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Wasn't the HoT already considered the most powerful Jedi alive by the end of Act II?

Originally posted by darthbane77
Wasn't the HoT already considered the most powerful Jedi alive by the end of Act II? Idk, I haven't gotten that far into the story yet.

Yeah HOT

The HoT was considered the most powerful Jedi alive by the end of the prologue. Satele confirms it at the end of Act I.

Satele

Originally posted by Nephthys
The HoT was considered the most powerful Jedi alive by the end of the prologue. Satele confirms it at the end of Act I.

Probably in the same context as Anakin being the most powerful Jedi as of RotS.

Hardly. The meaning of the quotes are clear.

Just like Anakin's supremacy quotes in RotS? Raw power =/= actualized power.

It doesn't just say power, its stuff like "strongest", "greatest", "without equal" and "greatest warrior".

All of which Anakin has too, lol. Would you like me to show you the quotes?

Originally posted by SunRazer
All of which Anakin has too, lol. Would you like me to show you the quotes? So, Satele, the strongest Jedi alive, proclaims that the HoT is now the strongest Jedi alive as of Act I?

I'm pretty sure her word, considering her OWN power, means something.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It doesn't just say power, its stuff like "strongest", "greatest", "without equal" and "greatest warrior".

LOL Anakin literally has every single one of those.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
LOL Anakin literally has every single one of those. Is it referring to his power at the time, or what he could be?

As I recall Anakin's stuff is clearly about potential or its merely about him out of his generation. Also Yoda exists as a clear contradiction. That isn't the case for the Hero, and several of his quotes come from his competition. It can hardly be argued that Satele is greater than them when she herself admits inferiority or when people suggest the Hero is the best right in front of her.

Nothing about the quotes suggest they're about potential in the slightest. Its a useless line of thought.

Regardless, suggesting that Satele is stronger than Act II Hero is retarded.

Originally posted by Nephthys
As I recall Anakin's stuff is clearly about potential or its merely about him out of his generation. Also Yoda exists as a clear contradiction. That isn't the case for the Hero, and several of his quotes come from his competition. It can hardly be argued that Satele is greater than them when she herself admits inferiority or when people suggest the Hero is the best right in front of her.

Nothing about the quotes suggest they're about potential in the slightest. Its a useless line of thought.

Regardless, suggesting that Satele is stronger than Act II Hero is retarded. Tbh it isn't retarded if we look at only feats.

All accolades by Act II considered though, Hero wins.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It doesn't just say power, its stuff like "strongest", "greatest", "without equal" and "greatest warrior".

The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace. He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it.

mmm

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace. He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it.

mmm

However, its different when the person who's observed another's Jedi's power and is like "Nah, I lose, GG. You're better then me."

Like Mace Windu.

But really, lol @character opinions being more reliable than oou statements.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Like Mace Windu.

But really, lol @character opinions being more reliable than oou statements. If a character sees another character, and says that they are better then them, that should be MORE then enough clarification that they are, you can't get much better then them.

Satele knows how good she is, but she obviously thinks the HoT as of Act I is better.

Unless you're implying Satele doesn't realize how powerful she is.

Basically, shes seen the stuff shes done, compared it to the HoT, and straight decided that he's better.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The most powerful Jedi of his generation.

Stopped reading.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Like Mace Windu.

But really, lol @character opinions being more reliable than oou statements.

The Hero was the strongest on a team comprised of the strongest, most powerful Jedi alive. Satele wasn't even a member, lol. OOU source.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Stopped reading. His generation meaning the CW Era.

Nope.

She said he was the most promising student in generations, and wasn't said to be the "greatest" until act III

Originally posted by Tondemonai
She said he was the most promising student in generations, and wasn't said to be the "greatest" until act III

When in act III?

If its near the beginning then Lord Scourge is likely still above her, as the HoT and Lord Scourge fought to a stalemate/standstill.

Edit: Wrong Thread.

I'd still argue End of Act II is above Satele.

