Ren or Vader; Choose wisely

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quanchi112
I am disgusted by those who believe in Vader more so than Kylo Ren. This is the thread in which you declare where your loyalties lie. Make no mistake Vader fans I will haunt you.

aalyasecura95
vader easily no offense but kylo was a weak ass ***** he didnt even feel like a villain and was stupid imo. was cheering for rey when she stood up to him and showed him whos boss.

UCanShootMyNova
Quan. I love you. But how are you going to haunt the entire forum?

darthbane77
Originally posted by aalyasecura95
vader easily no offense but kylo was a weak ass ***** he didnt even feel like a villain and was stupid imo. was cheering for rey when she stood up to him and showed him whos boss. No. Kylo Ren displayed abilities and raw power beyond almost anything seen in the films by far. He's stated to be one of the most powerful combatants in history as per the new canon, Kylo is far from weak.

darthbane77
I have to side with Vader on this one. Unless we're going strictly by the films Vader has feats far more impressive than Kylo's. Though Ren is by no means weak.

UCanShootMyNova
Sorry, what?

Greatest combatant quote please?

darthbane77
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Sorry, what?

Greatest combatant quote please? One second.

darthbane77
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Sorry, what?

Greatest combatant quote please? "Kylo Ren has a lifetime of training and practice, is one of the most powerful combatants in the history of Star Wars, and is the leader of the Knights of Ren."

StarWars.com

UCanShootMyNova
I found it in your thread.

Well assuming that only applies to canon that would make sense as of now.

darthbane77
Yeah, pretty sure it's canon only. Because I can't see Kylo contending with a majority of EU characters with more than a couple feats to their names.

Kurk
In terms of strictly canon Ren seems to have a much greater potential in the force than Vader. That's all I can say.

NewGuy01
I didn't get that impression at all. Vader's casually crunched AT-ATs in canon.

aalyasecura95
to darthbane77: sorry but thats just bs. you've got to be a fanboy to believe kylo was on of the top fighters obviously disney is trying to make ren look good because he looked like a pussy in the movies lol no offense. people like shaak ti and ahsoka would kick his ass easily no contest. thats what real fighters look like and kylo doesnt compare to them. from: aalyasecura95

UCanShootMyNova
Disney's statements trump debater's opinion tbh.

Kurk
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I didn't get that impression at all. Vader's casually crunched AT-ATs in canon.
I don't believe it's a radical claim seeing how immature and unrefined he is yet is able to freeze blaster bolts in mid-air. Ren is far from perfect but his force powers seems pretty impressive when compared to Anakin.

UCanShootMyNova
Canon Anakin? You know he's slid ATST's, collapsed multiple story structures and created small hurricanes?

aalyasecura95
to ucanshootmynova: sorry but it is up to us the debaters to call disney out on bs and this is bs. do you think kylo would even stand a chance against someone like ahsoka?? not buying it. if disney is handing out statements like that to people like kylo then pretty much anyone could get them in the future. when will it be too far for you??? when moralo eval is top duelist in the galaxy??? dont take everything at face value thats called being gullible. from: aalyasecura95

darthbane77
Originally posted by aalyasecura95
to darthbane77: sorry but thats just bs. you've got to be a fanboy to believe kylo was on of the top fighters obviously disney is trying to make ren look good because he looked like a pussy in the movies lol no offense. people like shaak ti and ahsoka would kick his ass easily no contest. thats what real fighters look like and kylo doesnt compare to them. from: aalyasecura95 So what you're saying is that the official quote I just provided stating Ren as one of the greatest combatants in Star Wars has no weight? Official statements>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>your opinion.

ares834
Originally posted by Kurk
I don't believe it's a radical claim seeing how immature and unrefined he is yet is able to freeze blaster bolts in mid-air. Ren is far from perfect but his force powers seems pretty impressive when compared to Anakin.

Kylo definitely appears to have a lot of raw power, but I certainly wouldn't compare him favorably to Anakin in any regard as of now.

