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This is one after another, Luke gets no breaks, as well as no revitalization on his end.

1. XoXaan
2. Freedon Nadd
3. Karness Muur
4. Ajunta Pall
5. Ludo Kressh
6. Naga Sadow
7. Tulak Hord
8. Marka Ragnos


How far does he get?

Luke just one shots them all with Saber throws.
Seriously though, he should clear.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Luke just one shots them all with Saber throws.
Seriously though, he should clear. I think he makes it up to Hord and gives him a good fight... but honestly, without breaks or revitalization, Luke is gonna be banged up and tired as shit by the time he gets THAT far.

Tulak is gonna press him, big time, and by that point, I feel like Ragnos will be too much for him.

Stomps all of them effortlessly. Don't make this a gauntlet, just put them all against Luke at once and it becomes somewhat more fair.

Originally posted by Azronger
Stomps all of them effortlessly. Don't make this a gauntlet, just put them all against Luke at once and it becomes somewhat more fair. All of them at once would stomp Abeloth, let-alone Luke.

Hell, Marka and Tulak, along with Sadow could end his career alone.

Clears, no issue.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
All of them at once would stomp Abeloth, let-alone Luke.
Full Power Abeloth? No, lol.

Anyway, Luke clears, if he is serious.

Honestly, he clears even easier if he's not going all out. The only potential problem here would be stamina drop, and if he's holding back he's conserving energy. None of these guys can really threaten him, so not much of an issue if he prolongs the fights by holding back.

I mean with serious, that he doesn't joke, and not fight on the Level of the Sith.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
I think he makes it up to Hord and gives him a good fight... but honestly, without breaks or revitalization, Luke is gonna be banged up and tired as shit by the time he gets THAT far.

Tulak is gonna press him, big time, and by that point, I feel like Ragnos will be too much for him.

Well I don't want to turn into the 'Ancient Wank Guy' and buy into the Ragnos, Hord hype so the safe option is a Luke victory.

1. Ajunta Pall
2. Ludo Kressh
3. Naga Sadow
4. Karness Muur
5. Freedon Nadd
6. Exar Kun
7. Ajunta Pall / Karness Muur
8. Exar Kun / Freedon Nadd / Naga Sadow

This would be a more debatable gauntlet.

^ I think he stops at 7, maybe 8 on his best day.

8, or clears tbh

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Hell, Marka and Tulak, along with Sadow could end his career alone.

What do any of those guys have that could even touch Luke? He butchers them in saber combat and ragdolls them with TK.

Originally posted by JKBart
1. Ajunta Pall
2. Ludo Kressh
3. Naga Sadow
4. Karness Muur
5. Freedon Nadd
6. Exar Kun
7. Ajunta Pall / Karness Muur
8. Exar Kun / Freedon Nadd / Naga Sadow

This would be a more debatable gauntlet.

Still clears with ease.

With ease? These guys obviously aren't on Luke's level, but facing them one after the other without breaks would surely leave him absolutely buggered if he cleared.

Lol@with ease. He clears but with difficulty. Adding them all together, they would stomp Luke. What a ridiculous assertion.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Well I don't want to turn into the 'Ancient Wank Guy' and buy into the Ragnos, Hord hype so the safe option is a Luke victory. Why not?

Originally posted by JKBart
1. Ajunta Pall
2. Ludo Kressh
3. Naga Sadow
4. Karness Muur
5. Freedon Nadd
6. Exar Kun
7. Ajunta Pall / Karness Muur
8. Exar Kun / Freedon Nadd / Naga Sadow

This would be a more debatable gauntlet.
Uh, Nadd is one of, if not the weakest Ancient Sith Lord, and thats with all his impressive feats AND accolades already in mind.

Originally posted by Azronger
What do any of those guys have that could even touch Luke? He butchers them in saber combat and ragdolls them with TK. Karness Muur is solidly above Vong Krayt, and is at least equal to 19BBY Vader, Ajunta Pall is above Karness Muur, Naga Sadow is above both of them, Tulak Hord is above Naga Sadow, and Marka Ragnos is the most powerful of the Ancients, unless you throw in Exar Kun.

Freedon Nadd has some pretty impressive feats on his own, but he got beaten pretty quickly by Kun IIRC.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Full Power Abeloth? No, lol.

Anyway, Luke clears, if he is serious. The Father in his prime would find all 8 people at the same time challenging.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Uh, Nadd is one of, if not the weakest Ancient Sith Lord, and thats with all his impressive feats AND accolades already in mind.
Not really. Ragnos doesn't have any feats apart from defeating Simus in combat. At least Nadd has some decent force feats as a Spirit.

