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If Pre Flashpoint Aquaman is 100 in strength, rate these characters in strength.

1. Thing
2. Colossus
3. Superboy
4. Power Girl (Kryptonian)
5. Wonder Woman

I assumed we would be debating stuff about Detroit, or Vs fights they had.

Only character I'd put above him Pre-Flashpoint here is Wonder Woman and that's due to higher shown strength feats, and consistently fighting at a higher lvl.

1. Thing-150
2. Colossus-130
3. Superboy-125
4. Power Girl (Kryptonian)-200
5. Wonder Woman-200

Adjust those numbers to Pre FP Aquaman being a 75.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I assumed we would be debating stuff about Detroit, or Vs fights they had.

Only character I'd put above him Pre-Flashpoint here is Wonder Woman and that's due to higher shown strength feats, and consistently fighting at a higher lvl.
You think Superboy and Power Girl are weaker than Aquaman? Proof?

Originally posted by riv6672
1. Thing-150
2. Colossus-130
3. Superboy-125
4. Power Girl (Kryptonian)-200
5. Wonder Woman-200

Adjust those numbers to Pre FP Aquaman being a 75.
Colossus and Thing stronger than Superboy? Thing twice as strong as Arthur?

I am not very well aware on aquaman's strength. So, I am using another scale.
Assuming Colossus = 100.

Thing - 130
Colossus - 100
SuperBoy - 220
Power girl - 240
Wonder Woman (pre FP) - 260

Really don't like these "if x is 100" threads, but gonna average it out as best I can.

Thing - 50
Colossus - 50
Superboy - 110
PG - 120
WW - 120

Originally posted by abhilegend
Colossus and Thing stronger than Superboy? Thing twice as strong as Arthur?


Sure why not?

Dont bother answering, thats a rhetorical question (i wont be back in here), i wont drag out my opinion on the matter for 7 pages.
I don't spend nearly as much time in your threads as you do in mine.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Really don't like these "if x is 100" threads, but gonna average it out as best I can.

Thing - 50
Colossus - 50
Superboy - 110
PG - 120
WW - 120

Thing - 10
Colossus - 10
Superboy - 110
PG - 120
WW - 120

...

PG, WW, and SB have objective strength feats orderS of magnitude greater than Arthur.

Which is not to say that Arthur couldn't hurt them physically, because in comics objective strength feats don't usually correspond super well to fisticuffs, but yeah.

Pre-Flashpoint is in the ballpark of Thing and Colossus. He got a bit of a boost in the New 52 strength-wise.

Oh pre flashpoint, lmao.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You think Superboy and Power Girl are weaker than Aquaman? Proof?

The fact Superboy said Aquaman was holding back in their fight and that Aquaman agreed.

The fight comparisons between King Shark.

The fact that each of their higher showings favor Aquaman.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
The fact Superboy said Aquaman was holding back in their fight and that Aquaman agreed.

The fight comparisons between King Shark.

The fact that each of their higher showings favor Aquaman.
Aquaman didn't hold back his strength.

King Shark had never been a problem for Kon. Heck, even Krypto has casually beaten him and his entire rogues gallery.

What strength feats does Arthur has that are even close to Connor? At his higher showings Kon is fighting SBP and making him bloody with punches.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Aquaman didn't hold back his strength.

King Shark had never been a problem for Kon. Heck, even Krypto has casually beaten him and his entire rogues gallery.

What strength feats does Arthur has that are even close to Connor? At his higher showings Kon is fighting SBP and making him bloody with punches.

Aquaman held back. When he came back he tossed Kon into a wall and had him down for awhile. Kon didn't put Aquaman down for page time like visa versa.

MMH did that to SBP.

Kon gave Prime a fight based on plot.

Prime is above regular Supes, suggesting Kon can contend with Prime is like suggesting Kon > Superman.

Prime was only superior thanks to his harness which absorbed additional solar rays at a faster rate. Kon didn't really challenge him until the harness came off.

On top of that Kon's one time fighting Prime doesn't add up to Aquaman fighting and harming characters like Titus, Amazo, Despero, Power Ring.

Your going to have to show me Krypto beating his entire Rogue Gallery or Kon casually dismissing King Shark like Aquaman has.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Aquaman held back. When he came back he tossed Kon into a wall and had him down for awhile. Kon didn't put Aquaman down for page time like visa versa.


That's not what happened. Aquaman used a tsunami and Garth and Dolphin to ko an already drowning Kon.

Kon flat out no sold Aquaman's kick. He wasn't holding back his strength there.



No, he didn't.

Three times? Right.

Superman can contend with Time Trapper SBP who was a lot more powerful than regular SBP. So no, it doesn't imply anything.

Lolwut?

Are you out of your mind?

Of course it does. Kon has fought and harmed beings like Doomsday, Kal-L and Despero himself.

And Kon fought Prime three times. And when did Arthur do anything to Titus or Amazo or Despero?



http://imgur.com/a/eBTv1

First you have to show me Aquaman dismissing King Shark. As of now your words means shit all.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's not what happened. Aquaman used a tsunami and Garth and Dolphin to ko an already drowning Kon.

Kon flat out no sold Aquaman's kick. He wasn't holding back his strength there.



No, he didn't.

Three times? Right.

Superman can contend with Time Trapper SBP who was a lot more powerful than regular SBP. So no, it doesn't imply anything.

Lolwut?

Are you out of your mind?

Of course it does. Kon has fought and harmed beings like Doomsday, Kal-L and Despero himself.

And Kon fought Prime three times. And when did Arthur do anything to Titus or Amazo or Despero?



http://imgur.com/a/eBTv1

First you have to show me Aquaman dismissing King Shark. As of now your words means shit all.
Wasn't holding back based on what? Your inability to accept what's suggested on panel. Even in the end of the fight Aquaman suggested he would of been dead if Aquaman decided it. Kon was gone for about 2 panels after Aquaman tossed him away.

There's no context to the Krypto fight you brought up. Ironically I just read that issue of Adventure today.. For All we know Krypto was spamming heat vision on Nanue which he should be susceptible to because of his biology. You have nothing to suggest Krypto beat Nanue by physical means, because the comic is vague as hell.

In "No other Gods before me" Aquaman was harming Titus with his punches. During Detroit Amazo suggested Aquaman was harming him physically. In Crisis of Conscience Despero had to resort to Telepathy because he couldn't take down Aquaman physically, which like Martian Manhunter said "If he can't take you down physically he'll resort to telepathy". First issues of JLA Classified he took down Olympian who had the Fleece of Hercules and also oneshotted Martian Manhunter with his disc. During JLA he also took down Power Ring in Earth 2 specifically who suggested earlier he felt on juiced up and fully powered on Volthoom.

I don't know about the Doomsday instance but if your referencing KC Superman as Kal-L, Superboy was amped during that time. Regardless hurting Kal-L isn't that much of a stretch. King Shark has harmed Superman by physical means in a Superman title.

Prime killed Kon the only time Kon did anything noteworthy was when the harness amping Prime came off. Prime was scared of Kon for some reason and it showed in their fights so yeah I'd call it plot.

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/who-can-king-shark-beat-1768526/

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Wasn't holding back based on what? Your inability to accept what's suggested on panel.

That he was not using his hook hand? That doesn't mean he was holding back his punches and kicks. Never even suggested.



Yes, by drowning. Not exactly by Aquaman's strength.



And? You acted like King Shark is something of a threat to Superboy now when he never was.



Never did.



Non canon. And that Amazo was not that impressive physically.


That's simple idiocy. Despero was never shown fighting Aquaman h2h. Arthur punched him a few times and that's it.



That Olympian is featless in strength. Oneshotting J'onn with a weapon isn't a strength feat.



CSA were unable to win at all on JLA Earth due to the cosmic laws as per the comic.



No, I'm talking about Superboy 6 where Kon fought a Doomsday clone stated to be stronger than original for a whole issue.

And Superboy was amped against KC Superman? When?



Did he now?

http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29936844_AdventuresOfSuperman608p18.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29936845_AdventuresOfSuperman608p19.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29936846_AdventuresOfSuperman608p20.jpg



Prime didn't kill Kon, it was the tower which exploded killing him. And the harness wasn't removed. And Prime wasn't amped there at all.





"I can't bullshit around it so I will deny it as plot."



And what does that even shows? Aqauman using a spear on Shark? Because in one on one fight King Shark had upper hand on him. Even bitchslapped him once.

http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29936847_RCO011_1471856379.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29936848_RCO012_1471856379.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29936849_RCO013_1471856379.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29936850_RCO015_1471856379.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29936851_RCO016_1471856379.jpg

The only reason Arthur beat him was because he was distracted and hurt by the song mentioned. Where did Aquaman dismiss King Shark again?

Originally posted by abhilegend
That he was not using his hook hand? That doesn't mean he was holding back his punches and kicks. Never even suggested.



Yes, by drowning. Not exactly by Aquaman's strength.



And? You acted like King Shark is something of a threat to Superboy now when he never was.



Never did.



Non canon. And that Amazo was not that impressive physically.