DarthAnt66
I wouldn't compare Vader to Anakin either, so it's OK. wink

ares834
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I wouldn't compare Vader to Anakin either, so it's OK. wink

thumb up

That true, I wouldn't either. Vader's far more powerful.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by aalyasecura95
to ucanshootmynova: sorry but it is up to us the debaters to call disney out on bs and this is bs. do you think kylo would even stand a chance against someone like ahsoka?? not buying it. if disney is handing out statements like that to people like kylo then pretty much anyone could get them in the future. when will it be too far for you??? when moralo eval is top duelist in the galaxy??? dont take everything at face value thats called being gullible. from: aalyasecura95

Is this Jack or one of the Ancients?

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by ares834
thumb up

That true, I wouldn't either. Vader's far more powerful.

Tbh. thumb up

aalyasecura95
to darthbane77: it has no weight until it is properly proven when kylo does something impressive until then its not to be taken at face value. if we just believed them without evidence that would be dumb because they are just words the phrase action speaks louder than words comes to mind here.

to ucanshootmynova: so no response to my argument?? also i'm not ancient lol i joined really recently and jack??? i assume thats some guy on this site? although i dont care either way just would like to see you defend that obviously bs quote instead of dodging the question please. from: aalyasecura95

ares834
Originally posted by aalyasecura95
from: aalyasecura95

lmao

darthbane77
Originally posted by aalyasecura95
to darthbane77: it has no weight until it is properly proven when kylo does something impressive until then its not to be taken at face value. if we just believed them without evidence that would be dumb because they are just words the phrase action speaks louder than words comes to mind here.

to ucanshootmynova: so no response to my argument?? also i'm not ancient lol i joined really recently and jack??? i assume thats some guy on this site? although i dont care either way just would like to see you defend that obviously bs quote instead of dodging the question please. from: aalyasecura95 Not seeing anything that refutes my quote lol. Your opinion is cancer, and that's saying something coming from me. And these guys think I'm bad lol.

quanchi112
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Quan. I love you. But how are you going to haunt the entire forum? Endless replies attacking Vader.

quanchi112
Originally posted by aalyasecura95
to ucanshootmynova: sorry but it is up to us the debaters to call disney out on bs and this is bs. do you think kylo would even stand a chance against someone like ahsoka?? not buying it. if disney is handing out statements like that to people like kylo then pretty much anyone could get them in the future. when will it be too far for you??? when moralo eval is top duelist in the galaxy??? dont take everything at face value thats called being gullible. from: aalyasecura95 This is all prior to Kylo's training being complete. Look at Anakin in AOTC and how moronic and childish he was. Mark my words boy and mark them well. Ren will make Vader look pathetic by trilogy's end.

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by quanchi112
This is all prior to Kylo's training being complete. Look at Anakin in AOTC and how moronic and childish he was. Mark my words boy and mark them well. Ren will make Vader look pathetic by trilogy's end.

You understand it my friend smile

playa1258
Vader is far superior to Kylo Ren. Vader has the feats in the Disney canon to prove it. Kylo is also afraid he will never be on the level of Vader.

MythLord
As a combatant? Vader stomps, yeah.

As a character? I don't think Vader is out of Ren's league, tbh.

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by playa1258
Vader is far superior to Kylo Ren. Vader has the feats in the Disney canon to prove it. Kylo is also afraid he will never be on the level of Vader.

Feats say everything now? Kylo is afrad that he isn't going to be as strong as Vader, you're the one placing a combative context around it.

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by MythLord
As a combatant? Vader stomps, yeah.

As a character? I don't think Vader is out of Ren's league, tbh.

Vader wasn't stomping Ahsoka so he is definitely not going to stomp Kylo.

SunRazer
Kylo's a match for Ahsoka now?

MythLord
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Vader wasn't stomping Ahsoka so he is definitely not going to stomp Kylo.

Rebels Tano is probably > Ren, tbh.

And I was referring to EU Vader.

MS Warehouse
Comparing Kylo Ren to Vader is like comparing Luke Walton to to Lebron James. Kylo so far has been a terrible emo-like character well suited for millennials.

