Arcann vs. FOTJ Jaina Solo

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carthage
force sabers all out

Duel takes place on neutral ground

SunRazer
Arcann's more powerful. I'd give Jaina the win in sabers due to her unorthodoxy, though.

Who wins all-out? Depends on whether Arcann gets a chance to abuse his powers.

Nephthys
Arcann

MythLord
Jaina.

chingchangwalla
Jaina

DarthDuelist9
Jaina takes it.

S_W_LeGenD
Arcann

Ursumeles
Jaina
Arcann, probably
Jaina

S_W_LeGenD
Jaina Solo has nothing on Arcann.

Ursumeles
She is better in Sabers, and at least comparable in the Force

Nephthys
She really isn't comparable in the Force, and I disagree about sabers pretty strongly.

Ursumeles
What are Arcanns best feats? Dominating an, maybe weakend, Outlander?
Jaina bested Yuuzhan Vong, more than one decade before her prime, and TKed 50m Trees, iirc with ease, nearly one decade pre-prime.

AncientPower
Being more powerful than Vaylin, who has skyscraper tier TK.

Ursumeles
Than Arcann wins probably Force. He still loses Sabers, and imo all-out.

Nephthys
Arcann was blocking the focus of Valkorion's lightning that was blasting every surrounding ship out of the sky with just it's excess power. He's also more powerful than Vaylin who tore the side off a generator that compares with a large building, and bitchslapped her out of the air despite being greatly wounded and defeated. And yeah, the Outlander thing. Nox or 'Thor both have better feats than Jaina does, and the Wrath and HoT are clearly more powerful than her as well. Arcann's lightning attack he uses in the last fight would also fvck Jaina up something fierce.

The Outlander is easily comparable as a duelist to Jaina. Beating Vong doesn't compare to beating them in the slightest.

chingchangwalla
This gross under rating of Jaina needs to stop. Everyone needs to start wanking her, hard.

S_W_LeGenD
Jaina Solo is rather overrated.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
This gross under rating of Jaina needs to stop. Everyone needs to start wanking her, hard.
thumb up

UCanShootMyNova
Jaina.
Arcann.
Arcann.

Emperordmb
Sabers is interesting, but Arcann's Force edge puts it in his favor.

Sinious
Does Jaina have better force feats than the HoTlander?

Nephthys
No.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
This gross under rating of Jaina needs to stop. Everyone needs to start wanking her, hard.

Well I can agree with that. smile

Sinious
Originally posted by Nephthys
No. Then Arcann ragdolls.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by Sinious
Does Jaina have better force feats than the HoTlander?
Depends how you see it. I'll look after them, tho.
Also, IIRC Wollf once made a good case, for the Outlander being weakened to this time.

Tondemonai
Either way

Arcann solidly

Arcann

Nephthys
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Depends how you see it. I'll look after them, tho.
Also, IIRC Wollf once made a good case, for the Outlander being weakened to this time.

The argument can be made. But Arcann's other feats are well in excess of Jaina's.

Ursumeles
Which, exactly? Despite him being >Vaylin

Ursumeles
Want to continue the debate, Neph?

darthbane77
Jaina should at least take sabers. Otherwise, probably Arcann.

Nephthys
Throwing around the Outlander and Vaylin is beyond Jaina. As is his defense against Valkorion and his lightshow against the Outlander in their final duel.

Ursumeles
Yupp, is it beyond her. But that doesn't prove that he could do the same with her. Also, could you give me the scene in which he throws around Vaylin?

Nephthys
Jaina isn't more powerful than the Outlander and Vaylin. I'd imagine she might even get taken out by the attack he uses at the start of the final Outlander fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=058EeTq8uYk

6.16

The Ellimist
I'm leaning Arcann, but am open to a case for Jaina.

Ursumeles
Jaina is more skilled and nearly as powerrful.
I'll try to later make a case for her.

Nephthys
She is neither. Jaina may have taken out Slayers but Arcann and Thexan stomped 6 Zakuul Knights when they were 10.

SunRazer
It wasn't a stomp. Arcann lost and needed Thexan to save him.

Slayers shit on Zakuul Knights, anyway.

Ursumeles
An iirc weakened Slayer stomped Kyp Durron. Also, Jaina had 15 Years to grow after that, which is much for a Skywalker. You can see her growth alone through the fact, that she was (dueling-wise) in the mid NJO "only" a equal to Durron, and then: see above^

carthage
Jaina was on par with Kyle Katarn, Kyp Durron, and Viun Gaalan 15 years before FOTJ >> beating fodder knights

Nephthys
You guys were just waiting to jump on that huh.

They were outnumbered 3 to 1 and whooped them by getting serious. Arcann > Thexan. Zakuul Knights are upgrades on Jedi Knights, beating their asses when you're 10 is incredibly impressive and speaks volumes about the brothers abilities.

As of the Caedus fight Jaina says she's inferior to the Jedi council, so is she really Durron's equal?

The growth between when you're 10 and adulthood is far, far greater than Jaina's would be. Afaik, there really isn't much to even indicate her growth, its just an assumed amount based on an arbitrary number.