That's simple idiocy. Despero was never shown fighting Aquaman h2h. Arthur punched him a few times and that's it.



That Olympian is featless in strength. Oneshotting J'onn with a weapon isn't a strength feat.



CSA were unable to win at all on JLA Earth due to the cosmic laws as per the comic.



No, I'm talking about Superboy 6 where Kon fought a Doomsday clone stated to be stronger than original for a whole issue.

And Superboy was amped against KC Superman? When?



Did he now?

http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29936844_AdventuresOfSuperman608p18.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29936845_AdventuresOfSuperman608p19.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29936846_AdventuresOfSuperman608p20.jpg



Prime didn't kill Kon, it was the tower which exploded killing him. And the harness wasn't removed. And Prime wasn't amped there at all.





"I can't bullshit around it so I will deny it as plot."



And what does that even shows? Aqauman using a spear on Shark? Because in one on one fight King Shark had upper hand on him. Even bitchslapped him once.

http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29936847_RCO011_1471856379.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29936848_RCO012_1471856379.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29936849_RCO013_1471856379.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29936850_RCO015_1471856379.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29936851_RCO016_1471856379.jpg

The only reason Arthur beat him was because he was distracted and hurt by the song mentioned. Where did Aquaman dismiss King Shark again?

Reason I said earlier years.. Aquaman had trouble with KS. In Infinite Crisis he casually dismisses him.

King Shark taking that much punches from Supes honestly looks great. A later showing in Superman Confidential #6 has Supes struggle for a bit.
http://m.imgur.com/xIwSwC7
http://m.imgur.com/QLdw66n

Which isn't that surprising given Superman has also struggled against Ocean Master a superior Aquaman rogue.

If someone suggest there holding back then their holding back. Aquaman stated he was holding back. He didn't state that he was holding back because of his harpoon. That's nothing other then something you decided to throw in. Even if it was his harpoon that means he watching every blow he throws to make sure Instinct doesn't come in and he decides to throw in the wrong punch...

Show me an instance where King Shark wasn't a physical threat to Superboy..? I'll wait.

You've yet to even prove the Amazo showing is non canon.. Despero missed blows on Aquaman logically with how banged up Aquaman was there was probably some back in further their similar to the prior fight Despero had with MMH. Olympian thanks to the Fleece should have the strength of Hercules. Generating enough force to knock down Martian Manhunter is a strength feat...

During Convergence when Superboy fought KC Superman the comic prior suggested that experiments were done to Kon to have him absorb yellow rays faster and store more.

You'd have to show me the Doomsday clone feat. Most Doomsday clones don't hold up because their not spawned with the adaptability of the original.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Reason I said earlier years.. Aquaman had trouble with KS. In Infinite Crisis he casually dismisses him.

No, he didn't. He stabbed King Shark and that's it.



Superman twoshotting King Shark isn't that impressive for King Shark. And Superman classified is Byrne Superman who was a lot weaker than usual and even then oneshotted King Shark.




He didn't struggle. He defeated Orm casually after getting out of his chokehold.



Not with strength, he wasn't. You don't hold back your strength to the point you look weaker than someone else.



Never did.



I'd like to see where he stated he was holding his strength.



He wasn't a threat to Superboy ever since he was upgraded in Teen Titans by Geoff.



Aquaman wasn't shown taking any attack from Despero. Superboy has already fought Despero and did far better than Aquaman.

http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/29937162_RCO002_1468941216.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/29937163_RCO003_1468941216.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/29937164_RCO019_1468941216.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/29937165_RCO020_1468941216.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/29937166_RCO021_1468941216.jpg

And that was a weaker Superboy who was already stronger than Aquaman.



No, it is not.




That was a plot point in early Superboy comics. And it is not him being amped.



Read Superboy 6 and come back. Its a whole issue of fight so can't post it here.

Bottom line, even early Superboy was stronger than Aquaman and since then he has been upgraded and far stronger than Aquaman.

Deal with it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, he didn't. He stabbed King Shark and that's it.



Superman twoshotting King Shark isn't that impressive for King Shark. And Superman classified is Byrne Superman who was a lot weaker than usual and even then oneshotted King Shark.




He didn't struggle. He defeated Orm casually after getting out of his chokehold.



Not with strength, he wasn't. You don't hold back your strength to the point you look weaker than someone else.



Never did.



I'd like to see where he stated he was holding his strength.



He wasn't a threat to Superboy ever since he was upgraded in Teen Titans by Geoff.



Aquaman wasn't shown taking any attack from Despero. Superboy has already fought Despero and did far better than Aquaman.

http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/29937162_RCO002_1468941216.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/29937163_RCO003_1468941216.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/29937164_RCO019_1468941216.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/29937165_RCO020_1468941216.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/29937166_RCO021_1468941216.jpg

And that was a weaker Superboy who was already stronger than Aquaman.



No, it is not.




That was a plot point in early Superboy comics. And it is not him being amped.



Read Superboy 6 and come back. Its a whole issue of fight so can't post it here.

Bottom line, even early Superboy was stronger than Aquaman and since then he has been upgraded and far stronger than Aquaman.

Deal with it.

You have a tendency to change stuff in comics to fit it how you like.

How is Despero fighting three different characters and Superboy happening to be one of them comparable to Aquaman fighting Despero one on one and forcing Despero to resort to Telepathy.. something suggested would of been done if Despero couldn't physically overwhelm him..

King Shark didn't get oneshotted by Superman in Confidential. Superman started the fight with a punch which didn't even knock out Nanue and then later after Nanue was making him scream Supes tossed him. That's not being oneshotted.. yet comic instances change when you decide to word them..

Superman showed signs of struggling against Orm.. Orm was choking him which had Supes looking like he was struggling and Orm took a punch from him as well. Noone lost the fight though.. Superman tried to convert Orm to Boy scoutism Orm wasn't interested and left.

Holding back means Holding Back..

Superman knows what's going on when he ask Aquaman to hold back Superboy
http://m.imgur.com/j3hC3u3?r

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
You have a tendency to change stuff in comics to fit it how you like.







Despero used telepathy on Superboy from the start. He is just that powerful to shrug it off and draw blood from Despero with a punch which Arthur never did.



King Shark didn't make him scream. He was just grunting after King Shark hit him in the wall.

And yes, its basically getting oneshotted when Superman casually threw him away.



It was one panel of Superman being in a choke hold and then oneshotting Orm like nothing.



Yes, after beating the shit out of him.



He never said he was holding back his strength. Point me where he did.



That he has a hook which can drag him down? That has nothing to do with strength.

Kon is far stronger than Aquaman. Deal with it.

So this thread was never about strength rankings... Good to know.

Originally posted by abhilegend






Despero used telepathy on Superboy from the start. He is just that powerful to shrug it off and draw blood from Despero with a punch which Arthur never did.



King Shark didn't make him scream. He was just grunting after King Shark hit him in the wall.

And yes, its basically getting oneshotted when Superman casually threw him away.



It was one panel of Superman being in a choke hold and then oneshotting Orm like nothing.



Yes, after beating the shit out of him.



He never said he was holding back his strength. Point me where he did.



That he has a hook which can drag him down? That has nothing to do with strength.

Kon is far stronger than Aquaman. Deal with it.

It's interesting to see how you distort things to fit in the format you want.

Nowhere in the Orm vs Superman fight did Superman "beat the shit" out of Orm.
http://m.imgur.com/a/eHhUS
Sure Superman sent Orm backwards with a hit, but that's not "beating the shit out of" otherwise New52 Aquaman has "beat the shit out of" Superman. Orm by your standard of hurt isn't bleeding when Superman hit him all that happened is bubbles came out of his mouth.

Despero's hypnotism is from his eye, Telepathy is a mental thing from the mind..

Two hits were shown in the King Shark vs Superman fight. Oneshotting would be only using one hit in the entire fight. If you consider the toss a hit then that would be 2. There's also nothing to suggest KS was oneshotted he could of just been BFR'd.

Are you honestly suggesting strength isn't involved when dragging someone down....? Are you suggesting the hook magically brought Kon down and it wasn't the strength behind it? Not to mention their going to different ways Kon is flying forward and Aquaman is pulling back. So that's resistance from both.

Originally posted by -Pr-
So this thread was never about strength rankings... Good to know.

It was Ahbi's attempt to avoid stuff he hasn't answered in a previous thread. It's interesting to see the comics interpretation of an event compared to what Ahbi gets out of the comic.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
It's interesting to see how you distort things to fit in the format you want.

Haha, right. Orm was making Superman struggle isn't distorting things.



Superman subdued Orm straight up after getting out of his choke hold. Aquaman cheapshotted Superman.

Kon beat the shit out of Arthur though.



I'm not talking about bleeding.



He used his third eye at Aquaman and J'onn as well. Its not hypnotism at all.

http://imgur.com/a/oTvfH



Yes, and nowhere did King Shark made Superman scream as you said it.

But aren't you supposed to show a scan where Aquaman dismissed King Shark? Why are we comparing Superman to Aquaman now



His flying isn't based on strength. So no, it doesn't.

So where are all these strength feats which show Arthur being stronger?

