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* TK and Shields only
* bloodlusted

Not sure. Plagueis SHOULD have this but he might have allowed some of his other combative abilities to atrophy in favor of midichlorian manipulation. Though given Luceno's commentary on how a fight between Sidious and Plagueis would probably be a toss up that doesn't seem to be the case.

All in all probably Plagueis.

Ziggy Opener -

Disintegrating part of a frigate - even while it's on the brink of destruction itself - is rather vastly superior to disintegrating maladians. The circumstances are moot.

?

There are no hard to grasp concepts here

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Not sure. Plagueis SHOULD have this but he might have allowed some of his other combative abilities to atrophy in favor of midichlorian manipulation. Though given Luceno's commentary on how a fight between Sidious and Plagueis would probably be a toss up that doesn't seem to be the case.

All in all probably Plagueis.
Agree.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
he might have allowed some of his other combative abilities to atrophy in favor of midichlorian manipulation.

Where the **** do you get these cancer inducing ideas from you dickwipe?

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
There are no hard to grasp concepts here

I couldn't tell if you were being serious or purposely sardonic tbh.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Where the **** do you get these cancer inducing ideas from you dickwipe?

I take into account the fact that Plagueis was obsessed with this area of the Force to the point he didn't even bother sparring with his apprentice and logically apply this information which allows me to come to the conclusion that it's possible he may have neglected other areas of the Force as well in favor of studying and practicing the manipulation of midichlorians.

I then take into account external sources like author statements which indicate that even if the above deduction is the case it would not hamper him in a significant way. This makes sense to me as expressions of energy and telekinesis are based more off raw power rather then Force mastery?

Anything else friend?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I couldn't tell if you were being serious or purposely sardonic tbh.

Let's put it this way.

You would need around 4000 tons of explosive energy to do what Starkiller did.
For Plagueis, that number would be around 20.

Both their best feats are at best around Act 2 protags from TOR tbh. Still, I guess Starkiller. Plagueis is more powerful and masterful with the Force overall, but not with TK.

Ziggy. I love the fact that you appreciate the importance of feats.

But we do have to look at scaling as well.

Plagueis was likely capable of matching Sidious going by author statements ( considering there are no contradicting sources I take this as valid ).

TPM Sidious is not far off from his RotS incarnation imo given the fact that he would not have been able to train, expand his knowledge or otherwise increase his power very much as Chancellor of the Republic. We know his RotS incarnation outmatched a being who was capable of manipulating CIS transports. Further establishing his power we have Sidious musing on being able to destroy the Imperial Palace not long after. The IP being an enormous superstructure capable of docking ISD's. I believe Sidious's musings to be accurate given he is more powerful then Yoda to an unknown degree and would have grown in power after RotS.

Now, granted Starkiller's feat is a better example of destructive expression in that momentary surge of power if we do the calcs. But I personally believe that a prolonged use of power such as Yoda's manipulation of CIS transports and Sidious's ability to dismantle the Imperial Palace is equivalent or at the very least approaching Starkiller's feat.

Well of course 'Killer would win if we play the strict "feats only" game. But to get a accurate measure of Hego's power, one must look at it through power-scaling, reasonable inference, holistic potrayals, and other shit like that

If we're comparing feats, the victor is obvious. Plagueis should be more powerful based on his standing in the big picture.

Also, Galen sucks.

Ehh, Galen for now.

Tbh. Galens raw power may trump Plagueis' mastery.

But again, I can be swayed lol

Galen isn't trumping Plagueis in anything, lmfao.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Well of course 'Killer would win if we play the strict "feats only" game. But to get a accurate measure of Hego's power, one must look at it through power-scaling, reasonable inference, holistic potrayals, and other shit like that Everyone who debates needs to look at this for inspiration.

But good luck trying to convince people who are feat-only to care about accolades and other shit.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Galen isn't trumping Plagueis in anything, lmfao. Except for obvious tk.

Plageuis

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Except for obvious tk.

Feat-for-feat, perhaps. But with regard to holistic intent, I'd think it's obvious that Plagueis is considerably more powerful than ANH Vader-tier characters.

Well, this is a tk only battle and while plagueis is probably more powerful than anh characters, that doesn't indicate that he would he able to match starkiller in a tk only battle.

Well, the fact that Plagueis has never exhibited TK feats of that stature doesn't mean that he'd lose, particularly because he never even exhibits telekinesis at full strength in the latter half of the novel. He's obviously a master of telekinesis and much more powerful than Starkiller in general. Everything clicks in place for me.

Plagueis wins if Marek fights for his life.

Marek wins if Marek fights for Juno's life.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, the fact that Plagueis has never exhibited TK feats of that stature doesn't mean that he'd lose, particularly because he never even exhibits telekinesis at full strength in the latter half of the novel. He's obviously a master of telekinesis and much more powerful than Starkiller in general. Everything clicks in place for me.

Tbh though I don't think the gap between Vader and Plagueis is all that large personally.

Though I do agree it's logical Plagueis should beat Starkiller via scaling though not by too large a margin given the stances I hold.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Tbh though I don't think the gap between Vader and Plagueis is all that large personally.

I think their raw power in the Force is on even playing fields, tbh. Plagueis mastery, knowledge, and sheer versatility in the Force is a bit above Vader, however.

I see Vader as an (very) high 8, just under the likes of Kun, and Plagueis as low-mid 9. That being said, I think the Gap to ANH Vader and Starkiller is larger.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
I think their raw power in the Force is on even playing fields, tbh. Plagueis mastery, knowledge, and sheer versatility in the Force is a bit above Vader, however.

Yeah, pretty much agree on all fronts there.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I see Vader as an (very) high 8, just under the likes of Kun, and Plagueis as low-mid 9. That being said, I think the Gap to ANH Vader and Starkiller is larger.

That's where I disagree tbh. At least as a Force user I hold SK's raw powers as slightly better.