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Force powers only

*Composite versions of both

Dooku will always win. Maul has decent TK but Dooku has far more experience with far more powers.

Originally posted by Azronger
Well, considering a single attack from an injured Dooku was enough to kill Asajj Ventress, I don't favor Maul's chances.

In fact, an even more injured Dooku - quite literally half-dead - has already proven his superiority to Maul, when he joined Sidious and Maul joined Talzin, Dooku and Sidious began to overpower them, whereas previously it had been a stalemate:

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5303461-1118930330-EdoAyvqZc2DZEz5VEkUoICtkAN4fcqmkeSm-iC8tCIsj27gFQexyu42WHcZ9sMNHUyBiVr4dsf3j%3Ds0

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/5303879-3242113893-5303462-7304541430- 3fp7EIavmHdsY5QKn6aNrS75SiMQRCR93sOyIBACc7OKl8HyAQ
JLiXyCeoKM3DnZNqIURHRs4rpM%253Ds0

Even if it wouldn't outright kill him, Maul's reaction to even the weakest Force lightning has been to collapse on his knees:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/127594/5028561-8941402430-352_z.png

To more powerful - although still non-lethal - blasts:
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111220339/5341959-8404425868-48176.gif

So yes, a single blast of lightning from Dooku will permanently take Maul out of the fight. I'd even argue this applies to Telekinesis:
http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/11122/111225346/5370533-obi-wan+tk+maul.gif

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/4421345-6669835845-y4Yag.gif

Note that Obi-Wan has endured about just as much pain as Maul has in his life, yet was still knocked by Dooku.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11126/111265303/4928033-untitled.gif

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/3788751-8fb20.gif

Durge being strong enough to do this:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/3789016-8fd1h.gif

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5323616-strength+dominates+kit+fisto+and+plo+koon.png

-----

So I can definately see Maul getting one-shot by Dooku's lightning and TK.

You highly underestimate Maul's endurance and pain tolerance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWdD206eSv0

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Dooku will always win. Maul has decent TK but Dooku has far more experience with far more powers.

Azronger made some good points that I agree with.

Let's see if Quanchi will take the bait though...

Tyranus isn't one-shotting, but he wins, yeah.

Dooku is the superior Force user, but I could see Maul winning through sheer endurance.

Dooku's endurance is infinite

maul oneshots with lightning

The Count should win by a notable margin, tbh.

Still, I cannot see Maul getting one-shotted.

Originally posted by MythLord
The Count should win by a notable margin, tbh.

Still, I cannot see Maul getting one-shotted.

Dooku wins during TCW.

But let's see if Rebels Maul has improved at all. One step at a time though. He has to prove himself as Kanan's superior first, which so far he's done a lousy job of.

Give me a notable defensive Force feat from Maul. Until then:
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111220339/5341959-8404425868-48176.gif

It doesn't look like I'm undrestimating anything. More like everyone else is overestimating Maul's endurance.

And I propose a question to you all: How is Maul actually going to kill Dooku?

I love you for this, tbh.

Still, though, Maul's endurance and Barrier should be enough to not getting insta-killed by the Count, tbh.

The only chances Maul has are beating Dooku early through Sabers, which would be highly unlikely but still possible. Or outlasting Dooku, avoiding and tanking anything thrown at him, absorbing his lightning and waiting for the Count to tire.
I could see him winning 3, maybe 4 times out 10 honestly.

It's Force powers only, lol.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
The only chances Maul has are beating Dooku early through Sabers, which would be highly unlikely but still possible. Or outlasting Dooku, avoiding and tanking anything thrown at him, absorbing his lightning and waiting for the Count to tire.
I could see him winning 3, maybe 4 times out 10 honestly.
How is Maul winning through Sabers, in Force only? :P

I know. I've already answered, just thinkin

Originally posted by MythLord
I love you for this, tbh.





Originally posted by Azronger
Give me a notable defensive Force feat from Maul.

Originally posted by Azronger
Give me a notable defensive Force feat from Maul. Until then:
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111220339/5341959-8404425868-48176.gif

It doesn't look like I'm undrestimating anything. More like everyone else is overestimating Maul's endurance.

And I propose a question to you all: How is Maul actually going to kill Dooku? Hardly the best comparison considering Dooku hasn't a lick on Sidious, and Maul was himself in an exhausted condition. But points for trying.

