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Revan.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan.
Dayum. Who do you reckon beats Revan in sabers Ant? No one?

Lmfao. He's fighting Droma, not ****ing Palpatine.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Lmfao. He's fighting Droma, not ****ing Palpatine. Droma was matching Kun in sabers.

So can Revan.

And prime Kun at that.

Obviously. In just about every thread with Revan you say he takes Sabers. Why? Because he knows Echani and Mando techniques? It's obviously not true, but for Malak to be considered a better duelist (can't remember the source) means Revan is in the same league. And Droma should beat Malak almost every time in sabers.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So can Revan.

And prime Kun at that.
Again, based on what?

Well for one, Droma isn't beating Malak every time in sabers. Chances are they're around the same level. Hell, Malak might even be better.

For two, the fact Malak *may* have greater technical lightsaber skill than Revan doesn't make him a better duelist.

Revan's so good because of the combination of the Jedi lightsaber forms, the Mandalorian and Echani arts, battle precognition, and his Force augmentation.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Again, based on what? His obvious showings against... Erm... The Imperial Guard...

In which he killed in seconds!

One of those guards is apparently equal to a Dark Council member or something.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Well for one, Droma isn't beating Malak every time in sabers. Chances are they're around the same level. Hell, Malak might even be better.

For two, the fact Malak *may* have greater technical lightsaber skill than Revan doesn't make him a better duelist.

Revan's so good because of the combination of the Jedi lightsaber forms, the Mandalorian and Echani arts, battle precognition, and his Force augmentation. What makes Malak so good then?

Don't get me wrong, I WANT Revan to win this, but I can't see him doing so.

He's the second greatest Jedi of the age, his combat abilities have been compared to Revan's military success, and he beat Bastila Shan in roughly twenty seconds.

The latter feat frankly being relevant due to Bastila Shan being an immensely powerful Jedi with lightsaber skills compared to Exar Kun and Darth Maul.

I'm really interested in the Malak > Droma Ant. Exar should smoke Malak...

Ulic.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He's the second greatest Jedi of the age, his combat abilities have been compared to Revan's military success, and he beat Bastila Shan in roughly twenty seconds.

The latter feat frankly being relevant due to Bastila Shan being an immensely powerful Jedi with lightsaber skills compared to Exar Kun and Darth Maul.

Exar and Maul in the same league? I'm too much of a fanboy to even go there.

I'd gladly do a public CaV style Revan vs Exar Kun debate with you, Ching.

You'd get trashed, but still.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Exar and Maul in the same league? I'm too much of a fanboy to even go there.
Eh, Kun's pretty good. Obviously not as good as Maul in technical skill, but with other things considered, he's up there, yeah.

...

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He's the second greatest Jedi of the age, his combat abilities have been compared to Revan's military success, and he beat Bastila Shan in roughly twenty seconds.

The latter feat frankly being relevant due to Bastila Shan being an immensely powerful Jedi with lightsaber skills compared to Exar Kun and Darth Maul. Where was Bastila compared to Exar Kun or Maul?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'd gladly do a public CaV style Revan vs Exar Kun debate with you, Ching.

You'd get trashed, but still.
Obviously.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Where was Bastila compared to Exar Kun or Maul?
She's listed as a tier three double-bladed duelist in KotORCG.

Note that even the likes of Grievous isn't listed as tier three.

It's exclusive among Maul, Kun, and Shan, from what I've seen.

And regarding where I have Revan in sabers, I have him as generally on par with Exar Kun, Darth Krayt, Darth Vader, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Dooku, etc.

The only duelists I can really see taking a clean majority against him are Palpatine, Yoda, Luke Skywalker, Darth Caedus, and Anakin Skywalker.

Possibly also Mace Windu, but it depends on your interpretation of the text.

^ Is that just in technical skill? I hope it is.

Overall combative ability, but Kenobi and Dooku aren't *exactly* on the same level as Kun, Krayt, and Vader due to their weaker connection to the Force.

I was generally speaking, of course.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
She's listed as a tier three double-bladed duelist in KotORCG.

Note that even the likes of Grievous isn't listed as tier three.

It's exclusive among Maul, Kun, and Shan, from what I've seen.

Whats KotORCG?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And regarding where I have Revan in sabers, I have him as generally on par with Exar Kun, Darth Krayt, Darth Vader, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Dooku, etc.

The only duelists I can really see taking a clean majority against him are Palpatine, Yoda, Luke Skywalker, Darth Caedus, and Anakin Skywalker.

Possibly also Mace Windu, but it depends on your interpretation of the text.

So you have Anakin superior to Vader ?

Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide.

