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It would appear so:

"Dooku had been reckoned one of the foremost duellists in the Jedi Order, second only to Master Yoda."

-- The Official Star Wars Fact File #60

Is this the Canon one?

It has a mix of both canon and Legends in it, so Composite, I suppose.

Is this the Relaunched one, I mean?

We have evidence, that Dooku has grown between TPM and RotS, but no for Mace, iirc.
Nice found, btw. In which years was the fact file released?

It's either the old one, in 2003, in which case Mace's one is a retcon of this, since that one came in 2009.

Or it's the new one that came last year.

And Mace grew after Shatterpoint.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Is this the Relaunched one, I mean?

Yes, that one. I also posted it on your RT.
Time to enjoy Mace's tears.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
We have evidence, that Dooku has grown between TPM and RotS, but no for Mace, iirc.
Nice found, btw. In which years was the fact file released?

2015. So for now, Dooku has supremacy over Windu.

Originally posted by SunRazer
It's either the old one, in 2003, in which case Mace's one is a retcon of this, since that one came in 2009.

Or it's the new one that came last year.

And Mace grew after Shatterpoint.
This growth make him then equal with TPM Dooku, which is <RotS Tyranus

Also, Dooku's growth should logically be greater. He has more sources to draw from with regards to knowledge, had a longer time to grow, had more training in order to master another side of the Force and new fighting techniques, etc.

So Mace's growth by 19 BBY should be noticeable, but Dooku's should be even greater, especially when out of all of Yoda's students, Mace's learning curve is noted as being almost unparalleled... and the only other extremely noteworthy student Yoda had was Dooku.

Connect the dots people; Tyranus > Windu

Pretty sure everyone knows this quote ?

They're equal. Quotes can be given to both Mace and Dooku to show superiority.

And comparing feats? Dooku. He has beaten opponents, with which Mace had problems with ease.

Canon, Legends. ^

Originally posted by SeriousLogic
Pretty sure everyone knows this quote ?

Newly discovered.

Originally posted by SeriousLogic
They're equal. Quotes can be given to both Mace and Dooku to show superiority.

Most of the quotes that would support Mace were before Dooku was a concept, or have been retconned. Also, many sources note how Mace is perhaps Dooku's equal, or just on equal footing(i.e. in a similar tier). That does sorta imply Dooku's superiority.

Yeah Dooku has this, Mace fans enter damage control central.

Originally posted by MythLord
Newly discovered.



Most of the quotes that would support Mace were before Dooku was a concept, or have been retconned. Also, many sources note how Mace is perhaps Dooku's equal, or just on equal footing(i.e. in a similar tier). That does sorta imply Dooku's superiority.
But but wouldn't you rather them be equal
Quickly get rid of the quote!

Originally posted by SeriousLogic
Canon, Legends. ^
Legends/Composite Dooku's feats>Windus

Dooku has more exposure in both Legends and Canon. But still, I love them both so it doesn't really matter

Actually, this quote doesn't even say Dooku > Windu. It says Dooku >= Windu.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Actually, this quote doesn't even say Dooku > Windu. It says Dooku >= Windu.
But it debunked Mace>Dooku

Yes, that it did.

And solely feat based, Dooku is better, tbh.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
And solely feat based, Dokku is better, tbh. Yeah, I really like Dokku.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Yeah, I really like Dokku.
What do you mean?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
What do you mean? Last edited by Ursumeles on Today at 05:33 AM

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Last edited by Ursumeles on Today at 05:33 AM
I just fixed something

Originally posted by MythLord
It would appear so:

"Dooku had been reckoned one of the foremost duellists in the Jedi Order, second only to Master Yoda."

-- The Official Star Wars Fact File #60 So has Mace, what's new.

Mace was second only to Yoda on the Council, not in the entire Jedi Order. Or his accolades were before Dooku existed. Either way, the Count is better.

Friend, we just had a thread like this a few weeks ago in which the reverse was claimed. And at least that one wasn't an opinion.