DarthDuelist9
He's probably better then Ahsoka... Let me explain myself here:

What makes a Force user a good combatant (both with the Force and a lightsaber)? It's his/her training, potential, raw power, aptitude for combat, ....right? So it's pretty believable that all those characteristics point towards Kylo , due to his lineage (grandson of Anakin Skywalker) and the accolades he received (from the Visual Guide), besides the training both fighters received which is the most important argument for Ahsoka I've seen come foward. Now let's analyze the training Kylo's received up to The Force Awakens and compare it to Ahsoka's.

First we know that Luke Skywalker, Ben/Kylo's Jedi Master, was trained by Yoda to the point that he was considered a full fledged Jedi Knight (RotJ), sure his time under Yoda was limited but his immense potential in the Force made up for that (besides that in the Revenge of the Sith novelization Yoda says to Obi-Wan that the traditional methode of training isn't the only way to do it IIRC). At this point Luke should be able to pass down his knowledge and train other students to that same extent like for example was done in the PT Jedi Order, right?
Add to that the fact that Luke began studying the Force extensively after the destruction of the Empire (Source: Bloodline, The Character Encyclopedia and Shattered Empire comic) and learned a lot from Lor San Tekka, who recovered much of the old Jedi's history, possessed many Jedi secrets, visited every single Jedi ruin and had knowledge about many ancient Jedi traditions. So Kylo's Jedi training was provided by someone who was not only a trained Jedi himself but also studied the Force and the Jedi traditions of the old Order. Now is the training Anakin's capable of providing Ahsoka really better then Luke's? To my opinion, no becuase Luke actually studied the Force to a greater degree over a longer duration of time.

However this was only Kylo's Jedi training, if we now take a look at his training under Snoke, who was said to have immense knowledge of the Dark Side of the Force and how Kylo, even at the point of The Force Awakens, has studied rare Dark Side lore then it's only logical that not only did Kylo receive more training then Ahsoka but also to noticeable greater degree (Ahsoka was never noted to have studied rare Force powers or anything in that area).

That's why I think Kylo's a better combatant then Ahsoka, every single aspect that defines a warrior is pointed towards Kylo Ren, from pure connection to the Force to his training.

Beniboybling
In terms of his knowledge and mastery over the Force, Kylo is probably better than Ahsoka. However in terms of duelling talent, within the scope of Canon, classically trained duelists > those products of improvised teachings, and the primitive style he demonstrates in TFA is deliberately intended to reflect that. Kylo's Force advantage isn't substantial enough to make up for Ahsoka's advantage in skill imo when she's holding her own against powerhouses like Maul & Vader, so indeed, she would best him.

quanchi112
Originally posted by playa1258
Vader is far superior to Kylo Ren. Vader has the feats in the Disney canon to prove it. Kylo is also afraid he will never be on the level of Vader. An untrained Kylo. Anakin was afraid of losing his mother, wife, and was disrespected by the Jedi in his own infantile mind. Kylo already eclipsed him in evil. His blaster bolt catching force feat eclipses live action Vader as well. Kylo is better. Wait until you see him when his training has been completed.

Snoke and Kylo >>>Palpatine and Vader. Mark my words. I've said it from the beginning.

quanchi112
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Comparing Kylo Ren to Vader is like comparing Luke Walton to to Lebron James. Kylo so far has been a terrible emo-like character well suited for millennials. Another post highlighting your emotional laden posts which no one takes seriously. Kylo Ren is a big deal. His training isn't even complete yet. I get it you like a guy who cried when he lost his mother and his pathetic wife. You are probably crying at this very moment but I bet you can't explain why. Weak.

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by quanchi112
Another post highlighting your emotional laden posts which no one takes seriously. Kylo Ren is a big deal. His training isn't even complete yet. I get it you like a guy who cried when he lost his mother and his pathetic wife. You are probably crying at this very moment but I bet you can't explain why. Weak.

Yes. This coming from the child nerd raging about his character sucking and threatening to stalk those who disagree with him, then making a thread confirming his butthurt.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/316/773/59d.jpg

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by Beniboybling
In terms of his knowledge and mastery over the Force, Kylo is probably better than Ahsoka. However in terms of duelling talent, within the scope of Canon, classically trained duelists > those products of improvised teachings, and the primitive style he demonstrates in TFA is deliberately intended to reflect that. Kylo's Force advantage isn't substantial enough to make up for Ahsoka's advantage in skill imo when she's holding her own against powerhouses like Maul & Vader, so indeed, she would best him.