Regardless, his ability to continue fighting after having his spine mauled by a wampa (without Force augmentation), or hit by frag grenades, shrug of slashes from Varayctls, Barabels and vibroblades, power through Mighella's lighting and endure flesh roasting suffocating heat demonstrates his endurance capabilities to be rather immense.

He was also able to remain conscious where Savage failed when left stranded and heat deprived in empty space. In fact he just so happens to be much more powerful than Savage, whom himself was able to tank successive bursts of Dooku's lightning without being KO'ed.

On the other hand I'm not really convinced of Dooku's ability to take a hit, he has no endurance feats to his name and in the few situations in which is body has been put under duress, he's ended up more than worse for wear. In that respect Maul could very well outlast him.

Dooku took a "terminal velocity" kick from Anakin that sent him over the railing in the RotS novel and he was pretty unharmed by that even though he was exhausted. He just cleanses his fatigue after that.

Otherwise, people tend to cite him apparently resisting Sidious' Lightning in SoD #4.

Where Sidious obviously didn't intend to kill him.

Oh, there's more than just that.

Then list those others, not that when Sidious wasn't aiming to kill lol.

There's more than that on your side, lol. Such as Talzin inhabiting the body. Dooku's exhaustion afterwards could easily be chalked up to being possessed by Talzin alone.

And you can say that Sidious wasn't going for the kill against Maul, either.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Dooku took a "terminal velocity" kick from Anakin that sent him over the railing in the RotS novel and he was pretty unharmed by that even though he was exhausted. He just cleanses his fatigue after that.

Otherwise, people tend to cite him apparently resisting Sidious' Lightning in SoD #4. Well it was only a kick lol, and it left him practically immobilised regardless. On the other hand Maul shrugged off kicks from Darth Sidious, if we wish to compare.

I would attribute that 'feat' to Talzin tbh, not Dooku. Not that it didn't leave his body ****ed all the same.

1. Maul was enraged and Sidious was toying. Dooku basically took the kick with complete surprise (you could argue that there was no Force augmentation) and he was pretty much completely unharmed despite his prior exhaustion. That's pretty good.

2. Yeah, I don't really count it myself.

Originally posted by SunRazer
There's more than that on your side, lol. Such as Talzin inhabiting the body. Dooku's exhaustion afterwards could easily be chalked up to being possessed by Talzin alone.

That's all irrelevant when Sidious couldn't risk killing Dooku

Originally posted by SunRazer
And you can say that Sidious wasn't going for the kill against Maul, either.

Yes, never even claimed it's a feat for Maul.

Despite the fact that Sidious wasn't trying to kill Tyranus, he still wanted to exorcise a spirit of nigh-equal power to his own so I doubt it was a love tap. Additional, Dooku's life essence was drained heavily through a ritual Talzin performed and wasn't really defending himself, whereas Sheev was amplified.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Hardly the best comparison considering Dooku hasn't a lick on Sidious, and Maul was himself in an exhausted condition. But points for trying.

I'm quite certain Dooku knows how to torture his victims without killing them, lmao.

And exhausted? Really? The guy fought for months on end, and now suddenly he's going to be exhausted by a five-minute duel? Even some of the stuff you yourself posted below quite nicely renders your point moot.



Well, it seems actual Sith Lightning is far more painful than all of this. Too bad for Maul:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/3938835-3938832-9111058718-38067.jpg



I'm not factoring in the plot that required Savage to be alive. Fact is Dooku has shown himself to be far more powerful than this. In the same episode Ventress tanks a lightning blast from Dooku with no effect other than a simple scream. A couple of episodes back she took quite an extensive burst and a fall from a cliff. Still nothing. Yet in DD, a few bolts from a half-conscious Dooku cause her internal bleeding and she dies a minute later.

Maul could endure that, sure, but what about a blast from a full-powered Dooku? Or better yet, a storm:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/3504246-7664108771-21511.jpg



So, what you're saying is Maul will tank Dooku's Force Lightning Storm till the Count dies of old age? Forgive my disbelief.

As I see it, the entire "fight" will consist of this:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/3938837-a2ep1.gif

If Maul does endure (which I find hard to believe), then a bit more of this:
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111220339/5341959-8404425868-48176.gif

Or this:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/4421345-6669835845-y4Yag.gif

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
That's all irrelevant when Sidious couldn't risk killing Dooku



Yes, never even claimed it's a feat for Maul.

It's relevant because it's not even Dooku that's resisting it, lol.