Luke's Force defenses allow him to defend against anything anyone here can throw at him. His black hole level TK will crush anyone instantly, and his speed is too much for anyone to contend with him. We have seen even relative scrubs like Lord Hoth take on dozens of Force wielders at once. Numbers aren't gonna matter if everyone of the opponents is going to die in seconds.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
The Father in his prime would find all 8 people at the same time challenging.
Lol. The guy, who is stronger than Universe-Busters? I am not seeing it.
And imo is Nadd >Sadow, and potentially stronger are only Pall, Syn and Ragnos. Definietly Kun, tho.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Karness Muur is solidly above Vong Krayt, and is at least equal to 19BBY Vader, Ajunta Pall is above Karness Muur, Naga Sadow is above both of them, Tulak Hord is above Naga Sadow, and Marka Ragnos is the most powerful of the Ancients, unless you throw in Exar Kun.

Freedon Nadd has some pretty impressive feats on his own, but he got beaten pretty quickly by Kun IIRC.

Not only are those ranking wrong, they prove absolutely nothing. Feats please.

Nadd is actually one of the strongest sith lords. Sources do state that when her arrived on Yavin IV, he performed much better against the Massassi than Kun did, and they were pretty much at the same level at that point. His holocron took 10 years to study. The guy is a goddamn trove of sith knowledge. Also conquering a backwards planet singlehandedly is pretty cool.

Anyways, Luke ragdolls virtually nobody but he wins each fight.


The onus is on you to prove Luke ragdolls everybody.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Nadd has some pretty impressive feats on his own, but he got beaten pretty quickly by Kun IIRC.
You must look at context though. Nadd wasn't exactly expecting Kun to do this, plus he was in a weakened state and Kun used a powerful, fully charged Amulet blast to banish him.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Lol. The guy, who is stronger than Universe-Busters? I am not seeing it.
And imo is Nadd >Sadow, and potentially stronger are only Pall, Syn and Ragnos. Definietly Kun, tho.

Kun is confirmed to be the Most Powerful Sith of his Lineage, which includes Nadd so no.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Kun is confirmed to be the Most Powerful Sith of his Lineage, which includes Nadd so no.

What lineage?

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
What lineage?
Just look for the quote in ILS' Kun respect thread, I'm pretty sure it's in there.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Kun is confirmed to be the Most Powerful Sith of his Lineage, which includes Nadd so no.
I meant that Kun is definietly >Nadd.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I meant that Kun is definietly >Nadd.
My Mistake

Originally posted by Azronger
Not only are those ranking wrong, they prove absolutely nothing. Feats please. Screw feats.

They aren't wrong.

Muur has already beaten Krayt, and Vader thought Muur could replace Sidious as his master.

Ajunta Pall was stated to be better then Karness Muur, Naga Sadow is close to Tulak Hord's level, Tulak Hord nips at the heels of Ragnos, who was outright stated multiple times to be the greatest of the Ancients.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Lol. The guy, who is stronger than Universe-Busters? I am not seeing it.
And imo is Nadd >Sadow, and potentially stronger are only Pall, Syn and Ragnos. Definietly Kun, tho. Where does it say that The Father is a universe Buster?

It says if The Ones were to ever clash, the universe would cease to exist, nowhere is it said that The Father is a universe buster.

That would make Full-Potential Anakin a Universe Buster as well, then, wouldn't it?

Nobody here has defended against black hole level TK. Against other Force wielders, Luke has pinned Darth Caedus to a chair without even gesturing and held him there with no effort at all.

In dueling, he has outperformed the Reborn Emperor while dueling at speeds so great even Leia - who ran the length of ten miles while battling Imperials in a fraction of a second - couldn't see them.

I don't understand how anyone here is resisting his TK or reacting to his lightsaber moves.

Not Universe Buster then, but they could destroy the Universe.
An IIRC weakened Abeloth has destroyed the Sinkhole Station. She would smash the Ancients like bugs.

Great, a black hole TK is combat applicable how? Luke's showings are inconsistent because of his constant self doubt. He does well against Caedus, then has trouble against someone like Lumiya.


He was losing until he got Leia's help.


Because it assumes he can just brush off any attack (even the majority that are unknown to him), while attacking without effort. Both scenarios would be incorrect.

Originally posted by Azronger
Nobody here has defended against black hole level TK. Against other Force wielders, Luke has pinned Darth Caedus to a chair without even gesturing and held him there with no effort at all.

In dueling, he has outperformed the Reborn Emperor while dueling at speeds so great even Leia - who ran the length of ten miles while battling Imperials in a fraction of a second - couldn't see them.

I don't understand how anyone here is resisting his TK or reacting to his lightsaber moves. Pinning someone down can't kill them.

There's also the fact that Caedus wasn't trying to fight back, I'm not saying it would have done him any good, but Luke wouldn't have been able to do it as effortlessly as he did.