That would be true for Star Wars Rebels where you have Kanan who's barely trained as a Padawan. Looking at how Luke was able to match Vader, a classically trained duelist, and how he gained a vast amount of knowledge about the old Jedi Order (which most likely included the fighting styles), I doubt that it would make Ahsoka > Kylo in terms of duelling especially since this same Luke trianed Kylo.

quanchi112
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Yes. This coming from the child nerd raging about his character sucking and threatening to stalk those who disagree with him, then making a thread confirming his butthurt.

What kind of emotional wimp thinks stalking is replying to dissenters on a message board people come to debate. If your skin is this thin avoid this site at all costs. Stalkers everywhere you crybaby wimp.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
That would be true for Star Wars Rebels where you have Kanan who's barely trained as a Padawan. Looking at how Luke was able to match Vader, a classically trained duelist, and how he gained a vast amount of knowledge about the old Jedi Order (which most likely included the fighting styles), I doubt that it would make Ahsoka > Kylo in terms of duelling especially since this same Luke trianed Kylo. You're speculating. The fact remains that Kylo has only demonstrated crude talent with a lightsaber, the weapon itself reflecting his inexperience, and though Luke's knowledge of Jedi history and traditions appears somewhat substantial, I'm seeing no evidence to suggest it involved comprehensive knowledge of the Jedi fighting arts, which it stands to reason was largely erased by the Empire.

Luke may have been able to match Vader in Form V but Kylo is no Luke, and I see no reason to believe he'd be a match for someone who was trained by Anakin, one of the greatest Jedi of the Order (whereas Luke lacks both resources and experience as a teacher) and developed lightsaber talents that proved a challenge for Vader and rivalled that of Darth Maul, one of the most skilled Sith in history.

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by quanchi112
What kind of emotional wimp thinks stalking is replying to dissenters on a message board people come to debate. If your skin is this thin avoid this site at all costs. Stalkers everywhere you crybaby wimp. boo hoo

quanchi112
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
boo hoo So you just confirmed your tears. By the way Vader is dead. Kylo isn't. Win/win.

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by quanchi112
So you just confirmed your tears. By the way Vader is dead. Kylo isn't. Win/win. please continue the butthurt for our amusement.

quanchi112
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
please continue the butthurt for our amusement. You say the same things in every thread. You aren't even amusing or intelligent. You love crybabies like Anakin. It's fine. He ended up dying going back to the light. Wimp.

Trocity
Kylo was mind raped by a scavenger.

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by quanchi112
You say the same things in every thread. You aren't even amusing or intelligent. You love crybabies like Anakin. It's fine. He ended up dying going back to the light. Wimp. continue crying

quanchi112
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
continue crying Yes, feel free to get back to me after you get this out of your system. You are a second rate wimp.

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, feel free to get back to me after you get this out of your system. You are a second rate wimp. yes yes keep crying, let it all out.

quanchi112
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
yes yes keep crying, let it all out. Kylo is alive and will be stronger. Vader is a dead guy who failed the dark side. I love life right now! Praise be to the First Order.

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by quanchi112
Kylo is alive and will be stronger. Vader is a dead guy who failed the dark side. I love life right now! Praise be to the First Order. rationalizing is the final step..

quanchi112
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
rationalizing is the final step.. I am stating facts. Kylo is alive and will complete his training. Vader is dead and turned in the dark side. You may love a traitor I don't. I love the First Order which is canonically proven to be more efficient than the empire.

MS Warehouse
Yea that's a cute opinion. So is the comment of you allegedly loving life while continuously having your opinion criticized and intelligence questioned. Hence the rationalizing.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm seeing no evidence to suggest it involved comprehensive knowledge of the Jedi fighting arts, which it stands to reason was largely erased by the Empire..

? So then how were the Inquisitors trained? Plus recalling the GI did have access to databanks of the Jedi fighting arts so..I don't see why the Empire would erase information that Inquisitors would need.

