Novel Vitiate vs SoR Revan

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Beniboybling
Round 1: Battle takes place at the Forgotten Terrace.
Round 2: Battle takes place on neutral ground.

Combatants start 10 meters apart, who wins?

DarthAnt66
Enlighten me on the difference between the rounds.

Beniboybling
There isn't necessarily one, but people tend to have differing opinions.

SunRazer
Neutral ground and a stronger version of Revan... he might win, actually. DK was a ridiculously powerful nexus and Revan seems to have grown by quite a noticeable amount. If 10m is closer than the distance between Revan and Vitiate in the novel, I could see Revan winning.

From a longer distance, it's still Vitiate's game, though.

darthbane77
I can see Revan winning this one, Reborn Revan gave novel Vitiate hell; SoR Revan would be more than capable of winning. Though it still wouldn't be easy.

Jmanghan
bump

DarthAnt66
I'd say they're equals.

Geistalt
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'd say they're equals.

If you mean novel Revan = SoR Revan.

UCanShootMyNova
Vitiate.

Geistalt
'Cause no one takes any Vitiate vs. any incarnation of Revan seriously (nor should they).

Jmanghan
Originally posted by Geistalt
'Cause no one takes any Vitiate vs. any incarnation of Revan seriously (nor should they). Ew.

UCanShootMyNova
Honestly now ew at all. Revan isn't comparable.

Deronn_solo
Vitiate.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Honestly now ew at all. Revan isn't comparable. SoR Revan is 100% Comparable to Novel Vitiate, who did all his feats on a powerful DS Nexus.

Revan was a Jedi during their fight, and was hindered.

Tondemonai
Are we assuming this is Vitiate after fighting Revan? As in he won't make the same TP mistake? If so, Vitiate. If he bothers trying to TP, Revan.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Jmanghan
SoR Revan is 100% Comparable to Novel Vitiate, who did all his feats on a powerful DS Nexus.

Revan was a Jedi during their fight, and was hindered.

Revan was drawing on both the dark and the lightside in his fight with Vitiate. Have you even read the fight?

Azronger
Vitiate gets sliced in half.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Revan was drawing on both the dark and the lightside in his fight with Vitiate. Have you even read the fight? Yes, I read the fight, but I thought it had more to do with alignment, then what powers they used.

At best you could argue Revan was normal then, because he was highly hindered, and highly amped.

He was also drugged, but, IIRC, it had been a day or two since he was broken out, so the effects might have worn off by the time he fought Vitiate.

UCanShootMyNova
It had definitely worn off given Bane's ability to purge drugs and poisons from his system came from Revan's personal holocron. And no, it's not about ideology but which sides of the Force you're using and Revan was using both.

SoR should be weaker given his spirit has been split in two.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
It had definitely worn off given Bane's ability to purge drugs and poisons from his system came from Revan's personal holocron. And no, it's not about ideology but which sides of the Force you're using and Revan was using both.

SoR should be weaker given his spirit has been split in two. SoR Revan has the best feats tho.

And this is with both halves.

UCanShootMyNova
He doesn't though. Hurling back a being confirmed to be superior to Nihilus with a concentrated force push is better then what he did to the strike team.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
He doesn't though. Hurling back a being confirmed to be superior to Nihilus with a concentrated force push is better then what he did to the strike team. Revan isn't able to call upon that ability at will.

If he could, Vitiate would have lost.

UCanShootMyNova
Proof?

And why would Citiate have lost to a guy who was only capable of blasting him back with his most powerful attack?

Just because your able to affect someone with your attacks doesn't mean you're capable of winning against them.

Jmanghan
And regardless, Vitiate was still heavily amped by the Nexus.

Geistalt
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Revan isn't able to call upon that ability at will.

If he could, Vitiate would have lost. tru

Jmanghan
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Proof? No proof, but the fact that he didn't repeatedly spam that attack should mean either Revan is retarded during combat situations (which he isn't), or that he wasn't able to use it at will.