Great.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Maul was enraged and Sidious was toying. Dooku basically took the kick with complete surprise (you could argue that there was no Force augmentation) and he was pretty much completely unharmed despite his prior exhaustion. That's pretty good.

2. Yeah, I don't really count it myself. A toying Sidious who still trashed the Brothers, which is far more than Anakin could accomplish. And it would be could if he actually... endured it, his extenuating circumstances merely makes up for the embarrassment of being almost KO'ed by a kick.

Obi-Wan was KO'd by a kick in the graphic novel

Originally posted by Azronger
I'm quite certain Dooku knows how to torture his victims without killing them, lmao.

And exhausted? Really? The guy fought for months on end, and now suddenly he's going to be exhausted by a five-minute duel? Even some of the stuff you yourself posted below quite nicely renders your point moot.Exhausted yes, its quite obvious from his body language. This being a result of fighting Darth Sidious, who you've still yet to prove Dooku can match the power output of.Dooku's ability to inflict pain doesn't preclude Maul's ability to overcome it and fight back, which he obviously isn't in a position to do so here. There's also every possibility that the energy field immobilising him disrupted his connection to the Force as it did Kenobi in the AotC novelisation.Which only demonstrates his inability to bring that into a combat situation, and the significance of Ventress' own injuries. That's not a storm lol, he's just attacking multiple people.Naturally, but then your assuming Maul is just going to sit there let Dooku hit him. As opposed to a. fight back b. dodge his attacks or deflect them with a barrier c. a combination of the above. Considering he wasn't able to overwhelm Vos with his Force powers I don't fancy his chances here.

On the other hand yes, I see Dooku suffering more damage from the blows Maul is able to inflict on him. And with the inability of either party to outright dominate the other, it will ultimately come down to a contest of endurance.

Dooku did dominate Vos with the Force... twice.

I'm referring to Canon Vos.

As opposed to a. fight back b. dodge his attacks or deflect them with a barrier

Which barrier? Has Maul ever shown, that he's capable of doing that thing?

Originally posted by McP
As opposed to a. fight back b. dodge his attacks or deflect them with a barrier

Which barrier? Has Maul ever shown, that he's capable of doing that thing?

Originally posted by SunRazer
Obi-Wan was KO'd by a kick in the graphic novel
http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111178634/4334678-dooku+kicks+kenobi.jpg

Originally posted by McP
As opposed to a. fight back b. dodge his attacks or deflect them with a barrier

Which barrier? Has Maul ever shown, that he's capable of doing that thing? The one that shielded him from an explosion that vaporised Anoon Boondara should suffice.Originally posted by Kurk http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111178634/4334678-dooku+kicks+kenobi.jpgEmbarrassing, yeah.

Didin't he get TKO'd by that blast?

Regardless, Dooku should just be capable of vaporising unprotected Twilek flesh and bone at his most powerful.

Anyway, Maul obviously gets rekted, but whether it's a one-shot or not is yet to be discovered.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Didin't he get TKO'd by that blast?

Regardless, Dooku should just be capable of vaporising unprotected Twilek flesh and bone at his most powerful. No he didn't, so I'm afraid that hardly proves anything.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Exhausted yes, its quite obvious from his body language. This being a result of fighting Darth Sidious, who you've still yet to prove Dooku can match the power output of.

His heavy breathing is the result of fear, not exhaustion, lol. And unless Sidious was actively draining his powers, then it doesn't matter who Maul was fighting - it was still a five-minute duel.



Maul us going to overcome the pain of Dooku's Force Lightning? Forgive my disbelief:
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111220339/5341959-8404425868-48176.gif




So what you're saying is that Dooku can't shoot lightning at all, since the blast he unleashed at Ventress was instantanous. That's just blatantly false.

And far as I know, Ventress' injuries were inflicted by Dooku's lightning.



It certainly appears to be more destructive than Dooku's usual blasts aimed at multiple people. Looks like a storm to me.



The only time I've seen Maul fight back against Force lightning was against Mighella. If you believe that to be of any significance, then start proving her lightning can match Dooku's in how painful it is.

And even if we assume he'll be fighting back (which I doubt), he certainly won't be resisting a combination of Force lightning and Telekinesis. Dooku has proven himself an avid user of this combo, and with solely TK, has KO'd Obi-Wan, who has similar pain resistance to Maul. Maul isn't remaining conscious after being weakened by lightning and then smashed against the wall.