But the Mace quote was older

Second only to means that you're only inferior to X. That doesn't mean you're automatically better than everyone else. Especially since Dooku and Mace have always been equals.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
But the Mace quote was older Doesn't matter.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Doesn't matter.
Newer sources>older

Even if that was the case there is no contradiction, Dooku being reckoned by some to be second only to Yoda doesn't change the reality that he was not.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Even if that was the case there is no contradiction, Dooku being reckoned by some to be second only to Yoda doesn't change the reality that he was not.
He isn't sub-Windu, tho

He's sub-Maul.

No. Anakin>Dooku>=Windu>Padawans>Maul

Mace, Dooku > Anakin. Mace is just a better version of Anakin.

Dooku's quote is newer, thus retconning Mace's. Dooku's learning curve/power increase is logically greater. He has better feats. And, most importantly, he's white.

Dooku wins.

Originally posted by MythLord
most importantly, he's white.
White privileged trash. Black lives matter, ****ing die you white male.

Hi, I'm White Man, and this is my privilege. After God knows how many centuries, you always know who is the superior race.

Dooku will always be inferior to his black better.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Mace will always be inferior to his white better.
Fixed

There's a canon quote from SW: Absolutely Everything You Need to Know, confirming Yoda feels Dooku was the greatest student of the Jedi, as he said in DR.

Don't have the book on me though for the exact quote.

Yoda also said Dooku would have been the greatest Jedi had he stayed. So had he stayed longer and then turned to the dark side he could be > everyone?

One of the Legends Insiders claim that Dooku would've rivalled Yoda if he had stayed.

So if he stays with the Jedi he gets better but if he leaves he also improves. Wat

The "rewards" of being a Jedi are supposed to be greater but take longer to attain. Dooku probably was close to achieving enlightenment or whatever but decided to join the dark side as a "quick and easy" path to more power. So he did grow more powerful, but he never became as powerful as he could've been had he stayed.

What a tool.

Well, actually, he didn't leave the Jedi or join the Sith for power, but whatever.

Still a failur.

All of Sheev's apprentices end up looking like tools. It's nothing bad for Tyranus. At least he had seven decades of unadulterated badassery beforehand.

Vader looked pretty badass in the end tbh, and now he has a fan following.

They all have fan followings and looked badass as Sith Lords, but the reality was pretty shit for them, lol.

Vader was the only one who decided to stop being a tool and overthrew Sidious. So he reclaimed some badassery in the end

Tyranus died realizing that he had spent his last thirteen years as a tool.

Maul's just a failure, through and through. He was Palpatine's tool up to TPM. He was too scared to come back to his master after TPM and spent over a decade languishing on Lotho Minor as some crazy spider-hermit. He then gets restored to full health and begins to wage a shadow war against... who? He has all these half-baked attempts for vengeance against Obi-Wan that fail, and his little insurrection on Mandalore is swiftly ended by Sidious. He gets captured and manages to break free, then captures Dooku & Grievous (his crowning achievement) and tries to get Tyranus to join him. What ends up happening is that Dooku and Grievous escape and Sidious kills both Savage and Talzin, the only people Maul ever cared for. Cue another 10+ years of languishing in exile.

Now he tries to train Ezra to be his tool, but loses to a blind Kanan. And now it looks like Ezra's kicking his ass too. I truly pity Maul. Dooku may be a tool and a proton torpedo, but Maul was a genuine loss... of Sith dignity and badassery.

The hate for Maul is real.

The entire forum is in a period of Maul hate.

Talzin possessed Maul will beat Vader. You wait.

That's Talzin, not Maul.

Besides, Talzin possesses none of Dooku's skill with a lightsaber. She isn't beating a red lightsaber duelist ranked better than Sidious by some random ooga-booga list.

Doesn't need to draw 'her' Saber.

So she'll create a giant explosion with her green Lightning? Vader will survive, as he always does.

Because of plot...

Maul won't beat Vader unless it's because of plot as well

Anyways, I've been joking with the Maul hate. But yeah, this quote doesn't definitively prove Jedi Dooku > Jedi Mace, just that Jedi Mace isn't above Jedi Dooku.