I think Ant has a quote saying that Revan wasn't able to use it more then once, but I'm not sure.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Jmanghan
And regardless, Vitiate was still heavily amped by the Nexus.

We don't know to what extent he was amped. I imagine Vitiate's own personal power made any amp he recieved negligible to his overall capabilities.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Proof?

And why would Citiate have lost to a guy who was only capable of blasting him back with his most powerful attack?

Just because your able to affect someone with your attacks doesn't mean you're capable of winning against them. Because that attack was > Vitiate, he wasn't able to defend against it.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
We don't know to what extent he was amped. I imagine Vitiate's own personal power made any amp he recieved negligible to his overall capabilities. Dromund Kaas is a very potent force nexus.

Abilities don't change the extent to which someone is amped, no matter how powerful they are.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Jmanghan
No proof, but the fact that he didn't repeatedly spam that attack should mean either Revan is retarded during combat situations (which he isn't), or that he wasn't able to use it at will.

I think Ant has a quote saying that Revan wasn't able to use it more then once, but I'm not sure.

I'm sure using a move which took active focus and extended concentration to employ drained him of energy and would not have been something he would have used a second time as it would have left him open to an attack by a now wary Vitiate. It doesn't mean he's incapable of doing it.

If it exists fair enough.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Dromund Kaas is a very potent force nexus.

Abilities don't change the extent to which someone is amped, no matter how powerful they are.

Yes.

Quote? Because I've always assumed it's not proportional ( multiplier ) but a straight out bonus ( addition ).

Jmanghan
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Yes.

Quote? Because I've always assumed it's not proportional ( multiplier ) but a straight out bonus ( addition ).

Its a bonus, but the bonus gets bigger depending on how potent the nexus is.

Depending how powerful the nexus is, you could recieve the same amount of power you'd get from a multiplier just from the bonus in power alone.

UCanShootMyNova
Quote?

Jmanghan
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Quote? Why should I need a quote for something thats common sense and common knowledge?

Do you think the potency of a nexus doesn't matter?

Or do you think that every single nexus in the mythos offers negligible power at best???

UCanShootMyNova
Why is it common sense/common knowledge? Because nobody's ever challenged the idea before?

I think the potency of a nexus does matter but I don't think it multiplies the power of the individual. Rather I think it adds about the same bonus to every Force user.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Why is it common sense/common knowledge? Because nobody's ever challenged the idea before?

I think the potency of a nexus does matter but I don't think it multiplies the power of the individual. Rather I think it adds about the same bonus to every Force user. Yeah, the same bonus.

But what I'm saying is, the amp doesn't change from person to person.

Ok, for example, lets say Scourge is getting amped twice as much.

That would mean Vitiate is also getting amped twice as much.

Btw, the whole point you're arguing, ironically, is pointless, because you can't prove that its just a bonus rather then a multiplier, nor can I prove that it IS a multiplier.

Beniboybling
Good thread, Revan wins.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Good thread, Revan wins. xD

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Yeah, the same bonus.

But what I'm saying is, the amp doesn't change from person to person.

Ok, for example, lets say Scourge is getting amped twice as much.

That would mean Vitiate is also getting amped twice as much.

Btw, the whole point you're arguing, ironically, is pointless, because you can't prove that its just a bonus rather then a multiplier, nor can I prove that it IS a multiplier.

That's what I said. I don't think the bonus is multiplicative. I think it's a straight add on. Like 1+1, 2+1, 3+1, etc.

Not 1x2, 2x2, 3x2, etc.

It's not pointless because I'm establishing that your claim is backed up by nothing more then your opinion. I never attempted to put an estimation to how much Vitiate was being amped but you did.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
That's what I said. I don't think the bonus is multiplicative. I think it's a straight add on. Like 1+1, 2+1, 3+1, etc.

Not 1x2, 2x2, 3x2, etc.