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
It was Ahbi's attempt to avoid stuff he hasn't answered in a previous thread. It's interesting to see the comics interpretation of an event compared to what Ahbi gets out of the comic.


Rich coming from you. Seriously.

Originally posted by riv6672
Sure why not?

Dont bother answering, thats a rhetorical question (i wont be back in here), i wont drag out my opinion on the matter for 7 pages.
I don't spend nearly as much time in your threads as you do in mine. You were a willing participant and you must have known he was waiting next to this bear trap with his turboimage host tab full of scans ready for the inevitable

Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, right. Orm was making Superman struggle isn't distorting things.



Superman subdued Orm straight up after getting out of his choke hold. Aquaman cheapshotted Superman.

Kon beat the shit out of Arthur though.



I'm not talking about bleeding.



He used his third eye at Aquaman and J'onn as well. Its not hypnotism at all.

http://imgur.com/a/oTvfH



Yes, and nowhere did King Shark made Superman scream as you said it.

But aren't you supposed to show a scan where Aquaman dismissed King Shark? Why are we comparing Superman to Aquaman now



His flying isn't based on strength. So no, it doesn't.

So where are all these strength feats which show Arthur being stronger?
When you have a grunting expression because your put in a hold I'd call that struggling. If he wasnt he wouldn't be artistically drawn as such..

He didn't subdue anyone, he hit Orm and then lectured him. Subduing in terms of fighting is generally represented as restraining. Superman didn't do anything of the such to Orm. He talked to him Orm said whatever and left.

Kon really didn't. Arthur was still conscious after fighting Kon, Kon gets put down for panel time when Arthur gets back.

Propulsion is moving forward. If I'm moving forwards and you pull me back that means your exerting greater force.. I don't know what kind of logic your trying to throw around with flying isn't based in strength..

Capital Red letters of Superman screaming
http://m.imgur.com/xIwSwC7
Characters have been rammed into things and made less notice of it. Grayson went through a motorcycle and didn't scream as loud as Superman is on that panel.

I did show Aquaman dismissing KS you just decided not to accept it. And that's with the fact all of Aquaman's rogues were there as well.

You got me on the Despero instance.

Aquaman lifting feats like the Sub-Diego street put him above 100 tons and that's more then anything I've seen Kon do in any continuity.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
When you have a grunting expression because your put in a hold I'd call that struggling. If he wasnt he wouldn't be artistically drawn as such..

Or Superman had trouble breathing due to being underwater as shown in the art. He wasn't struggling against his strength.



After subduing him. Orm was trying to attack him but then out of kindness didn't?



Yes, because Kon stopped fighting back after overpowering Arthur completely.



Because he damn near drowned. I like how Dolphin and Garth's help is overlooked.



I didn't know Kon flies using his strength. Can you elaborate about this? Because Batman has pulled down Superman using simple ropes. That doesn't means he was as strong as Superman.



That's called a grunt.



That's not a scream. But if you want to compare Superman to Aquaman and King Shark, we can create another thread about it.





You showed Aquaman using a spear to impale King Shark? How is that dismissing King Shark?







Is that so? Aquaman lifted a city block? New 52 Superboy lifted an entire city and threw it in the space.

http://i.imgur.com/RixGavb.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/3zP4PNz.jpg

And even old school Kon can lift entire castles.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/Rewmac/Scans/Superboy/__hr_13.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
Or Superman had trouble breathing due to being underwater as shown in the art. He wasn't struggling against his strength.



After subduing him. Orm was trying to attack him but then out of kindness didn't?



Yes, because Kon stopped fighting back after overpowering Arthur completely.



Because he damn near drowned. I like how Dolphin and Garth's help is overlooked.



I didn't know Kon flies using his strength. Can you elaborate about this? Because Batman has pulled down Superman using simple ropes. That doesn't means he was as strong as Superman.



That's called a grunt.



That's not a scream. But if you want to compare Superman to Aquaman and King Shark, we can create another thread about it.





You showed Aquaman using a spear to impale King Shark? How is that dismissing King Shark?







Is that so? Aquaman lifted a city block? New 52 Superboy lifted an entire city and threw it in the space.

http://i.imgur.com/RixGavb.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/3zP4PNz.jpg

And even old school Kon can lift entire castles.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/Rewmac/Scans/Superboy/__hr_13.jpg

I didn't write the story.. logically why would Orm even listen to what Superman had to say.. wasn't the first time he attacked Superman wasnt the last in history. Only modern time in a Superman book.

He didn't overpower Aquaman at all that's more of you misconstruing what's shown in a book. He no sold one attack. Later to be phased from hits from people weaker then Aquaman. Throwing that in since you want to bring up Dolphin and Garth like it's something to brag about. Whereas ignore Tim and Bart in the Despero instance.

Show me Batman pulling Superman down using rope, when Superman is flying in a different direction and Batman is pulling the opposite direction.. logically if the rope is strong enough Batman should be going on a trip by flight.

Pretty exclamatory and bolded Grunt...

I thought we were talking about Post-Crisis characters why is New52 Superboy being brought up lol..

How is a castle bigger then something with several buildings on it? As well as being on the sea floor with cars and etc. It's worse given its not pure strength since the scan implies he's using his TK to help.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I didn't write the story.. logically why would Orm even listen to what Superman had to say.. wasn't the first time he attacked Superman wasnt the last in history. Only modern time in a Superman book.


What's that has to the fact that Superman pretty casually overpowered him?

Look, Aquaman is struggling against Hawkman.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/JLA119-0006.jpg



He did overpower Aquaman.

He was damn near unconscious when Garth and Dolphin tag teamed him.

I never said Kon was stronger than Despero as you're claiming Arthur is stronger than kon.



On phone so can't access my comics.

But no, pulling someone down isn't being stronger than someone.



Yes, after which Superman pretty casually threw him away.

You can make a thread with Aquaman, Ocean Master and King Shark vs Superman and see who wins if you want.



Because you said that Arthur has better feats in both continuties?



Because the street he lifted had no buildings?

And Superboy didn't had superstrength in those days. His TTK was his strength.

BTW, here is a better feat. Eradicator throws a mountain at Superman and Superboy. Both break out of it with no issues.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777504/eradvssuperman_5.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777505/eradvssuperman_6.jpg.html
http://i.imgur.com/9q6UQ0K.jpg

Oh and he overpowered Power Girl and an alternate Supergirl at the same time.

http://i.imgur.com/DSlio6q.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/NSXhbAJ.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
What's that has to the fact that Superman pretty casually overpowered him?

Look, Aquaman is struggling against Hawkman.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/JLA119-0006.jpg



He did overpower Aquaman.

He was damn near unconscious when Garth and Dolphin tag teamed him.

I never said Kon was stronger than Despero as you're claiming Arthur is stronger than kon.



On phone so can't access my comics.

But no, pulling someone down isn't being stronger than someone.



Yes, after which Superman pretty casually threw him away.

You can make a thread with Aquaman, Ocean Master and King Shark vs Superman and see who wins if you want.



Because you said that Arthur has better feats in both continuties?



Because the street he lifted had no buildings?

And Superboy didn't had superstrength in those days. His TTK was his strength.

BTW, here is a better feat. Eradicator throws a mountain at Superman and Superboy. Both break out of it with no issues.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777504/eradvssuperman_5.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777505/eradvssuperman_6.jpg.html
http://i.imgur.com/9q6UQ0K.jpg

Oh and he overpowered Power Girl and an alternate Supergirl at the same time.

http://i.imgur.com/DSlio6q.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/NSXhbAJ.jpg

Lol in the comic you presented Black Canary accomplished what Superboy did..

Alternate characters are featless for the most part we don't give them feats of their main counterpart or feats from different universes just because name value. Would explain your confusion though.

Aquaman struggling against Hawkman?
Not what the scan really shows but by that logic
Superboy struggling against Herald.
http://pm1.narvii.com/5748/f6b9e2fa599bca872eed3bc298d1385ee1e8b9b3_hq.jpg


Besides weren't you the same person trying to pair up Hawkman with Black Adam at an earlier moment. You change your stance as much as Hillary it seems.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-626173-hawkman-vs-black-panther.html

So a tsunami almost made Superboy unconscious and we're arguing he's greater then someone who can free fall from Space to Sea level at the speed of faster then light squared..

I love how your trying to play TTK as a strength feat.. By this logic when Grifter or Jean use TK their physical strength feats..

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Lol in the comic you presented Black Canary accomplished what Superboy did..


Uh, what? What are you talking about?

What? That Supergirl was supposed to be PC Supergirl and was ridiculously strong.

Just let me know if you haven't read a comic.

Yes, just like Superman struggling against Orm, right?

Who is Herald? Superboy is fighting SBP there.





Hawkman is an absolute beast in damage soak. But in that comic he was koed by Batman.





Yes, he can't breath underwater.

Arthur wasn't thrown at lightspeed. His personality merged with his older self. Did you even read the comic?



His TTK is his strength. Until he was retconned as being half Kryptonian by Geoff Johns in Teen Titans.

Do you even know the character you're arguing against?