Originally posted by SunRazer
That's Talzin, not Maul.

Besides, Talzin possesses none of Dooku's skill with a lightsaber. She isn't beating a red lightsaber duelist ranked better than Sidious by some random ooga-booga list. Maul was ranked higher than Dooku on that list, as I recall.

Originally posted by MythLord
It would appear so:

"Dooku had been reckoned one of the foremost duellists in the Jedi Order, second only to Master Yoda."

-- The Official Star Wars Fact File #60

So this just means that Dooku was second to Yoda while he was a Jedi; it doesn't preclude Windu from surpassing him after he had left the Order. I don't think the idea that TPM Dooku > TPM Mace is that disputed.

But does it give proof for RotS Mace>RotS Dooku?

Mace growing more in power than Dooku during that time would be bizarre, though.

That quote doesn't even say Dooku > Mace, it could say Dooku >= Mace.

Lol. As if this proves jack shit about their peak incarnations

Its not even fact, its an opinion. I'm sure there any many people who reckoned Dooku was second to Yoda, he was pretty good.

I guess Anoon Bondara>Windu now since he was reckoned by some to be the best duelist in the Order.

Originally posted by SeriousLogic
Talzin possessed Maul will beat Vader. You wait.


Lol

This is awesome.

Since when does reckoned = equal fact?

http://i.quoteaddicts.com/media/q1/1398784.png

I mean, the quote is not to be discarded entirely, because that would be ignoring evidence, but to say it's definitively shuts down an age debate is inane. If the Fact File wanted to be emphatic with it's claim, it would had did just that.

Aren't all fact files from the perspective of historians?

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
I mean, the quote is not to be discarded entirely, because that would be ignoring evidence, but to say it's definitively shuts down an age debate is inane. If the Fact File wanted to be emphatic with it's claim, it would had did just that.

Best option in my opinion, would be leave them as equals. Anyway I'm grateful to Lord Myth for providing that quote. Mace's fans tried to destroy a balance between Mace and Dooku (at least as dueslits, I still believe that Dooku was a bit better Force user; anyway, I dont believe that that advantage of Dooku would give him more, then Mace's physical advantage).
And I'll check that source that DP provided (thanks DP ^^)

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Aren't all fact files from the perspective of historians?

I don't have the slightest clue.

ROTS Dooku>ROTS Mace>TPM Dooku

Easy.

Originally posted by Trocity
ROTS Dooku>ROTS Mace>TPM Dooku

Easy.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova

ROTS Mace>ROTS Dooku>TPM Dooku>=TPM Mace... easy

Originally posted by Emperordmb
ROTS Mace>ROTS Dooku>TPM Dooku>=TPM Mace... easy

Well, this is supposed to be Jedi versions of both, but the quote certainly isn't conclusive about Mace at peak being lesser than Dooku.

Mace w/Vapaad>Dookles all day long, doe.

There's no reason to assume Mace grew more in power and skill than Dooku did when Dooku has a much more well established power growth, a longer one, and one based off of far more sources of knowledge to draw from than Windu.

RotS Dooku > RotS Mace > TPM Dooku > TPM Mace.

Originally posted by MythLord
Mace was second only to Yoda on the Council, not in the entire Jedi Order. Or his accolades were before Dooku existed. Either way, the Count is better.
Dooku was never on the jedi council

Exactly my point, dear.

Originally posted by MythLord
Exactly my point, dear.
thought you said Dooku oops my bad

Originally posted by MythLord
There's no reason to assume Mace grew more in power and skill than Dooku did when Dooku has a much more well established power growth, a longer one, and one based off of far more sources of knowledge to draw from than Windu.

RotS Dooku > TPM Dooku > RotS Windu > TPM Mace.
Fixed (I have plan, trust me)

I don't trust you that TPM Dooku is > RotS Mace...

Originally posted by MythLord
I don't trust you that TPM Dooku is > RotS Mace...
Go on GH. I 'll tell ya.