too before they happen, so that point isn't relevant. Besides, it's still a very impressive feat, since the lightning feat was done with his senses hindered.

---

Here:

"It is the way of the Echani to be able to read their opponents - to know where an opponent is going to strike before it connects, anticipate it, and then strike against them. Echani battles are fought several minutes in advance - in many ways, it is much like the game of dejarik played in the core systems. The most advanced among the Echani are able to predict the course of battles by months, and the most revered are said to be able to predict the path of wars. Only Revan ever demonstrated such a skill in war. And even as he slaughtered us, the Echani still respected him."

―Brianna (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic: The Sith Lords)

"The Echani rely heavily on hand-to-hand combat and personal shield technology, and they had their asses handed to them by Revan during the Jedi Civil War, because, not surprisingly, there weren't many people able to face Revan across a battlefield and survive the encounter. The greatest among the Echani are said to be able to read their opponent's moves so ell they can predict the path of a battle several seconds, sometimes even minutes in advance, by gauging their opponent's fighting style, heart rate, and there movements in combat. In many ways, the Echani see combat as a rapid dejarik game, calculating feints, attacks, and dodges with a speed that few can surpass... I always felt Revan was an incredible tactician, and the Echani were awed by his precog and natural skill with tactics."

―Chris Avellone (Knights of the Old Republic 2 Head Writer)

It's relevant because Grievous's attack isn't going to be a few projectiles flung at Revan but a constant assault.

Didn't Revan draw on both the Light and Darkside at the end of the novel. If the nexus was hindering the part of him that drew on the Light then why would it not also empower the part of him drawing on the Dark?

You gave me quotes stating that Echani employed their precognition in combat and were impressive tacticians and another that Revan was capable of defeating them because he had superior precog and tactics. Congrats. Now what does that have to do with how he'd perform against Grievous, a cyborg with a completely randomized fighting style capable of reading his own opponents fighting style in seconds?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Ah and for the galactic senses, he reached out across the galaxy to try to find Meetra Surik.

As have plenty of other characters in the mythos including pre RotJ Luke. It's not a feat that's relevant to combat.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Force foresight and battle precognition aren't remotely comparable abilities.

One's Force based and aimed for peering into the future.

The other is tactical based and aimed for combat situations.

What did we talk about with you and debating stuff you don't know about?

So, you're saying that the knowledge to know about what's going to happen in the future isn't related in any way? Damn, you learn something new everyday.

I know that you claiming that Revan knowing exactly what's going to happen before it happens in combat is complete BS unless you can prove it.

I'll respond tomorrow when I'm back on computer.

PM me a reminder tomorrow evening if I forget to show.

He drew on both sides but he was aligned more with the light side, so he would have been hindered far more than any amp could cover; if he even was amped at all.

Can't PM. I'll send you a message on gmail though.

Originally posted by darthbane77
He drew on both sides but he was aligned more with the light side, so he would have been hindered far more than any amp could cover; if he even was amped at all.

As far as I remember he was drawing on both the Light and Dark equally letting them flow through him like a channel. I'll find the quote though just in case.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
As far as I remember he was drawing on both the Light and Dark equally letting them flow through him like a channel. I'll find the quote though just in case. You're right on that account, but using a Force power and being aligned with that power's respective side of the Force are different things. It's like Kyle Katarn using lightning, he's aligned with the light side but uses Dark Side powers; Revan was similar.

Then you're getting into the realm of speculation like whether or not one's philosophy affects your power in the Force, your ability to use certain powers and of course, what we're debating here and what was recently brought up in the Maris vs Bastilla thread, how nexuses affect you. We just don't know. Considering Revan had just regained all his memories after donning the Revan mask and that he used abilities which would have forced him to draw on his rage and anger I'd say he was pretty much standing on a knife edge between the two at that point.

I can see that. For some reason I assumed that Jedi=Light alignment, but now that I think about it there are a few Jedi who are more neutral. Though I still think the nexus probably hindered him more than helped him.

*Shrug* That's a fair stance. I prefer to defer towards a more neutral approach due to lack of knowledge.

That's understandable.