Any actual reason to leave this open?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Uh, what? What are you talking about?

What? That Supergirl was supposed to be PC Supergirl and was ridiculously strong.

Just let me know if you haven't read a comic.

Yes, just like Superman struggling against Orm, right?

Who is Herald? Superboy is fighting SBP there.





Hawkman is an absolute beast in damage soak. But in that comic he was koed by Batman.





Yes, he can't breath underwater.

Arthur wasn't thrown at lightspeed. His personality merged with his older self. Did you even read the comic?



His TTK is his strength. Until he was retconned as being half Kryptonian by Geoff Johns in Teen Titans.

Do you even know the character you're arguing against?

Durability doesn't equate to strength and the difference to Hawkman grappling Aquaman compared to Ocean Master grappling Superman, is first move. Hawkman's first move on Arthur was a grapple. One that didn't last. Ocean Master attacked Superman with his scepter before he even got him in the grapple hold. Same with KS powerslamming Supes that wasn't the first attack.

Werent you a minute ago using Bald Superboy to suggest how powerful Superboy was. Yet it's invalid to use Herald who is a human grappling one of these Superboy's and Offspring another.

Herald is Malcolm Duncan other codenames are Guardian, Vox, Hornblower.

Selectional circumstance biast is what you suffer from.

In the same comic Hawkman got KO'D by Batman, Despero beat up J'onn, was struggling against Arthur, and stalemates with Supes. And this is stuff going beyond a panel.

Black Manta can't breath underwater and a tsunami wasn't going to make him unconscious which is what your suggesting it did to Superboy not the hits themselve.

TK isn't strength.

Aquaman felt the impact of his body hitting the water. I read rock of ages. What Wally said was that they're bodies were accelerating so fast that they were becoming pure light information. That doesn't change the Fact that when he hit he fell at that much force. Theirs a reason the impact was brought up.

His "personality" honestly where the hell do you get this stuff.

"We arrive here" is what the comic said as them

http://m.imgur.com/a/2TdcX

Originally posted by -Pr-
Any actual reason to leave this open?

I'd beg you don't, cause I'm curious to see where he's going with alot of the stuff he's spouting.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Durability doesn't equate to strength and the difference to Hawkman grappling Aquaman compared to Ocean Master grappling Superman, is first move.

What? They are both appearing to choke Superman/Aquaman.



Aquaman didn't overpower Hawkman. Despero attacked him and ripped out his wings.

http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/29973857_JLA_119_page_05_06.jpg http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/29973858_JLA_119_page_07.jpg



http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/29973859_Page_09.jpg http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/29973860_Page_14.jpg

That being the first attack we see on Superman. Not that being the first attack means its somehow durability feat.



Superboy wasn't grappling with power girl and Supergirl. He was choking them out.

And Herald/Offspring were just thrown away if you've actually read the comic.





You just said Hawkman choking Aquaman is different than Ocean Master trying to choke Superman.

You don't get to talk about picking and choosing.



We don't see Despero tagging Aquaman. But does that somehow negates Hawkman choking Aquaman?



Black Manta has a suit which protects him. That's not suggesting. Its what was stated in the comic.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/29973870/RCO016_1468988835.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/29973871/RCO017_1468988835.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/29973872/RCO018_1468988835.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/29973878/RCO019_1468988835.jpg.html

The fact that Aquaman needed whales, Garth and Dolphin to stand a chance against Superboy and you think he was stronger than Superboy?



Not TK. Tactile TK. Read about it.



No, he didn't. They were akin to ghosts and took possession of their future selves.

http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29973867_JLA_13_pg01.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29973868_JLA_13_pg02.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29973869_JLA_13_pg03.jpg

You seriously don't know how to read, do you?



Haha, you sure know how to hide a lot of context.

They arrived there as ghosts. Hence why Kyle arrived in the body of a parademon and Wally arrived in the body of fat human who couldn't even run.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Any actual reason to leave this open?
We are having a discussion as per the thread topic?Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I'd beg you don't, cause I'm curious to see where he's going with alot of the stuff he's spouting.
crylaugh

This is just gold.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What? They are both appearing to choke Superman/Aquaman.



Aquaman didn't overpower Hawkman. Despero attacked him and ripped out his wings.

http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/29973857_JLA_119_page_05_06.jpg http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/29973858_JLA_119_page_07.jpg



http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/29973859_Page_09.jpg http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/29973860_Page_14.jpg

That being the first attack we see on Superman. Not that being the first attack means its somehow durability feat.



Superboy wasn't grappling with power girl and Supergirl. He was choking them out.

And Herald/Offspring were just thrown away if you've actually read the comic.





You just said Hawkman choking Aquaman is different than Ocean Master trying to choke Superman.

You don't get to talk about picking and choosing.



We don't see Despero tagging Aquaman. But does that somehow negates Hawkman choking Aquaman?



Black Manta has a suit which protects him. That's not suggesting. Its what was stated in the comic.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/29973870/RCO016_1468988835.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/29973871/RCO017_1468988835.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/29973872/RCO018_1468988835.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/29973878/RCO019_1468988835.jpg.html

The fact that Aquaman needed whales, Garth and Dolphin to stand a chance against Superboy and you think he was stronger than Superboy?



Not TK. Tactile TK. Read about it.



No, he didn't. They were akin to ghosts and took possession of their future selves.

http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29973867_JLA_13_pg01.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29973868_JLA_13_pg02.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/29973869_JLA_13_pg03.jpg

You seriously don't know how to read, do you?



Haha, you sure know how to hide a lot of context.

They arrived there as ghosts. Hence why Kyle arrived in the body of a parademon and Wally arrived in the body of fat human who couldn't even run.

Different in the fact that initial strike. I can give an initial strike being something that's done offguard. So yeah there's a difference between Ocean Master at second attack being a grapple. Compared to Hawkman first grappling Aquaman.

The Whales created a tsunami that flooded Hawaii. According to you Superboy would of died because of a tsunami something that Black Manta with a suit like you said has the durability to take.

Speaking of Powergirl where's her superior strength feats? That wasn't Superboy according to you though. The real Superboy was getting beat up by Prime.

The ghost thing doesn't suggest he didn't take force of his light body landing there's a reason why he felt the impact when his light form crashed. That's why the impact in the scan is even mentioned. If there wasn't no force involved in the fall there'd be no reason of bringing up the impact.

I know how to read. I just prefer not to read a bunch of excuses and bull.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Different in the fact that initial strike. I can give an initial strike being something that's done offguard. So yeah there's a difference between Ocean Master at second attack being a grapple. Compared to Hawkman first grappling Aquaman.

Where is the first strike from Ocean Master?



Yes, because Superboy couldn't breath underwater. Not because of strength or durability related issues.



Here is Power Girl stopping a ship the size of a city.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-84Vv2OITh-c/VdfhVFJPpsI/AAAAAAAO06w/_karwPNSeXY/s1600/p2_3_14.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZQbVCO7Af9g/VdfhVvto7tI/AAAAAAAO064/IinKcOkXgN4/s1600/p2_3_16.jpg

That's one of her small scale feats.



What? You know those were memories of Superboy, right?





That didn't happen. He was drawn in the body of his older self. There was no impact and his younger body wasn't taking the fall.



There was no such impact on Earth. He flat out says that he had taken possession of his older body. How does that mean he gets hit on earth?



This is laughable.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Where is the first strike from Ocean Master?



Yes, because Superboy couldn't breath underwater. Not because of strength or durability related issues.



Here is Power Girl stopping a ship the size of a city.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-84Vv2OITh-c/VdfhVFJPpsI/AAAAAAAO06w/_karwPNSeXY/s1600/p2_3_14.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZQbVCO7Af9g/VdfhVvto7tI/AAAAAAAO064/IinKcOkXgN4/s1600/p2_3_16.jpg

That's one of her small scale feats.



What? You know those were memories of Superboy, right?





That didn't happen. He was drawn in the body of his older self. There was no impact and his younger body wasn't taking the fall.



There was no such impact on Earth. He flat out says that he had taken possession of his older body. How does that mean he gets hit on earth?



This is laughable.

I assumed from the scepter but in all honesty that could just be Superman straining to break the cuffs off the whale.
http://m.imgur.com/a/eHhUS

Black Manta can't breathe underwater a tsunami wasn't going to kill him though..

That's impressive what comic is the Powergirl scan from? And why not show her greater lifting strength feats?

And earlier according to you, you ignored those memories to disregard the idea of Hornblower grappling Superboy. In favor of actual Kon getting beat up by Prime.

What you suggest in your own words is "There was no impact" what the comic exactly says is "and then the impact" your not matching what's said in the comic.

On top of that before the impact is brought up its brought up gravity is pulling his light body down. Meaning force is being applied to this body. So logically if force is bringing him down then there's a "impact"
http://m.imgur.com/a/2TdcX

Personally, I never saw the Rock of Ages scene as Aquaman being physically slammed into the Earth.

He's hard light, being drawn down by a force 'like gravity'. He's being attracted towards his body. Then the shock of the impact, where he's being converted back into a physical state.

