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This is Goku during the beginning of Z. He gets to brace for each. Which one will do more damage...

An all out punch from Raditz who is powered up to his max.
Roshi moon busting attack.

Z characters have very low physical resistance compared to energy, whch is why Superman stomps Goku all the time.

Roshi's blast I think will do more. Earth fighters boost their power whenever they attack while aliens like raditz seem to be in a state of constant flex.

When you think about it though..Roshi's moonbuster worked via destroying the core of the moon, right? His ki wave wasn't actually wide enough to encompass the entire moon. So I think Goku could take a direct hit better than he could a punch from Raditz, because the punch will be a lot of force focused into one small space.

Originally posted by cdtm
Z characters have very low physical resistance compared to energy, whch is why Superman stomps Goku all the time.

Just stop.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Roshi's blast I think will do more. Earth fighters boost their power whenever they attack while aliens like raditz seem to be in a state of constant flex.

This is why I said Raditz is putting all of his power into this hit.

Originally posted by Surtur
When you think about it though..Roshi's moonbuster worked via destroying the core of the moon, right? His ki wave wasn't actually wide enough to encompass the entire moon. So I think Goku could take a direct hit better than he could a punch from Raditz, because the punch will be a lot of force focused into one small space.

Nothing was stated or shown as the core having anything to do with the moon exploding into atoms.

Originally posted by carver9
Nothing was stated or shown as the core having anything to do with the moon exploding into atoms.

So then what did it? Did the energy beam just explode?

Originally posted by carver9
Just stop.

Proven by Krillin staggering Nappa with a punch where suicide energy attacks did nothing, or Gohan and Piccolo stunning him witb physical blitz's, bur doing nothing with their best energy attacks.

DBZ characters have insanely low physical resistance compared to energy resist.

Originally posted by carver9
This is why I said Raditz is putting all of his power into this hit.

That's the problem though. Since raditz is a alien we know his max attack, rather physical or energy, is around 1000 power level units but roshi is up in the air.

Originally posted by cdtm
Proven by Krillin staggering Nappa with a punch where suicide energy attacks did nothing, or Gohan and Piccolo stunning him witb physical blitz's, bur doing nothing with their best energy attacks.

DBZ characters have insanely low physical resistance compared to energy resist.

Or Piccolo beam shooting through Raditz or Vegeta blast disintegrating Nappa, or Vegeta blast ripping Cell body apart or Frieza shooting a hole completely through Vegeta when his fist did not do this. Or Vegeta blast doing more damage to Recoome then any of his other attacks. Or Gohan turning Buu into chunks.

If energy attacks were as ineffective as you are "trying" to make it, none of these things would've happened.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
That's the problem though. Since raditz is a alien we know his max attack, rather physical or energy, is around 1000 power level units but roshi is up in the air.

Don't think being an alien or a human have anything to do with this let alone makes a difference in DBZ.

No but earthlings hiding their power levels is a main plot point that's brought up several times

Originally posted by carver9
Or Piccolo beam shooting through Raditz or Vegeta blast disintegrating Nappa, or Vegeta blast ripping Cell body apart or Frieza shooting a hole completely through Vegeta when his fist did not do this. Or Vegeta blast doing more damage to Recoome then any of his other attacks. Or Gohan turning Buu into chunks.

If energy attacks were as ineffective as you are "trying" to make it, none of these things would've happened.

Cell was playing with Vegeta.

But you're right, their energy resistance is weak sauce compared to Marvel/DC heavy hitter's, too.

Basically I think my overall point is..these people aren't punching with moon busting or planet busting power.

For example, Raditz can't destroy a planet in a few punches like Gladiator has.

Originally posted by Surtur
Basically I think my overall point is..these people aren't punching with moon busting or planet busting power.

For example, Raditz can't destroy a planet in a few punches like Gladiator has.

And... you're absolutely right!

Gammatoriyamafanboy thinks a final flash hurting Cell proves they don't have greater energy resist, but all that proves is their energy output is likewise much greater then their physical.

As you say, nobody is blowing up planets with a punch. (And the Beerus/Goku universal wave is both a one off, and not even a solo feat as Beerus had as much to do with that, if not more. Plus nothing was actually destroyed..)

The bottom line, there's far more examples of higher level characters being affected by physical attacks from lower tier, then there are of them being affected by energy attacks. The kienzan being a prominant example, as it's basically solidified ki and can cut anyone up to SSJ level (And beyond, since Cell shrugging it off is non canon.) (Or there's the more recent SSJ Hot Pink defeating Vegeta and Goku with a ki sword, which is obviously a solid object. Oe better yet, Trunks piercing Samasa was a regular sword, though it didn't kill him.)

Beerus and Champa blow up planets with punches and kicks.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Beerus and Champa blow up planets with punches and kicks. So a universe buster can only punch apart a planet?

