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guys, what do you think? i think the sex scene just kinda spolied the whole matrix feel dont you think? i think it was a little too elongated and to me it killed the feel........................

I really like that scene it makes me got red. If you look at the faces of the ONE and TRINITY men it was great!!! its was really romantic

What if in the sex scene, trinity got pregnant and their baby is THE ONE? there's got to be something about the long sex scene.......................

Or... some of Neo rubbed onto Trinity just like with Agent Smith. But I doubt it.

there could be a possibility. remeber neo told her he needs her and maybe in revolutions, she would discover her new strenghts and would have to combine her strenght with neos to fight evil...

Yeah!!! its maybe possible!!!!!!!

Yeah, the sexuality in Reloaded really spoiled The Matrix feel.

The W...ski bros just wanted to get more horny teenagers into the theater.

It was uncalled for in my opinion. I dont like movies that blantantly throw in sexuality ju$t for the hell of it.

Neither do I.

TEX, you is da bomb..i TOTALLY agree with you. i think i would have totally loved the movie if those scenes werent there.they kind of killed the innocence of the whole matrix feel. wish i could have a dvd version where those scenes were scrapped. i think they wanted to show us the emotional shenanigans between neo and trinity but i think they overdid it..

i agree too gord..

Then we are in agreement gentlemen.

While i'll agree that they didn't have to make the sex scenes to gratuitous (sp?) i think they needed to be there. the whole reason thw wachowski bros. put the sex scenes in there is because they wanted to show that these are actually humans. not humans trying to be machines to defeat the machines. sexuality is the one thing machines cannot do. they reproduce in factories.

But I do agree that they could have done it a bit more subtly

A lot more subtle.

I just loved this part its make me belive its me with HIM, MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Strange conversation. So was this...scene that vital a part of the movie?

The gratuity of the sexuality in the movie isn't what bothers me. I like a good sex scene now and then. Problem is, action movies like Reloaded would be so much better without overt sexuality. There's a 400% increase in the sexual nature compared to the original Matrix. It makes Reloaded seen like a Bruckheimer/Michael Bay movie.

So why do you think they put more into this one then? To attract more guys and girls or what?

Horny Teenager$ are the target market.

{Ahh I see.....}

not to attract horny teenagers, it's 'R'...they did it because of the reasons i mentioned before and perhaps they've always wanted to have an orgy scene that wasn't NC-17?

It wasn't really important to the rest of the movie, but it shows that Zion is a human city and people do human things there, i guess.

I will take your word for it as you have obviously seen it and I have not. Nor will I.

neo and trinity and babe this babe is a one ...

sure omega..we are aware that they are simply in love and they had sex but do the brothers really have to overemphasize the whole thing? a kiss is just more than enough..

I complain about violence and sex in movies. And what you just said is nonsense.

I've complained about that

Sex is not necessary in movies even if it is to demonstrate the love two main characters feel for each other. I disagree as is my right. That is the part I was making noise about.

For those who said in other chats that the oracle planted the seed of love in trin and neo . The love scene makes more real the love between them. So u see even is the seed was planted>>THEY REALLY LOVE EACH OTHER. So u see it has to be this way. Personaly i really liked this scene .

I stand by my convictions. Nothing personal to anyone here who likes that sort of thing. It is all strictly business.

|A word of advice-Do not take everything anyone here says so personally. There are others here who are not as kind as I am.|

Nothing personal. I just do not care for such things.

omega, first of all don't take this personal, and second, yeah the brothers want us to know those two are deeply in love but hey, we are not dumb..it doesnt take an overconcentrated scene to explain to us that those two are truly in love..imean, look at tom hanks and meg ryan in seapless in seattle, they didnt have to pull their pants and skirts to show us they were in love? unless the brothers actually made the film for the mentally retarded and had to go all that lenght to explain a point. unproffessional dont you think?

I agree there are better ways to get the point across than two people stripping and hanging all over each other. That is disgusting to me and I surely cannot be the only one who feels that way.

Excuse me but I see no problem - how can it be digusting? It's the way the world works. You will have sex someday (maybe...) get it intoo your head - PEOPLE HAVE SEX!!! And say you actually had a girlfriend - would you say a game of tonsil tennis is more romantic then making love? This film is not a cheap porno movie - did you see any 'unnecessary' parts of either Trinity or Neo?

........no?? Then SHUT UP!

icharus, we all know people have sex but hey do you understand what we've been disscusing? it didnt have to be that elaborated. a little bit of kising and maybe a ten second scene would have done it.

