Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

*In Character
*Legends only
*All Characters are in their prime
*Force only

Vader 10/10.

Originally posted by JKBart
Vader 10/10.

Vader laughs at this clown and ragdolls him

Ragnos turns him into tavion and wins without much difficulty

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Ragnos turns him into tavion and wins without much difficulty
How? Vader has better feats, and we can't assume, that the gap between Ragnos and Sadow is big enough, to give Marka an edge.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
How? Vader has better feats, and we can't assume, that the gap between Ragnos and Sadow is big enough, to give Marka an edge.

Vader has more feats and the gap between Ragnos and Sadow is enough that Kressh thought Ragnos would destroy Sadow as a spirit.

More and better. And? 1. Thats only Kressh opinion. 2. So would Vader.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
More and better. And? 1. Thats only Kressh opinion. 2. So would Vader.

Those are all nice opinions based on virtually nothing.

Are we seriously doubting that Naga Sadow is ahead of Vader, by a lot? The guy can throw pbricks:

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5439885-throwing+bricks.jpg

Like Kresshs
Also, I'll search for Vaders feats, later.

Originally posted by MythLord
Are we seriously doubting that Naga Sadow is ahead of Vader, by a lot? The guy can throw pbricks:

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5439885-throwing+bricks.jpg
Yeah, he could also replicate Vaders Cathedral feat, with ease.

Originally posted by MythLord
Are we seriously doubting that Naga Sadow is ahead of Vader, by a lot? The guy can throw pbricks:

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5439885-throwing+bricks.jpg

Yea. A create technology to blow up stars, create illusions of armies, etc. "Cherry picking much"?

Also nobody here actually said Sadow>Vader. Quit getting so emotional

Yeah, Vader.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Yea. A create technology to blow up stars, create illusions of armies, etc. "Cherry picking much"?

While his powers were amplified "a thousand fold", i.e. a thousand times more powerful than he actually is. Hyperbolic, yes, but still vastly empowered and with concentration.



Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Also nobody here actually said Sadow>Vader. Quit getting so emotional

Then Marka "crushing him" cuz Kressh said so is irrelevant.

Yes, Marka as a spirit crushing Sadow is "irrelevant".

From the perspective of someone who basically deep-throats Ragnos and desperately hates Sadow. The fact that Naga is later proclaimed the MVP of his day shouldn't be taken into account either, huh?

Originally posted by MythLord
From the perspective of someone who basically deep-throats Ragnos and desperately hates Sadow. The fact that Naga is later proclaimed the MVP of his day shouldn't be taken into account either, huh?



By MVP, you mean simply being the DLOTS that he lost once he left the sith empire to go to war? Swing and a miss

Which obviously means he's worthy in following in Marka's footsteps. I'd call this a home run, since you've yet to tag me on anything.

Originally posted by MythLord
Which obviously means he's worthy in following in Marka's footsteps. I'd call this a home run, since you've yet to tag me on anything. You're right, as usual thanks for helping the opposition make their arguments stronger

Either way tbh.

I'll take the most powerful sith lord at the apex of sith knowledge and power over someone who really just has the raw power to compensate for his lack of variety as far as force techniques go.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
I'll take the most powerful sith lord at the apex of sith knowledge and power over someone who really just has the raw power to compensate for his lack of variety as far as force techniques go.
Apex of Sith Knowlege? That would be the Late Banites.(And Vitate) And power? Again, Banites, and Vitates Empire impressed me more as well.
That argument is ridicolous, variety normally isn't a factor in a battle. Vader has shown more Force techniques as Ragnos, btw.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Apex of Sith Knowlege? That would be the Late Banites.(And Vitate) And power? Again, Banites, and Vitates Empire impressed me more as well.
That argument is ridicolous, variety normally isn't a factor in a battle. Vader has shown more Force techniques as Ragnos, btw.

Apex of Sith knowledge. Hence the Golden Age of the Sith. Late Banites? LOL. The late Banites distributed the dark side between two individuals instead of diluting it and did include more powerful individuals as far as quality over quantity is concerned, but they didn't have nearly as much information to go on as the Golden Age. I've already made this argument in the other subforum when the discussion was focused on whether newer or older characters had more knowledge.

As far as what Vader's shown, he's shown the basic force techniques. The argument isn't ridiculous because for most of the cases in the mythos, more knowledge has equated to more power.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Apex of Sith knowledge. Hence the Golden Age of the Sith. Late Banites? LOL. The late Banites distributed the dark side between two individuals instead of diluting it and did include more powerful individuals as far as quality over quantity is concerned, but they didn't have nearly as much information to go on as the Golden Age. I've already made this argument in the other subforum when the discussion was focused on whether newer or older characters had more knowledge.

