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1. Sabers

2. Force

3. All-Out

Ren, all rounds.

Kylo should take all three

Originally posted by MythLord
Ren, all rounds.

I'm proud of you ^^

Originally posted by darthbane77
Kylo should take all three

Ren in sabers....? Hehe, honestly?

Yes. One of the most capable warriors in history > Aayla.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
I'm proud of you ^^

You like Ezra, so it is not mutual.

Capable warriors get shot by Chewbacca and beaten by a girl who never used a Saber before. Defs Malgus level

Shot by Chewbacca while his guard was down, and bested by Rey in Oneness while emotionally and physically crippled, and said girl was noted as perfecting melee defense techniques.

But, y'know, let us just ignore all of the sources for favour of face-value, head-canon.

It's still embarrassing no matter which way you put it.

Originally posted by MythLord
Yes. One of the most capable warriors in history > Aayla.

One of the most skilled jedi in the CW > that bs.

Originally posted by MythLord
Shot by Chewbacca while his guard was down, and bested by Rey in Oneness while emotionally and physically crippled, and said girl was noted as perfecting melee defense techniques.

But, y'know, let us just ignore all of the sources for favour of face-value, head-canon. She wasn't in Oneness, stop saying she was in Oneness.

Nothing says that she was, the novel doesn't line up with other showings of Oneness whatsoever.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
It's still embarrassing no matter which way you put it. Kylo does have impressive off-screen showing, his saber skills apparently took out most of the Jedi that came after Luke re-instituted the Jedi Order.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
apparently took out most of the Jedi
:/

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
:/ http://i.imgur.com/vruDxnR.jpg

"As it was his deadly lightsaber skills that prevented the return of the Jedi Order."

cewl. I just love how they make him out to be an absolute badass and in the movie he's shit.

Kylo

Lmao. No.


Aayla

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Lmao. No.


Aayla Yay....

Kylo killing some unquantified trainees and having Skywalker blood doesn't make him as skilled as some people are suggesting. Otherwise, Leia deserves to be a hell of a lot higher.

I won't rank Kylo specifically until we get more on him, but he's probably in Aayla's class.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Kylo killing some unquantified trainees and having Skywalker blood doesn't make him as skilled as some people are suggesting. Otherwise, Leia deserves to be a hell of a lot higher.

I won't rank Kylo specifically until we get more on him, but he's probably in Aayla's class. He beat Finn though.

So did Stormtrooper #1345.

Ren with some speculation

Originally posted by SunRazer
Kylo killing some unquantified trainees and having Skywalker blood doesn't make him as skilled as some people are suggesting. Otherwise, Leia deserves to be a hell of a lot higher.

I won't rank Kylo specifically until we get more on him, but he's probably in Aayla's class.

I'm leaning Kylo for now. As much as everyone likes to shit on Kylo's performance in the TFA lightsaber duel, I'm not sure if I could see Aayla dueling someone in that condition.

Aayla beat Aurra after tanking an explosion. Aurra being >>> a janitor and a scavenger.

I'm not really sure what Finn being a janitor has to do with anything or why it's held above his head as a bad thing, when he clearly shows melee and blaster skill anyway. I mean yeah sure he did janitorial duties, but he's still a trained FO Trooper.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I'm not really sure what Finn being a janitor has to do with anything or why it's held above his head as a bad thing, when he clearly shows melee and blaster skill anyway. I mean yeah sure he did janitorial duties, but he's still a trained FO Trooper. Wasnt he stomping other troopers in melee combat?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Wasnt he stomping other troopers in melee combat?

Yeah.

Aayla. Better saber feats and accolades.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
She wasn't in Oneness, stop saying she was in Oneness.

Nothing says that she was, the novel doesn't line up with other showings of Oneness whatsoever.