I think the scene was GREAAAAAAAAAAAAAT

omega, it is pretty obvious that you do not know what you're saying. if you can take the time to back up on the forum and read your own messages, you would see that you started with the 'taking shit personal' thingy, i didnt. yeah you're right a 'forum is a place where PEOPLE discuss things' and what gives you a tiny bit of impression that you fit into 'the' people? if you like sex scenes and porn which i have figured you do, try a porn movie forum or whatever( you should know), and one more thing, you dont wanna get personal with me...trust me!

i thought you would have known that it's a forum..and the only crying i'm doing is for you chickening out! i love a good challenge.......OOHHHHHHHHH YYYEEAAHHHH....

whats the matter with that beautiful scene i really really LIKED

Absolutely nothing, BT. Nothing. What so ever.

Ok I think they shouldn't of had it. It pretty much killed (for a time) the philosophical overtones of the movie. Here it is going all serious, then the next moment they turn it into a large orgasm party. Fairly sad. I think they did it just because it had an R rating and they could "get away with it." It didn't have to be in the movie at all, everyone already knows Trinity loves Neo.


to equate sex with love is rediculous

true that, dreams infire

I thought it was a great scene. Very powerful.

yeah i really think that too it was necessary coz in M1 bothing ocered. So they had to put it in M2...and its the only sex scene in both movies

||I see we have a long way to go. Several cooments made here are way too agressive. I have not even seen the scene in question so I do not know what was shown and what was left to our collective imagination.||

So go a see it for your self and then u can tell us about ur opinion

||Perhaps.||

And alaba- cool down on that attitude.

||This is a friendly forum after all.||

yes its a friendly forum at all

||Really though-what is the big deal with this scene?||

i dont know

||I don't think the scene was necessary.||

sorry guys..my bad!

Do not apologise my friend.....it is seen as a sign of weakness around here. I still remain opposed to this topic and now go on record as saying so.

Hey its glad u fixed it, well im the one that thinks that scenes was very important, you'll c why in M3

Who cares? Big Whoop!

no gord..i simply apologised for losing my hedge..i still stand on it that the scene is crap and unproffesional...

I agree with Tevesh, I think it showed that humans aren't machines.
But I do reckon it went on for a bit too long and it kinda didn't fit in with the whole feel of the movie.

Yes I agree with the both of you dudes.

the scene is important for the story to understand that neo finally saved trinity instead off all humans.

If you say so. I have not seen it.

Yes that was really True Love, thats way they put it there in the movie. That was the best scene.

OK OK I retract any earlier comments I may have had about the scene. I was led to believe it was full frontal nudity everyone was talking about here. If instead it only had their faces then maybe but I do not know.

Yes good im glad ur opinion changed know u r cool

Thanks. I am more understanding of it now then I was.

See

Yes.

What???

I was agreeing with you Trinity.

yeah but, we are smart arent we? it doesnt take a sex scene to prove that two people are in love now does it? i mean this is something we should have figured out ourselves...i mean if we can figure out all these great and intelligent stuff about the matrix world, then they don't have to go through all that lenght to prove a point....it's really downgrading.

i thought the people grinding on each other showed that we still are human and have animal desires. the most basic instinct is to... get it on!

Yes i think thats the most powerfull characteristics that describe us (pasion)

Passion. I see what you mean.

Actually now I have had time to think about it...I have changed my mind. I don't like it at all.

Here's my theory...

First...the sex scene served one purpose: To build up the idea that Neo REALLY loves Trinity... They are CLOSE. That is to set up for the final decision that Neo is faced with. It is WHY the choice has already been made, he just needs to understand it...

And the rest of the party scene, well, I think that was to convey a message, too. I just think it went over most people's heads. You have to realize more in order to understand it. You have to see it in light of the end to understand this part...

Here are all the people in Zion, complacently basking in hedonism. It's no "zion" at all. That is YET ANOTHER hint that the city of Zion isn't what it is made out to be. But to understand that, you would have to know a thing or two about the 'mythological' zion. So if this "zion" is nothing like the mythical "zion" then perhaps this "real world" is not really the real world...

But that is a topic for another thread dedicated to the subject.

I maintain my disgust at having a scene like that just to demonstrate their alleged love for each other. Just because two people do the deed does not mean they truly are in love. It is a more physical thing these days I am afraid. So I must disagree.

I think the fact that it only showed their faces, makes it beautiful, not disgusting.
Yeah, it did go on for a bit too long, but it still needed to be there.