I doubt Maul could dodge Dooku, who has demonstrated the ability to launch bolts in all directions at once:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/3504246-7664108771-21511.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/3937577-a1te3.gif

And even make a Force Maelstrom:

He saw the blue shimmersilk move like a breeze as Zan Arbor took advantage of the distraction to dash for the entrance. Blue Force-lightning erupted in the darkness, a barrier shielding her from the others, giving her space to run.

-Jedi Quest: The Final Showdown

Even if Maul somehow dodges (which I doubt), so what? He's only prolonging the inevitable.

And deflect them with a Barrier? Lmao. I've asked twice in this thread to show me a defensive Force feat from Maul, and no one has done so.



That's just a bonus for Vos, then. Doesn't have anything to do with Maul, though.



What blows are you talking about? This is a Force-only fight, no unarmed combat. And as far as TK or lightning is concerned:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/3938836-9459830970-39376.gif
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/3937585-a1tij.gif

Maul isn't going to do jack shit.

Dooku will most certainly dominate Maul. This is an accurate depiction of the "fight" between these two:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/3938837-a2ep1.gif

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No he didn't, so I'm afraid that hardly proves anything.

Maul lived because Maul had sufficient time to escape the harrowing blast, so um afraayed this hardly prooves anything.

Good, gooood... Dooku is dominating Maul on the forums

This is either Maul's lowest, or one of the Count's highest days. It'd be a shame if it's the former, but I'd love the latter

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Maul lived because Maul had sufficient time to escape the harrowing blast, so um afraayed this hardly prooves anything. He was engulfed by the blast friend, hence the application of Force barrier.

Originally posted by MythLord
Good, gooood... Dooku is dominating Maul on the forums

This is either Maul's lowest, or one of the Count's highest days. It'd be a shame if it's the former, but I'd love the latter
Now we only need Yaddle and Jacen wank

Jacen's High Days are slowly returning... Yaddle may never experience them, however.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
He was engulfed by the blast friend, hence the application of Force barrier.

Frieynd, being on the sideline of a poxy explosion is quite different from being at the center of it. Mere meters can be the difference between demolished concrete and broken windows.

Good thing he was at the centre of the explosion then.

I would hit you over the head with my copy of Shadow Hunter if I actually had one, and it didn't exist as a txt file on my laptop. Nevertheless, well done for proving yourself the King (or should I say queen) of bad interpretations.



So Maul had already leapt away from the platform before the device explosed and was quite clearly further away from the blast center than his adversary. Back to drawing board, and more importantly, back to the closet.

Comprehension skills indeed, and no, this Queen is not impressed, let me highlight the parts you missed:And let's go a little further and put this into contexts:In case you're still struggling, Boondara compromised the power cell core before Maul could react. Afterwards Maul leaps away as the power cell is exploding. And given that the explosion vaporised Boondara in a microsecond we should assume it reached Maul nigh instaneously as well i.e. he was at the center of the explosion. So I'll be sticking around honey.

Originally posted by Beniboybling

In case you're still struggling, Boondara compromised the power cell core before Maul could react.

Wrong again Beni, the explosion happened after Maul had lept away and not before. Bondara compromising the cell core still gives maul enough time to get away fast enough before the explosion - which does not have to happen in the exact moment bondora stabs the device. We see that even in the movies, applications of Force Speed will allow them to escape that and more. Microsecond reaction-time and perceptive scope isn't a new concept for either Sith or Jedi.



Bondara was at the center of it, Maul wasn't. There is no interpretation in the world that can repudiate that. Maul is good enough in perceptive ability to see the explosion coming towards him, which means he's good enough to move away from it when the blast reaches him. That is the text as it's presented. From another angle, one could ask why Maul would move away in the first place if he was confident enough to tank the explosion at it's center, and we find that your idea of the events as it happens, don't make any sense.

Once again your comprehension skills fail you, I never said the power cell exploded before Maul leapt away, but rather it exploded simultaneously with Maul's attempt to escape the explosion. An explosion that was moving at speeds far beyond what Maul should realistically be capable of evading. Your attempt to compound reaction speed with speed of movement being a moot point for obvious reasons.

And I really needn't have to point out that when something explodes, the smart idea is to move away from the explosion, but apparently so.

Meh, Maul was already off the platform and in mid-air. He wasn't in the center of the explosion and was likely just tossed by it. He gets some props for minimising the damage but it's hardly stellar.

Maul.

Quanchi come defend your idol!

