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For those of you who are unaware, in a recent interview Tom Veitch, the creator of Dark Empire, basically retconned the Force Storm ability as not something Sidious can do at will, but something that came as a result of his mental struggle with Luke.

Now the DE version of Sidious is considered the strongest, and his Force Storm is the main reason for it. It's the one ability that his fans claim puts him above any other Force user, or at least any other Sith.

So where would you rank Sidious without it? Does he still have a claim to the title of strongest Sith if his strongest ability is his Lightning and not something on the scale of Nihilus/Vitiate's drain or Naga Sadow's star busting ritual, or even Exar Kun's esoteric abilities and Krayt's Dark Transfer?

Link the interview?

BTW, here is the interview:http://www.starwarsunderworld.com/2016/08/interview-with-dark-empire-writer-tom.html?m=1

And here is the direct quote:

Damn, brutal.

As I said when I posted the interview earlier, it's irrelevant. Not only is Veitch's claim non-canon but it is contradicted by other canon materials.

The authorial intent dudes can jizz over this all they want, but is it actually seen in the source material?

Originally posted by ares834
As I said when I posted the interview earlier, it's irrelevant. Not only is Veitch's claim non-canon but it is contradicted by other canon materials.
Or rather other canon sources misinterpreting Veitch's original work? mmm

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Or rather other canon sources misinterpreting Veitch's original work? mmm

Which is irrelevant.

Not to me. mmm

Originally posted by ares834
As I said when I posted the interview earlier, it's irrelevant. Not only is Veitch's claim non-canon but it is contradicted by other canon materials.
Perhaps, perhaps not. But if a direct quote from the author is not relevant, then a whole lot of arguments/quotes that rely on author intent used on this site can also be called into question.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Either way that's beyond the scope of this thread. I'm not asking if you agree with the statement or not, I'm just asking where would you rate Sidious assuming the statement is true.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Not to me. mmm

That's fine, but it is irrelevant for all canonical discussion.

Seriously. An author saying something later on doesn't make it true especially when its contradicted in the work itself.

Originally posted by ares834
Which is irrelevant.


The extra material is there to conjecture upon and interpret the primary source mateiral. So where are the quote's that contradict his notion? Because I'm reading Dark Empire at this moment and it's looking very possible that Veitch's theory could be the cause of the Force Storm phenomena and it would also explain why they're completely unusable to Palpatine in combat.

To support his theory, we have this statement here from Luke :

http://oi67.tinypic.com/14bus5x.jpg

The next page of course, is the storm.

Without it I'd rank him at!!!!!!!!!!!!


RotS Sidious level. https://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-effort.gif

He definitely wouldn't be on Nihilus or Valkorion's level.

Interesting, but directly contradicted by numerous canon sources.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Interesting, but directly contradicted by numerous canon sources.

Please bring them, references would be nice also.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Please bring them, references would be nice also.
I believe the original reference is the DE Sourcebook, from there it was picked up in various other sourcebooks like Jedi vs Sith or The Book of Sith.

Originally posted by ares834
As I said when I posted the interview earlier, it's irrelevant. Not only is Veitch's claim non-canon but it is contradicted by other canon materials.

When I read this on TFN, I chuckled: Sheev whips out a Force storm right in front of Luke at the end of DE.

http://oi68.tinypic.com/27yu9ea.jpg

There is no inherent contradiction as far as i'm concerned.

Looking at things closer, the in-universe source for the statements that Sidious could summon the Force Storm is his own "Dark Side Compendium".

So even if we discount Veitch's claim completely, we have to consider exactly what the Compendium was.

Its stated purpose was to be the ultimate collection of Dark Side lore, but that doesn't make sense because:
a)that's what holocrons were for
b)Sidious allowed his followers access to it. That goes against his policy of feeding his followers scraps and keeping the real Dark Side goodies for himself.
...unless the books were not what he claimed they were.

Rather they were a self-aggrandizing work where Sidious to espouse his philosophy, propagandize and brag about his achievements, not give every average Joe darksider a road map to power.

tl;dr Sidious claims he can summon Force Storms in his version of Mein Kampf but I would take his claims with a grain of salt.

Unbowed, do you plan on another assault on Gideon Island, or have you conceded inferiority to The Sheev One?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Unbowed, do you plan on another assault on Gideon Island, or have you conceded inferiority to The Sheev One?
Okay, that was rude of me. Edited.

I shall never rest until everyone acknowledges both Exar Kun and Krayt as Sidious' superiors.

You = Failure.

Gideon = Success.

Have you embraced this fact? If not, what's your next assault to topple the throne?

Your efforts of destroying Palpatine and praising Kun and Krayt have been humiliating.

Do you plan to champion a new character, or what? Share, share.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You = Failure.

Gideon = Success.

Have you embraced this fact? If not, what's your next assault to topple the throne?

Your efforts of destroying Palpatine and praising Kun and Krayt have been humiliating.

Do you plan to champion a new character, or what? Share, share.
I don't know about Kun but I count my efforts for Krayt as a success given the fact that a certain someone who posted in this thread ran from that Krayt/Luke vs Abeloth thread with his tail between his legs.

And I don't hate Sidious, just his fans. I just acknowledge Sidious' proper place in the Sith hierarchy.

Without the storms he's the second most powerful Sith Lord imo. Vitiate has feats putting him above Sidious in a couple regards, and Valkorion is already superior to DE Sidious WITH Storms. Those Storms are quite literally the only thing that make him the most powerful Sith, otherwise Vitiate is superior.

a rather drastic change of heart Darthant66, Gideon must be a success for his appearance to suddenly change your opinion on the matter:

http://yoe.com/images/buttkiss/buttkiss.gif

Ziggy, can you direct me to a thread where you've said something remotely funny and/or relevant?

How about the time I provoked - ITS KULLVAX!!Ih8 her. That was pretty amusing an relevant enough for you to cry about it.

Originally posted by Unbowed
I don't know about Kun but I count my efforts for Krayt as a success given the fact that a certain someone who posted in this thread ran from that Krayt/Luke vs Abeloth thread with his tail between his legs.

It says something about your unfamiliarity with victory that you would conflate it with argumentum ad nauseam. Plenty of people called you out on your skewed interpretation, Nai, Ares, and NewGuy included. If it comforts you to think you won simply because I got tired of talking about it, by all means.

Originally posted by Unbowed
And I don't hate Sidious, just his fans. I just acknowledge Sidious' proper place in the Sith hierarchy.

You should also know that Sheevites thrive off hatred, so all you do is fuel their power.

Seems like asking authors to comment on works they've made years ago isn't very reliable - and yes, that extends beyond Veitch. Veitch himself has Palpatine using Force Storms without "mental conflict", and in the audio drama, Palpatine clearly doesn't need any mental conflict to enact his powers.

It's a bizarre thing to say really. Since when do mental struggles create sudden explosions of Force energy. And where in the text does Palpatine engage in this struggle with Luke?

There's not, him and Palps just connect minds. There's no evidence of any struggle. The only time he actually loses control, was when Luke and Leia did the Force Harmony thing.

Plus, if all the other stuff is true...then how exactly did Palpatine transport Luke? I mean the only other way, is him knowing Fold Space, but I'm pretty sure that ability came after DE. Yet it's made quite clear that it's a hyperspace wormhole that transports Luke even before they touch minds, if Palpatine couldn't control them...then I don't see how Luke could survive.

Other sources confirm that Palpatine learnt the power and practiced it before DE, too. Whose minds was he struggling with every time he tried it those times?