This is getting absurd. Does the scene show anything more than their faces or not? Either way it does not matter as I am not interested in seeing the movies one bit. To each his(or her) own.

i agree gord...it doesnt take sex to prove love now is it? these days it's all about the physical...so what the brothers are saying is having sex with a whore automatically means you're in love with her?

h ha ha........

so why are you posting comments on every post in this thread, if you do not care about the topic?


Anyways, it has to be said that the orgasm-cake was the best part of the film. fabulous!

Now that is disgusting.

That is what I have been trying to say here! People sure are perverted to get a thrill out of watching something like that. Sickening.

why is it sickening?

Think about what you just said in an earlier post and I am sure it will come to you mah.

no. sex is a natural thing, I fail to see the sickening part of it.

There is far more to a relationship and loving some one than doing the deed. I am so sorry you do not understand this simple fact. Movies like these twist us into thinking sex is the most important aspect in a relationship. That is an incorrect assumption.

But the sex scene is not the only relationship scene concerning them. The movie also shows Neo getting upset when he dreams of Trinity's death. It shows him choosing to save Trinity, rather than Zion. And there are other references about their relationship. The scene is also shown with the rave scene. Neo and Trinity are alone, not part of the crowd. Sending a message of monogamy and commitment, as opposed to what is going on a the party.

Then, there is also the who savior, messiah, god, "One" theme. Their union under an arch is a traditional sign of divinity. From corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm - add a www to the front:

>Neo and Trinity are shown making love beneath an arch. In religious
>iconography, being shown beneath an arch is a traditional sign of
>divinity. Masaccio's fresco at the right, for instance, shows the Holy
>Trinity beneath an arch.

>Neo and Trinity's kissy-face is cut in with the public-lewdness-in-a-
>cave of the decieved Zionites. The real meaning of the overlong rave
>scene is to contrast sacred and profane love.

The reason these movies are so good is that the work on so many levels action, romance, religion, philosophy, etc.

the programed cake was about orgasm? i thought it meant she farted...

Doesn't matter guys, even if there was just the two of them it still doesn't make it right. Two people should be able to love ach other without the physical taking over the entire relationship.

But to try and REMOVE the physical from the importance of a relationship is as flawed as thinking it is the only important thing.

The scene was perfectly valid in its own right.

I liked that scene. In fact that one and the multiple Smith were the only two I liked. The dance was cool... The only thing that was disgusting was that black dots on Neo's and Trinity's bodies... *sigh*

And IMO you have to have sex with somebody before you say you're in love... IMO, always.
But again, what do I know, I'm only 16 years old...

you guys still don't understand my point and gordon's. yes the sex may be necessary but tell me, if it wasnt included, wouldnt we still know they are in love? it's not about showing us how they feel for each other and all that, but we are talking about such scene in such a movie..it just doesnt fit in. the moment the party/sex sscene started, it killed all the juice i had for the movie.......it just wasnt necessary......

But it still had valid power behind it. Not EVERY scene in a film is 100% necessary but that does not mean it doesn't enhance the film. I understood what you said just fine, thanks. Like I said, the scene is VALID. I didn't say it was essential.

I agree.

Another part of the it is that we are watching a movie.
How do you show love between two people in a movie. One seen alone doesn't do it. You need to do several things. Show them kiss, hold hands, sad that one has gone away, getting upset when something bad happens to the other. Etc.

Just like building suspense. Show a man walk into a room and shoot someone - there is no suspense. But, show him clean a gun and put it in his pocket. Then he starts spying on someone. He starts to follow the other person. First in a car, then on foot. He steps right up to the victim, puts his hand in his pocket, pulls out the gun, puts it into the small of his victims back and....there you have suspense.

evy, you're damn right about what you know and what you dont know...it doesnt take sex to prove love..sex is a form of knowing..it means you know more than that person than meets the eye...you don't fall for everyone you've had sex with do you?( er..have you?)

A movie has to include everything. Even sex.

Edit: Not that I should say that, but I haven't had sex yet. So I can't tell. But I do believe that, to say you're in love with someone you have to "match" in every aspect of your life. And that includes sex. I'd never fall in love with someone I haven't had sex with. And I haven't been in love yet, so that proves something... (Ok, ignore my sig! )

evy, trust me..it doesnt...

hey sex is sex, you don't need love... that being said the sex scene was perfect, the machines don't have sex, animals do. we are after all animals. I thought the scene was a good repersentation of the animal instinct that seperates from the machines.
i find the people that didn't like the sex scenes are uncomfortable with sex... for the most part, of course.