Beniboybling
Erased or otherwise stolen, either way not accessible to Luke.

Darth Truculent
Our Tale of the Tape:

Vader:
- Former fully trained Jedi Knight and Sith Lord
- Ability to kill across spanse of the galaxy, stop blaster bolts with bare "hands"
- Created own lightsaber form (Djem So, Soresu, Ataru mixed)
- Well over 30 years combat experience
- Defeated by his son

Kylo Ren:
- Failed Jedi Apprentice and Master of the Knights of Ren
Has not completed dark side training
- Ability to telekinetic freeze blaster bolts and beings
- Use of tri-saber with Kyber crystal and probably lightsaber form Djem So
- Acts like a teenager when does not get his way
- Defeated by an untrained Force user (who probably is Luke's kid)

This goes to Vader

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by Beniboybling
You're speculating. The fact remains that Kylo has only demonstrated crude talent with a lightsaber, the weapon itself reflecting his inexperience, and though Luke's knowledge of Jedi history and traditions appears somewhat substantial, I'm seeing no evidence to suggest it involved comprehensive knowledge of the Jedi fighting arts, which it stands to reason was largely erased by the Empire.

Luke may have been able to match Vader in Form V but Kylo is no Luke, and I see no reason to believe he'd be a match for someone who was trained by Anakin, one of the greatest Jedi of the Order (whereas Luke lacks both resources and experience as a teacher) and developed lightsaber talents that proved a challenge for Vader and rivalled that of Darth Maul, one of the most skilled Sith in history.

Speculating? Everything I said was based on actual evidence besides Luke obtaining knowledge of the classic lightsaber forms but that hardly does anything to my entire argument. Kylo's crude and unstable lightsaber is confirmed by the cast of TFA to be because of his own conflicted personality, not because he lacks knowledge.

And Ahsoka is no Darth Vader, what is your point? Luke actually studied the Force and Jedi traditions in genersl to a greater extent then Anakin by the time of TFA. You bringing up feats from Ahsoka isn't really usable against Kylo since he lacks those kind of feats.

Petrus
For now, Vader is the clear choice here.

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by Petrus
For now, Vader is the clear choice here.

In terms of combative prowess absolutely but he isn't stomping , not even close.

Deronn_solo
lal @ DD9 thinking his arguments hold up against scrutiny.

Rebel95
As of now, Vader easily. But that could change by the end of the trilogy.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Speculating? Everything I said was based on actual evidence besides Luke obtaining knowledge of the classic lightsaber forms but that hardly does anything to my entire argument. Kylo's crude and unstable lightsaber is confirmed by the cast of TFA to be because of his own conflicted personality, not because he lacks knowledge. Yes, speculation, you've raised no proof that Luke possessed comprehensive knowledge of the Jedi fighting arts, and would have been able to pass that down to Kylo, nor has Kylo done anything to suggest he is a match for one the most skilled Sith in history. That simple. And Kylo's crude and unstable weapon reflects the fact he doesn't know how to build a frikken lightsaber, or to quote the TFA Visual Dictionary, "suggests construction by an inexperienced hand." But it's his cruder "primitive" fighting style that speaks volumes. thumb upMy point is friend that we can't expect Kylo to achieve the same level of talent as Luke, who possessed the potential of the Chosen One, Ahsoka's feats speak for themselves. Nor are Force traditions relevant to lightsaber combat.

And of course Tano's feats are usable against Kylo, it places the burden or proof on you to demonstrate he is a match for them, so far so unsuccessful.Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
In terms of combative prowess absolutely but he isn't stomping , not even close. An all-out Vader would win comfortably, though it wouldn't necessarily be a stomp.

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yes, speculation, you've raised no proof that Luke possessed comprehensive knowledge of the Jedi fighting arts, and would have been able to pass that down to Kylo, nor has Kylo done anything to suggest he is a match for one the most skilled Sith in history. That simple. And Kylo's crude and unstable weapon reflects the fact he doesn't know how to build a frikken lightsaber, or to quote the TFA Visual Dictionary, "suggests construction by an inexperienced hand." But it's his cruder "primitive" fighting style that speaks volumes. thumb upMy point is friend that we can't expect Kylo to achieve the same level of talent as Luke, who possessed the potential of the Chosen One, Ahsoka's feats speak for themselves. Nor are Force traditions relevant to lightsaber combat.