Not the same as being purely physical, and being slammed into the Earth.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Personally, I never saw the Rock of Ages scene as Aquaman being physically slammed into the Earth.

He's hard light, being drawn down by a force 'like gravity'. He's being attracted towards his body. Then the shock of the impact, where he's being converted back into a physical state.

Not the same as being purely physical, and being slammed into the Earth.

I find it questionable that he fell from the atmosphere for one

Mainly I feel all of it adds up to distance and speed he's falling. Morrison typically wrote showings like that for character where in a way a character would stress the important of the feat and he'd build it up.

First we get a speed there traveling in by Wally earlier which was said to be The Speed of Light Squared.

Then we get the falling from Orbit, more specifically being forcefully pulled down like Gravity. Which is something done from the atmosphere on physical objects. All matter on the planet to my understanding has gravity weighing it down.

And then after being pulled down we get the "Impact"

Regardless of it I atleast hope you can see that comic suggest there was impact from when his light body merged into his flesh.

True - but the force wasn't gravity. Which, as you said, affects physical objects.

It was a force LIKE gravity. Which implies heavily he was NOT physical - otherwise, it would be gravity pulling him.

The comic suggests that - but again, I saw it as being a mental shock - a mental impact. Suddenly he goes from pure light info, to having blood and flesh etc.

Edit: Ultimately, I am not that fussed, lol. But I'm just saying, that's how I have always read it....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
True - but the force wasn't gravity. Which, as you said, affects physical objects.

It was a force LIKE gravity. Which implies heavily he was NOT physical - otherwise, it would be gravity pulling him.

The comic suggests that - but again, I saw it as being a mental shock - a mental impact. Suddenly he goes from pure light info, to having blood and flesh etc.

Edit: Ultimately, I am not that fussed, lol. But I'm just saying, that's how I have always read it....

That honestly does make alot of sense though, you worded that well.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I assumed from the scepter but in all honesty that could just be Superman straining to break the cuffs off the whale.
http://m.imgur.com/a/eHhUS

So there was no first attack as you said. Good to know.



If the breath is knocked out of him? Yes.



Power Girl v2 3. Her greatest feat is shoving back an overgrown Moon back in its orbit together with Superman, Wonder Woman, J'onn and Captain Marvel.



I'm not sure where you are going with this. Is Hawkman strangling Aquaman negated with the fact that Superboy threw Herald away after that and Aquaman couldn't?



He is talking about the "ghost of his body" impacting in the older body. It wasn't literally impacted on Earth. How did he get into his older self's body?



Yes, to his older self which was where he ended up. He says "I feel a pull like gravity. My light body being drawn to Earth. And then the impact. The pounding of my heart. The weight of muscles and bones."

I've never seen such distortion of a scene.

facepalm

Originally posted by abhilegend
So there was no first attack as you said. Good to know.



If the breath is knocked out of him? Yes.



Power Girl v2 3. Her greatest feat is shoving back an overgrown Moon back in its orbit together with Superman, Wonder Woman, J'onn and Captain Marvel.



I'm not sure where you are going with this. Is Hawkman strangling Aquaman negated with the fact that Superboy threw Herald away after that and Aquaman couldn't?



He is talking about the "ghost of his body" impacting in the older body. It wasn't literally impacted on Earth. How did he get into his older self's body?



Yes, to his older self which was where he ended up. He says "I feel a pull like gravity. My light body being drawn to Earth. And then the impact. The pounding of my heart. The weight of muscles and bones."

I've never seen such distortion of a scene.

facepalm

So logically what your suggesting is 2 characters weaker than Aquaman can knock the breath out of Superboy.

That doesn't sound caculatable. Superman has shown moon level strength with Green Lantern alone. I don't agree with the logic in suggesting everyone is pulling the same amount of weight when certain characters have shown to be strong enough to do it almost solely.

It's one panel. I could suggest Aquaman would of got out of the hold with his superior strength showings but it's baseless just as baseless as suggesting Hawkman would of kept him in the hold. We really can't say due to the interruption.

I love how you come in to try to explain a scene we've been arguing to fit in what someone else says that I agree with. What you suggested not to long ago was "Impact" wasn't brought up in the comic so irregardless you were wrong.. and in such a simple manner that all you have to do is read.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
That honestly does make alot of sense though, you worded that well.

Whether you're right, or Abhi is right, or I am right, is of no importance.

All that matters is that I word things better than Abhi

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
So logically what your suggesting is 2 characters weaker than Aquaman can knock the breath out of Superboy.

Yes, if attacked in a tag team.



That's how it was done and if Superman was alone doing all that, there would be no need of others.



Just like Superman who actually got out of Orm's hold and you think he was struggling.





So when you are wrong, you brag about it? There was no impact on ground.

Next misinterpretation please.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Whether you're right, or Abhi is right, or I am right, is of no importance.

All that matters is that I word things better than Abhi
Nobody likes an attention whore.

sneer

He suggested there was no impact in a comic that used the exact word impact to describe a merge of forms. So I'm holding on to that going forward, whenever he brings up not reading..

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
He suggested there was no impact in a comic that used the exact word impact to describe a merge of forms. So I'm holding on to that going forward, whenever he brings up not reading..
There was no on ground impact as I said.

You better learn to read.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, if attacked in a tag team.



That's how it was done and if Superman was alone doing all that, there would be no need of others.



Just like Superman who actually got out of Orm's hold and you think he was struggling.





So when you are wrong, you brag about it? There was no impact on ground.

Next misinterpretation please.

No that's not how physical force works at all unless there both hitting the same exact spot at the same time.. which they weren't.

So how much force are you suggesting Power girl lent on moving the moon? Also wheres the scan?

Superman was vividly struggling artistically if you look Ling your grunting and grasping on the item used to choke you while bubbles are coming out of you mouth underwater (which is air being released from his body) then yeah I'd say your struggling. I won't push on it since it was a panel though. Doesn't change the fact KS after being hit by Superman slams him into a mountain right after also showing vivid pain.

I'm not bragging about anything. I interpreted a comic different then someone else. You suggested a word wasn't used that's clearly shown in the comic. Ideas and Art can be interpreted differently, the exact words on a page though? That's questionable to observational skills.

Originally posted by abhilegend
There was no on ground impact as I said.

You better learn to read.

What you originally said was "there was no impact" word for word.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
No that's not how physical force works at all unless there both hitting the same exact spot at the same time.. which they weren't.

They hit him at the same time knocking out his breath. Why does that mean he is weaker than Arthur?



More force than lifting a street.

http://i.imgur.com/V976fzo.png




I think he was struggling to breath as he overpowered Orm quite easily after that. But you dismissed Hawkman choking out Aquaman as Aquaman not struggling so what do I know.



Yes, he can slam Superman and make him grunt when he was younger. Later Superman treated him like a joke and twoshotted him in AOS 608. That's struggling too, right?



This can't be interpreted as Aquaman taking a fall at lightspeed. This is just getting ridiculous.

And I said there was no on ground impact. Learn to read.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
What you originally said was "there was no impact" word for word.
Let it go already. You were proven wrong. Again.

No shame in that when all you spout is wrong anyway.

Originally posted by abhilegend
We are having a discussion as per the thread topic?
crylaugh

This is just gold.

I don't know what your definition of discussion is, but it isn't derailing threads just to prove a point.

I'm only leaving it open for now because EG asked me to, but how long depends on you guys.

Originally posted by abhilegend
They hit him at the same time knocking out his breath. Why does that mean he is weaker than Arthur?



More force than lifting a street.

http://i.imgur.com/V976fzo.png




I think he was struggling to breath as he overpowered Orm quite easily after that. But you dismissed Hawkman choking out Aquaman as Aquaman not struggling so what do I know.



Yes, he can slam Superman and make him grunt when he was younger. Later Superman treated him like a joke and twoshotted him in AOS 608. That's struggling too, right?



This can't be interpreted as Aquaman taking a fall at lightspeed. This is just getting ridiculous.

And I said there was no on ground impact. Learn to read.

Thing is he didn't overpower Orm. End of the encounter Orm was still standing fine.or floating in water just fine. Superman can oxygenate his blood to the point where he doesn't have to breathe.

Not what I asked.. what I asked is how much of the force is Powergirl lifting in the moon feat?

When he was younger? Confidential was a grown Superman lol. You'd have to show me the entire instance of AOS unless that's the feat you already showed me of a younger smaller looking KS.

Let's see he started in space, where it suggested he was being pulled down by a force like gravity and then a sudden impact is involved. If you assume that force is gravity then yeah it could be taken as a fall at speeds that he was suggested to be vibrating at to begin with.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Thing is he didn't overpower Orm. End of the encounter Orm was still standing fine.or floating in water just fine. Superman can oxygenate his blood to the point where he doesn't have to breathe.


What? Getting out of a chokehold isn't overpowering someone?

And Superman wasn't there to beat him up. One punch is what it took too.



No exact number was given. It's likely more than lifting a street though.




You seriously stop to run your mouth. That was before Superman and Lois were dating and right in Byrne Era. Did you even read the comic?

That's entire scene. That comic is in present. Now you're claiming it was a weaker King Shark?