As far as what Vader's shown, he's shown the basic force techniques. The argument isn't ridiculous because for most of the cases in the mythos, more knowledge has equated to more power.
Why should it be named The Golden age, because of Knowledge? Late Banites had nearly all Sith Holocrons and gained much more knowledge in nearly 1000 years.
What has Ragnos shown, besides the typical force techniques?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Why should it be named The Golden age, because of Knowledge? Late Banites had nearly all Sith Holocrons and gained much more knowledge in nearly 1000 years.
What has Ragnos shown, besides the typical force techniques?

Nearly all the holocrons? There were no "all the holocrons" for them to have. They had whatever wasn't destroyed over the thousands of years. Most of the knowledge was destroyed after the Great Hyperspace War. So no, they couldn't have more knowledge if they had barely a fraction of the knowledge contained during the Golden Age.

As far as force techniques for Ragnos, we haven't seen him alive yet. But I'll grant him a victory when he's the most powerful sith during the most powerful time period of the sith.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
You're right, as usual thanks for helping the opposition make their arguments stronger

Not sure how that makes your argument stronger. It completely negates the idea that Marka can "crush" Naga Sadow, but you did always have trouble reading.

Originally posted by MythLord
Not sure how that makes your argument stronger. It completely negates the idea that Marka can "crush" Naga Sadow, but you did always have trouble reading. for someone who always helps the opposition, its amusing you criticize someone's reading

I have no idea how I helped the opposition in this case; you're kinda just spamming the same thing over again without any reasoning besides delusional/wishful thinking.

Your concession is accepted.

Originally posted by MythLord
While his powers were amplified "a thousand fold", i.e. a thousand times more powerful than he actually is.


Shit son, do you have the actual quote for that?

Originally posted by MythLord
I have no idea how I helped the opposition in this case; you're kinda just spamming the same thing over again without any reasoning besides delusional/wishful thinking.

Your concession is accepted.

Ah thats when i know i won this argument, the moment you use "concession" and "accepted" in the same sentence. Hold your head up, you'll win one eventually

So you take the concession? Good, good.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Shit son, do you have the actual quote for that?

I was in Book of the Sith. I'll PM it to ya, if I find it. It is hyperbole, probably.

Originally posted by MythLord
So you take the concession? Good, good.

like i said, that was easy. Debates with you usually are.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
like i said, that was easy. Debates with you usually are.
You usually lose these debates, tbh. Lol.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
You usually lose these debates, tbh. Lol.

Not at all. You and myth are usually in the same boat so I can understand where you are coming from.

Tbh, our debates are usually Jman+You against Myth and me. So, yeah...

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Tbh, our debates are usually Jman+You against Myth and me. So, yeah... It's slightly more people than that. You two usually find yourselves on the losing end but instead of conceding, you'll continue to post until everyone else gets tired, then declare victory. It's called the quan method of debating.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
like i said, that was easy. Debates with you usually are.

Yup. I mean, it's just me, everyone's friend. It is rather easy to concede to me.

Which more?
Ziggy at some point, Neph in the Valk debate and Azronger at the beginning. I probably miss some, tho.
I am interested what Nova, Ant and co, say to our debates.

Nova thinks Ziggy and WS are just hilarious distractions, Ant isn't fond of either, if I recall correctly(definitely not Ziggs), Azronger generally agrees with us, Neph doesn't but he plays Devil's Advocate for TOR.

It's Jman, Ziggy and Beefy... two scrubs and a troll. mmm

Versus two children without intelligence and self awareness? I'll take that all day

Funny thing is, those "children" still wreck you.

Originally posted by MythLord
Funny thing is, those "children" still wreck you. And i rest my case about the lack of intelligence AND self awareness. Too easy

Originally posted by MythLord
Nova thinks Ziggy and WS are just hilarious distractions, Ant isn't fond of either, if I recall correctly(definitely not Ziggs), Azronger generally agrees with us, Neph doesn't but he plays Devil's Advocate for TOR.

It's Jman, Ziggy and Beefy... two scrubs and a troll. mmm
Jman is okay, and Neph is good, imo. Don't know about MS :/ Sometimes I begin to lik him/her, and then (s)he responds....

So... another concession, Beefy? Good.

Mango is the most eloquent debater on this entire board. No one should be taking shots at him.

Originally posted by MythLord
So... another concession, Beefy? Good.

Yup. Reducing your argument to dust and/or having you do it for me=accepting concession. Like i said, too easy

How it would be if we debate again?
Beefy, I am stll waiting for a answer, why Onimis biggest strenght is outside of the force.