It's not pointless because I'm establishing that your claim is backed up by nothing more then your opinion. I never attempted to put an estimation to how much Vitiate was being amped but you did. I never actually put an estimation, all I said was "heavily amped".

Yeah, I know, but how much do the ones equal as far as nexuses go, because we've seen people get a massive boost from nexuses.

And your claim is back by nothing more then yours.

UCanShootMyNova
And that's fine because I'm not out to prove how amped Vitiate was. You are and I'm telling you I don't agree. You can't really say anything to that except "Ok." Since we both don't have evidence to support our stances.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
And that's fine because I'm not out to prove how amped Vitiate was. You are and I'm telling you I don't agree. You can't really say anything to that except "Ok." Since we both don't have evidence to support our stances. Ok, stalemate then?

UCanShootMyNova
*Shrug*

I mean, the point was for you to prove your stance and since you can't do that I'm not going to be changing mine. But if you want to call it that.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
*Shrug*

I mean, the point was for you to prove your stance and since you can't do that I'm not going to be changing mine. But if you want to call it that. Nor can you prove yours. erm

UCanShootMyNova
But I wasn't attempting to. You don't need to prove a negative.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
But I wasn't attempting to. I never made the point that it was a multiplier though, all I was arguing was that Vitiate was amped.

You also can't prove that the amp he received he recieved was negligible, so what is the point to this argument? :/

UCanShootMyNova
You said he was "heavily amped." This would only be true if it was multiplicative rather then a direct add on which we've seen doesn't put Scourge beyond Meetra and thus if it's an add on can not amp him substantially given he's infinitely more powerful then Scourge and Meetra and such an addition to his own power would be negligible.

I don't have to prove whether it's negligible or not because it was you who was making the claim that it was substantial.

slayne
bumperino

I could see Revan winning, tbh.

UCanShootMyNova
Nah. SoR Revan's just a Revan Reborn that has had his soul split in two and been drained for hundreds of years by Vitiate and the Dread Lords.

slayne
With both halves united, I mean. Like we saw him at the very end of SoR, though in his own body of course.

UCanShootMyNova
Still just a Reborn Revan that's been drained for hundreds of years.

ares834
Revan.

Azronger
Revan wins

Deronn_solo
SoR Revan is a weaker version of the Revan that got his ass kicked in the novel - pray tell, how and why this bout will be any different from the last, where he failed to harm or even get close to Vitiate?

And pls, no nexus arguments. At least 2-3 sources state Revan calls on both the light and the dark side of the Force, so he was hardly hindered to any worthwhile extent, nor did the text make any allusion to it, during the fight.

Selenial
I mean, there's several avenues for an argument even if I didn't want to make them. For one, there's a lot of evidence that LS HOT faced a fairly strong Vitiate, Neph argued it frequently. If Revan is significantly above the SOR HOT (which he is, tbh), then he could arguably take a more powerful Vitiate sans Dromund Kaas nexus.

Personally? I find SOR Revan and Revan reborn fairly similar in power levels. Thing is, even though Vitiate had time to prepare for the attempt on his life (i.e. Time to gather his power) and was on an extraordinarily potent Nexus, Revan still made it to Vitiate. The fight from there on is much more in Revan's favour, given his massive advantage in the sabers department. This matchup is without the nexus, prep, and gap that Vitiate had in the novel, all factors that favoured him. Take them out, I'd say Revan has a decent shot at closing the gap and cutting Vitiate down.

The whole incorporeal horse shit is another matter, but nobody worth their salt as a debater should ever consider it anyway.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Vitiate beats Revan yet again.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Vitiate beats Revan yet again.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
SoR Revan is a weaker version of the Revan that got his ass kicked in the novel - pray tell, how and why this bout will be any different from the last, where he failed to harm or even get close to Vitiate?

And pls, no nexus arguments. At least 2-3 sources state Revan calls on both the light and the dark side of the Force, so he was hardly hindered to any worthwhile extent, nor did the text make any allusion to it, during the fight. Nexuses hinder light side and boost dark side, which means only half of him was boosted, so I guess you could say he just at his average power.

