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I've ranked Malak quite a bit higher recently, so I'm thinking this should be a good match, and one that he can win. Just curious to see what you guys think, and if your opinions have changed at all.

1. Sabers

2. Force

3. All-out

a. Standard Malak

b. SF Malak

Hmmm...

Malgus impressed me morte with Sabers, beating Ven-Zallow is imo a bit better than Malaks feats. Malgus 5-7/10.
With SF Amp though, I am willing to give Malak 10/10, If I remember his fight with Revan correctly.

Not sure about Force. I was leaning towards Malgus, but Malaks feats are pretty impressive. Still Malgus 5-6/10. SF Malak 10/10, again.

Malgus maybe for an small majority. SF Malak wins 10/10, imo.

I'm predicting that Malgus will get the majority vote here, so I'll defend Malak.

@Ursumeles - Really not convinced that Malgus' Force feats are better. As for sabers, Malak's superiority to the likes of Traya might put him above Malgus, too.

Can't remember. The discussion's happened in a lot of different threads, too, between various other users. But other than potentially being worth putting in a respect thread, that sort of stuff clearly isn't useful.

Inconsistent game mechanics. If you have four people, he can Choke three and chases the last guy, but if you bring in three, he can suddenly only Choke two. If you come as a pair, he only Chokes one at once.

It's also pretty ridiculous to assume that he can hold their bodies up in the air helplessly like that, but doesn't have the brain to plunge his saber into their helpless bodies.



Well, she's herself, so if she's not within range of herself, that's something special.

Lol, I meant Zallow/Malgus xD
I Give Malak a small majority in force now.

Originally posted by SunRazer


Well, she's herself, so if she's not within range of herself, that's something special.

So nothing then

Traya>Traya confirmed

Malak will obvs get lowballed the **** out of here... Malgus takes sabers, Malak takes force and leaning toward big Gus for a majority

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Malak takes force

LOOOOOOOOOL.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Lol, I meant Zallow/Malgus xD
I Give Malak a small majority in force now.

I think Traya's better than Zallow as a duelist. She's bested Atton Rand in a "short, quick, brutal duel", whilst Zallow has blitzed several of the strongest Warriors in the Empire.

Yes, Zallow's feat was accomplished with greater ease, but despite their accolades, the warriors are still, in a sense, fodder. Atton, on the other hand, defeated Sion under very negative circumstances, and decades prior to this, Sion was cutting down "experts in lightsaber and Force combat" left-and-right on the battlefields of the Exar Kun War.

Given how close Malgus and Zallow are, I'd wager that Malak's superiority to Traya as a warrior likely put him above Malgus as well.

Malgus would rather handily butcher Atton and Sion, and Zallow still scales above Satele, Kao, Vindican, and others and pre-prime Satele was capable of fighting Dark Council tier Sith and Kao fighting renowned Sith Inquisitors. Traya has done nothing with a blade even putting her on par with someone Palpatine considered one of his most powerful predecessors. The reaching is beyond retarded

Aryn is better than Zallow anyway

Malak in all, then. I also put the Exile more than a bit higher then.

Originally posted by carthage
Malgus would rather handily butcher Atton and Sion

I was comparing Zallow to Traya. Not sure why you're dragging Malgus into a confrontation with Atton or Sion. And if Traya could handily defeat Atton or Sion, then of course Malgus could do the same. And so could Malak. Your point?



Zallow being vaguely better than them doesn't equate to being above Traya.

Also, since when did Satele fight DC'ers before her duels with Malgus? Mekhis was after Hope. Baras was during Deceived, and he had over a decade to go before he became a DC member.



Since when does being one of the most powerful equate to being one of the most skilled in of itself?

I also compared Traya to Zallow, not Malgus. Didn't want to trigger a backlash reaction like this, but I guess it's happened anyway. Malak's also one of Sidious' most powerful predecessors. You're really not presenting anything substantial here.



Aryn was virtually even with Malgus in the dueling segments of their fight. Malak's clear superiority to Traya would be a much more distinguishable difference.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Based on?p

Based on Malgus being considered among the best of the Sith Empire well before even Hope, based on Malgus having beaten Kao, similarly killing scores of Jedi prior to Deceived, and beating Satele multiple times (Satele having fought even with the Galaxies most powerful future Dark Council tier Sith), and being considered Palpatine's most powerful Predecessor and having his feats being never replicated on the Battlefield. Sion killing Fodder Jedi doesn't even place him above Hope Malgus, let alone Malgus at his absolute best towards the End of Deceived who had faced the most skilled Jedi in the Order (Satele, Kao, and Zallow and beaten them). He would have no difficulty beating someone whose literally only famous for dying





Traya has **** all lightsaber feats to begin with. The burden is on you to show how beating someone like Rand, who has no accolades or skill feats comparable to Malgus places her within his tier of skill.