Originally posted by Azronger
In dueling, he has outperformed the Reborn Emperor while dueling at speeds so great even Leia - who ran the length of ten miles while battling Imperials in a fraction of a second - couldn't see them.

Leia has better feats, tbh, like piloting ships at lightspeed(thus demonstrating LS reflexes) before she knew what precog was.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Pinning someone down can't kill them.

There's also the fact that Caedus wasn't trying to fight back, I'm not saying it would have done him any good, but Luke wouldn't have been able to do it as effortlessly as he did.
He couldn't fight back.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
He couldn't fight back. He was already pinned, but if they both went at each other, trying to TK one another, Caedus would put up a short fight.

Originally posted by MythLord
Leia has better feats, tbh, like piloting ships at lightspeed(thus demonstrating LS reflexes) before she knew what precog was.

Didn't Anakin also do that? Doesn't seem as good as her DE feat.

Uh, mate, thats Ood Bnar.

Not Odan-Urr.

Yeah, and when he tried resisting, he failed. If he could fight back, he would've resisted.

Originally posted by MythLord
Yeah, and when he tried resisting, he failed. If he could fight back, he would've resisted. IIRC Correctly, he didn't try to use any form of TK or anything of The Force, he kinda just tries to stand up.

How's he expected to fight back when he can't use his hands?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Pinning someone down can't kill them.

You missed the point.



Incorrect:

"In the next instant, Caedus found himself flying across the cabin toward his observation bubble. Luke had not gestured, had not flinched, had not even shifted his gaze; he had simply grabbed Caedus in the Force and hurled him five meters into his chair.

"Don't lie." Luke started across the cabin. "I'm getting tired of it."

Caedus sprang out of the chair... or attempted to. Instead, he found himself struggling against an invisible weight. He felt as if he were accelerating to lightspeed with a faulty inertial compensator.

"Luke, you've gone mad." Caedus reached for the controls on the arm of his chair and discovered he couldn't even do that much. "You can't do this. I know you're having trouble dealing with Mara's death, but..."

"This has nothing to do with Mara," Luke said. "And you're lucky it doesn't. If she were here-if she had known what you were using Ben for-there'd be pieces of you scattered along the entire length of the Hydian Way."

The irony of the statement was far from lost on Caedus, but he was too astonished-and too frightened-to take any pleasure in it. While it was true that Luke had taken him by surprise, it was equally true that he had done so with no visible effort-and that he was continuing to hold him with no apparent exertion.

Keenly aware that all that stood between him and a quick death was Luke Skywalker's much-strained sense of decency, Caedus let a little of his very real fear seep into the Force, just enough to seem properly alarmed.



"Then I'll take it for what it's worth," Luke said. Leaving Caedus Force-pinned in his chair, he started toward the door. "I'll show myself out."

Caedus knew he would be freed as soon as Luke turned his concentration to something other than Force-pinning him-but that might take minutes, and Caedus needed to send in the Home Fleet now. Besides, he was the Chief of State of the Galactic Alliance, and he could not allow anyone, even Luke Skywalker, to humiliate him and simply leave. He had to assert some sort of authority."

-Legacy of the Force: Inferno

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Uh, mate, thats Ood Bnar.

Not Odan-Urr.

My bad.

Originally posted by Azronger
You missed the point.



Incorrect:

"In the next instant, Caedus found himself flying across the cabin toward his observation bubble. Luke had not gestured, had not flinched, had not even shifted his gaze; he had simply grabbed Caedus in the Force and hurled him five meters into his chair.

"Don't lie." Luke started across the cabin. "I'm getting tired of it."

Caedus sprang out of the chair... or attempted to. Instead, he found himself struggling against an invisible weight. He felt as if he were accelerating to lightspeed with a faulty inertial compensator.

"Luke, you've gone mad." Caedus reached for the controls on the arm of his chair and discovered he couldn't even do that much. "You can't do this. I know you're having trouble dealing with Mara's death, but..."

"This has nothing to do with Mara," Luke said. "And you're lucky it doesn't. If she were here-if she had known what you were using Ben for-there'd be pieces of you scattered along the entire length of the Hydian Way."

The irony of the statement was far from lost on Caedus, but he was too astonished-and too frightened-to take any pleasure in it. While it was true that Luke had taken him by surprise, it was equally true that he had done so with no visible effort-and that he was continuing to hold him with no apparent exertion.

Keenly aware that all that stood between him and a quick death was Luke Skywalker's much-strained sense of decency, Caedus let a little of his very real fear seep into the Force, just enough to seem properly alarmed.



"Then I'll take it for what it's worth," Luke said. Leaving Caedus Force-pinned in his chair, he started toward the door. "I'll show myself out."