It was after he fought Tol braga and before attacking Kaas iirc, so near the end.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
It was after he fought Tol braga and before attacking Kaas iirc, so near the end. That makes this hard to judge again, then.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Stopped reading.

Stopping your reading right before the critical part is a great way to dismiss quotes. And show how stupid you are.

The only stupid thing would be taking that quote remotely serious, lol. Wank Anakin in some other thread, he has nothing to do with this. You want to second-quess every quote referring to power and strength? You're gonna be at it for a while.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
She said he was the most promising student in generations, and wasn't said to be the "greatest" until act III

100% wrong. Most of the Hero's quotes come from Act I or early Act II.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=586426&pagenumber=1

Originally posted by Nephthys
The only stupid thing would be taking that quote remotely serious, lol. Wank Anakin in some other thread, he has nothing to do with this. You want to second-quess every quote referring to power and strength? You're gonna be at it for a while.

I'm not here to wank Anakin. I'm here to determine any difference between the HoT's quotes and Anakin's. And so far, there hasn't been anything different to, say, Mace's quote about Anakin perhaps being the most powerful Jedi alive. And the MoRotS quote about Anakin being the most powerful Jedi that ever existed.



The only applicable Act I/early Act II quote in that thread was Satele claiming that the HoT was the greatest warrior in the Order. That doesn't even refer to power. Things like Orgus Din or Bengel Morr referring to how strong the Force is in the HoT are identical to the most powerful quotes for Anakin, since it's obviously potential there as well.

Otherwise, there's Scourge, but that'd be Act III.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I'm not here to wank Anakin. I'm here to determine any difference between the HoT's quotes and Anakin's. And so far, there hasn't been anything different to, say, Mace's quote about Anakin perhaps being the most powerful Jedi alive. And the MoRotS quote about Anakin being the most powerful Jedi that ever existed.

And like I already pointed out, the difference is that the HoT doesn't have a Yoda to make his shit blatantly a load of bunk. Her quotes aren't prefaced on them only applying to her own generation. Theres absolutely nothing indicating its referring to potential in there, unlike with Anakin where its always a glaring factor. Nor are they just flowery hyperbolic nonsense like 75% of the RotS novel is.

But sure, if you want to question whether every statement about power is an Anakin, go right ahead. I'm sure everyone will find that a totally not tedious, moronic discussion.

Originally posted by SunRazer
The only applicable Act I/early Act II quote in that thread was Satele claiming that the HoT was the greatest warrior in the Order. That doesn't even refer to power. Things like Orgus Din or Bengel Morr referring to how strong the Force is in the HoT are identical to the most powerful quotes for Anakin, since it's obviously potential there as well.

Otherwise, there's Scourge, but that'd be Act III.

There are more quotes on pages 2 and 3. And Scourge says that in Act II.

"Warren was the order's greatest soldier in his day--now that role falls to you." - Tol Braga (start of Act II)

"We've lost one of our noblest Masters, but in his place stands a Jedi without equal." - Satele Shan (Act 1 ending)

"But he also forged our greatest weapon against the darkness." - Satele Shan (Act 1 ending)

"His (Vitiate) power is growing. Only you can stop him." - Orgus Din (ghost)

"I'm glad to finally meet you in person. They say you're the greatest Jedi the order has seen in generations." - Tol Braga (Act II start)

Orgus claiming that the Force is stronger in the HoT than in anybody else he's seen in decades is obviously potential. Same with Bengel Morr.

Your other quotes were "greatest soldier" ones and some pretty ambiguous ones about greatness, and they weren't Act I either unless I'm forgetting something.

They aren't (obvious). Your conformation bias is just making you interpret them that way. You could say the same thing about countless statements if you wanted.

I've written when the statements take place. By the start of Act II I mean before you even land on Balmorra (the first planet of the Act).

So trainee HoT is already more powerful than Satele? lmfao

I posted before your edit. My point stands anyway.