Originally posted by TheKnight
So you have Anakin superior to Vader ?
Anakin's definitely better than Vader, yeah.

Especially in lightsaber combat.

In Force it's closer, but Skywalker still triumphs.

Sources that list Bastilla within Dooku's tier alongside Kenobi ( when it's clear Dooku is his superior due to Kenobi getting trashed by Dooku every single time they've ever fought ) or equal to Grievous in sabers are blatantly incorrect. Ant hasn't learned his lesson yet on using unsupported sh!tty quotes though it appears.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Sources that list Bastilla within Dooku's tier alongside Kenobi ( when it's clear Dooku is his superior due to him getting trashed by Dooku every single time they've ever fought ) or equal to Grievous in sabers are blatantly incorrect. Ant hasn't learned his lesson yet on using unsupported sh!tty quotes though it appears.
Well for one, the source that lists Shan in Dooku's tier isn't even KotORCG, but the fact two *different* sources label Shan on that level is certainly telling.

No one wants to hear you cry though, so go find someplace private.

Unfortunately for you Bastilla is and will always be sh!t and everybody knows it. None of your shitty Wizards of the Coast or KotORCG guide quotes will change that.

Unless of course you want to accept SK oneshotted an ISD with force energies as is confirmed in the TFUIICG.

If not, fugg off.

This nitpicking of quote relevance is disturbing. People picking and choosing which quotes are relevant to support their case is ****ed. All are fine (as long as there is no contradiction)

@UCSMN:

Considering it doesn't seem you even know what the difference is between a CG and a PG, I recommend stop talking because you're embarrassing yourself.

Again.

I really look forward to applying these standards to some of your other arguments. It wouldwill be a thrill.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
This is nitpicking of quote relevance is disturbing. People picking and choosing which quotes are relevant to support their case is ****ed. All are fine (as long as there is no contradiction)

Except there is contradiction. We know that the Wizards of the Coast ROLEPLAYING guide is notorious for putting up quotes that are crazy inaccurate on the basis of showings.

The CG ( Campaign Guides ) for games have generic tier rankings for dueling and other categories that put characters who shouldn't even be near each other on the same level. What's disturbing is Ant trying to pass those things off as evidence to support his case.

What's disturbing is you ignoring it specifically because you don't like what it says.

Like, that's literally your argument - that it so differs from your placement of characters that it can't possibly be true.

It's amusing though, so let's all watch and see what bullshit excuse you can post next.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
@UCSMN:

Considering it doesn't seem you even know what the difference is between a CG and a PG, I recommend stop talking because you're embarrassing yourself.

Again.

I really look forward to applying these standards to some of your other arguments. It wouldwill be a thrill.

You called it the KotORCG.

I assume you're referring to the KOTOR campaign guide which is essentially directions for the game that you use to justify events that were not confirmed in any other source and is basically only confirmed there because it's an actual instruction guide for the game. Lmao.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
You called it the KotORCG.

I assume you're referring to the KOTOR campaign guide which is essentially directions for the game that you use to justify events that were not confirmed in any other source and is basically only confirmed there because it's an actual instruction guide for the game. Lmao.

That's the KotORPG (the prima guide). Not the KotORCG (the campaign guide).



This is too much fun.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
What's disturbing is you're ignoring it specifically because you don't like what it says.

Like, that's literally your argument - that it so differs from your placement of characters that it can't possibly be true.

It's amusing though, so let's all watch and see what bullshit excuse you can post next.

I'm ignoring it because based off the multitude of quotes from it we know it to be inaccurate based upon showings from far more legitimate sources. Such as the RotS novel for example.

Probably won't be nearly as wide or deep as yours tbh.

Yeah, you basically said that already three times.

We laughed at you all three times.

Care to say it a fourth?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That's the KotORPG (the prima guide). Not the KotORCG (the campaign guide).



This is too much fun.

And? What does that have to do with the dubious quality of the existing quotes you try to tout? It doesn't matter where they come from if they contradict shown events.

Ah, nice, so you concede the point.

You mask it by just shifting to your other point.

But that point isn't actually a point, just you complaining,

So feel free to try to raise a new one.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yeah, you basically said that already three times.

We laughed at you all three times.

Care to say it a fourth?

And you failed to come up with a response all those times. :P

Lmao. Referring to yourself as a hivemind again I see.

Care to actually post a counter for why we should accept your sh!tty quotes.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Ah, nice, so you concede the point.

You mask it by just shifting to your other point.

But that point isn't actually a point, just you complaining,

So feel free to try to raise a new one.

?

What point am I apparently shifting to in your deluded mind?

The point is, if a quote is contradicted by showings then it's obviously not usable.