Caedus knew he would be freed as soon as Luke turned his concentration to something other than Force-pinning him-but that might take minutes, and Caedus needed to send in the Home Fleet now. Besides, he was the Chief of State of the Galactic Alliance, and he could not allow anyone, even Luke Skywalker, to humiliate him and simply leave. He had to assert some sort of authority."

-Legacy of the Force: Inferno It says he aggressively tried to stand up from his chair.

And he couldnt. It's obvious Luke dominated him.

BTW, save for maybe Kun, no one in this Gauntlet is more powerful than Caedus. So yeah, Luke with ease.

Lol, he doesn't fvcking clear without rest. That being said, I'm not giving an answer, because no-rest gauntlets are stupid and impossible to predict.

Potentially 3 or 4, otherwise he clears.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
BTW, save for maybe Kun, no one in this Gauntlet is more powerful than Caedus. So yeah, Luke with ease. I'm 110% sure that Ragnos takes Caedus.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Lol, he doesn't fvcking clear without rest. That being said, I'm not giving an answer, because no-rest gauntlets are stupid and impossible to predict. Well who would you replace with Luke?

Originally posted by Azronger
And he couldnt. It's obvious Luke dominated him.

What bearing does that have on a contest of TK between Caedus and Luke?

None.

I like how people make these fan fics of Luke, and take his highest showings, while ignoring the norm. He absolutely isn't stomping through this gauntlet - that's absurd.

What is his standart norm, actually? Like against the hidden one, or worse?
and:
Originally posted by Ursumeles

Anyway, Luke clears, if he is serious.

Luke's showings vary from absolutely insane levels to surprisingly prolonged fights against people he should be stomping. I still find it terrifying he didn't solostomp Lumiya and Alema Rar on his own in LotF.

On the other hand, his fights against Abeloth, fight against Slayers in Shimmra's palace... dude can stomp his way through this gauntlet or can spend 20 hours before he finally cuts down somebody like Nadd lol.

By powerscaling, Ragnos is definitely above Vader.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Lol, he doesn't fvcking clear without rest. That being said, I'm not giving an answer, because no-rest gauntlets are stupid and impossible to predict.

Also, saying Luke has black hole Level TK is absolutely ****ing cancerous.

He's above people that are above people that are above Muur.

Muur is equal to, or more powerful then 19BBY Vader.

He's also more powerful then Vong Krayt.

All the people that are ahead of Muur in the gauntlet are more powerful then him.

Standard Luke is having trouble with dudes like Desann, Brakiss, Lumiya, and a bunch other guys he should one-shot. As JKbart pointed out though, Luke is capable of operating on levels where he can stomp just about anyone on this gauntlet, but it's far from the norm with him, tbh.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
He's above people that are above people that are above Muur.

Muur is equal to, or more powerful then 19BBY Vader.

He's also more powerful then Vong Krayt.

All the people that are ahead of Muur in the gauntlet are more powerful then him.
How are Kressh, Sadiw and Horde more powerful than Muur?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
How are Kressh, Sadiw and Horde more powerful than Muur? Uh, Hord was able to pull an Endar Spire-sized ship out of the sky, beat Khem Val, was the best Lightsaber Duelist of the Sith Lords, and single-handedly broke a siege during the Battle of Yn.

He also participated in a battle in which 1000 Jedi were called, while only having a small army.

Sadow was able to move Stars better then Aleema Keto could, as her powers with moving stars was unstable, while he did it easily.

Kressh is a DAMN near equal to Sadow in all aspects.

If TPM Sidious can fight for hours on end, then Luke - who possesses vastly greater Force reserves - sure as hell isn't tiring to people who are dead in seconds. He easily clears this gauntlet.

And I am indeed assuming Luke is at peak performance, no holding back PIS. I otherwise wouldn't have claimed he stomps these guys.

Originally posted by Azronger
If TPM Sidious can fight for hours on end, then Luke - who possesses vastly greater Force reserves - sure as hell isn't tiring to people who are dead in seconds. He easily clears this gauntlet.

And I am indeed assuming Luke is at peak performance, no holding back PIS. I otherwise wouldn't have claimed he stomps these guys. Ok, first of all, you're assuming that superior opponents can always stomp inferior opponents, that isnt the case.

Luke doesn't stomp Ragnos.

Hell, The Daughter doesn't stomp Ragnos.

You don't understand that each Ancient is a major powerhouse.

Luke doesn't stomp people like that in seconds.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Hell, The Daughter doesn't stomp Ragnos.



The Daughter stomps everyone in this gauntlet simultaneously.

Originally posted by MythLord


The Daughter stomps everyone in this gauntlet simultaneously.
While weakend. And while Luke is in Oneness.