I didn't say it was accurate, I merely said they were "considered" the most powerful. It could be, though. By the end of Act I however, it becomes inarguably true.

If you think so.

Anoon Bondara was considered the best duelist in the Order, and even by Masters.

There's really nothing here that's distinct from Mace and others calling Anakin the most powerful Jedi alive.

Frickin' Yoda didn't say it though. haermm Satele herself says the Hero is the best. The Hero's own competition says they're the best.

He isn't though, because Yoda exists. In context, its obvious the quotes about Anakin refer to his potential and raw power. Theres no context in this case. And once again, you could apply this logic to any statement of power in the mythos. Maybe Sidious isn't the most powerful Sith ever, he's merely potentially the most powerful, lol.

And so far I've only seen the RotS quote. Clearly not enough.

The quotes seem to put Anakin above even Yoda, in fact. Of course, the RotS novel, at different points, says Anakin, Mace and Yoda are the strongest.

The context here is the HoT just arriving on Tython. Do you seriously believe that he's stronger than Satele at this time? How can you call Anakin being above Yoda ridiculous but not this?

Mace says it, Nick Gillard says it (with relation to him being a warrior, which your only concrete HoT quotes are), and the Making of RotS says it too:







It's safe to say that Anakin's abilities depend solely on his state of mind and that he indeed can rival or at least approach the likes of Yoda and Sidious in an ideal state.

Do you have Kyp Durron high, by any chance?

Says he's not wanking Anakin, is blatantly just wanking Anakin. Just SunRazer things.

And that's exactly why the RotS quotes shouldn't be taken seriously. The statements about the Hero are far more credible.

She's just about the leave Tython actually. And Satele does say that she isn't the warrior she used to be. Regardless I'm merely arguing that it's certain by the end of Act 1. Whether or not it's true before that is doubtable. But not impossible given how much of a prodigy the Hero is and that they outperform everyone on a consistent basis. It is less ridiculous than Anakin > Yoda because we have no clear contradiction in the Hero's case where Yoda is simply better than Anakin at everything by a large margin.

Don't make me repeat myself please. If you want to wank Anakin, as you are blatantly only discussing this so you can do so, do it elsewhere. I will not play that game.

You're still dodging my point about that you can apply this logic to every character in Star Wars. Answer that and I'll answer your question about Durron.

Anakin's got just as many quotes for supremacy as Yoda does, tbh. And he's on the same level per Gillard, but I digress.

HoT's statements are far more credible? His being a better warrior than Satele doesn't mean anything with regard to the Force, and obviously Orgus/Bengel's comments on Tython refer to potential. The other comments about greatness could easily refer to nobleness and heroics, and at least one of them does, lol.

Apply what to every character? It's usually pretty distinguishable if they're talking about potential.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Anakin's got just as many quotes for supremacy as Yoda does, tbh. And he's on the same level per Gillard, but I digress.

HoT's statements are far more credible? His being a better warrior than Satele doesn't mean anything with regard to the Force, and obviously Orgus/Bengel's comments on Tython refer to potential. The other comments about greatness could easily refer to nobleness and heroics, and at least one of them does, lol.

Apply what to every character? It's usually pretty distinguishable if they're talking about potential.

Wank wank wank wank.

Morr says the Hero is stronger than any he's met. Not sure how that's obviously about potential. Not sure how Orgus' comment is about potential either when he says the Hero is stronger in the Force than he's seen in decades. The Hero's other quotes also obviously meant in a combative sense. Tol Braga is, for instance, talking about Warren Soderu's old prowess as a warrior when he says he used to be the greatest soldier, and now the Hero is instead. The rest are credited as a response for martial victories. You're also forgetting that you can be dark side and still get those quotes. Nobleness and heroics clearly aren't what they're talking about.

Apparently not for you. The quotes you're suggesting do so have nothing at all suggesting it.

Before I even begin, which Satele Shan are we using?

Originally posted by Dread Dark
Before I even begin, which Satele Shan are we using? Her latest iteration, TOR Satele.