What does that change exactly? Either of them have greater potential than Sion anyway, and would later become greater than Sion or Rand in accomplishments. Satele called Malgus the most powerful Sith she had ever faced in latter recollections, he's greater than them to begin with anyway






I've already listed accolades that place Malgus far above Sion in terms of lightsaber skil[. Not sure what Rand has done that makes beating Sion outside of Malgus's abilities when he was already close to him even as of Hope. Again unless you have something better for Traya than beating someone Malgus would slaughter try again.




Aryn landing multiple blows on Malgus and even piercing his armor places her above Zallow, given she was actually able to land piercing blows with a saber throw and even a kick. Zallow could hardly break Malgus's guard and only landed a strike to his face. She gave a much better fight to Malgus in comparison with Satele (2X), Zallow, Kao Cen Darach, in comparison with Traya whose only claim to fame is beating Sion who doesn't even register to Malgus at his peak. So I'd say her scaling off of scores of Malgus's opponents is more reliable than claiming Malak is better than Traya in saber skill, when she's done hardly anything with a blade to begin with

Originally posted by carthage
Based on Malgus being considered among the best of the Sith Empire well before even Hope, based on Malgus having beaten Kao, similarly killing scores of Jedi prior to Deceived, and beating Satele multiple times (Satele having fought even with the Galaxies most powerful Dark Council tier Sith), and being considered Palpatine's most powerful Predecessor and having his feats being never replicated on the Battlefield. Sion killing Fodder Jedi doesn't even place him above Hope Malgus, let alone Malgus at his absolute best towards the End of Deceived who had faced the most skilled Jedi in the Order (Satele, Kao, and Zallow and beaten them). He would have no difficulty beating someone whose literally only famous for dying

Nah, what you said just hit me. Malgus would indeed handily beat either Atton or Sion. Not Traya, though, since, well, she's done the same.



Rand has no feats? He's beaten Sion whilst drowned in the dark side, and 40 years prior to KotOR II, Sion's butchered "experts in lightsaber and Force combat" left-and-right. He goes on to study at the Academies on Korriban and Malachor V.

Traya beating him with ease is beyond anything Zallow has to offer, lol.



Who cares about potential? We're taking the versions that they actually appeared as.

Mekhis isn't above Sion, and if we're running on feats and accolades, Baras has nothing around Deceived that's beyond Sion in terms of skill, either. Certainly not beyond Atton.



Given that Traya also slaughtered Atton, I'm not seeing what this huge disparity between Malgus and Traya is based on.



Based on your generalizations and misinformation, you're hardly even aware of Traya's feats, so you making these claims is pretty funny to begin with. Traya hasn't beaten Sion, she's stomped Atton, who defeated Sion under very negative circumstances.

My point is that Traya > Zallow, who Malgus struggled with. Put Traya on par with Aryn, I don't care. I'm not even saying she's better than Malgus, but she's close enough that Malak, her decisive superior as a warrior, should be above Malgus, or at least equal. That's my point. You hardly even addressed it. You're going on tangents about how Malgus can also butcher Atton and Sion (great, that makes him approximately equal to Traya, so Malak's still better).

Originally posted by SunRazer
Given how close Malgus and Zallow are,

15 years from Malgus' prime, with a huge boost in power between.

Malak has nothing to threaten Malgus with except an assumed superiority to Traya in sabers. Maybe Malak is just worse than a one-handed grandma is. Regardless, I'm pretty sure we don't know much about the Atton fight where she could have simply taken him by surprise or used the force.

Malgus beats the pants off him in feats, has far superior feats and accolades of skill, has way more combat experience and is more powerful than him. I doubt Malak's sabers skills are sufficient to allow him to have lasted long against the TOR Strike Teams and everything they can throw at him.

Malak was better than Kreia during the Mandalorian Wars, and given that he was younger and had more of a penchant for actually fighting with his blade, there's no way that Kreia would've improved more than he did in the years to come.

The rest of the stuff - you know I disagree with that, so I'm not factoring it in. I'll respond to you in the other thread later.