SoR Revan stated he was more powerful multiple times and his performance in combat supports that.

There is no reason to think that Revan Reborn, who was drugged heavily, while Vitiate was prepared and ready for his attack, while also having ALL his power boosted instead of just half of it.

Haschwalth
Revan, he has the skillset to deal with Novel Vitiate(teleportation, Barriers) Pretty sure he would of learnt all he could in countering Vitiate(while imprisoned for 300 years, just it was unfortunate for Revan that Vitiate grew as well.

Haschwalth
Also, I don't think Vitiate draining Revan matters, as he was described as a cyst growing ever larger, meaning he regained his strength. Possibly when he was affecting the very tapestry of the force in the Jedi and sith. It is possibly he was affecting their connections to the force or draining them, on a galactic level, its doubtful though.

thesithmaster
Probably Revan.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Jmanghan
There is no reason to think that Revan Reborn, who was drugged heavily

We've been over this. Revan is confirmed to have purged the drugs from his system in the novel.

DarthAnt66
No it wasn't?

Rockydonovang
Post the quote. Regardless, while novel revan one-shottable fodder to vitiate, he did almost kill him. If the fight goes the same way revan should win as of air even if he's below vitiate

UCanShootMyNova

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Post the quote. Regardless, while novel revan one-shottable fodder to vitiate, he did almost kill him. If the fight goes the same way revan should win as of air even if he's below vitiate

And why is that?

Selenial
You do know what the word 'still' means, right? mmm

TenebrousWay
Sindy, your text basically concludes there were still drugs on his system...

DarthAnt66
laughing

Yeah, as I said, there's no indication on when the drugs were out. Given he was consistently drugged for three years, probably a decent amount of time.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Selenial
You do know what the word 'still' means, right? mmm

And you're aware that there was a large gap in time between when Scourge, Meetra and Revan escaped the citadel and confronted Vitiate, right? A gap in time longer then the few minutes it would take for the serum to take effect.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Sindy, your text basically concludes there were still drugs on his system...

It concludes that it would take a few minutes for the serum to take effect. The gap in time between when Revan, Scourge and Meetra escaped the citadel and when they faced Vitiate is far longer then a few minutes.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
laughing

Yeah, as I said, there's no indication on when the drugs were out. Given he was consistently drugged for three years, probably a decent amount of time.

A few minutes per Scourge. Even if there was still any effects remaining after the injection, Revan had plenty of time to focus his energies and purge the drugs from his system with the Force if needed per PoD and his own admission.

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
It concludes that it would take a few minutes for the serum to take effect. The gap in time between when Revan, Scourge and Meetra escaped the citadel and when they faced Vitiate is far longer then a few minutes.

This is pure conjecture. There were enough drugs on his system that even someone as powerful as Revan couldn't even distinguish his own perception of reality clearly.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by TenebrousWay
This is pure conjecture.

No, it's what Scourge and the text ( in the case of how long they waited before attacking Vitiate ) states.

Also, the line of text you quoted directly states that it's his "euphoria" he wasn't sure of, not his perception of reality.

UCanShootMyNova
I'm not understanding the oppositions arguments here. You guys don't really think Revan would have spent his time; meditating, talking to Scourge about the Force and looking at pictures of Bastilla and his kid over purging Force suppressing drugs from his system, if they were still effecting him, when he's about to face a being he believes to be far more powerful then himself, do you?

I mean, I know we make fun of each other a lot. But I don't really think you guys are stupid. If you really believed that though, you'd leave me no choice but to come to that conclusion.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
And why is that?
Coz Revan's more powerful and hence faster as of sor

Selenial
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
No, it's what Scourge and the text ( in the case of how long they waited before attacking Vitiate ) states.