Well, then explain that:
You meet someone, you say you're in love with him/her and then you have sex. And... nothing. Boring. No pleasure.
Would you still stay in love with him/her?
IMO, there *has* to be sexual chemistry.

Completely off topic, sorry...

The scene was NOT sex for its own sake. It was way short of that, whiuch is why I think it was valid as it showed a lot of power and emotion.

Saying you do not HAVE to show sex does not mean you should NEVER show sex. I think this scene was tasteful and entirely justifiable. And it should not be shied away from.

y'all still havent answered my question... do you fall in love with everyone you have sex with? y'all are saying it liken it's automatic..you have sex, then you fall in love...i still stand that it's wrong...and EVY, 99% of those who have started a relationship with sex, have split..it usually never lasts. what you call love, is pure desire for the other person's body, and thats it. love comes from the heart, pleasure from the ohysical and there's a great difference between the two.
this is getting out of context....but DAMN... showing neo's ass kinda removed the 'one' feel from it all...DAMN....

totally agree serpent..YOU'RE THE MAN...(er...snake)!

I think the only reason they put the sex scene inthere is to show that neo had a love not just for mankind but a specific person in mankind.This was the reason that neo chose the door on the right to go back and save trinity.

but, yea it does ruin the feeling

I think the sex scene could have been less graphic to show the love, but who knows it could play apart in the next film. Maybe Trinity gets pregnant or something. I agree with Stovenutts, it was put in to show the link between Trinity and Neo, but yes, it could have been shown a little differently.

I thought it was boring. And that rave music and the cave...

What is the point of this discussion anyway?
Everyone has their own views, and no ones changed their point of view yet.......

alaba- Nah, I didn't say you have to fall in love with every guy you have sex with. I said you can't fall in love with someone unless you have slept together. Or better, you may fall in love with someone but then prove they're not what you expected.

Serpent: That's a totally different thing. You're talking about an already built relationship. They already have feelings for each other. They have already have sex. I'm talking about a new couple, that hasn't had sex yet.

No point of the discussion, but I believe we shouldn't be narrow-minded and say: I have my own view, I'm not changing it.

evy, your strenght in this forum lies in making a point and sticking by it, and also finding believers to back you up, so it's not about being narrow minded...
sex DOES not tell you you're in love..it only makes you more attracted to your partner and true love is way stronger than attraction. sex does not define love, it is only a means of knowing. neo HAD

..DIDNT FINISH THAT..

...(kept pressing the damn shift button) as i was saying, neo had fallen for trinity way before they had sex. it was just a process of knowing themselves even more. now picture this..can you imagine in a superman movie, supes having sex with louis lane? i mean a lenghty scene as in the reloaded? you know the director could include that scene to prove to us that aliens too could get their freak on? just think how that sounds? it kills the immortality of the man of steel feel. so that's how it is here...the scene completely murdered the whole movie.

i think that the sex scenes were pretty cool, because it shows the love between them two, i believe that all of the scenes are in their because it is going to explain something that happens in revolutions
we can only wait and see.....

to be concluded... that is the end of M2. I believe none of you know the conclusion which is only available in M3. So why you all try to conclude M2?

Alaba, that I gave the definition of friendly debate. I did *not* imply you're narrow-minded or something, and I believe we're saying the same thing here...

Anyway, back on topic. It seems that we have different views. I didn't like the whole movie, I liked these two particular scenes. You think the opposite. That's a matter of taste. To me, the movie was destroyed by other things, like the boring philosophical discussions.
Also, you still haven't uderstood what I mean. I'm saying you might fall in love with someone before you've had sex (though that doesn't happen often) but then you might not match there. So, I (and I'm talking for myself) would not fall for someone until I've known him a long time and have had sex with him.
Your views approach the matter in a more romantic way. So I think that has to do with your character as well. I'm not that romantic, so my views are somewhat more cynical and realistic. It won't change.
Btw, are you male or female?

I'll agree with you there, the way the love scene was portrayed was much better than alot of other movies have done.

i am not gonna sit here and lie to ya, the plug dealies down their spine creep me out a bit, but its ok i can handle it.

i thought the sex scene in matrix reloaded was fine for the reason of it. it was a tribal and primal kind of situation with the tribal dancing in the court yard the movie although very high tech in so many ways. is still so very much about human conciouness at its core. if the tribal dancing was not happening durring the sex scene the point would have been lost. by the way anyone hear of the fourth movie that has been eluded to called matrix forever

EVY, pardon me but but i didnt mean to personalise the whole thing..everyone has their views and if you say you're more cynical and realistic, then so be it. i respect you for that.
and if you must know, i'm male...