You disagree that Malgus beat Zallow a decade and a half from his prime and before Malgus got the huge boost at the end of Deceived? Thus making a comparison between them as if that's Malgus' peak stupid?

Except to become stronger in the force. This was after she consumed the power of the 3 Jedi Masters. And how do you know that Malak was a better duelist than her? She could easily be more skilled than he was given her several decades over him. The fact of the matter is that Traya has better shit than him across the board.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Nah, what you said just hit me. Malgus would indeed handily beat either Atton or Sion. Not Traya, though.

He'd pretty handily beat her guard down given he's stronger, has beaten far more skilled individuals than Rand at his peak, and Zallow is per performance not even his best defeat. So yeah again still waiting for you to show any evidence that Traya would perform better than Zallow, or is in anyway comparable





Sion repeatedly died to no named Jedi over the course of his career, and per accolades Malgus was already roughly on par with him in accomplishments even prior to Deceived. As mentioned Zallow is only his most notable kill, he isn't skillfully better than Leneer.



Baras bested Angral and held off Satele and Darnala at once is better than Sion beating no name Jedi. He would obviously become more powerful but I find that to be a better feat than beating No namers. What evidence is there that Atton could replicate those feats





She is never listed as having beaten him in her respect thread wtf? It shows her deflecting his blows and that's it, even in the Atton Rand thread it states that the outcome is dependent. Again she has no depicted duels, and only knows various lightsaber forms. Didn't you even take her victory from non canon cut content?





She has practically zero depicted duels, so even considering she's even close to Zallow is tantamount to an special pleading on your part.



Zallow fought evenly to Malgus prior to him becoming more powerful in the force, and again Aryn performed better than him and fought off a Bloodlusted version that would mow through Traya. Your second statement is a special pleading asking me to scale her without feats she's demonstrated. Besides Malak's best skill feats are losing to Revan in spite of an amp, and beating Bastila. These alone wouldn't put him above Jinn let alone Zallow or Malgus

@Neph - You know what I disagree with you on.

Power boosts don't always equate to skill boosts. ANH Vader didn't get more skilled than Anakin, and Ben Kenobi didn't get more skilled than Obi-Wan Kenobi. I doubt many people think TCW Maul was more skilled than TPM Maul, either.

Alek and Revan were "foremost" among the Jedi warriors in the Mandalorian Wars, so yeah, he's a better duelist than Kreia as of that time. And continues to grow, almost certainly at a greater rate too.

Don't have time to make long posts. I'll respond later.

Why is being better than Traya during the Mando wars something to be proud of? What did she even do then?

He'd obviously be better than her for life, lol. It's not as if she had anything drastic to catch up to him. He was much younger and was much more of a duelist.

So what? So was Sion.

Malak being younger only suggests that he couldn't match her in lightsaber training, knowledge and experience.

Originally posted by SunRazer
@Neph - You know what I disagree with you on.

Power boosts don't always equate to skill boosts. ANH Vader didn't get more skilled than Anakin, and Ben Kenobi didn't get more skilled than Obi-Wan Kenobi. I doubt many people think TCW Maul was more skilled than TPM Maul, either.

Alek and Revan were "foremost" among the Jedi warriors in the Mandalorian Wars, so yeah, he's a better duelist than Kreia as of that time. And continues to grow, almost certainly at a greater rate too.

So you don't deny that Malgus was obviously way the **** better than Zallow in his prime.

Being more powerful would make you a better duelist since you'd be able to translate that into more speed, strength and other combat related abilities. It's not like Atton beat Sion by being a more skilled duelist than him anyway, unless Sion actually does suck ass that he'd lose in skill to a guy trained in sabers for a comparatively minuscule amount of time. On a nexus.

That doesn't mean he's better than her. Did she even fight in the Mandalorian Wars? The Kotor CG suggests she didn't. Kreia isn't the kind of fight in pitched battles.

Sion wasn't inherently better than Kreia, though. And yes, she fought in the Mandalorian Wars. Kavar, Brianna etc. all think that she died in it. Kreia also says Arren Kae joined the War, and we know who that is.

I'll give a more detailed response later.

"Some think that she too has followed Revan, but she traces her padawans footsteps in another way. Kreia is drawn to the force echoes at Malachor V. Within it's Trayas Academy, Kreia encounters assassins left by Revan."

Kavar directly states "I thought you died in the Mandalorian Wars". Kreia replies with "Die? No. Became stronger, yes." She admits being involved and becoming stronger as a result (probably her descent into the dark side).

And again, Kreia reveals that Arren Kae joined the Wars. Kreia is Arren Kae, so yeah, she participated.