Originally posted by Nephthys
Meh, Maul was already off the platform and in mid-air. He wasn't in the center of the explosion and was likely just tossed by it. He gets some props for minimising the damage but it's hardly stellar. The landing platform was tiny, 10x15 meters, so the fact that he was off of it does not mean he escaped the center of the explosion.

It's also stated that Boondara's padawan, who was in a skycar 10 meters beneath the platform, would have herself been killed by the blast if not for the platform itself (and even the is knocked off the skycar that almost crashes). So it's radius was evidently considerable.

10x15 meters isn't tiny, lol.

If he's jumping away from it, its easier for him to allow the force of the explosion to toss him away instead of envelop him.

I have nothing to say but that the text, quite literally, disagrees with your opinion on the matter. Shall we look again.




Maul gained distance from the explosion - there is no denying that fact. Suck it up. So there are two logical conclusions to draw from 1) There is some elapsed time between Bondara's blade hitting whatever fuel powers the device, and the explosion of said device which would give Maul mere moments to reach a safer distance. 2) That Maul outpaced the explosion as it happened with a short burst of Force speed. Maul had already lept from the platform before the explosion could reach him, so there is no other explanation. Wether you think Maul can not realistically move that fast or not, is moot.




If maul can use the Force in a manner that allows him to percieve such a short time-ellipse, then he could probably augment his muscles in a manner that allows him to match that speed, all else being equal. Got any other ideas?



Concession accepted.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The landing platform was tiny, 10x15 meters,


Ten or Fifteen meters is more than enough distance to mean the difference between a fried skull to merely broken bones and damaged organs. Thank you for providing me that information.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Maul gained distance from the explosion - there is no denying that fact. Suck it up. So there are two logical conclusions to draw from 1) There is some elapsed time between Bondara's blade hitting whatever fuel powers the device, and the explosion of said device which would give Maul mere moments to reach a safer distance. 2) That Maul outpaced the explosion as it happened with a short burst of Force speed. Maul had already lept from the platform before the explosion could reach him, so there is no other explanation. Wether you think Maul can not realistically move that fast or not, is moot. Christ, I'm aware Maul gained some distance from the explosion, but this does not mean he escape the full intensity of the blast from ultimately engulfing him. And his ability to percieve it expanding towards him does not preclude as much.

"Distance" being anywhere from a meter, to 10, and considering the explosion's nigh instantaneous nature, more likely to be the latter. The fact that it would have killed Darsha, who was herself ten meters from the platform, make it even more unlikely Maul escaped its deadly effects.Because muscles and synapses are equivalent, are you that retarded?Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Ten or Fifteen meters is more than enough distance to mean the difference between a fried skull to merely broken bones and damaged organs. Thank you for providing me that information. 10 by 15 meters is the size of the platform, not his distance from it lmao. The pointing being that if the platform is tiny one needn't leap far to get off it.

On the other hand we already know its killing force is at least 10 meters in radius.

Beni slicin' and dicin'.

Where were Maul's explosion-tanking Barriers when it came time to deflect Force Lightning? And even Kenobi has tanked explosions:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11126/111265303/4928044-valor+kenobi+tanks+several+explosions.gif

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11126/111265303/4928063-valor+survives+explosion+and+fall.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11126/111265303/4928033-untitled.gif

Didn't prevent Dooku from doing this:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/4421345-6669835845-y4Yag.gif

Dooku still dominates.

What? Kenobi's ability to endure explosions has no bearing on his ability to stop Dooku' ragdolling him. Go back to sleep, there will be plenty of time to embarrass yourself when I get to your post.

I assume this applies to Maul as well. Saying otherwise would be a double standard. So Maul's ability to tank explosions - his only notable defensive showing - has no bearing on his (in)ability to stop Dooku's TK. Good to know.

And Kenobi being completely knocked out by a simple Force throw spells certain doom for Maul.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Christ, I'm aware Maul gained some distance from the explosion

And this is the grand phenomena in argumentum dialect where the opponent contradicts previous statements he originally made for his case. In this instance Beni, your argument at this precise moement is inconsistent with statements and assertions made on the previous page. A little reminder of what those were.



- Beniboybling

Here you assert that Maul's attempt to escape the explosion happens at the same time as the explosion itself. You also assert that Maul should not be able to relistically move as fast as the explosion. So something is wrong here, Beni. If Maul's escape attempt and the explosion happen at the same time, then how can the explosion be moving at speeds far faster then what maul should be capable of, if Maul managed to reach some distance from it? The answer : it's impossible. So one way or another, this is a concession.