He's a fairly capable warrior but that's about it.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
He's a fairly capable warrior but that's about it.
He is one of the strongest force User in the mythos, mastered an Art of Small far better than Vergere, who couldn't be sensed by Luke, ragdolled Jaina IIRC and TPed Shimrra, the by far strongest Vong-whiche are usually immune to Force Attacks, bar lightning.

And shook a large-hill-sized citadel while simultaneously hiding his Force signature from Luke, TPing Shimrra and holding Shimrra in place...

He's not one of the strongest in the mythos. He ragdolled a teenage jaina. He wss one of the only force using vong because of his implants, granting him power over all other vong. Luke couldn't sense him because he had not yet discovered vongsense.

Originally posted by MythLord
And shook a large-hill-sized citadel while simultaneously hiding his Force signature from Luke, TPing Shimrra and holding Shimrra in place...
IIRC he also made an very big TK attack at the beginning of his fight with Jacen.

Nothing he has done would put him anywhere near valkorion.

Yeah. And Onimi is certainly one of the strongest in the mythos.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
He's not one of the strongest in the mythos. He ragdolled a teenage jaina. He wss one of the only force using vong because of his implants, granting him power over all other vong. Luke couldn't sense him because he had not yet discovered vongsense.
NJO Jaina is still extremely impressive, lol.
He TPed an TP resistant being, so...
No, he used Art of the Small. It was directly stated in Text.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
NJO Order is still extremely impressive, lol.
He TPed an TP resistant being, so...
No, he used Art of the Small. It was directly stated in Text. What is stated exactly? The fact that he was the only force user in the entire species doesn't indicate anything other than an advantage. Just like in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

That he used Art of the small.
That isn't the impressive thing, the impressive thing is, that he TPed an TP-resistant being.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
That he used Art of the small.
That isn't the impressive thing, the impressive thing is, that he TPed an TP-resistant being. Who is the tp resistant being? And how would that make him among the strongest in the mythos? He's nowhere near top level.

Originally posted by JKBart
Vader 10/10.

Shimrra, like said often enough.
YV have a force resistance. Shimrra was also the guy who has nearly beaten Luke.

A lot of characters have beaten luke. I'd be more impressed if he didn't have the distinct advantage of existing outside the force. He also didn't nearly beat luke, he simply gave him a good fight.

The last time an serious Luke lost, was in JA IIRC. He has dominated Luke. in sabers. He would've killed him, if Luke didn't TKed his Saber. So, Shimrras existence outside of the force was the reason for his Loss.

So he gave luke a good fight but lost DESPITE existing outside of the force. So you've proven that he's above average.

Luke was also exhausted per the text by the time he and Shrimrra fought.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
So he gave luke a good fight but lost DESPITE existing outside of the force. So you've proven that he's above average.
He nearly killed him. He lost because he existed outside of the force. Please read mypost, before you respond.
Also, you don't have proven, that Valkorion or anywhere is anywhere near Onimi/Vader or so, you just said: "not near Valkorion" or badeless assumptions, like that the Golden Age of the Sith=their Time of their greatest Knowledge and power.
I am now pissed off, I had a bad day, and that didn't help.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Luke was also exhausted per the text by the time he and Shrimrra fought.
Yeah, he was, still very, very good. Could see Shimrra being ~Caedus Level.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Tbh, our debates are usually Jman+You against Myth and me. So, yeah... No, you sit on the sidelines and occasionally suck Myth's dick when he needs it, whenever he needs it, then try to debate and fail miserably, even admitting that we'd crush you in a one-on-one debate :/

Originally posted by Jmanghan
No, you sit on the sidelines and occasionally suck Myth's dick when he needs it, whenever he needs it, then try to debate and fail miserably, even admitting that we'd crush you in a one-on-one debate :/
Lol. It give enough therads wher I alone debate you/Beefy. Look at this therad, lmfao. And when did I admit that? I admited that someone like Skillz would crush me, not you. Also, In many therads I can't domanything noteworthy(like you two in a whole therad), as Myth just solo'ed you.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Lol. It give enough therads wher I alone debate you/Beefy. Look at this therad, lmfao. And when did I admit that? I admited that someone like Skillz would crush me, not you. Also, In many therads I can't domanything noteworthy(like you two in a whole therad), as Myth just solo'ed you. Sorry, I don't understand gibberish.

Yeah, I am tired and sit on my Mobile Phone. But you should be able to read that: "And when did I admit that? I admited that someone like Skillz would crush me, not you"