I posted two quotes from the novels that suggest she was in "Oneness" or amped through the Force in some way; she was feeling an emotion, one she never experienced before, filling her through the Force and giving her power.
Even Kylo sensed it. It was undeniably a "Oneness" situation.

And so far, you can attribute Luke's and Anakin's sudden demolishing of their respective Dark Side opponents -- very similar to Reys -- as "Oneness" or an amp through the Force.

Originally posted by SunRazer
So did Stormtrooper #1345. Actually, it was Stormtrooper 2199.

Kylo Ren isn't shit, the fact that they needed to emotionally and physically destroy him in order for someone like Finn, one of the best melee fighters in the galaxy, or Rey, who possesses huge amounts of raw power en potential, to actually stand a chance against him speak volumes about how they think about him (to be honest, Finn was still stomped when Kylo decided to end things while Rey was driven back almost immediately). Add to that him killing most of Luke's other students years before TFA and some accolades (like being one of the best warriors in Star Wars history) and it's pretty clear he isn't close to being bad.

Regarding the "destroying Luke's Order" feat, well even though we don't know what kind of training the students got or how strong they actually were, you can still draw some conclusions about them. First, Luke at this point is far more experienced, powerful and knowledgeable than he was in Return of the Jedi, they even call him 'Master' in the Visual Guide, so the training he could give should be very decent and I don't really see a difference between Anakin (just promoted to Jedi Knight) training Ahsoka and Luke training his students. Secondly, these students weren't your average Force sensitive characters, they should logically be amongst the best Luke could find because they would create the fundation of his new Order (this is never stated as a fact but is derived from logical interpretation of the evidence we actually have on it).

Originally posted by darthbane77
Actually, it was Stormtrooper 2199.

Again one of the best the First Order has to offer

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Kylo Ren isn't shit, the fact that they needed to emotionally and physically destroy him in order for someone like Finn, one of the best melee fighters in the galaxy, or Rey, who possesses huge amounts of raw power en potential, to actually stand a chance against him speak volumes about how they think about him (to be honest, Finn was still stomped when Kylo decided to end things while Rey was driven back almost immediately). Add to that him killing most of Luke's other students years before TFA and some accolades (like being one of the best warriors in Star Wars history) and it's pretty clear he isn't close to being bad.

Regarding the "destroying Luke's Order" feat, well even though we don't know what kind of training the students got or how strong they actually were, you can still draw some conclusions about them. First, Luke at this point is far more experienced, powerful and knowledgeable than he was in Return of the Jedi, they even call him 'Master' in the Visual Guide, so the training he could give should be very decent and I don't really see a difference between Anakin (just promoted to Jedi Knight) training Ahsoka and Luke training his students. Secondly, these students weren't your average Force sensitive characters, they should logically be amongst the best Luke could find because they would create the fundation of his new Order (this is never stated as a fact but is derived from logical interpretation of the evidence we actually have on it).

We don't know how the First Order stormtroopers stack up against other Melee combatants, so its hard to place them.

We just know they're trained more then other factions in Melee combat, and thats still a fact we don't know for sure.

For all we know, in a future novel, Finn could be losing brawls to one common thug.

Originally posted by MythLord
I posted two quotes from the novels that suggest she was in "Oneness" or amped through the Force in some way; she was feeling an emotion, one she never experienced before, filling her through the Force and giving her power.
Even Kylo sensed it. It was undeniably a "Oneness" situation.

And so far, you can attribute Luke's and Anakin's sudden demolishing of their respective Dark Side opponents -- very similar to Reys -- as "Oneness" or an amp through the Force. Post the quote, and then other quotes of Oneness, we'll use Galen Marek as an example, since people like to bring that up a lot.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
We don't know how the First Order stormtroopers stack up against other Melee combatants, so its hard to place them.

We just know they're trained more then other factions in Melee combat, and thats still a fact we don't know for sure.

For all we know, in a future novel, Finn could be losing brawls to one common thug.