Guess that proves the point entirely.

I'm simply responding to his statement that, "nobody is blowing up planets with a punch," lol.

Okay I guess I should make this known: I find the newer DBZ stuff to be horrible nonsense. All my comments are in regards to characters from DB and DBZ. Not this DB Super where you got Super Saiyan Roses and Vegeta Blues and probably Vegeta Sherbert or something.

So in that context..my "they aren't destroying planets physically" thing holds up. Especially when discussing someone like Raditz.

I'm not trying to insult anyone who likes the newer stuff, I'm just saying when I talk about it I'm usually not considering that. It's a habit that needs breaking I suppose, sort of like when I think of DC characters I think of post crisis versions first as opposed to Nu 52 versions.

To be fair, that "Super Saiyan Rose shit" is the best arc in Dragon Ball Super.

As I said in the other thread, the only way you can justify having better "energy resistance" in DBZ is by assuming energy attacks in DBZ work on another method barring brute force. This also isn't just applied to DBZ either, plenty of fictional universes work with that. Raditz punch owns btw. Heck another example to prove physical and energy attacks go hand in hand are scouters themselves. If split stats were a thing scouters would rank them differently but they rank them the same.

Originally posted by The Merchant
As I said in the other thread, the only way you can justify having better "energy resistance" in DBZ is by assuming energy attacks in DBZ work on another method barring brute force. This also isn't just applied to DBZ either, plenty of fictional universes work with that. Raditz punch owns btw. Heck another example to prove physical and energy attacks go hand in hand are scouters themselves. If split stats were a thing scouters would rank them differently but they rank them the same.

But it's already proven powerlevel doesn't = higher stats across the board equally. The likes of Oozaru Vegeta and his speed levels <<<< Goku at the same pl prove as much, or a SSJ Trunks.

And besides, resistances in comics and manga are pretty consistant in their inconsistancy. Otherwise, a slugfest between two characters who can swim in sun and black holes would be boring as shit, as neither would be able to hurt the other. (Superman certainly doesn't doesn't cause more damage then the force of a black hole..)

The fact remains, the Z fighters strength and brute force simply doesn't compare to their energy projection. Yet somehow both deal damage. And, physical attacks like a sword or kienzan are far more consistanty damaging.

Originally posted by The Merchant
As I said in the other thread, the only way you can justify having better "energy resistance" in DBZ is by assuming energy attacks in DBZ work on another method barring brute force. This also isn't just applied to DBZ either, plenty of fictional universes work with that. Raditz punch owns btw. Heck another example to prove physical and energy attacks go hand in hand are scouters themselves. If split stats were a thing scouters would rank them differently but they rank them the same.

It's not unreasonable to assume that due to their manipulation of ki they'd be more resistant to energy based attacks. It's why they can physically beat on each other and do damage.

I also think you're putting too much faith into scouters and things of that nature.

Plus even if you don't want to say they are more resistant to energy attacks..that doesn't change the fact energy attacks are usually spread out and not focused all on one point like a physical attack is.

Originally posted by Surtur
It's not unreasonable to assume that due to their manipulation of ki they'd be more resistant to energy based attacks.

I also think you're putting too much faith into scouters and things of that nature.

Didn't even Toriyama admit that power levels are bullshit?

If he didn't, I bet he would.

There is a reason they stopped using the power levels. It got ridiculous after 1 million. He should of kept it down to scale more if he wanted to use them, but they got carried away.

Especially since they gave the farmer a power level of 5. Which actually when you look at the power level of master roshi who can destroy a moon..a power level of five actually gives you at least the power of a nuke.

That's why I like Mob: Psycho 100%, it just has him go "???" for some incalculably higher power level and calls it a day.

So far Seven Deadly Sin's has used the pl thing sparingly, and left things like Escanor pretty vague. Hopefully they don't fall into the same trap Z did.

Well to be fair, Raditz could likely punch Roshi's blast away.

Easily. He's what, 8x stronger than Roshi was when he appeared?

So I guess everyone's forgetting that Radditz casually tanked a moon busting blast from Piccolo, without getting a scratch.

Unless you're saying Radditz punch >>>>>>> Roshi blast, you're an idiot. Also consider yourself to be in that group if you're suggesting that Superman can beat someone who can universe bust with punches.

Originally posted by Surtur
It's not unreasonable to assume that due to their manipulation of ki they'd be more resistant to energy based attacks. It's why they can physically beat on each other and do damage.

I also think you're putting too much faith into scouters and things of that nature.

Plus even if you don't want to say they are more resistant to energy attacks..that doesn't change the fact energy attacks are usually spread out and not focused all on one point like a physical attack is.

If this is true, why even use energy attacks? Why not just make the entire fight physical?

Obviously a punch from Raditz.