Originally posted by MythLord


The Daughter stomps everyone in this gauntlet simultaneously. Well, I'm not necessarily supporting his claim, but in a thread awhile back, SKILLZ claimed that Ragnos wouldn't be stomped by The Daughter.

LOL. What were his reasons?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
LOL. What were his reasons? He could beat a lot of us in a debate.

He could definitely beat me, Myth, Syn, you (without a shadow of a doubt).

Dude is no slouch when it comes to debating.

At least in his heyday, he's more of a comic guy now.

Not good reasoning, but eh.

That he would beat me, isn't impressive.
Beating Myth is, while very impressive, not on ILS/Nova Level.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
LOL. What were his reasons?

Where are yours?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Ok, first of all, you're assuming that superior opponents can always stomp inferior opponents, that isnt the case.

Luke doesn't stomp Ragnos.

Hell, The Daughter doesn't stomp Ragnos.

You don't understand that each Ancient is a major powerhouse.

Luke doesn't stomp people like that in seconds.

So, all you managed to do is claim each ancient is "a major powerhouse," and that's the reason why they won't be stomped. I've already given feats for Luke. Please refute them.

And he's given you examples of Luke's inconsistent power levels. There's no need to refute them. Luke isn't having a cakewalk in most of these fights.

Originally posted by Azronger
So, all you managed to do is claim each ancient is "a major powerhouse," and that's the reason why they won't be stomped. I've already given feats for Luke. Please refute them. Luke is very inconsistent, Desann beat him, Lumiya gave him heaps of trouble.

And by powerscaling alone, these guys are on another level, one of the weakest Sith Lords is Muur, who is a definite superior to Vong Krayt, thats not arguable.

Thats pretty impressive.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Where are yours?
The Daughter beating Abeloth, which in a weakened State destroyed the Sinkhole Station, has an massive TK feat(destroying an hole city, with her thoughts, iirc) and was twelve-times more powerful than FotJ.
Yeah, the Daughter rapestomps, if she tries.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
The Daughter beating Abeloth, which in a weakened State destroyed the Sinkhole Station, has an massive TK feat(destroying an hole city, with her thoughts, iirc) and was twelve-times more powerful than FotJ.
Yeah, the Daughter rapestomps, if she tries. When the **** did The Daughter beat Abeloth?


The Son and The Daughter cowered in fear of her, and The Father was forced to step in.

I've read it.

I still say the 8 Ancients would win.

Agree to disagree?
I say, the Daughter would roflstomp them all together, you say she can't stomp Ragnos.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Agree to disagree?
I say, the Daughter would roflstomp them all together, you say she can't stomp Ragnos. Agree to Disagree, then.

Have you read up on the Ancients? And their respect threads?

The of the first ones and Kun, as well as Ragnos, and Nadds quite an time ago. I'll look at them, later.

Again, I am taking Luke at peak performance, how many times do I need to repeat that?

Jman, unless you prove how big the gap between each Sith Lord is, then your argument is moot. And provide a feat from any of these guys that is even somewhat compatable to anything I've posted here already.

Originally posted by Azronger
Again, I am taking Luke at peak performance, how many times do I need to repeat that?

Jman, unless you prove how big the gap between each Sith Lord is, then your argument is moot. And provide a feat from any of these guys that is even somewhat compatable to anything I've posted here already.
I so ****in agree.
I still wait fir the prove, that Sadow/Kressh are above Pall and Muur. Also for Hord>Pall/Muur as duelist.

Lumiya only ever performed well against GM Luke while Aleema was mentally attacking him, and Lumiya was forced to use innocent bystandards as hostages so Skywalker couldn't go all-out and/or attack her for fear of them getting injured.

GM Luke also never fought Desann; Luke a good few decades before his Grandmaster days did, and drove him back fairly quickly, and his goal was to capture him and he did have sentimental value towards his former apprentice.

But yeah, sure, let us use two outliars to paint the picture that Luke is inept. He stomps Kun, Ragnos, Hord or any character of such calibre unless ridiculous and convenient writting gets in the way

Not sure when they think something becomes an stomp. The Gap between Luke and Ragnos, or the freakin Daughter and Ragnos, should be (vastly) bigger than that between, lets say, Obi-Wan and Tyrannus. -.-

Jmango still makes me sick to my stomach.

Originally posted by MythLord
Jmango still makes me sick to my stomach. I'll concede to you, because if you and I argue, its gonna go on for days on end and thats annoying.

(And Wollf wins :up

Originally posted by Azronger
Again, I am taking Luke at peak performance, how many times do I need to repeat that?