Yes it does, and even two or three meters can mean the difference between damaging steel structures, broken ribs and a stopped heart. Your original assertion was that Maul could protect himself from energy that vaporises flesh, so far, that it not true.



Distance being anywhere between 1 meter to 15 actually. And then you can considerer how many meters away he was from the platforms edge after he cleared it - probably about another two or three more meters. The most scientifically parsimonious measurement of deduction, is to take an average measurement and not a biased one. In this case we have a 15 by 10 meter platform, so that number should be around seven. Add another 2 meters for the distance he cleared the platform and we have 9 meters.



Perhaps you'd like to move those goalposts back? Seen as your original assertion was that Maul could protect himself from energy that vaporises human bodies and not simply "kill them". So what ? Are you now trying to prove why Maul can protect himself from something that would kill a human? much like every other Jedi in existance can? Cool story. How does this prevent him from getting 1 paneled by Dooku?



Neurons that link the spinal cord to the muscles can travel at speeds ranging from 70-120 meters per second. If he can use the Force to to process information at a superman rate, he could likely do the same for his legs. The process would be slower, but not by much.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Beni slicin' and dicin'.

Don't be annoying syndicate. Tell me, how can Beni be slicin & dicin, when he contradicted himself twice? By stating Maul couldn't have created any distance between himself and the explosion, to then admitting that he must have. And then by moving the goalposts. Stating that Maul protected himself from energy that would merely have killed Darsha Assant, from his original position that he could protect himself from energy that vaporised Anoon Bondara? No one should be getting any medals for proving that a Force user can protect themselves from attack that would normally kill someone. In this case, Maul's force barrier is less impressive than the Landing platform itself.

Originally posted by Azronger
I assume this applies to Maul as well. Saying otherwise would be a double standard. So Maul's ability to tank explosions - his only notable defensive showing - has no bearing on his (in)ability to stop Dooku's TK. Good to know. No, the ability to tank explosions has nothing to do with preventing ragdolling, well done for working out what nobody but yourself suggested.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No, the ability to tank explosions has nothing to do with preventing ragdolling, well done for working out what nobody but yourself suggested.

I never even suggested it in the first place, it was merely a remark on how you reduced Maul's already slim chances of resisting Dooku's telekinetic influence to zero.

You missed the point of my post. The point being that Kenobi was knocked out by it, not that he was ragdolled. Even if Dooku isn't ragdolling Maul (which I doubt he isn't), he could still knock him out with a simple Force Push - which is easier to do mid-combat than Grip - relatively easily, the result being this:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/4220910-e7pyp.gif

Beni taking major L's rite now...

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
And this is the grand phenomena in argumentum dialect where the opponent contradicts previous statements he originally made for his case. In this instance Beni, your argument at this precise moement is inconsistent with statements and assertions made on the previous page. A little reminder of what those were.

- Beniboybling

Here you assert that Maul's attempt to escape the explosion happens at the same time as the explosion itself. You also assert that Maul should not be able to relistically move as fast as the explosion. So something is wrong here, Beni. If Maul's escape attempt and the explosion happen at the same time, then how can the explosion be moving at speeds far faster then what maul should be capable of, if Maul managed to reach some distance from it? The answer : it's impossible. So one way or another, this is a concession.Because it exploded while Maul was attempting to escape, not before, or just as he was about to i.e. he had a head start on the explosion.

On the other hand, there remains no proof that Maul ultimately escaped the worse of it. But keep trying.Relative to the power of the blast, this explosion's killing radius evidently extending well beyond a few meters.But again, considering that the explosion was concurrent with Maul leaping from the platform, we've no reason to believe he actually cleared it in this manner before it caught up with him. We also know that the speeder they ended up backed up against was landed in haste, which makes it most likely to be situated at the edge of the platform, not the middle. Finally factoring in the increments he made in power post-TPM, this is a low-end showing, should shave off an additional meter or so. It had the ability to kill a Jedi, not a normal human being. And I'm pointing out that considering the killing radius of the blast, the idea that being a few meters from the point of origin would significantly diminish it is bullshit.So? This is all still bound up in response times, moving across a distance after your muscles have responded is an entirely different story that involves things like drag, gravity, distance and strength, you are familiar with those things yes?

Originally posted by Azronger
His heavy breathing is the result of fear, not exhaustion, lol. And unless Sidious was actively draining his powers, then it doesn't matter who Maul was fighting - it was still a five-minute duel.No he's exhausted, and was panting the moment Sidious broke the blade lock, before he started begging from his life. That's why Sidious won, because he lacked the energy to continue fighting. That much should be frikken obvious tbh.