Scourge says it should take a few minutes to help, not take a few minutes to completely nullify the effects of years worth of drugging.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Selenial
Scourge says it should take a few minutes to help, not take a few minutes to completely nullify the effects of years worth of drugging.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Even if there was still any effects remaining after the injection, Revan had plenty of time to focus his energies and purge the drugs from his system with the Force if needed per PoD and his own admission.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
You guys don't really think Revan would have spent his time; meditating, talking to Scourge about the Force and looking at pictures of Bastilla and his kid over purging Force suppressing drugs from his system, if they were still effecting him, when he's about to face a being he believes to be far more powerful then himself, do you?

I mean, I know we make fun of each other a lot. But I don't really think you guys are stupid. If you really believed that though, you'd leave me no choice but to come to that conclusion.

UCanShootMyNova
Unless you're suggesting he couldn't gather the focus to do so despite having been able to reflect Nyriss's lightning before they escaped the citadel in which case...

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I mean, I know we make fun of each other a lot. But I don't really think you guys are stupid. If you really believed that though, you'd leave me no choice but to come to that conclusion.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Coz Revan's more powerful and hence faster as of sor

And why is he more powerful when Vitiate's been draining him of Force energy for hundreds of years?

Rockydonovang
I'm gonna let ant take that

UCanShootMyNova
:/

Emperordmb
Vitiate wins.

Let's not such the ghost of Revan's dick too hard, he was a terrorist and now he's dead.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
And why is he more powerful when Vitiate's been draining him of Force energy for hundreds of years?
Because Revan was draining Meetra to counter Vitiate's draining.

Granted, once Revan was released, he noted he was weaker than Act II Hero between all that's happened to him, but it's clear he recovered his strength by Shadow of Revan, especially since it's stated that Revan was a presence growing ever stronger in the Force and was disrupting the galactic balance of the Force by simply existing, an incredible feat.

UCanShootMyNova
Provide evidence that Meetra's support was equivalent to the energy Vitiate and the Dread Lords drained from Revan and maybe I'll be more amenable.

Causing disturbances in the Force and people having felt his growth in power are Savage Opress level feats.

Geistalt
tfw you realize how underrated Act II Hero of Tython is.
Stronger than Foundry Revan.

UCanShootMyNova
>tfw when you realize how much time you've devoted to debating middle schoolers

Deronn_solo
Damn, besides a few disagreeable points, Syn is....slaughtering?

Never thought I'd hear those two words in the same sentence, seeing is believing, I guess.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Provide evidence that Meetra's support was equivalent to the energy Vitiate and the Dread Lords drained from Revan and maybe I'll be more amenable.

I'm completely not following. Drain isn't permanent. It's not removing Revan's midichlorians. Thus, why does drain have anything to do with SoR Revan's powers?

Regardless, here: "As the Emperor fed off him, Meetra was allowing Revan to feed off her. Her sustenance strengthened his resolve whenever he grew weak, refreshing and restoring him so he could continue his never-ending mental war."



Actually, there's a significant distinction between the feats. When I mean significant, I mean there's no comparison that can even be drawn between the two.

Revan's "growth" wasn't just someone with connections to Savage feeling a threat rising. Revan's growth was affecting the galactic "tapestry" of the Force itself, forcing the Force to "roil and convulse" like Sith scholars have never seen on record. Lana Beniko thought that the Force was being affected to such an extent that she mused she may be going mad. This demonstrates the level of power that SoR Revan is capable of - without him even doing anything besides simply existing in the galaxy.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Geistalt
tfw you realize how underrated Act II Hero of Tython is.
Stronger than Foundry Revan.
I doubt it. Foundry Revan was still the most powerful Jedi in the history of the Order up to that point.

NewGuy01
Act II Hero is exactly strong enough to get destroyed along with three similarly strong Jedi by Vitiate with a casual hand wave. He's closer to Meetra Surik than Revan, honestly. laughing out loud

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Provide evidence that Meetra's support was equivalent to the energy Vitiate and the Dread Lords drained from Revan and maybe I'll be more amenable.

