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TEAM ONE - THE WAR HEROES
* Revan
* Mace Windu
* Anakin Skywalker
* Obi-Wan Kenobi
* Thrawn Trilogy Luke Skywalker

TEAM TWO - ANCIENT SITH
* Ajunta Pall
* Karness Muur
* Naga Sadow
* Ludo Kressh (with Kressh's gauntlet)
* Freedon Nadd

Round 1: Lightsabers and physical fight only.
Round 2: All out.
Round 3: Fight takes place on Korriban. Sith have 30 minutes of prep. Anakin is within the state of mind from Dooku's demise, Obi-Wan from Florrum, Mace from Palpatine fight.

Mace and Anakin kill them all by themselves.

Jedi take sabers, but there's no way they take all-out. With Revan they can take Ajunta Pall without too much trouble, Naga Sadow goes the same way, but Karness Muur, Freedon Nadd and an invincible Ludo?

The third round is just even worse, whilst the Jedi are much better here than in round 2, not only are the Sith amped, but they have thirty minutes to prepare sorcery attacks. Obi-Wan and Luke drop fast, Windu's loop isn't protecting him from sorcery so he drops too. Anakin is done as soon as one of them attacks him mentally. Revan can't carry that team.

Windu from the Palpatine fight and Anakin during his Dooku fight? You seriously think the ancient sith can not-die?

Heroes win, they're thd best fighters.

1. Jedi
2. Jedi
3. Jedi

Jedi win, but it's from easy.

I think Jedi stomp in round 1. Anyone from team 1 is better than anyone from team 2 in lightsaber combat. The only exception can be possibly Karness Muur at best. Ancients don't stand a chance there.

Round 2 is more tricky. This is 5 vs. 5, so plenty of possibilities for Sith sorcery that can target Obi-Wan or Luke, or generally unstable Anakin in case of mind-targeting sorcery. It's pretty debatable.

I created round 3 specifically so it should be obvious for everyone Jedi utterly stomp.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Mace and Anakin kill them all by themselves.

Once again, this kind of stupidity was sorely missed.

Jedi easily win the saber battle. Sith win the force battle.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Jedi win, but it's from easy.

I don't see how this is much of a contest when we look at the stipulations; we have Zone Anakin and super-vaapad Windu, both Sidious+ tier combatants.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I don't see how this is much of a contest when we look at the stipulations; we have Zone Anakin and super-vaapad Windu, both Sidious+ tier combatants. Didn't see that stip, yeah Jedi should win pretty easy then.

Sidious+ tier lightsaber combatants who have no experience whatsoever dealing with amped and prep'd sorcery attacks. Ludo Kressh is literally invincible ffs.

I'm sure Windu knows about sorcery, but regardless, I'm not sure if that even matters. The disparity in raw power is so great that you might get a lesser version of Krayt vs. Abeloth, in that the trump move injures but simply can't kill.

Anakin's mental weakness would reduce him to Dooku tier against sorcery like Muur's or Nadd's. Vaapad's loop isn't going to protect against thirty minute prep'd sorcery attacks either.

Zone Anakin is intensely mentally focused; he's basically described as winning just be deciding to do so. And why wouldn't vaapad affect sorcery?

Zone Anakin was knocked mentally off balance by Dooku in their fight and he lost his edge as Dooku noted.

Vaapad allowed Mace Windu to loop the augmented attacks back at Sidious, but it wouldn't hold off Sidious' lightning barrage for a prolonged amount of time. Sorcery is neither and nothing states Vaapad is going to protect against it.

That's not an argument. Lets start with "Why would Vaapad affect sorcery" and work our way to any kind of proof that it does (there isn't), followed by desperate rationalizing.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Zone Anakin was knocked mentally off balance by Dooku in their fight and he lost his edge as Dooku noted.

Vaapad allowed Mace Windu to loop the augmented attacks back at Sidious, but it wouldn't hold off Sidious' lightning barrage for a prolonged amount of time. Sorcery is neither and nothing states Vaapad is going to protect against it.

We went through this before on CV. Vaapad regurgitated passive Force displays (Force speed, fury, etc.) and direct attacks (lightning) from the most powerful Sith ever. There's little to no reason to believe that it wouldn't do the same for Force attacks from lesser Sith.

^ To an extent and its circumstantial. You can't just say Mace defeated Sidious therefore he can defeat any lesser Sith :/

They aren't conventional Force attacks though, this is thirty minute prepared sorcery on a dark side nexus, the attack probably isn't even a direct damage assault.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
^ To an extent and its circumstantial. You can't just say Mace defeated Sidious therefore he can defeat any lesser Sith :/

I can say that a person who has the means to mitigate or nullify outright the Force power of the strongest Sith ever in Palpatine has the means to do the same against Sith with less power.

Does that mean Mace necessarily wins all his battles against Sith? Not quite.

It isn't about raw power, Gid.

Originally posted by AncientPower
They aren't conventional Force attacks though, this is thirty minute prepared sorcery on a dark side nexus, the attack probably isn't even a direct damage assault.

But neither is Force speed.

It's Sidious' augmentation/fury being used against him in turn, sort of like using an opponent's momentum to drive a victory. Sorcery that can rip your spirit out of your body or dominate your mind with illusions; just isn't going to tick that box.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
We went through this before on CV. Vaapad regurgitated passive Force displays (Force speed, fury, etc.) and direct attacks (lightning) from the most powerful Sith ever. There's little to no reason to believe that it wouldn't do the same for Force attacks from lesser Sith.

There's a far cry between lesser sith (singular), and 5 of the most powerful sorcerers in the mythos. There's virtually no evidence or argument that could be made for Mace getting canned. And that's after some kind of proof that Vaapad has a similar effect on sith sorcery.

Originally posted by AncientPower
It's Sidious' augmentation/fury being used against him in turn, sort of like using an opponent's momentum to drive a victory. Sorcery that can rip your spirit out of your body or dominate your mind with illusions; just isn't going to tick that box.

The metaphysical mumbojumbo of Vaapad is pretty ridiculous: let's not pretend there's a coherent explanation for why and how it regurgitates Sheev's Force speed, which is a directionless, passive use of the Force.

The entire concept is pretty hard to fathom but I see no reason why sorcery would be immune to Vaapad's effects, since Vaapad can effect passive and direct Force displays from the mightiest Sith of all.

You're assuming sith sorcery consisted of the same properties. It's very naive to assume because force attack a and b are stopped, y and z should also be stopped.

Did Mace's Vaapad actually reciprocate Sidious' Force speed? It seems like the huge amount of darkness within Mace was simply channeled through Vaapad, which made him stronger overall (ie. Force augmentation).

Originally posted by SunRazer
Did Mace's Vaapad actually reciprocate Sidious' Force speed? It seems like the huge amount of darkness within Mace was simply channeled through Vaapad, which made him stronger overall (ie. Force augmentation).

I think it was Vaapad's working (own inner darkness + Sidious's darkness) which amplified Mace, didn't Mace & Sidious also look almost invisible to Anakin during that duel according to the novel?

IT DID SAY THAT, BUT ANAKIN NEVER SEES THEM DUEL IN THE MOVIE, THEREFORE THAT QUOTE IS FAKE AND GARBAGE. SORRY.

As Luke said in the RotJ novelization, if something is from the Force, it can be deflected by the Force; he then manages to stop Palpatine's lightning, albeit for a brief instant, despite having never encountered it before or learned tutanimus. There's no reason to think sorcery is an exception.

There is no reason to think it's similar. Bane is able to stop all of Zannah's attacks. Then Zannah uses sith sorcery and he's screwed. Nothing states Vaapad can stop it just because it's using the force.