And of course it matters, Maul is going to have to expend far more energy keeping up with Palpatine's strength and speed that anyone else, even Savage was left seriously fatigued after a brief bout with him. And Maul was ragdolled on top of this.Uh-huh, I'm looking under that hood friend and it's still not Dooku.All forms of lightning are instantaneous, Christ. That doesn't mean Dooku wasn't gathering his power before hand. In fact, Vos describes it as more powerful lightning than anything he's ever seen, despite the Count turning his lightning powers on Vos in their duel. So no, evidently it is nothing something he can pull off in a combat situation, else he would have.

As for Ventress' injuries, yes she had suffered some serious ones after being in a ship crash and having a building collapsed on her.More destructive? He killed a bunch of scrubs, hardly a high-end showing from the Count.I find the fact he's stronger and more durable than Savage to be more telling tbh. If Savage can tank five successive bursts of Dooku's lightning and still possess the power to ragdoll him and Ventress at once, a much more powerful Maul can take a few hits.

And overlooking the fact that Kenobi's pain resistance does not compare to Maul's in the slightest, it was not pain that KO'ed Kenobi but trauma, a level of which Dooku is not capable of inflicting on a considerably more powerful opponent.

More to the point Dooku's TK/Force lighting combo also failed to put down Savage:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4625185-savage+tanks+lightning+01.gif

In fact, even Dooku and Ventress using "all the power" they possessed was only enough to put an enraged Savage down for a few seconds.

So no, I'm afraid you're bullshitting. There's a surprise.
In neither of those examples is Dooku launching lightning omni-directionally, merely at multiple targets. And of course the more Dooku spreads his lightning, the weaker it would become. Case in point, none of those he struck in that second example were KO'ed.

I'm also failing to see how that's a Force maelstrom, you'll have to elaborate.No he's forcing Dooku to uselessly expend his resources, while he himself does something called fight back. But perhaps you'd forgotten that this fight goes both ways.I provided an example above, the ability to withstand a vaporising explosion is ample proof he can shield against Dooku's lightning, which in fact has never vaporised anyone. But on the topic of absent showings, still not seeing any solid endurance feats from Dooku.
It demonstrates he's hardly as effective as you presume against Force users that rival his power, which Maul happens to be. Though this is rather ironic as you continue to use Sidious as proof of Dooku's capabilities.I wasn't suggesting unarmed combat, but Maul is still capable of inflicting blunt force trauma through the kind of telekinetic attacks that have blown away armies. And one-shotted Kenobi, collapsing a cave in the process:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/4817661-collapse+cave.gif

Or alternatively by injuring him with debris. Dooku's ability to deflect his own lightning and some sand notwithstanding.Sure, sadly spamming irrelevant gifs doesn't actually constitute an argument. It just makes you look stupid. Though the funny thing is that particular attack didn't even fully KO Anakin, how embarrassing.

Originally posted by Azronger
I never even suggested it in the first place, it was merely a remark on how you reduced Maul's already slim chances of resisting Dooku's telekinetic influence to zero.

You missed the point of my post. The point being that Kenobi was knocked out by it, not that he was ragdolled. Even if Dooku isn't ragdolling Maul (which I doubt he isn't), he could still knock him out with a simple Force Push - which is easier to do mid-combat than Grip - relatively easily, the result being this:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/4220910-e7pyp.gif You did, but I suppose you'd say that to hide the embarassment.

On the other hand Maul is far more powerful than Kenobi, and Dooku is far less powerful than Sidious. But I guess you forgot that.

Copied from the other thread:

BTW here is the delete scene I mentioned:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxrMEQlTMvs

Who else besides Maul has ever done that to Sidious?

Azronger's picture resizing capabilities have ruined this page.

edit : *the previous page.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No he's exhausted, and was panting the moment Sidious broke the blade lock, before he started begging from his life. That's why Sidious won, because he lacked the energy to continue fighting. That much should be frikken obvious tbh.

There goes Maul's chances of outlasting Dooku, then.



Well, yeah. Too bad Maul isn't actually keeping up with a fully unleashed Sidious, though. And I'm pretty sure Maul is giving it his all in every one of his duels against Kenobi, the man he hates the most in the galaxy, yet he was never exhausted. It was fear that was fear that was the cause of his panting, not exhaustion.