Ursumeles
Quote for Council>Jaina, please? Also, she is stated to be combative equal to all Jedi in FotJ, lol. Kyp is naturally>>her in the force, but he is also >>Arcann. And her feats suggest Jaina>>Kyp as Duelist, yeah.

It is just likely. She growed much in 2 years Yuuzhan Vong war, and then not in 15 years, with her ridicolous potential? Lol.

AncientPower
Jaina gets mad lowballing tbh. That or people just don't know shit about NJO, LOTF and FOTJ

Nephthys
"You?" This came from the other end of the table, where Corran sat looking surprised and worried. "You're only a Jedi Knight."

"So is Jacen," Jaina replied, relying on a technicality-but knowing that it would work in her favor if anybody tried to argue that a Jedi Knight wasn't powerful enough to confront Caedus. "I know that you Masters-and several Jedi Knights-are more skilled in both Force and lightsaber than I am. But I'm his twin sister. I'll have advantages no one else will."

And Arcann is also >>> Kyp as a duelist. Not to mention you exaggerate Kyp vs Arcann in the Force.

Conflict and adversity makes you grow. Its not like growth has ever been steady and reliable. People have reached limits and plateaued. Arcann's growth would wildly eclipse Jaina's in that time frame.

AncientPower
Obi-Wan Kenobi > Mace Windu confirmed. thumb up

MythLord
Jaina still takes this.

Nephthys
Jaina is weaker than people Arcann tosses around.

AncientPower
Jaina's Force feats are certainly not outstripped by the Outlander, but who'd have thought there was a respect thread for her?

Nephthys
I did. Hence why I've already double checked it and found her wanting. She's inferior in power to all the Force protags, not to mention Vaylin who is inferior to Arcann and the Outlander and still more powerful than Jaina.

Ursumeles
Lmao. She just wanted to confront Caedus herself, lol. Also, as of FotJ, Jaina>=all Jedi, bar Luke. Her mid-NJO to late-NJO growth alone is immense, lol.
Also, Kyp>>Arcann in the force.

@AP I have her as nigh-equal to Dooku/Windu. Do you have the quote, of her being the equal to everyone in the order?

MythLord
Jaina's vaporizing ship cannons by throwing sand at them, and increasing it's kinetic force by lifting a finger.

She ain't getting tossed around.

MythLord
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Do you have the quote, of her being the equal to everyone in the order?

""On most days, that would have been an easy job for two Jedi Masters and Jaina Solo, who, as the sword of the Jedi, had proven time and again that she was the combat equal of anyone in the Order."

-- FotJ: Apocalypse

Ursumeles
Originally posted by AncientPower
Jaina's Force feats are certainly not outstripped by the Outlander, but who'd have thought there was a respect thread for her?
thumb up
She hasn't extremely impressive big feats, but her growth and feats like stopping Caedus choke, are impressive. Especially if we consider, that, iirc, Jacen was stated to be >=Durfon in the Force, who would ragdoll Arcann.

AncientPower
Jaina being so good in a contest with Caedus that he described her lightsaber skills as 'flawless' and going around doing shit like ****ing up ship cannons and being capable of blitzing the kind of Vong that can stomp Kyp? Definitely not 'wanting' lmfao.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by AncientPower
Jaina being so good in a contest with Caedus that he described her lightsaber skills as 'flawless' and going around doing shit like ****ing up ship cannons and being capable of blitzing the kind of Vong that can stomp Kyp? Definitely not 'wanting' lmfao.
IIRC, she was amped by Luke at that point.
Wait, she blitzed the Slayers?

AncientPower
Which would effect augmentation, not lightsaber skill.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Lmao. She just wanted to confront Caedus herself, lol. Also, as of FotJ, Jaina>=all Jedi, bar Luke. Her mid-NJO to late-NJO growth alone is immense, lol.
Also, Kyp>>Arcann in the force.

@AP I have her as nigh-equal to Dooku/Windu. Do you have the quote, of her being the equal to everyone in the order?

Even if you say that, being that still only puts her in the range of getting whooped by Arcann. She still makes the claim and it's uncontested, right after Corran doubts her abilities.

Originally posted by MythLord
Jaina's vaporizing ship cannons by throwing sand at them, and increasing it's kinetic force by lifting a finger.

She ain't getting tossed around.

That feat doesn't appear to be in her respect thread, but she's probably just clogged it up. Regardless, blowing up cannon's is easy for the Outlander and nothing compared to what Vaylin did. Arcann still tossed both around.

AncientPower
I'm pretty sure breaking the telekinetic choke hold of Darth Caedus, way back in LOTF: Revelation, which is long before her prime in FOTJ, is definitely not within Arcann's ragdoll range.

Nephthys
She put everything she had into breaking it when he wasn't expecting it to be contested, lol.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by AncientPower
I'm pretty sure breaking the telekinetic choke hold of Darth Caedus, way back in LOTF: Revelation, which is long before her prime in FOTJ, is definitely not within Arcann's ragdoll range.
thumb up
Also, she just wanted to trick Corran, lol.
And, if Jaina<Council Members of LotF, then LotF Council members>>Arcann, lol.