Until you address the one I'm bringing up I don't feel the need to.

No, I need not justify why an officially licensed, canon source should be considered an officially licensed, canon source.

Sasukedc has already hammered into you about this, I believe.

By denying the validity of the quote for no reason other than where you personally rank the characters, you concede the point by default.

You're stating there is a direct contradiction when the only contradiction is fan-constructed and made.

Revan wins

Pathetic debating from Ant's opponents
Pathetic from Ant to even respond to this

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No, I need not justify why an officially licensed, canon source should be considered an officially licensed, canon source.

Sasukedc has already hammered into you about this, I believe.

By denying the validity of the quote for no reason other than where you personally rank the characters, you concede the point by default.

You're stating there is a direct contradiction when the only contradiction is fan-constructed and made.

So then you believe Starkiller oneshotted an ISD with force energy since the TFUIICG is also an "officially licensed canon source?" :P Just want to hear you admit it.

I deny the quote on the basis that it contradicts shown events in areas of more consistent canon. I.E. Obi Wan is not on Dooku's tier.

Except it's not and that's what I'm trying to point out to you.

Feel free to provide the quote.

Ah, you still don't get it. Allow me to explain (for the last time):

A legitimate contradiction is only when one work explicitly states X, but then another work (or sometimes even the same) declares Y in the same context.

For example, Darth Bandon being proclaimed the most powerful Sith ever is contradicted by his inferiority to Revan, who is inferior to Vitiate, who is inferior to Palpatine, the proclaimed most powerful Sith Lord.

However, if Darth Bandon is proclaimed more powerful than, say, an unnamed planet-consuming entity, then is no actual contradiction. Nothing demands the entity to be more powerful than Darth Bandon besides fan-based assessments, which aren't actual arguments. Thus, Darth Bandon would factually be greater than the planet-consuming entity, and all characters would have to be scaled up appropriately.

Here: http://www.ign.com/wikis/star-wars-the-force-unleashed-ii/Salvation%3A_The_Battle_for_the_Salvation_3

And you're saying you'd believe Bandon to be more powerful then said planet consuming entity if a quote like that existed?

And all characters scaled up appropriately, of course.

Otherwise, you're way of thinking is inherently biased because it's based on fan-based assessments (ex. you), not legitimate facts.

*sigh

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And all characters scaled up appropriately, of course.

Otherwise, you're way of thinking is inherently biased because it's based on fan-based assessments (ex. you), not legitimate facts.

I can't accept that. If it goes against the reasonable knowledge on the character we possess ( even if it doesn't outright contradict it ) I can't accept it as valid.

Well, now that I understand your basis I can respect it if not agree with it. Carry on.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Here: http://www.ign.com/wikis/star-wars-the-force-unleashed-ii/Salvation%3A_The_Battle_for_the_Salvation_3
That's the PG, not the CG.

Anyway, quote me on what in particular you're referring to.

The confirmation that SK powered the cannon that blew apart the ISD in the Salvation missions.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I can't accept that. If it goes against the reasonable knowledge on the character we possess ( even if it doesn't outright contradict it ) I can't accept it as valid.

Well, now that I understand your basis I can respect it if not agree with it. Carry on.

Well then you're wrong, and I can't accept your stances in general as valid since they neglect facts in preference of favoritism.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The confirmation that SK powered the cannon that blew apart the ISD in the Salvation missions.
Who denied that?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Well then you're wrong, and I can't accept your stances in general as valid since they neglect facts in preference of favoritism.

*Shrug* Then you don't have to.

My stances are based on rationality and takes into account the fact that their can be errors in a canon system as large as the Star Wars EU. I attempt to not let favoritism tint my view of characters. Despite my bold proclamations I don't think Galen is a peer of Sidious's because I know that that's not what the writers intended. I may defend his performance against Sidious and point out the flaws in people's arguments detracting from it but I've only ever claimed he's above Vader, made my arguments and let people decide where to place him from there.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Who denied that?

Didn't say you denied it. I guess I just assumed you would though.

*Shrug*

Guess I shouldn't have assumed.

Well this was fun to read, gonna say Revan wins though.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Well this was fun to read, gonna say Revan wins though.
https://m.popkey.co/2f51a1/mr1J5_s-200x150.gif

I admire your boldness Ant. Revan's Saber skill will soon be the wank trend on KMC

@Ant, that's one badass kid right there.

Revan, 6/10 barely

Revan. Ulic'd be his hardest fight ever, though.

Originally posted by Azronger
Revan. Ulic'd be his hardest fight ever, though.

Ulic

Sabers only?

Ulic wins.