But regardless of which you believe - whether he was exhausted or not - Maul still gets the short end of the stick. If he was exhausted, he just proved his inability to wage battles longer than five minutes, which prevents him from outlasting - and beating - Dooku. If he wasn't exhausted, he just proved his inability to endure the pain of actual Sith lightning, which renders him helpless against Dooku.



Please tell me where you see exhaustion on Savage's face.



Relevant how? Unless you're implying being smashed a couple of times on a wall and the floor actually furthered Maul's exhaustion to the point where it affected his ability to tank Force lightning. Dooku stomps harder each minute.



You're missing the point (again). It's obvious Sidious' lightning is more powerful than Dooku, but this isn't about how powerful the lightning is, it is about how painful it is.

With Sidious deliberately saying "I'm not going to kill you.", it's only logical the lightning he's using isn't lethal. Unless you manage to pull a quote which declares Sidious the most painful Sith Lord in history, there's no reason to assume Sidious' non-lethal lightning is more painful than Dooku's.



Dooku couldn't have possibly been gathering his power while unconcsious.



That's a bonus for Dooku, then.



Remember what I said about not factoring in the plot?



Mind posting the quotes?

But regardless, although Dooku wasn't at his most powerful, either, so it balances out.



What I meant is that as opposed to Dooku usually directly aiming for his targets, and based on the blue background, the lightning was everywhere. That's what a Force Lightning Storm is.



Since when is Maul's pain threshold higher than Savage's? You mentioned something about Maul remaining conscious in space and Savage didn't. But that's not a showing of pain tolerance.



I'd say enduring months of torture while deprived of food, drink, and sleep and having your Force connection hampered, while having maggots feasting on your innards, and still continuing to fight, compares quite admirably to anything Maul has been through.

Note: I'm not certain of the validity of the feat, since I heard it in an EvanNova video. Anyone got the scans/quotes to prove/disprove this?



I'm not an expert on these types of injuries, but I've never heard of someone getting knocked out in the spine. A blow to the head would be different, but a blow to the spine is going to only cause paralysis, and the one case I do know of was with Daniel Radcliffe's stunt double, who kept commenting specifically about the pain. Kenobi wasn't even paralyzed, so the logical conclusion is that he was knocked out by pain. Maul will be as well.



Good for Savage, then.



That's the point. Wherever Maul dodges, there's already another blast waiting for him. And I've not seen proof that Maul can dodge Force lightning in the first place.



Which is irrelevant when even the weakest of the weakest of lightning still put Maul on his knees. Dooku can use that momentary vulnerability to fire more potent charges.



Sidious' description of Force Maelstrom:
"Already, I have perfected the Force maelstrom, which creates an invulnerable energy sphere to block incoming attacks while bombarding enemies with debris and electrifying them with bolts of lightning."

The text mentions a barrier and lightning, a Force Maelstrom.



As if Dooku lacks resources to the point where a few missed blasts would be exhausting him. And still waiting for proof Maul can dodge lightning.



I'll leave disproving that feat to Ziggy. Anyway, even if he can shield himself from lightning, that - as you yourself have admitted - isn't the case for TK, where Maul has shown absolutely nothing resembling notable defense. And why should I start delivering endurance feats when Maul isn't going to land a single blow on Dooku?



What exactly are you using to measure this power? I've already shown scans of a Dooku drained to the brink of death outclassing Maul in raw power. A full-powered Dooku will discard Maul like a wet cloth.



Correction: I used Sidious as proof of Maul's incapabilities, and the second time just as a visual representation of what Dooku will do to Maul.



Not impressed. Why? Well, here's another one of Maul's feats, which appeared to be done with quite a bit more strain that the cave one:
http://i58.tinypic.com/15egt1d.jpg

Another Jedi, K'Kruhk has accomplished something similar:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/4692947-k%27kruhk+brings+down+ship+2.png

Quinlan Vos has dominated K'Kruhk telekintically:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/3846855-vs+k%27kruhk5.png

And Dooku in turn ragdolls Vos:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/3544056-2151173-new_picture__12_.jpg

So I'm not seeing how Maul's Force Pushes are doing absolutely anything to the Count unless the latter is caught off-guard. Dooku on the other hand will snap Maul's neck with a gesture.

Oh, and Dooku can also dodge Maul's Pushes:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/4985653-force+jumpss.gif



Which Dooku could simply dodge, or take into his own Force Grip and hurl back at Maul, or shoot a bolt of lightning before Maul has a chance to do anything.