It wasn't gravity though. He was drawn to his older body.

Are you seriously suggesting that Aquaman, King Shark or Ocean Master are anywhere near Superman in strength? We can create another thread to discuss that if you're so eager.

Why don't you compare them to Superboy as per thread topic? Or Wonder Woman?

Originally posted by abhilegend
What? Getting out of a chokehold isn't overpowering someone?

And Superman wasn't there to beat him up. One punch is what it took too.



No exact number was given. It's likely more than lifting a street though.




You seriously stop to run your mouth. That was before Superman and Lois were dating and right in Byrne Era. Did you even read the comic?

That's entire scene. That comic is in present. Now you're claiming it was a weaker King Shark?





It wasn't gravity though. He was drawn to his older body.

Are you seriously suggesting that Aquaman, King Shark or Ocean Master are anywhere near Superman in strength? We can create another thread to discuss that if you're so eager.

Why don't you compare them to Superboy as per thread topic? Or Wonder Woman?

One punch is what it took to do what? Orm was still conscious, he wasn't bleeding, there wasn't much harm other then being sent flying backwards which is only as much of an accomplishment as you want to make it..

Based on what is it more then lifting a street, the problem here is your can't determine how much PG is pushing. Logically if we go by her city ship strength feat since that's the highest shown by herself. I'm still curious to what the issue number to that is though?

PG's city feat also isn't the same as lifting a city with all the construction and living stuff equated onto an actual city. Weight comes off due to the lack of buildings, vehicles, construction, and etc.


Byrne era..? Took pace in 2006 and yeah I read the Lori was using Superman stuff. If you read the comic you'd know Lois is referred to as Superman's girlfriend in the comic..

Yeah I'd call if a weaker KS, that's the depiction of KS when he first showed up. Any later appearance he was drank more imposing and wasn't dismissed as easily.

I'm not suggesting their near Superman I'm just bringing up instances where Superman struggled against them. I'm using Superman because he's stronger than Wonder Woman and Superboy. Same reason I mentioned Desperate earlier.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
One punch is what it took to do what? Orm was still conscious, he wasn't bleeding, there wasn't much harm other then being sent flying backwards which is only as much of an accomplishment as you want to make it..


And he was still overpowered when Superman broke out of chokehold.

So what are you trying to spin here?

What The ****? You think pushing an overgrown moon with the help of six other characters isn't above lifting a street?

She could've pushed a thousandth part of the moon and it would still be magnitudes above lifting a street.



Power Girl 3.



Now stopping a city sized ship is lowballed.

Good.

And no, her best feat is surviving in a Quasar created by Oblivion to destroy entire universe.



It takes place in a flashback. All of the issues deal with the earliest era of Superman.



Superman was engaged with Lois in Superman v2 50.

Back in Byrne Era.



Hahaha, what? That's the present day King Shark and Superman was stronger than his Byrne Era.

Superman would dismiss Aquaman that easily too.



But he never struggled them besides one panel after which he easily overpowered every one of them.

Superboy has done better than that against both Superman and Cyborg-Superman.

Originally posted by abhilegend
If Pre Flashpoint Aquaman is 100 in strength, rate these characters in strength.

1. Thing
2. Colossus
3. Superboy
4. Power Girl (Kryptonian)
5. Wonder Woman 150
100
100,000,000,000,000,000
1,000,000,000,000,000,000
1,000,000

What?

I don't think Aquaman is in the ballpark of the Kryptonians. I might have been a bit too generous with the zeroes though, let me fix that.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And he was still overpowered when Superman broke out of chokehold.

So what are you trying to spin here?

What The ****? You think pushing an overgrown moon with the help of six other characters isn't above lifting a street?

She could've pushed a thousandth part of the moon and it would still be magnitudes above lifting a street.



Power Girl 3.



Now stopping a city sized ship is lowballed.

Good.

And no, her best feat is surviving in a Quasar created by Oblivion to destroy entire universe.



It takes place in a flashback. All of the issues deal with the earliest era of Superman.



Superman was engaged with Lois in Superman v2 50.

Back in Byrne Era.



Hahaha, what? That's the present day King Shark and Superman was stronger than his Byrne Era.

Superman would dismiss Aquaman that easily too.



But he never struggled them besides one panel after which he easily overpowered every one of them.

Superboy has done better than that against both Superman and Cyborg-Superman.


We don't see Superman break out of the choke hold we don't even know how he did it. For all we know Superman rammed him into the ocean floor to get him off. That's the problem with your analysis it's being over generous to something that lacks a lot of context. Overall it's Superman biast.

Give me the calcs for Powergirl moving her unquantifiable part of the moon? Give me the calcs of her moving a city sized ship without all of the material on a city?

It's not lowballing if there's logic to the criticism, I'm just being critique.

You'd have to show me the Oblivion feat.

Byrne Era ended in 1988.. Superman proposed in the 90s

Kind of weak logic to begin with Byrne didn't right the confidential issue

Kind of hard to believe since he struggled so bad to dismiss Orm.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace

Byrne Era ended in 1988.. Superman proposed in the 90s

Kind of weak logic to begin with Byrne didn't right the confidential issue
Depends on what you consider Byrne era. Some people consider it when he stopped on the primary titles, but others consider it essentially until Jurgens took over, killed that Superman, and brought back the real Superman, and began powering him up. This is largely because they were still riding Byrne's plotting and power levels for some time after he left.

Confidential are hard to place in continuity precisely, and many are actually 'lost' stories from various eras and had no place in any of the primary books, and wouldn't get their own minis, because people would think they were current. And again, a few of the arcs were actually written by Byrne himself.

Most of the time you can figure it out by the cast and the way they act together, like who is in the Justice League, etc.

Byrne also was a creator on issue 50 in 1990, when Superman engaged Lois.

So the issue is before that

If Pre Flashpoint Aquaman is 100 in strength, rate these characters in strength.

1. Thing 40
2. Colossus 33
3. Superboy 140
4. Power Girl (Kryptonian) 250
5. Wonder Woman 200

Originally posted by Juntai
Depends on what you consider Byrne era. Some people consider it when he stopped on the primary titles, but others consider it essentially until Jurgens took over, killed that Superman, and brought back the real Superman, and began powering him up. This is largely because they were still riding Byrne's plotting and power levels for some time after he left.

Confidential are hard to place in continuity precisely, and many are actually 'lost' stories from various eras and had no place in any of the primary books, and wouldn't get their own minis, because people would think they were current. And again, a few of the arcs were actually written by Byrne himself.

Most of the time you can figure it out by the cast and the way they act together, like who is in the Justice League, etc.

Byrne also was a creator on issue 50 in 1990, when Superman engaged Lois.

So the issue is before that

Byrne was a penciler. Jurgens wrote the issue.

Even if Writers were following Byrne after his run. That shouldn't have anything to do with Confidential sure Confidential was a back track but the time period would of been around an Era where Superman's depiction had went up again. Since confidential took place in 2006.

It could be argued I guess that this was a weaker Superman based on suit of how Byrne wrote him. But I'd personally doubt it given its a look back from a decade or 2 later.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Byrne was a penciler. Jurgens wrote the issue.

Even if Writers were following Byrne after his run. That shouldn't have anything to do with Confidential sure Confidential was a back track but the time period would of been around an Era where Superman's depiction had went up again. Since confidential took place in 2006.

It could be argued I guess that this was a weaker Superman based on suit of how Byrne wrote him. But I'd personally doubt it given its a look back from a decade or 2 later. I'm aware. That's why it says creator.

Regardless of publish date, the flashback story told is placed before issue 50. It's the Byrne era Superman.
Not to mention Byrne was the one doing Lori stories back in Man of Steel.

Originally posted by Juntai
I'm aware. That's why it says creator.

Regardless of publish date, the flashback story told is placed before issue 50. It's the Byrne era Superman.
Not to mention Byrne was the one doing Lori stories back in Man of Steel.

I still don't think that makes Superman weaker because it's a flashback that took place in an Era but is written 10 to 20 years later.

Aquaman Hookhand being bulletproof or resistance to bullets was pretty speculative during those Eras. He wasn't ever really stated resistant to bullets in the Hook hand days until a Flashback that happened in One Year Later.

Convergence also confirmed him being highly bullet resistance during his hook hand days.

Example wise. I don't think Flashbacks to earlier periods are made most of the time to set characters held back for stories. I don't the 2006 story that was set flashbacked to the "Byrne Era" suggest that Superman was put on that power level.

It's speculative though I'll admit.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
We don't see Superman break out of the choke hold we don't even know how he did it. For all we know Superman rammed him into the ocean floor to get him off. That's the problem with your analysis it's being over generous to something that lacks a lot of context. Overall it's Superman biast.


And its not Aquaman bias from your end? Are you seriously trying to say that Superman couldn't overpower ocean master?

Where is the proof?

It's not a lack of context. It's simple knowledge of the characters that Superman is a LOT stronger than Ocean Master. But you want your cake and eat it too.

Why would I do that? Are you trying to say that lifting a street is better than that? Be serious.