And of course Tano's feats are usable against Kylo, it places the burden or proof on you to demonstrate he is a match for them, so far so unsuccessful.An all-out Vader would win comfortably, though it wouldn't necessarily be a stomp.

Like I said, it doesn't influence my argument in general. Kylo just hasn't been put in a situation like Ahsoka ik Season 2 to prove himself but that doesn't mean he can't. He's inexperienced in terms of lightsaber building? Now that definitely means that he's a bad combatant. How do you know his fightingstyle is primitive and what does it matter he isn't as talented as Luke? His talent still outsptrips that of Ahsoka and so does his amount of training. It's Jedi traditions, Jedi history and Jedi secrets, that can include anything ranging from combat to spiritual approach of the Force.

Like I said previously in my comment, Kylo hasn't been put against the same opponents Ahsoka has, but that doesn't mean he can't perform similarly or better. That's why I compare their training, potential, ...

My general argument comes down to the fact that Kylo has every single thing in his favor, yes even training. It means jack shit that he isn't trained in the traditional sense of fighting, it didn't help Vader against Luke nor is it going to help Ahsoka against Kylo because like in Luke against Vader, Kylo is the one who possesses the bigger potential, better connection to the Force and even the amount of training by a more knowledgeable master then Ahsoka's.

Beniboybling
EDIT: Ah what the hell, I'll make a final effort.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Like I said, it doesn't influence my argument in general.Uh-huh, Ahsoka > Ren as a duelist, that's the point of contention here.The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate he can.It reflects his inexperience in general yes, this may well be the first lightsaber he's ever handled.Because J.J. described it in that way and its visibly crude.It matters because it makes your comparison to Luke irrelevant.In regards to lightsaber combat you still haven't proven that.You haven't proven this either.I'm not interested it what you think it might involve, I'm asking for proof, not assumptions.Which again, it's down to you to prove. Regardless this only makes him inexperienced.And there is no evidence that Kylo's lightsaber training was as good as Ahsoka's.Aside from classical training and demonstrated skill with a lightsaber, sure.Luke didn't have half those things on Vader, but OK, more importantly though there is no evidence to suggest Luke is a better lightsaber combat instructor than Anakin, one of the most talented duelists in Jedi history, with all the Jedi's combat knowledge and resources at his disposal, and its ridiculous to assume otherwise.

EmperorSidious2
I would say Vader

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by Beniboybling
EDIT: Ah what the hell, I'll make a final effort.

Uh-huh, Ahsoka > Ren as a duelist, that's the point of contention here.The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate he can.It reflects his inexperience in general yes, this may well be the first lightsaber he's ever handled.Because J.J. described it in that way and its visibly crude.It matters because it makes your comparison to Luke irrelevant.In regards to lightsaber combat you still haven't proven that.You haven't proven this either.I'm not interested it what you think it might involve, I'm asking for proof, not assumptions.Which again, it's down to you to prove. Regardless this only makes him inexperienced.And there is no evidence that Kylo's lightsaber training was as good as Ahsoka's.Aside from classical training and demonstrated skill with a lightsaber, sure.Luke didn't have half those things on Vader, but OK, more importantly though there is no evidence to suggest Luke is a better lightsaber combat instructor than Anakin, one of the most talented duelists in Jedi history, with all the Jedi's combat knowledge and resources at his disposal, and its ridiculous to assume otherwise.

Yes I did by comparing his knowledge, training, potential,... and Maul's confirmed to be Ahsoka's superior anyway.

He was trained in lightsaber combat by Luke and we know he started training with Luke at a young age until he was at least 24 years old while Ahsoka left the Jedi Order when she was 17. So no it's not the first lightsaber he's handled nor is he inexperienced in it.

So because his lightsaber style is 'crude' it's automatically bad? JJ's quotes aren't canon, the visual guide which confirms Kylo's training is.