Kavar thinks she followed Revan just like the quote says. But Traya actually found Malachor and got stronger from studying the dark side there.

The Kotor CG says otherwise.

Originally posted by Nephthys
"Some think that she too has followed Revan, but she traces her padawans footsteps in another way. Kreia is drawn to the force echoes at Malachor V. Within it's Trayas Academy, Kreia encounters assassins left by Revan." Lol Neph, all that happens after the Mandalorian Wars, obviously.

The full thing is:

"Kreia silently withdraws from the Jedi. Some think that she too has followed Revan, but she traces her padawans footsteps in another way. Kreia is drawn to the force echoes at Malachor V. Within it's Trayas Academy, Kreia encounters assassins left by Revan."

It's saying that she leaves the Jedi, with people thinking she followed Revan but she really went to Malachor instead. Meaning she didn't fight in the war.

I recall you specifically bashing that source. Now you're using it?

She doesn't go to Malachor until after the Mandalorian Wars.

That source doesn't contradict that fact either way, though.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The full thing is:

"Kreia silently withdraws from the Jedi. Some think that she too has followed Revan, but she traces her padawans footsteps in another way. Kreia is drawn to the force echoes at Malachor V. Within it's Trayas Academy, Kreia encounters assassins left by Revan."

It's saying that she leaves the Jedi, with people thinking she followed Revan but she really went to Malachor instead. Meaning she didn't fight in the war. But she couldn't have gone to Malachor until long after, so what was she doing in the interim, twiddling her thumbs?

Unless this is FE Malgus then I actually see Malak winning 1&3, and SF Malak might even beat FE Malgus.

Malgus in all.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So what? So was Sion.

Except Sion wasn't already better than Kreia during the Mandalorian Wars. Malak's already better than her, and wouldn't have scaled worse as he aged. Sion wasn't already better than her, so your comparison's invalid.



Experience, perhaps. Nothing more. And there's a point where experience becomes largely irrelevant - I'd say both Traya and Malak have passed that point.



He would've grown more powerful, but without substantial blade practice, I'm not seeing him getting much more skilled.



Which speaks to Atton's potential, as opposed to other people's deficiencies. And are we really going to talk about performances against people who "shouldn't be competing with them"? If so, then TOR's record of Jedi and Sith losing to non-Force sensitives is utterly appalling.



Kreia admits to having fought in the Mandalorian Wars, lol. Moreover, the reason she has so much disdain for war could well be her experience in the Mandalorian Wars in the first place.

Originally posted by carthage
He'd pretty handily beat her guard down given he's stronger, has beaten far more skilled individuals than Rand at his peak

Malgus isn't beating down the guard of someone who no-sells hits from enraged Wookiees. Malgus hasn't beaten anyone that's far more skilled than Atton.





If the "most prized" quote about Zallow is being disregarded here, he becomes less impressive, too.

If Traya's better than Zallow, then she'd be Aryn-level by this logic, as well. Malgus was also even with Aryn, rather than her better.

But as for what I have to bring forth for Traya, there's the fact that she pummeled Atton in a duel, but also the fact that she was Brianna's blows despite not even appearing to move - the kind of stompage that Sidious showed against the B-team or Yoda against Plo, Saesee and Depa.

Brianna stalemated Atris, who was canonically more skilled than Kavar even before studying teachings of combat and the Force from dozens of Sith holocrons. The fact that Kreia can B-team Brianna is honestly extremely impressive, perhaps moreso than anything Malgus has ever shown.



Given that there's no established upper-limit for these Jedi, that's nothing to put down Sion for. We know he's cut down numerous "no-name" Jedi even before he discovered his immortality.



Which accolades are you referring to? And given how huge the gap between Traya and Sion is, I couldn't care less if Malgus was Sion's equal. He'd have so much ground to cover to match Traya, then.



Baras never bested Angral with a blade, and Baras' short engagements with Satele and Dar'Nala are hardly out of Sion's paygrade. Baras should be Sion's better, but these showings don't reflect that.



Sel's thread states the Atton vs Sion one is player-dependent, but the Atton winning one is the "correct" one. Traya vs Atton always ends in Traya's win, lol. And yes, I do have her beating him in the thread.



And yet again we show a lack of knowledge on the characters being debated.



Everything here has already been debunked, lol. There's no proof that Malgus would mow through Traya, and if Malak was better than Kreia as of the Mandalorian Wars, then he'd continue to be better than her for life.