Causing disturbances in the Force and people having felt his growth in power are Savage Opress level feats.
If force ghosts can give energy to force users, what's up with a plethora of force ghosts not using this ability elsewhere?

Rockydonovang
Anyway force ghosts physically changing the universe is thematically stupid

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'm completely not following. Drain isn't permanent. It's not removing Revan's midichlorians. Thus, why does drain have anything to do with SoR Revan's powers?

Because it's going to take him a long time to completely replenish his Force energies after being drained by Vitiate and the Dread Lords. Also, such a statement from you is a little hypocritical given you implied Revan being drugged over a long period of time would somehow hinder his recovery rate.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Given he was consistently drugged for three years, probably a decent amount of time.

If that's the case I don't know why you wouldn't believe the same would apply to Revan being drained.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Regardless, here: "As the Emperor fed off him, Meetra was allowing Revan to feed off her. Her sustenance strengthened his resolve whenever he grew weak, refreshing and restoring him so he could continue his never-ending mental war."



Actually, there's a significant distinction between the feats. When I mean significant, I mean there's no comparison that can even be drawn between the two.

Revan's "growth" wasn't just someone with connections to Savage feeling a threat rising. Revan's growth was affecting the galactic "tapestry" of the Force itself, forcing the Force to "roil and convulse" like Sith scholars have never seen on record. Lana Beniko thought that the Force was being affected to such an extent that she mused she may be going mad. This demonstrates the level of power that SoR Revan is capable of - without him even doing anything besides simply existing in the galaxy.


Also, taking a page from your book, Meetra "strengthening" Revan doesn't mean she counteracted Vitiate and the DL's drain completely. In fact, the quote implies that it only allowed Revan to subsist and keep from breaking mentally.

Sorry, but just because a lot of fancy words were used to describe Revan's "disturbance in the Force" doesn't change the fact that that's what it was. I find it funny ( and a little sad ) that the conclusion you drew from Lana's quote was that she was going mad simply from Revan's existence rather then what she was clearly referencing, the fact that because she was among the few to sense this disturbance she thought she was mad because she had nobody to confirm that this disturbance was real and not a figment of her imagination.

Rockydonovang
Syn destroying, but yes, in order to cause a disturbance in the force others can sense, you'd prolly have to affect it's tapestry. thumb up

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Act II Hero is exactly strong enough to get destroyed along with three similarly strong Jedi by Vitiate with a casual hand wave. He's closer to Meetra Surik than Revan, honestly. laughing out loud
Based on what were the Jedi similarly strong? And IIRC vitiate spent a sustained of time blasting them with a force storm

DarthAnt66
As someone who never played SWTOR, I again question why you're debating it when your debates are rooted in ignorance.

The gap of time between Revan's release from prison and Shadow of Revan is six years.

Further, almost all of that time was exclusively spent by Revan essentially alone by himself, presumably doing nothing but building the Revanites up and becoming stronger in the Force.



For whatever reason, it seems you think Revan got out of prison, died on the Foundry, then immediately rebounded in Shadow of Revan.



I never stated Revan counteracted the drain. Instead, I said the opposite when Revan remarked that he got out of prison and only had the power of the Act II Hero of Tython. However, my point was that he did defend against the majority of the drain, and just presumably days after he was released, he was already at enough power to be considered the most powerful Jedi in the history of the Order, and then, again, he had six years of further growth and replenishment without any outside interference that would be affecting him in any way.



Take the destruction of Alderaan. That was a "disturbance in the Force." That did not fundamentally change the tapestry of the Force. Even if we, without reason, say it did, we can conclude that it only did for a brief moment - Revan's presence maintained this perversion of the Force until he was killed.



Interesting. Typically, when I debate something I'm not familiar with, I at least get some context behind quotes. The context behind Lana Beniko remarking "If I'm wrong, it means my instincts are now deeply flawed" was not referring to Revan's disturbance, but rather something different. Lana then mentioned Revan's disturbance as a possibility for why she might be wrong in this situation.