What logic? That pushing an overgrown moon is somehow comparable to lifting a street just because it's unquantifiable?

What logic is that?

Gimme a second.


Byrne Era ended with DOS. Superman was essentially at the same strength level till DOS.

That's the same Superman and his strength level was consistent with that era.



Struggled? By one panel which we don't see after?

You're so desperate its not even funny anymore. Should we create a Superman vs Ocean Master strength thread now?

Originally posted by abhilegend
And its not Aquaman bias from your end? Are you seriously trying to say that Superman couldn't overpower ocean master?

Where is the proof?

It's not a lack of context. It's simple knowledge of the characters that Superman is a LOT stronger than Ocean Master. But you want your cake and eat it too.

Why would I do that? Are you trying to say that lifting a street is better than that? Be serious.



What logic? That pushing an overgrown moon is somehow comparable to lifting a street just because it's unquantifiable?

What logic is that?

Gimme a second.


Byrne Era ended with DOS. Superman was essentially at the same strength level till DOS.

That's the same Superman and his strength level was consistent with that era.



Struggled? By one panel which we don't see after?

You're so desperate its not even funny anymore. Should we create a Superman vs Ocean Master strength thread now?

It's not I'm not making statements that I don't see unreasonable. I never said Ocean Master was stronger than Superman. That's you morphing my words into what you want it to sound like.

What I suggested was what a scan showed that Superman visibly struggled against Orm. You suggested Orm got overpowered and nowhere in the comic was that shown. You also suggested he casually got dismissed and again nowhere in the comic was that shown.

I can get why you stated that King Shark got dismissed, cause Superman tossed him away and we didn't see him again next panels over.

Honestly I don't get the logic in suggesting Power girl lifting/pushing/pulling an unquantifiable amount of the moon as greater. Cause honestly you've been struggling to give an exact amount of force she's moving, simply because you can't. It's not a single feat and there's stronger character than her present.

And Confidential happened about 2 decades after DOS, sure the story took place prior to DOS obvious by relationships in the story but nothing suggest powerlevels were dropped to fit into the story.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
It's not I'm not making statements that I don't see unreasonable. I never said Ocean Master was stronger than Superman. That's you morphing my words into what you want it to sound like.

Because you keep making one panel where Orm has Superman in a chokehold as Superman struggling. Another time Superman simply koed him by dropping a whale on him.

http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/29985719_week49-1999-Action-760-17-18.jpg

Under the same writer BTW.



Both things happened. Superman wasn't struggling "so bad" against Orm BTW. Nowhere was it shown.



King Shark never appeared again in the comic.



Haha, seriously? How do you figure that?



They are not thousands of times stronger than her and like I said even if she moved a thousandth part of the moon, its far above anything Aquaman has ever done. But seriously how big of a part do you think she moved?



Yes, they were. King Shark broke his teeth trying to bite present day Superman. BTW Power Girl tanking a quasar and moving in it.

http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29985725_08-2_green_lantern_-_circle_of_fire_02_28.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29985726_08-2_green_lantern_-_circle_of_fire_02_29.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29985768_08-2_green_lantern_-_circle_of_fire_02_33.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29985769_08-2_green_lantern_-_circle_of_fire_02_35.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because you keep making one panel where Orm has Superman in a chokehold as Superman struggling. Another time Superman simply koed him by dropping a whale on him.

http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/29985719_week49-1999-Action-760-17-18.jpg

Under the same writer BTW.



Both things happened. Superman wasn't struggling "so bad" against Orm BTW. Nowhere was it shown.



King Shark never appeared again in the comic.



Haha, seriously? How do you figure that?



They are not thousands of times stronger than her and like I said even if she moved a thousandth part of the moon, its far above anything Aquaman has ever done. But seriously how big of a part do you think she moved?



Yes, they were. King Shark broke his teeth trying to bite present day Superman. BTW Power Girl tanking a quasar and moving in it.

http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29985725_08-2_green_lantern_-_circle_of_fire_02_28.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29985726_08-2_green_lantern_-_circle_of_fire_02_29.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29985768_08-2_green_lantern_-_circle_of_fire_02_33.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29985769_08-2_green_lantern_-_circle_of_fire_02_35.jpg

I'd call that inconsistent then.

I think I have the comic with the Whale scan when I was finding scans for my Orm respect thread. A whale's physical force shouldn't be enough to KO Orm. Garth someone weaker has been crushed and remained conscious from a seabed said to be several thousands of tons being on him.

It looks like a just for jokes if anything but even regarding it. It would be one showing versus. The instance in choice where Superman is visibly struggling against Orm and then the instance in the Prelude to Obsidian Age. Where Orm was holding back Superman and Wonder Woman. I don't think I said "so bad" I said Superman was struggling which is evident with how he's drawn in the instance.

Never suggested King Shark reappeared in the comic. If Superman is shown present time from when he thrown King Shark and King Shark has been gone for several panels while Superman remained. I'd consider it a loss for KS no matter if he showed back up 30 minutes later or the next day. To much time was spent gone and a lot of stuff happened during that time period.

I'm not giving an amount to Powergirl's feat, my point was it's simply unquantifiable you can't make it a number that she hasn't displayed on her own is my point, and I feel like you know that reason why you won't place a legit number.

In regards to the Quasar feat it's impressive. I don't know how much force a massive Black hole generates but I'm sure it's a lot
I'll probably look into even. In regards to the discussion I'll play the same card you did though with the Starro/Orion feat and dismiss it as an inconsistency.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I'd call that inconsistent then.

I think I have the comic with the Whale scan when I was finding scans for my Orm respect thread. A whale's physical force shouldn't be enough to KO Orm. Garth someone weaker has been crushed and remained conscious from a seabed said to be several thousands of tons being on him.

The whale is being thrown by Superman and he can throw it a lot harder.

But yeah, take it up with the writer as you said.



JLA 68? He was outright stated to be amped and he was using magic to stop Superman and Diana. Once Superman got serious it was over anyway.

And no matter how many times you repeat it, Superman wasn't struggling against Orm.





Short term memory loss?

And no, it doesn't shows Superman struggling.



So in a roundabout way, you want to have your cake and eat it too. Again.



Being unquantifiable doesn't means its lower than lifting a ****ing street as you are implying.

Is it more impressive than Aquaman's biggest lifting feat? Yes or no. And on what basis its not?

You are simply being stubborn at this point.





And where is it that Power Girl struggled against a quasar that its inconsistent?

Where is any comparable feat from Aquaman BTW?

Originally posted by abhilegend
The whale is being thrown by Superman and he can throw it a lot harder.

But yeah, take it up with the writer as you said.



JLA 68? He was outright stated to be amped and he was using magic to stop Superman and Diana. Once Superman got serious it was over anyway.

And no matter how many times you repeat it, Superman wasn't struggling against Orm.





Short term memory loss?

And no, it doesn't shows Superman struggling.



So in a roundabout way, you want to have your cake and eat it too. Again.



Being unquantifiable doesn't means its lower than lifting a ****ing street as you are implying.

Is it more impressive than Aquaman's biggest lifting feat? Yes or no. And on what basis its not?

You are simply being stubborn at this point.





And where is it that Power Girl struggled against a quasar that its inconsistent?

Where is any comparable feat from Aquaman BTW?
I'm not suggesting that Superman couldn't throw something with enough force to knockout Orm. I'm questioning it being a whale though something Orm should be more durable than.

He wasn't stated to be amped in JLA 68. Wonder Woman suggested that he might be stronger in Atlantis then out of it which wasn't supported really by anything other then them struggling against Orm. That's not really an amp. Regardless it's irrelevant given most of Aquamans fights against Orm were guess where? In Atlantis.

On top of that "I can only Imagine" doesn't sound really supportive.
"His Native Soil" suggest Wonder Woman doesn't even know what she's talking about given Orm Post-Crisis wasn't born in Atlantis and couldn't even breathe underwater until Neron blessed him with power.

Yeah he was struggling. At this point it's just you in denial. I could somewhat give you "The Choice" being that it was one panel where Orm showed to be straining Superman, and it was a really short scuffle.

But Superman saying stuff like "Tell me *Grunts* I'm not crazy Orm's keeping us *Grunts* back with water" When you struggle to say a sentence and suggest your being kept in place and can't move forward. Then yeah your struggling. It reaffirms it by Superman has to dissipate the water with his Heat vision because neither him or Wonder Woman were able to physically overpower the wave.

http://i.imgur.com/lZ8hSF0.jpg

A blind kid could tell you that Superman was struggling in this image on top of that Wonder Woman who just perfectly this thread is in discussion of.

The blind kid would also be right.

Then quantify the feat then mate. Tell me how much force of the portion of the moon she was pushing she personally attributed.

The Quasar doesn't match up to anything you've shown in this thread so yeah I'd call it inconsistent up into this point of the thread.

The best personal feats for PG you've shown in the thread so far is lifting a City Size ship and Going through a Quasar.

What about the Feat that in the same exact comic Aquaman tanked something that Ko'd Orion. That you casually dismissed saying it was inconsistent.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I'm not suggesting that Superman couldn't throw something with enough force to knockout Orm. I'm questioning it being a whale though something Orm should be more durable than.