Ziggystardust
Originally posted by AncientPower
I'm pretty sure breaking the telekinetic choke hold of Darth Caedus, way back in LOTF: Revelation, which is long before her prime in FOTJ, is definitely not within Arcann's ragdoll range.

Who exactly has Jacen ragdolled of note?

AncientPower
Given Caedus is taking Arcann in a Force battle, her ability to break a chokehold that Caedus is attempting to kill Mirta with, before she's far stronger in FOTJ, yeh nowhere near ragdoll range.

SunRazer
@Neph - Based on what is Arcann > Thexan? Thexan saved Arcann during the child sparring thing with the Zakuul Knights, and Arcann was the only one shown to be injured in the War as well. Not saying that Thexan is necessarily better than Arcann, but from the trailer, if you were to gather that anyone was stronger, it'd be Thexan, not Arcann.

Nephthys
Arcann killed Thexan......

Ziggystardust
.

SunRazer
Originally posted by Nephthys
Arcann killed Thexan......

Whilst enraged and having the first strike? Yeah.

EDIT: He was literally so enraged that he didn't even know what he was doing. He was completely lost in/controlled by his anger. That's a pretty substantial amp.

Ziggystardust
Originally posted by AncientPower
Given Caedus is taking Arcann in a Force battle, her ability to break a chokehold that Caedus is attempting to kill Mirta with, before she's far stronger in FOTJ, yeh nowhere near ragdoll range.

Isn't it easier to type no one.

What feats does Caedus have to suggest he's taking a raw Force battle? Other than his esoteric abilties?

SunRazer
Is the feat with Caedus manipulating 40m ships legitimate? Or was that "debunked" as well?

Ursumeles
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=632710

SunRazer
Mmm. I'm going through DNT to add more feats to my Leia thread. I might find some extras for Jacen or Jaina in the process.

Ursumeles
Noice thumb up

SunRazer
Does anybody have anything from her in Crucible that I should add? I only have her melting the Qreph brothers along with Luke in the Monolith. I also came across her in Oneness, where she swings her lightsaber in all these fast and fancy motions, but I recall being relatively unmoved or even unimpressed by it.

Ziggystardust
Originally posted by SunRazer
Is the feat with Caedus manipulating 40m ships legitimate? Or was that "debunked" as well?

It was debunked as well wink

MythLord
Originally posted by SunRazer
Does anybody have anything from her in Crucible that I should add? I only have her melting the Qreph brothers along with Luke in the Monolith. I also came across her in Oneness, where she swings her lightsaber in all these fast and fancy motions, but I recall being relatively unmoved or even unimpressed by it.

I read it a while ago... It was underwhelming, really. Even story-wise. And I don't recall any really notable things.

AncientPower
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Isn't it easier to type no one.

What feats does Caedus have to suggest he's taking a raw Force battle? Other than his esoteric abilties?
That wasn't even a reply to you. laughing out loud

His ability to humiliate the likes of Kyle Katarn, Ben Skywalker, Mara Jade Skywalker and Lumiya in an actual Force exchange. Coupled with the fact he's clearly > Kyp Durron, Corran Horn, Vergere, etc.

More importantly, he has the fact that he was the most powerful Force user in recorded history during his moment of Oneness. This left a permanent effect on his ability to wield the Force after it as well.

So take absolutely everything Jacen did prior to Oneness, power-scale that, and then power-scale that off of his increase in power after his fall to the dark side.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by AncientPower
Coupled with the fact he's clearly > Kyp Durron, Vergere, etc..
Quote? I suppose, the Vergere thing is as he oneshotted her with Lightning, while enraged, or?

MythLord
AP, is there a quote that says Caedus is > Durron?

Because so far, Kyp's feats are lookin' better.

Ursumeles
If so, then Caedus>all Sith, bar Vitty, Plaggy and Siddy smile

AncientPower
Note she isn't including Luke Skywalker because she's looking for the next Sith Lord, both her and Lumiya specifically choose Jacen over Kyp, in part because Kyp is too unpredictable but also because Jacen's more prodigious in the Force according to them. Note that they have no reason to BS, given their mission is to find the strongest candidate.

Ziggystardust
Originally posted by AncientPower
That wasn't even a reply to you. laughing out loud

Sure it wasn't :-)



I was hoping for something less circumstantial. Let's not reframe what actually happened, and there was no ragdolling involved either. Kyle created a protective barrier to shield himself from a direct TK attack, so Jacen decided to drag a nearby speeder into his back, a rather stark implication that whatever Force barrier Kyle erected was too powerful for Jacen to overcome. Needless to say, Arcann certainly rag-dolls his fair share of people without ever needing to look for favourable environment factos.



Ah yes, the nine year old Ben Skywalker in Dark Nest Trilogy?



Citation for bother?



Citation?



Coolstorybro



Again, coolstorybro



Citation?



Citation?



So basically, nothing impressive...

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