They're considered 'super soldiers' so I doubt that one of their better fighters, Finn, is going to be average. Especially consdering he's one of the main protagonists of the new Sequel Trilogy.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Post the quote, and then other quotes of Oneness, we'll use Galen Marek as an example, since people like to bring that up a lot.

Don't want to get between you two but is comparing an example of Oneness in Legends to Canon really usable?

Originally posted by MythLord
You like Ezra, so it is not mutual.

How dare you disrespect Ezra???!!! You're the devil

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
They're considered 'super soldiers' so I doubt that one of their better fighters, Finn, is going to be average. Especially consdering he's one of the main protagonists of the new Sequel Trilogy.

Super soldier doesn't really mean much, we haven't seen anything super about them. Until that happens, that shouldn't just be taken at face value.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Super soldier doesn't really mean much, we haven't seen anything super about them. Until that happens, that shouldn't just be taken at face value.

Because we haven't seen anything that is considered "super" means they can't be? The feat only approach is kind of limited.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Because we haven't seen anything that is considered "super" means they can't be? The feat only approach is kind of limited. Because Super Soldier could mean anything.

The stuff we've seen from Clones and Imperial Stormtroopers actually outclasses what is seen from the First Order by a large margin.

Yeah, Finn could beat a Clone, but which Clones are we talking here?

Rex and Boss were performing feats above what Finn can do.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Because Super Soldier could mean anything.

The stuff we've seen from Clones and Imperial Stormtroopers actually outclasses what is seen from the First Order by a large margin.

Yeah, Finn could beat a Clone, but which Clones are we talking here?

Rex and Boss were performing feats above what Finn can do.

Above offering some kind of challange to an extremely injured Kylo? Doubt that Rex or any clone could replicate that.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Above offering some kind of challange to an extremely injured Kylo? Doubt that Rex or any clone could replicate that. He didn't offer Kylo a challenge, Kylo was holding back immensely.

All that still doesn't put Kylo above Aayla.

Literally nothing that we've seen from Kylo, Rey, or Finn has been impressive.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
He didn't offer Kylo a challenge, Kylo was holding back immensely.

All that still doesn't put Kylo above Aayla.

Literally nothing that we've seen from Kylo, Rey, or Finn has been impressive.

There is also this something called interpretation, Kylo's potential is immense (him being a direct descendant from Anakin) and he's got lifetime of training from Luke and Snoke so you expect him to be inferior to Aayla? Not everything is about feats.

Oh yeah Finn actually provided some challenge, sure he was completely stomped but the novel and junior novel confirm that Finn performed better then Kylo expected and that Kylo's playful tone ended because Finn provided a challange.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
There is also this something called interpretation, Kylo's potential is immense (him being a direct descendant from Anakin) and he's got lifetime of training from Luke and Snoke so you expect him to be inferior to Aayla? Not everything is about feats.

Oh yeah Finn actually provided some challenge, sure he was completely stomped but the novel and junior novel confirm that Finn performed better then Kylo expected and that Kylo's playful tone ended because Finn provided a challange. Hitting someone isn't providing a challenge.

If I go into a UFC fight, right?

And I hit the dude in the face, get one good punch, but the guy is toying with me, and after the punch, I get knocked out, NO ONE is gonna be like "Whoa, that Jman guy really provided a challenge for that dude."

I don't care what his potential is, I care about how powerful he is right now, at this moment, and he currently sucks.

The only impressive thing about him is his TK defense.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Because we haven't seen anything that is considered "super" means they can't be? The feat only approach is kind of limited.

Not that they can't be, but if they haven't shown anything that would deem them super...I don't see why we should take it at face value.

But the future movies and material may expand on that later, the FO is just starting out after all. Just like everything else really.

All the factions in Legends are pretty much superior to the ones in Canon as of now. But that's pretty much a no-brainer seeing as Legends as 30+ years of material, fleshed out and everything.

aayla hospitalizes this fool.