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Yes, it's that time again.

Legends canon.

1. Mustafar Anakin
2. "Standard" Anakin (whatever you think that is)
3. Anakin right after Obi Wan gets taken out by Dooku
4. "Zone" Anakin vs. Dooku

Skywalker tears him apart limb by limb.

Vader in all.

Vader wins all

mmm


Reasons?

Darth Vader's rarely proven to be impressive with a lightsaber. His best accomplishments is getting the upper hand against Ben Kenobi and outdueling Starkiller (who can't be traced back to any respectable duelist besides Shaak Ti). In contrast, Skywalker's slaughtering Dooku with greater ease than Yoda and one-shotting the Jedi Order's Basttlemaster. He even has Gillard hyping him up to be "unbeatable." His combat skills are rooted in Father-tier potential. Vader? More like sub-Revan.

By virtue of simply being superior. Vader was a superior duelist, his style was more precise and deadly, his physicals blow Ani's out of the water. Zone Anakin is the only one I see putting up a fight, but even then Vader's physicals and superior skill are more than Anakin can handle. Not to mention Vader knows Anakin inside and out, how his mind works, what makes him tick and what triggers him. Vader will know how to break Anakin in any confrontation.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Vader in all.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/113578db60fc793ff98b53e268c74dc6/tumblr_inline_nz126wOXOJ1r0m3s3_500.gif

While Zonakin is more agile Vader is more controlled, more skilled and likely more powerful.

Ant, Vader's potential is still probably on Sidious's level if you take it seriously that he once had double and had it cut in half.

Originally posted by darthbane77
By virtue of simply being superior. Vader was a superior duelist, his style was more precise and deadly, his physicals blow Ani's out of the water. Zone Anakin is the only one I see putting up a fight, but even then Vader's physicals and superior skill are more than Anakin can handle. Not to mention Vader knows Anakin inside and out, how his mind works, what makes him tick and what triggers him. Vader will know how to break Anakin in any confrontation.

Knowing him inside and out is a valid point, but what makes you think his technical skill is that much better? He had to work his style around the limitations of his suit; is there any indication it actually grew superior?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Ant, Vader's potential is still probably on Sidious's level if you take it seriously that he once had double and had it cut in half.
I don't interpret that quote as a math problem, but rather Lucas emphasizing Vader was affected by a large degree.

Palpatine clearly didn't think of him as a worthy successor, whereas with Marek (who has Luke potential), he saw it possible.

EDIT: Besides, Palpatine level is nothing to Father level anyway, so my point stands. Vader's a shadow of what he once was.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Ant, Vader's potential is still probably on Sidious's level if you take it seriously that he once had double and had it cut in half.



Knowing him inside and out is a valid point, but what makes you think his technical skill is that much better? He had to work his style around the limitations of his suit; is there any indication it actually grew superior? Vader is stated to have regained much of his original speed and agility, so that's not really a problem. His feats as Vader in terms of the Force are superior, his mastery of TK being pretty much the best in the mythos. His dueling skills are such that Sidious regarded him as the greatest Jedi killer in history, though that could be attributed to his Force powers as much as his dueling. His dueling was very technical, precise; he never went for less than a killing strike, as said by Galen Marek. Vader just simply became more powerful and more skilled than he had ever been as Anakin Skywalker.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Vader is stated to have regained much of his original speed and agility, so that's not really a problem. His feats as Vader in terms of the Force are superior, his mastery of TK being pretty much the best in the mythos. His dueling skills are such that Sidious regarded him as the greatest Jedi killer in history, though that could be attributed to his Force powers as much as his dueling. His dueling was very technical, precise; he never went for less than a killing strike, as said by Galen Marek. Vader just simply became more powerful and more skilled than he had ever been as Anakin Skywalker.

His feats in telekinesis are superior, but Anakin seems to have more "raw" power to amp himself; likewise, Dooku has better TK feats than Skywalker but still can't match him in augmentation.