Hey, i totally agree with you all, that the sex scene could have been more subtle, i mean it resculputred the theme of the whole movie which was an extraordinary,action packed cyber thriller.Suddenly when NEO met trintity at the cave ,he goes i need uX" iMISSED u...trinity " ohh ican tell and i will enventually have to prove it come with me...then the DANCE engulfes the night and suddenly FROM FAR this explicit seen gets focus ---closer and closer over and OVER AGAIN i just coudnt bare it it was damn long ya'll and KEANU KEPT pushing and driving TRINITY to her climax--until the obvious and it was soo over and NEO remembers trinity falling --i mean ok the guy new he is going to LOSE trinity eventually so he wanted to give a sex she would never forget in hell, heaven or in between the matrix.Ok but still it was just DAMN LOOOOOOOOOONG here like until u become ashamed of what u expected the movie to be and what u can no longer watch with family and relatives because of that scene- it was necessary but shoulnt have been THAT long now cumon.i mean i hope they would have an edited version where they just SHOW the dancing all the way...that was FUNTASTIC

you're the man saleh....

Well, what can I say. It seems to be the most important subject ever. If a movie doesn't have that kind of scenes it's not good, it has no value. In this case, I guess it shouldn't be given too much attention. (my opinion, don't hit me). It's just a secondary aspect, something to remind our origins. From my point of view the essence of the movie is way more subtle, more spiritual.

i agree AT its natural and SPIRITUALLL yes indeed BUT the LENGTH of that essence and i personally agree and i actually enjoyed when the scene commenced but the the intimacy within i mean U ALMOST THOUGHT u could see NEO's COQ there he really proved to be the ONE but perhaps he OVERDID and exxagerated that goes even for the W...SKI bros... BUT EVERYTHING ELSE WAS A MAGNIFICENT CREATION and MANIPULATION OF EVERY ELEMENT of ACTION-THRILL and out of this world accelerated fighting sequences!!greatest film ever made in MY OPINION well all credit to the W..SKI bros and the only EVENT that can replacce this one is the next sequel REVOULTIONS.HEY did u hear about a proposition to MAKE MATRIX FOREVER by the W>>SKI bros 2 years from now please tell me about it if u know anything..!

Oh, ok.
Me neither, didn't want to personalise it. Anyways, I suppose it's plainly a character matter

the sex scene was just a part of da movie, something to spice things up, to show the reality of thr real world and humankind

Maybe they just wanted to kinda give a glinpse of Neo being deflower or what ever you call it! You now when he left the matrix he was a virgin, they all where! lol

evy, friends again?

I very much doubt it was the first time they "done it".

Yeh I didn't mean it was the 1st, just that all we saw in the 1st one was a kiss! don't really now how to explain myself.Just forget it.

Sure, of course

considering what the wachowski bros. have created I dont think that they would make a mistake like that, I think the sex scene could have something to do with a child in revolutions

or maybe they screwed up

Yeh it probably has somesort of meaning but still that doesn't make it necessary to be big, that didn't even need to show it but I don't think it ruined the movie in anyway. was surprised to see it considering the rating! probably gonne surprise lots of parents!

I thought it was amazing-ok it might have been SLIGHTLY unnecessary but it added to the whole "love thing" between Neo and Trinity.GOD he's fit!(I would add in a quote cos I just saw it for the second time but that might be slightly sad....!)The music in that scene is also really good and for those of us who can't wait to fall in love and have a crush on Keanu, it truly was amazing! I thought it was amazing how they were so in Love and that made Neo different to all the other "Ones"-anyone else agree or am I loner?!

Iagree with the fact that it does make Neo different from the others and thats the key.

svicic i totally disagree with you, the sex scene was TOTALLY over the top. i just saw it today and i thought it ruined a potentially romantic scene... what with all that sweat and boobs flashing up all over the shop i felt sick... AND i fancy keanu reeves too!!

the plugs are kinda freaky!

you guys talking about a neo and trinity having a baby in revolutions think this, the whole movie ends in 24 hrs....i never heard about any form of technology in the movie about making babies in 24 hrs....

Not a baby but made some part of neo rubes (sp) into Trinity. she could already be pregnant of course no baby will come of that either but maybe just knowing that she is could cause another evolution in neo.

i'm not saing that she is, just an idea.