The comparison isn't irrelevant, Kylo is, like Luke, more talented/has a higher potential then Ahsoka (Vader in Luke's case). We know that connection to the Force is the most important aspect when looking at lightsaber talent so yes Kylo's going to be more talentend in it than Ashoka.

It are general terms, I could as easily ask for evidence that it doesn't inlcude Jedi combat knowledge.

You also have no prove Anakin is a better teacher then Luke.... First of all Anakin himself didn't have access to all the Jedi's knowledge (e.g. the holocron vault was only for council members) nor was he ever said to have intesively studied Jedi knowledge which extended beyond his standard training at the hands of Obi-Wan. Luke's knowledge of lightsaber combat in RotJ, as inexperienced as he was, was enough for him to match Vader, like Ahsoka a classical trained duelist, and eventually defaet him so a general more knowledgeable Luke (was studied Jedi lore intensively) would definitely been able to give training to the same extent as he was given when becoming a Jedi.

So tell me why Luke isn't as good a teacher as Anakin? Because he wasn't trained in the classic forms? Didn't stop him against Vader (a classical trained fighter) so it isn't going to stop Kylo against Ahsoka. Because his isn't knowledgeable? Not really since Luke was actually confirmed to have studied old Jedi lore extensively and had something around two decades to grow after RotJ. Or maybe because Luke isn't skilled? Well he matched Vader just fine so I doubt that. Then was is going to stop him?

AncientPower
Ant, what's with the newbie set up?

quanchi112
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Yea that's a cute opinion. So is the comment of you allegedly loving life while continuously having your opinion criticized and intelligence questioned. Hence the rationalizing. I am loving life. I love how you can't let this go.mmi love the impact I have. I am smiling ear to ear.

quanchi112
I finally just voted. Only six of us that prefer Ren. I suspect this will change after episode eight once you sycophants and frontrunners will see more Kylo feats and events after his training was complete. I can't wait to see you weaklings change your tune.

Zenwolf
Quan, I don't see why you have to throw around petty insults for opinions.

Beniboybling
Someone hurt him.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Quan, I don't see why you have to throw around petty insults for opinions. Frontrunners annoy me.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Someone hurt him. Nah.

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Someone hurt him. everyone hurt him. He stalks those people mercilessly while he "loves life".

quanchi112
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
everyone hurt him. He stalks those people mercilessly while he "loves life". I do love life and no this isn't stalking. You still do not understand what stalking actually is. You are a mental midget. Kylo is better than Vader.

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by quanchi112
I do love life and no this isn't stalking. You still do not understand what stalking actually is. You are a mental midget. Kylo is better than Vader.

http://static1.gamespot.com/uploads/scale_medium/1551/15516546/2898389-0594112417-5b3.p.jpg

quanchi112
Another childish and laughable response from the permabanned.

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by quanchi112
Another childish and laughable response from the permabanned.

Another instance of a butthurt 14 year old child using big boy words he doesn't understand.

quanchi112
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Another instance of a butthurt 14 year old child using big boy words he doesn't understand. What words were big boy words ? Your intellect is indeed tiny. Also ironic since you don't even know what stalking means.

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by quanchi112
What words were big boy words ? Your intellect is indeed tiny. Also ironic since you don't even know what stalking means.

Sure thing my butthurt adolescent. I'll let you get the last word in before you retreat back into your world of ridicule thumb up

quanchi112
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Sure thing my butthurt adolescent. I'll let you get the last word in before you retreat back into your world of ridicule thumb up So you concede to me like a weakling and further retreat. Continue to be a beta male. It has gotten you this far so you be you. I win once again.

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by quanchi112
So you concede to me like a weakling and further retreat. Continue to be a beta male. It has gotten you this far so you be you. I win once again.

Yup.. The 14 year old child attributes posting last to "winning". I rest my case.

quanchi112
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Yup.. The 14 year old child attributes posting last to "winning". I rest my case. I own you. You came right back to me mocking of you because you yearn to be respected. It's what you've never achieved in life. Now begone like you said you'd do. I win.