ROTJ Vader? Hmm

True, Anakin does have better Force aug thanks to his raw power; but Vader has concentrated power, he's mastered the full scope of what he had left; and what he had left still leaves him more powerful than most. And Vader more than makes up for his lack of aug with his cybernetics.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
His feats in telekinesis are superior
Are Vader's TK feats honestly even better though? mmm

Skywalker's moving dreadnaughts far, far before his prime.

Yeah, there's that one feat in OCW, I'm not sure how to fit that into everything else he does.

^^^Vader lifts and throws heavy objects at mother****ers for shits and giggles. A big part of his duel with Galen was just chucking shit at him. (That was for Ant)

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yeah, there's that one feat in OCW, I'm not sure how to fit that into everything else he does.
Well he's making Dooku rethink his entire life after he collapses 90x30 meter domes previously praised for its durability with just a scream.

Dooku legitimately briefly contemplated going back to the Jedi Order after seeing Skywalker's power on display in Labyrinth of Evil.

Didn't he struggle with something really basic right afterwards? It seems like he's more mood dependent with respect to his most impressive feats; Vader can pull them off casually.

^Exactly. Anakin's greatest feats are all done under a certain state of mind. Vader can do all the shit Anakin has done, and he can practically do it on a whim compared to how hard it is for Anakin.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Didn't he struggle with something really basic right afterwards? It seems like he's more mood dependent with respect to his most impressive feats; Vader can pull them off casually.
Earlier in the novel he failed to open a large door, but earlier in the novel also had Kenobi musing Skywalker's just as powerful as Yoda.

Based on the same mindset he had going into the Dooku fight, he should be able to replicate all his extremely impressive feats.

Originally posted by darthbane77
and he can practically do it on a whim compared to how hard it is for Anakin.
mmm Skywalker did his best two TK feats pretty easily.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Earlier in the novel he failed to open a large door, but earlier in the novel also had Kenobi musing Skywalker's just as powerful as Yoda.

Based on the same mindset he had going into the Dooku fight, he should be able to replicate all his extremely impressive feats.

That quote would be wicked.

Well yeah, Anakin wins if he's in that mindset. It's difficult to gauge what his "typical" one is.

And there's no indication it's referring to potential, since it also makes note of Anakin's current flaws, and peak Anakin would be vastly more powerful than any Jedi anyway.

Sweet.

But "powerful" is still a vague term; it isn't clear that it puts him above Vader with his familiarity of Anakin's moves, his decades of experience, greater mastery of the Force, and cybernetics.

Anakin was ragdolling decent opponents, Vader was ragdolling fodder. Anakin wins...

@Ellim: Which honestly isn't enough to topple Skywalker. He's just simply too powerful, too skilled, too fast, too strong.

Vader's cybernetics, in particular, honestly won't trump Skywalker's raw strength, which appears to be vastly greater than Grievous'.

To quote Gillard: "(Anakin) now no longer cares. He knows he's unbeatable. He's far more dangerous than anybody in the universe."

Which opponents?

Welcome back, Ellim.

Please don't quote Gillard Ant, FOR **** SAKE

I'm discussing with Ellim, not you, and he takes Gillard seriously last time I checked.

Why exactly does it matter whether or not he takes it seriously? It's evidence either way. The fact that some people are butthurt about you supplying certain quotes isn't really worth addressing or considering, Ant.

Legends has Anakin being the stronger of the two.

Vader

Technically, Anakin's powers and abilities depend on his mindset, but at his absolute best, he trumps Vader, yeah.

Lol.

How low do you have Anakin again?

Below Obi-Wan.

Mmm. Confirmed not to be the case by multiple sources, excluding Gillard.

That's nice.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
@Ellim: Which honestly isn't enough to topple Skywalker. He's just simply too powerful, too skilled, too fast, too strong.

Vader's cybernetics, in particular, honestly won't trump Skywalker's raw strength, which appears to be vastly greater than Grievous'.

To quote Gillard: "(Anakin) now no longer cares. He knows he's unbeatable. He's far more dangerous than anybody in the universe."

Yeah, that might be true.