Full quote: "I hope this correspondence finds you well. As promised, I have been looking to substantiate the claims I made when last we spoke. The suspect did recently show an unexpected interest in the transport of a shipment of isotope-5 originating from Makeb, but no actions were taken to reroute or tamper with the delivery in any way, and it arrived safely at its destination on Darth Marr's flagship. The whole matter seems to be nothing more than an idle curiosity regarding the maneuverings of others. I want to assure you that this furtive pursuit grants me no satisfaction. If I'm right about my claims, I've lost a close ally. If I'm wrong, it means my instincts are now deeply flawed. Considering the strange disturbance I sense that continues to pervade the Force, I worry that these concerns are merely the figments of a deranged mind. All that stands clear to me now is that I must find the answer, no matter the consequence. Forgive me if this message comes off as overly candid or ponderous; I have no one else with whom I can share this burden. May the Force ever serve you, Lana."

Your explanation is so out-of-context I can't even fathom how you would bring it up, let alone how you thought it would face the scrutiny of someone who actually played the game. Further, this was not something Lana felt alone. There were numerous reports of Jedi and Sith, ranging from rather weak ones to powerful ones, feeling this disturbance.

---

I must say, the users thinking you're doing even decent in this discussion must have never played the game, or just assumed you knew what you were talking about, since you've been outright wrong on almost every assumption you've made in this debate thus far, and I only imagine it's going to get worse.

slayne
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
And IIRC vitiate spent a sustained of time blasting them with a force storm
He wasn't even trying with the FLS, lol. The actual 'fight' ended as soon as he wanted it to.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by slayne
He wasn't even trying with the FLS, lol. The actual 'fight' ended as soon as he wanted it to.
Doesn't matter, the heroes expended energy dealing with the storm and there's no proof revan would have done as well or better

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Your explanation is so out-of-context I can't even fathom how you would bring it up, let alone how you thought it would face the scrutiny of someone who actually played the game. Further, this was not something Lana felt alone. There were numerous reports of Jedi and Sith, ranging from rather weak ones to powerful ones, feeling this disturbance.

Lmao. MY explanation is out of context when the quote directly states that she believes it's a possibility that her instincts have become "deeply flawed" and then goes on to state in the next sentence that the disturbances she's sensing may be the figments of a deranged mind, yet your assumption that it's these disturbances that are causing her to go mad are completely reasonable? Right.

I'll address the rest of this when I get back but I couldn't help but respond to the most laughable part of your post after a brief skim.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Lmao. MY explanation is out of context when the quote directly states that she believes it's a possibility that her instincts have become "deeply flawed" and then goes on to state in the next sentence that the disturbances she's sensing may be the figments of a deranged mind, yet your assumption that it's these disturbances that are causing her to go mad are completely reasonable? Right.

Oh, seems you completely misread what I was saying. I never stated Revan's disturbance in the Force made her go mad. It seems you completely misread me again - pathetic. I did, however, state it was affecting her to the point that she believed it could be affecting her mind, which is absolutely true. Let's revisit the quote:

"If I'm wrong, it means my instincts are now deeply flawed."

Self-explanatory. Beniko concludes that if someone isn't betraying her, something is fundamentally wrong with her due to having these suspicions. The question now is: why would something be fundamentally wrong with her?

"Considering the strange disturbance I sense that continues to pervade the Force, I worry that these concerns are merely the figments of a deranged mind."

Here's what you're not understanding. She's not questioning if the disturbance in the Force exists, she knows it exists. She actively mentions the disturbance in the Force throughout numerous conversations and believes in it with absolute certainty. Rather, she is saying that this disturbance may be the cause of what is wrong with her, since it may be affecting her instincts.