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by quanchi112
I own you. You came right back to me mocking of you because you yearn to be respected. It's what you've never achieved in life. Now begone like you said you'd do. I win.

The delusional rantings of a child laughing out loud

quanchi112
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
The delusional rantings of a child laughing out loud Another post proving I own your soul.

playa1258
Darth Vader is the most popular Star Wars character ever. Something Kylo will never be.

Just another point in the favor of Vader.

quanchi112
Originally posted by playa1258
Darth Vader is the most popular Star Wars character ever. Something Kylo will never be.

Just another point in the favor of Vader. Making my declaration in support of Kylo even more impactful. You're a lemming and agree with the masses. I am individual who thinks for myself you cave dweller.

MS Warehouse
You thinking for yourself doesn't make you appear any less dumb when this is one of those instances where the masses ARE the masses for a reason :up :

quanchi112
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
You thinking for yourself doesn't make you appear any less dumb when this is one of those instances where the masses ARE the masses for a reason :up : Most do not think for themselves such as yourself. Way to applaud mediocrity you turd.


That deserves a real thumbs up you banned pile of excrement. You are an idiot.

thumb up

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by quanchi112
Most do not think for themselves such as yourself. Way to applaud mediocrity you turd.


That deserves a real thumbs up you banned pile of excrement. You are an idiot.

thumb up

Boohoo, the petulant child continues crying laughing out loud

quanchi112
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Boohoo, the petulant child continues crying laughing out loud You can't even properly execute a thumbs up. You are incompetent and a joke.

playa1258
Vader trashed a whole rebel army. Kylo stopped a blaster bolt.

What is more impressive?

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by quanchi112
You can't even properly execute a thumbs up. You are incompetent and a joke.

Keep the butthurt alive laughing out loud

quanchi112
Originally posted by playa1258
Vader trashed a whole rebel army. Kylo stopped a blaster bolt.

What is more impressive? Vader was worked over by Tano, Luke Skywalker, and barely stalemated an aged and shitty Kenobi. I laugh at that shitty army. Hell, even Ezra and Kanan bested him. He's pathetic.

Kylo killed his father and resisted the pull of the light. Vader failed the dark side.

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
Vader was worked over by Tano, Luke Skywalker, and barely stalemated an aged and shitty Kenobi. I laugh at that shitty army. Hell, even Ezra and Kanan bested him. He's pathetic.

Kylo killed his father and resisted the pull of the light. Vader failed the dark side.
I wouldn't say killing your father is something to admire...

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
I wouldn't say killing your father is something to admire... That is because you lack the determination to do what is necessary but not easy.


Ren is definitely better than Vader.

DarthCaedus77
The one who wasn't a shitty rip off of my favourite character.

DarthCaedus77
Note: I actually like Kylo as a character, definitely among the best in canon, complex and interesting with a well crafted arc, good acting and a connection with him as a character I don't have with many.

But he can't touch the original child of Han or Vader, he never could.

RealistRacism
I know Kylo's the best of the new characters, but he's just so damn ugly.

quanchi112
Originally posted by RealistRacism
I know Kylo's the best of the new characters, but he's just so damn ugly. That is what makes him even better. He is so hideous and his hands are so big they are alien like. I am really excited to see what an older, more polished Ren is capable of in episode 9.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by RealistRacism
I know Kylo's the best of the new characters, but he's just so damn ugly.


Im convinced hes actually the incest product of Luke and Leia.

relentless1
Vader is the chosen one, his accolades and abilities shown across canon film, comics TV shows and games put his feats well beyond Rens at this time

Haschwalth
Vader is Starwars.
Kylo is Disney fanfic.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by relentless1
Vader is the chosen one, his accolades and abilities shown across canon film, comics TV shows and games put his feats well beyond Rens at this time


Kylo only has one cool showing which was in his first few minutes of screen time. Freezing the blaster bolt after being fired.

But His training is a joke next to Vaders who was rigorously trained for over a decade by the Jedi at their peak.

Trocity
Vader is stomping in the polls, as 5 of Ren's votes are also trolls.

Vader's superiority is cemented. Long live the King.

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