But he wasn't. End of story.



And he is using magic which was running rampant in Atlantis after Garth removed Atlantis from the time and Ganmanae took it over land.

This wasn't normal atlatis.



Have you even read the story? And what does using magic to repel Superman and Wonder Woman with water has to do with strength?





No, he wasn't. It was just a snapshot of the fight where Orm had Superman in a chokehold. That's it. Superman didn't struggle anywhere to break out of it.



Yes, magic is not overpowered by Superman's strength. That just made Orm stronger.

Somehow.



You are just being an idiot at this point.



More than lifting a street as I said it. Even if Superman was twice as strong as her and the rest were as strong or slightly stronger, she would be providing at least 1/10th of the force necessary to move the ****ing moon.



So her highest feat is inconsistent? Way to dismiss a feat. I call Aquaman lifting a city block inconsistent too.



And both are below lifting a street? Right?



Because it doesn't goes along with how the characters were portrayed. But hey we never see Aquaman being hit by the blast.

So using your logic as Superman never overpowered Orm, Arthur was never hit by the blast.

Easy.

And where are your ratings? Why don't you come out and say how strong you think Aquaman is?

Originally posted by abhilegend
But he wasn't. End of story.



And he is using magic which was running rampant in Atlantis after Garth removed Atlantis from the time and Ganmanae took it over land.

This wasn't normal atlatis.



Have you even read the story? And what does using magic to repel Superman and Wonder Woman with water has to do with strength?





No, he wasn't. It was just a snapshot of the fight where Orm had Superman in a chokehold. That's it. Superman didn't struggle anywhere to break out of it.



Yes, magic is not overpowered by Superman's strength. That just made Orm stronger.

Somehow.



You are just being an idiot at this point.



More than lifting a street as I said it. Even if Superman was twice as strong as her and the rest were as strong or slightly stronger, she would be providing at least 1/10th of the force necessary to move the ****ing moon.



So her highest feat is inconsistent? Way to dismiss a feat. I call Aquaman lifting a city block inconsistent too.



And both are below lifting a street? Right?



Because it doesn't goes along with how the characters were portrayed. But hey we never see Aquaman being hit by the blast.

So using your logic as Superman never overpowered Orm, Arthur was never hit by the blast.

Easy.

It was present day Atlantis..
Atlantis didn't sink until Aquaman sunk it. Reason why it was on land and not in the sea. Atlantis was sent back in time but the Atlantis shown their was Present Day Atlantis. There was no magical boost from it shown.

The force of the water being hydrokinetically capable of keeping Superman and Wonder Woman back obviously... His scepter gives him the ability to magically control the ocean hence Ocean Master.

Lol at Superman making Orm stronger with his strength.. that's why his Heat vision boiled the water right? It was water reason it was boiled and reason Superman called it water.. the lengths you go to are outstanding though..

So you finally give an answer and 1/10th it is? Where in the comic did it suggest Power Girl was lifting 1/10th of the moon may I ask.

I could show you were water is being suggested to holding back Superman and Wonder Woman. Show me where 1/10th of the moon is being suggested as moved by Power Girl..

You've been dismissing feats left in right so it's about time you take the city street feat.

Honestly what are you talking about Aquaman wasn't in the blast he was right in it his arm is shown in comparison to the rest of his body through the blast. And he was flown right through it when Zauriel went to go rescue him..

I already suggested where I'd place AC at the start of the thread. You must of dismissed it though using your preference like you have been.

And Ocean Master has worse lows than getting koed by a whale. Like getting beat up by Connor Hawke.

http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29985819_JLA_015_pg18.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29985820_JLA_015_pg19.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29985821_JLA_015_pg20.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
And Ocean Master has worse lows than getting koed by a whale. Like getting beat up by Connor Hawke.

http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29985819_JLA_015_pg18.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29985820_JLA_015_pg19.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29985821_JLA_015_pg20.jpg

Like Wonder Woman struggling with Batman several times? Or Deathstroke?

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
It was present day Atlantis..

Perhaps you should read the story. For the first time. Gamnanae had lifted the Atlantis and hid it for 3000 years.



You sure know how to distort a comic. Nearly everything is distorted from you.



And how does it factor into his strength?



Are you having a seizure? What are you talking about now?



It was a lower estimate. So Power Girl was doing nothing at all?



Water is suggested to hold back Superman and Wonder Woman by Orm's strength?

This is just getting ridiculous.

And it was suggested to keep everyone equal pressure or otherwise the moon would destabilize in other direction.



Right along with you. You dismissed everything from Superboy overpowering Aquaman in a direct fight.



But he was never shown to get attacked by the blast. So he never was.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I already suggested where I'd place AC at the start of the thread. You must of dismissed it though using your preference like you have been.
I want numbers and reasoning why Aquaman is stronger than Superboy or Power Girl.Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Like Wonder Woman struggling with Batman several times? Or Deathstroke?
Nope.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Perhaps you should read the story. For the first time. Gamnanae had lifted the Atlantis and hid it for 3000 years.



You sure know how to distort a comic. Nearly everything is distorted from you.



And how does it factor into his strength?



Are you having a seizure? What are you talking about now?



It was a lower estimate. So Power Girl was doing nothing at all?



Water is suggested to hold back Superman and Wonder Woman by Orm's strength?

This is just getting ridiculous.

And it was suggested to keep everyone equal pressure or otherwise the moon would destabilize in other direction.



Right along with you. You dismissed everything from Superboy overpowering Aquaman in a direct fight.



But he was never shown to get attacked by the blast. So he never was.

I have school and work so my replies will tank longer to get back and be quick to the point.

I never suggested Gamnanae didn't lift Atlantis. By present Day. I meant the action of Atlantis in the past were shown in the Present Day Era at the location they were at.

I really haven't distorted anything I misinterpreted one showing I'll admit cause I'm not to stubborn to dismiss when I make a mistake. A quality that would be nice if it went around..

She was doing what her greatest personal feat suggest she's capable of doing is my opinion on the matter. I wouldn't put it above that in all honesty cause there's nothing to support that.

I never suggested Water was Orm's strength is was more in mention to Superman and Wonder Woman struggling when fighting Orm. Who is an Aquaman main rouge. I went back to reread Obsidian Age and nowhere did it confirm any magical boost by the way. If anything Magic might of been hindered do to other sources. Given Tempest who defeated Orm struggled to cast a spell with some of DC's best mages.

Stuff like that would honestly be key but you haven't provided it? Where in the scan was it suggested that everyone apply equal pressure to the moon?

I haven't dismissed anything I questioned it and your interpretation of it. I didn't suggest Superboy didn't overpower Aquaman in the first encounter. All I said was Aquaman was holding back which was said twice by two different characters.

Arthur had scorch marks from the blast. This is irony at the term dismissive..

Originally posted by abhilegend
I want numbers and reasoning why Aquaman is stronger than Superboy or Power Girl.
Nope.

Superboy - 90, King Shark fights, the fact Arthur and Kon both said Arthur was holding back.

Power Girl - 95, Fight comparison against Tiamat, Greater personal lifting feats.

Might change my mind if there's actual scan proof Kon or Karen got an amp later on. With Karen's origin change or Kon just aging.

http://secondtosupes.tripod.com/ds.html

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I have school and work so my replies will tank longer to get back and be quick to the point.

Should I care?



And what does that has to do with anything? The Atlantis Ocean Master fought had abundance of magic and that amped him.



Yeah, right.



Haha, yeah right. Pushing a moon is not above lifting a street.

Good one.



That has nothing to do with the topic. Superman can struggle to paste pot pete due to magic and it makes little sense to include that in strength related topic.



Garth struggled because it was old magic and Gamenanae had set up a trap to send JLA back in time.



Its common sense as you are not having it. They are pushing the moon back in orbit. If there was uneven pressure from one side, it would generate a torque and push the moon out of orbit.



Aquaman never held back in strength. He held back when he didn't drown Superboy.



He didn't receive anything from that blast. Nowhere was it mentioned.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Superboy - 90, King Shark fights, the fact Arthur and Kon both said Arthur was holding back.

King Shark dominated Aquaman in strength as well.

He didn't hold back his strength.



Aquaman didn't fight Tiamat physically. He doesn't has any lifting feat better than lifting a city sized ship.



Diana took down Deathstroke casually when she wanted. Orm just got his shit kicked in by Connor Hawke.

Originally posted by abhilegend
If Pre Flashpoint Aquaman is 100 in strength, rate these characters in strength.

1. Thing
2. Colossus
3. Superboy
4. Power Girl (Kryptonian)
5. Wonder Woman

ben--100
petey--100
superboy (connor? as portrayed in the titans i assume?)--150
PG--180
ww--190

these are tough. the first 3 are all pretty close for the most part, imo. i'm going off a more general portrayal of arthur. he has feats that could place him closer to the girls, (yeah yeah, sub diego might indicate he's stronger than ben and pete, but again, GENERAL portrayals here....) but in general i think they are both depicted considerably stronger than he is.