Jman, unless you prove how big the gap between each Sith Lord is, then your argument is moot. And provide a feat from any of these guys that is even somewhat compatable to anything I've posted here already. Even if its slight, that still puts Ragnos on the level of Caedus or above him, due to every Sith Lord in between having a slight power boost, and there being 8 combatants, and the fact that Ragnos is above the likes of Pall, who is above Muur.

As well as above Freedon Nadd and Tulak Hord, who is already pulling giant Endar Spire-sized ships from the sky.

I can't make much of an argument for Sadow and Kressh.

All we know is that Naga Sadow is a smidge better then Kressh.

Kressh has destroyed a Giant Statue with a gesture though.

On top of the fact that Luke gets no break between battles, and that none of those battles are ending quickly.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
(And Wollf wins :up You haven't seen me and Myth's arguments, have you?

We had an argument that went on for pages upon pages saying the same shit continuously over and over till we both gave up and stopped.

You know nothing about KMC, or the people who post on it, so do me a favor and try to make some relevant arguments OF YOUR OWN before you try acting like the alpha male.

You really don't have to try hard against myth or azonger, lol. You've done enough

Originally posted by MythLord
Lumiya only ever performed well against GM Luke while Aleema was mentally attacking him, and Lumiya was forced to use innocent bystandards as hostages so Skywalker couldn't go all-out and/or attack her for fear of them getting injured.

GM Luke also never fought Desann; Luke a good few decades before his Grandmaster days did, and drove him back fairly quickly, and his goal was to capture him and he did have sentimental value towards his former apprentice.

But yeah, sure, let us use two outliars to paint the picture that Luke is inept. He stomps Kun, Ragnos, Hord or any character of such calibre unless ridiculous and convenient writting gets in the way Uh, no.

Desann and Luke fought evenly, then Desann TK'ed his ass and pulled the roof down on top of him, so I dunno what you're talking about.

Jedi Outcast was after DE.

Ah, so no counter to Lumiya? Wonderful.

It wasn't a stalemate, lel. It was a 20 second(our time, not theirs, which was probably like 2-3 seconds) duel where Desann flees, hence he is outmatched and defeated.

He simply got Luke's attention, distracted him, then escaped, and nothing more.

I also don't see why you mention that it is after DE, when DE is 10 ABY, which is still several decades before Luke becomes a Grandmaster.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Even if its slight, that still puts Ragnos on the level of Caedus or above him, due to every Sith Lord in between having a slight power boost, and there being 8 combatants, and the fact that Ragnos is above the likes of Pall, who is above Muur.

Ah, so Ragnos is Caedus-level? Luke kills him with a thought, then.



Still below Ragnos, who according to you is Caedus-level, who gets taken out by Luke just by thinking about it.



Then stop bringing them up.







Do you even read what I say, or is your memory that short? None of the people in this gauntlet have the speed feats to match Luke - or even Leia, for that matter, and even she couldn't see Luke move - and Luke's Force reserves are vastly superior to Plagueis and TPM Sidious, who could fight for hours on end without tiring.

Every single Sith here gets taken out in a fraction of a second, and Luke isn't tiring in a fight that lasts half a minute a best.

Bart has made an good case, for Hamner against Kressh, lol. http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=627697&pagenumber=2

Sure, since he was able to do that precisely at no time. His inconsistence allows him to hold Caedus with a thought, then fight to a stalemate with him. So if we're using your idiotic logic, Luke either kills Ragos with a thought, or loses an all out battle.

No.
1. He won. It wasn't a statlemate.
2. Luke was injured.
3. Caedus had an enviroment advantage.
4. He maybe was holding back.
5. But Azronger and I assume Peak Luke, which doesn't hold back.
6. I don't see how Ragnos is equaling Kun.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
No.
1. He won. It wasn't a statlemate.
2. Luke was injured.
3. Caedus had an enviroment advantage.
4. He maybe was holding back.
5. But Azronger and I assume Peak Luke, which doesn't hold back.
6. I don't see how Ragnos is equaling Kun.

That's dumb. Peak Luke DOES hold back. There is no version of Luke that doesn't. The fight between him and Caedus was pretty much a stalemate when it didn't need to be. Jman outlined Luke's inconsistencies. At this point you and Myth are just blowing smoke.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Sure, since he was able to do that precisely at no time. His inconsistence allows him to hold Caedus with a thought, then fight to a stalemate with him. So if we're using your idiotic logic, Luke either kills Ragos with a thought, or loses an all out battle.

Or maybe, he just didn't decide to use the Force very much in that confrontation? It's that simple, really.

And it's not my logic, but Jman's. And no, it wasn't a stalemate, lmfao. Luke pretty much humiliated Caedus.

And for the last time: I am taking Luke at peak performance. You can quit bringing up low showings, or at least attempt to justify why they should be taken as the standard.