You, however, thought she was putting into question if the disturbance existed in the first placed, then suggested that she feared that because no one else sensed it, which, to me, is just beyond crazy since it's almost as if you read a completely unrelated quote.

Regardless, in conclusion, Beniko fears there is a traitor. She then says if she's wrong, something must be wrong with her instincts. She concludes that the disturbance in the Force may be the reason why her instincts are flawed. Thus, I was right to claim Lana believed that Revan's disturbance in the Force is making her mad, or, as she put it, having a deranged mind.

UCanShootMyNova
I disagree with your interpretation. I believe the "concerns" she's referencing are regarding the disturbance itself. Feel free to make a poll about it though if you want ( that's what you're good at ).

Again though, I have to go so I'll address the rest of your post later.

DarthAnt66
Yeah, and you're wrong. Lana consistently references the disturbances throughout numerous flashpoints. It's not something that she wonders exists or not - she knows it exists. Sith scholars are even actively talking about it and wondering what to do about it. After Arkous and Darok were killed, Lana was stunned, since the disturbance she sensed was still there. Then Revan arrived, and Lana recognized Revan as the source of the disturbance.

The entire point of this email was regarding a potential traitor - not Revan's disturbance. You're assuming she randomly mentions Revan's disturbance without linking it at all to the main idea of the conversation. Clearly there is a connection - the connection being being that the concerns being the potential traitor.

DarthAnt66
To translate, again:

"I hope this correspondence finds you well. As promised, I have been looking to substantiate the claims I made when last we spoke. The suspect did recently show an unexpected interest in the transport of a shipment of isotope-5 originating from Makeb, but no actions were taken to reroute or tamper with the delivery in any way, and it arrived safely at its destination on Darth Marr's flagship. The whole matter seems to be nothing more than an idle curiosity regarding the maneuverings of others. I want to assure you that this furtive pursuit grants me no satisfaction. If I'm right about my claims, I've lost a close ally. If I'm wrong, it means my instincts are now deeply flawed. Considering the strange disturbance I sense that continues to pervade the Force, I worry that these concerns are merely the figments of a deranged mind. All that stands clear to me now is that I must find the answer, no matter the consequence."

---

So, the topic is about a "suspect" who seems to be threatening the shipment of Isotope-5 shipping. Lana Beniko believes there is a threat there, yet nothing happened. Nonetheless, she believes she is correct in her belief that, even though nothing was stolen, there is a threat lurking there. That is the main idea of the topic and is a continuation of a previous email discussing her concerns over this suspect. Now, Lana Beniko says that, if she's wrong about this, meaning if there is no one trying to damage the Empire, something must be wrong with her instincts. She concludes, then, that considering the disturbance in the Force she feels, her concerns, meaning the suspect since that is the main idea of the passage, may be just the figments of a deranged mind, meaning that it may be affecting her. Finally, she ends by saying she has to figure out if there trying is a traitor and/or spy within the Empire, since that is ultimately the main idea of these two emails and is what is bothering her, further demonstrating that these are her core concerns.

DarthAnt66
To further clarify, Beniko isn't putting doubt in the disturbance. She knows there is a disturbance. Other Sith have even emailed the protagonist also voicing her concerns.

"I know I've mentioned before a strange disturbance within the Force--a sort of writhing mass tied to Darth Arkous. I thought I'd use my connection to Arkous to seek out others tied to the disturbance--Revanites working against us from within. I found a few."

As you can see, Beniko doesn't fear that this disturbance is fake. She not only knows it's real, but is actively investigating it and yielding results.

Earlier, she states: "There's something in the Force that I've never felt before. It exists nowhere and everywhere at once."

Notice that she doesn't state there may be something. She states that there is something. She doesn't state it possibly exists, she states it exists. Etc.

UCanShootMyNova
While I'm sure you worked really hard to color code that, the only relevant part of your last 3 posts was this.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Sith scholars are even actively talking about it and wondering what to do about it.

Going to need the quote for that and proof that it occurred prior to Lana's message.

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