He didn't hold back against Nyax, he didn't hold back in Shimrras Palace, against UnuThul, Taalon or Abeloth.
We three(Azronger and I said that, like, a dozen times. @Azronger it is okay if I say it, like we were an team, or?) peak performance Luke.
Nah, he made good points, but Myth debunked all of them.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
That's dumb. Peak Luke DOES hold back. There is no version of Luke that doesn't. The fight between him and Caedus was pretty much a stalemate when it didn't need to be. Jman outlined Luke's inconsistencies. At this point you and Myth are just blowing smoke.

Do you know the definition of "peak"? Apparently not.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/peak

When Luke's at his peak, he isn't holding back. If he is, then he's not at his peak. We are using Luke at his peak. Simple logic.

Originally posted by Azronger
Ah, so Ragnos is Caedus-level? Luke kills him with a thought, then.



Still below Ragnos, who according to you is Caedus-level, who gets taken out by Luke just by thinking about it.



Then stop bringing them up.







Do you even read what I say, or is your memory that short? None of the people in this gauntlet have the speed feats to match Luke - or even Leia, for that matter, and even she couldn't see Luke move - and Luke's Force reserves are vastly superior to Plagueis and TPM Sidious, who could fight for hours on end without tiring.

Every single Sith here gets taken out in a fraction of a second, and Luke isn't tiring in a fight that lasts half a minute a best. Being the most powerful mortal Force Wielder doesn't mean he can just kill whoever in a thought, I don't know where you got that from, or why you're thinking it.

But then again, you think Hord's Endar Spire feat is insignificant so like...

Idk man, maybe debate on a different topic, because you have no idea how monumental of a feat that is.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Being the most powerful mortal Force Wielder doesn't mean he can just kill whoever in a thought, I don't know where you got that from, or why you're thinking it.

But then again, you think Hord's Endar Spire feat is insignificant so like...

Idk man, maybe debate on a different topic, because you have no idea how monumental of a feat that is.
Not anyone- but the likes of Ragnos? Sure.

Originally posted by Azronger
Do you know the definition of "peak"? Apparently not.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/peak

When Luke's at his peak, he isn't holding back. If he is, then he's not at his peak. We are using Luke at his peak. Simple logic.

Yes, I know the definition of peak. Peak Luke is at the peak of his powers, not any given moment he decides not to hold back. Since peak Luke's character involves holding back more often than not, you can't really use your version of Luke in a debate now can you? Let me know if that got way too confusing for you.

@Urs

If you want to call us a team, feel free to do so.

Originally posted by Azronger
Again, I am taking Luke at peak performance, how many times do I need to repeat that?
Like he said, Peak performance. Like against UnuThul, or Abeloth. Or do you want to say, he hold back against them?

Originally posted by Azronger
Or maybe, he just didn't decide to use the Force very much in that confrontation? It's that simple, really.

And it's not my logic, but Jman's. And no, it wasn't a stalemate, lmfao. Luke pretty much humiliated Caedus.

And for the last time: I am taking Luke at peak performance. You can quit bringing up low showings, or at least attempt to justify why they should be taken as the standard. Even at Luke goimg Peak the entire time, the team does have fights that put them high.

Already mentioned Tulak Hord's feats, too many times, FARRRR too many times.

Naga Sadow has moved stars and created Supernovas to a greater extent then Aleema Keto, as well as being the one who technically trained Freedon Nadd.

Kressh is below him by a smidge, nearly his equal, and has his Gauntlet.

Marka Ragnos is the strongest and most powerful Ancient Sith, barring Kun.

Muur was Vong Krayt's clear superior, Muur didn't even find Krayt interesting to fight with.

Pall is confirmed to be above Muur.

I don't even have to speak for Nadd.

I didn't wanna include Kun because I THOUGHT it'd be overkill.

Nadd: Impressive, still Sub-Vader
Pall: Same as abovr
Ragnos: Same as above, with an smaller gap
Hord: Sub-Vader
Muur: Sub-Vader
Sadow: Sub-Dooku
Kressh: Sub-Hamner.

Still waiting for the quote, that says Kressh/Sadow>Pall

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Nadd: Impressive, still Sub-Vader
Pall: Same as abovr
Ragnos: Same as above, with an smaller gap
Hord: Sub-Vader
Muur: Sub-Vader
Sadow: Sub-Dooku
Kressh: Sub-Hamner.

Still waiting for the quote, that says Kressh/Sadow>Pall

I never said there was a quote.

K then.
Kun>Ragnos>Nadd>Pall>=Muur>Sadow>Kressh then.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Lol, he doesn't fvcking clear without rest. That being said, I'm not giving an answer, because no-rest gauntlets are stupid and impossible to predict.

How does he not clear? Anyone below Vader-tier is essentially fodder for him; he can just cheat around the no-rest rule by pinning one of them down and then taking a break in the meanwhile. And everyone here is sub-Vader.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
How does he not clear? Anyone below Vader-tier is essentially fodder for him; he can just cheat around the no-rest rule by pinning one of them down and then taking a break in the meanwhile. And everyone here is sub-Vader. They all come out one after another immediately, Luke gets no rest.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
They all come out one after another immediately, Luke gets no rest.

Everyone here is essentially superior to Vader, but Luke still clears. He doesn't "pin" anybody because he doesn't turn that on anytime he wants.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Everyone here is essentially superior to Vader,

http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110706212225/fallout/images/2/2f/Blank-face.gif

https://zoegraves.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/o-rly__ruserious.jpg

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Everyone here is sub-Vader.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
And everyone here is sub-Vader.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Yes, I know the definition of peak. Peak Luke is at the peak of his powers, not any given moment he decides not to hold back. Since peak Luke's character involves holding back more often than not, you can't really use your version of Luke in a debate now can you? Let me know if that got way too confusing for you.

Well, maybe "my version" of Luke isn't how he is most of the time, but if he did go all-out (not necessarily bloodlusted, just all-out), then he'd snap everyone's necks or slice 'em up in an instant.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Everyone here is essentially superior to Vader

XoXaan?

I could see XoXaan>Sadow, tbh. Which is Sub-Dooku

But that's your version of Luke. This isn't a fight with your version of Luke because your version doesn't really exist.


No, I was mocking such a ridiculous statement by saying the complete opposite. There are people on that list like Sadow/Kressh/Xoxaan that I wouldn't necessary put aboveor even equal to Vader, although they very well could be. The rest I absolutely would.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I could see XoXaan>Sadow, tbh. Which is Sub-Dooku Uh, Sadow was moving Stars with TK.

After, what, one week prep?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
After, what, one week prep? One week???

LOL

More like "within a few minutes". But he had a meditation chamber and all that.

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-4410684
That feat? If so, still Sub-Dooku, imo.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
But that's your version of Luke. This isn't a fight with your version of Luke because your version doesn't really exist

So, what you're telling me is that in the dozens of stories that Luke is featured, he never once went all-out?



Agreed.

No...Where would you even get that? Luke, more than any other character in the mythos, is plagued by his inconsistent showings. There's no way to deviate from that because that is who he is. He's still the most powerful non entity force user in the mythos but he's not ragdolling everybody for the very specific reason I've outlined.

He did get all out against UnuThul and many others :/

Originally posted by Ursumeles
He did get all out against UnuThul and many others :/

Yea but he had difficulty with the likes of Lumiya.

And? He should know that Ragnos would be an serious threath, if he don't goes all-out, or at leat near that.. He also stomped Lumiya in their last fight, IIRC.

Glad that you agree, that he was going all-out against UnuThul.
Sorry if I was harsh to you, I had a medicroe day.

You're missing the point completely.

Originally posted by Azronger
You're missing the point completely.
Who?

Beefy

Yeah. I want to make an "why our Luke "wank" is reasonable"-Blog on CV, lol.

Sadow moving stars was through the use of the dark side crystals on his ship which everyone credits it having the power to destroy stars and not Sadow. Luke clears but with difficulty.

F***ing AIDs thread.

Originally posted by Azronger
Beefy

No no, I'm getting the point completely. As usual, you aren't.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Sadow moving stars was through the use of the dark side crystals on his ship which everyone credits it having the power to destroy stars and not Sadow. Luke clears but with difficulty.

When Sadow obliterated the star of Primus Goluud, it's stated that he "activated a superweapon" to destroy it.

Yet when he annihilated the fleets with the solar flares from the Denarii Nova, it's stated that he uses "Sith powers" to cause those flares. Though I'm pretty sure he cites the "powers of the Sith" when he uses the Corsair crystals during the Primus Goluud feat.

Just for the sake of interest, here's the quote in question:

Originally posted by SunRazer
Just for the sake of interest, here's the quote in question:
It was never in doubt that Sadow used his ship's sith technology to activate solar flares. If you want to argue what he did more by himself, it was illusions on a galactic scale.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
It was never in doubt that Sadow used his ship's sith technology to activate solar flares. If you want to argue what he did more by himself, it was illusions on a galactic scale.

I seem to recall a quote saying that he himself enchanted the crystals, which would make it possibly the best Alchemy showing in the mythos.

The Illusions and stuff were done in the Meditation Sphere, which Sorzus Syn claims "enhances one's powers a thousandfold". But it's still incredibly impressive.

Very impressive but the arguments from the OT crowd about him needing "help" has some merit to it.