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I'm raising all the TOR protags, now. HoT wins.

HoT

HoT.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I'm raising all the TOR protags, now. HoT wins.

Really, interesting why?

Well, I've always had them above where most people rank them. But I just don't think it's fair that they're all languishing in this sub-Kenobi area.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, I've always had them above where most people rank them. But I just don't think it's fair that they're all languishing in this sub-Kenobi area.

Yeah i agree.

They've never been sub-Kenobi, they're all at least Dooku tier as of Act III and only improved through the numerous wars after that until you get to Ziost, where they should each be significantly better.

The community has them as sub-Kenobi.

Not even I have them Sub-Kenobi(in the Force) anymore, lol. At least not 'Thor, Wrath and Nox, I don't know so much about HoT's force feats.

Vanilla Barsen'thor being able to destroy entire armies with the Force would put him on the caliber of Maul + Savage, perhaps even higher. And if HoT's stronger then that... do I need to continue my sentence?

I'm also playing around with the idea of ranking HoT and Wrath on par with Obi-Wan/Maul as duelists, or just a notch below.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Vanilla Barsen'thor being able to destroy entire armies with the Force would put him on the caliber of Maul + Savage, perhaps even higher. And if HoT's stronger then that... do I need to continue my sentence?

I'm also playing around with the idea of ranking HoT and Wrath on par with Obi-Wan/Maul as duelists, or just a notch below.
Yeah, forgot about that. 'Thor is ~Maul+ then, same with Nox and Wrath, HoT a bit higher, Outlander and Arcann just a notch below Dooku.
I have at least the HoT just under Obi-Wan/Maul/Mara, as duelist.

They are sub-Kenobi faggs, and should stay that way.

Originally posted by MythLord
They are sub-Kenobi faggs, and should stay that way.
Lmao xD Why?

Because Kenobi's hype and feats are all around better, and he's holistically meant to be greater.

Originally posted by MythLord
Because Kenobi's hype and feats are all around better, and he's holistically meant to be greater.
Hype? The HoT is meant to be the greatest Jedi of his time

Originally posted by MythLord
Because Kenobi's hype and feats are all around better, and he's holistically meant to be greater.

With evidence like that how could someone doubt your word.

Originally posted by TheKnight
With evidence like that how could someone doubt your word.
Lol. Enough people have Valkorion>Sidious, despite Sidious better hype and feats.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Hype? The HoT is meant to be the greatest Jedi of his time

And Kenobi is one of the absolute greatest Jedi of the Order's combative prime. At least a rivalling accolade, I'd argue.

And, in a 1v1 scenario, Kenobi is definitely taking sabers(stalemating Lord Vader, being noted as one of the most skilled Jedi in the Order's history as a padawan, being nearly Jinn's level as a padawan, handling Maul and Savage, giving Dooku pause, giving Vader a fight post-prime), and arguably taking Force(stalemating Lord Vader, collapsing four trees larger than a ship, disintegrating Durge, resisting a planetary nexus that was created by the meddling of Rule of Two Sith, that he likined to an army of Darth Mauls, being potentially capable of counter Dooku's choke; even if not true, that still puts him above the K'kruhk dominating Quinlan Vos, and Fay-heart-crushing Asajj Ventress).

Originally posted by MythLord
And Kenobi is one of the absolute greatest Jedi of the Order's combative prime. At least a rivalling accolade, I'd argue.

And, in a 1v1 scenario, Kenobi is definitely taking sabers(stalemating Lord Vader, being noted as one of the most skilled Jedi in the Order's history as a padawan, being nearly Jinn's level as a padawan, handling Maul and Savage, giving Dooku pause, giving Vader a fight post-prime), and arguably taking Force(stalemating Lord Vader, collapsing four trees larger than a ship, disintegrating Durge, resisting a planetary nexus that was created by the meddling of Rule of Two Sith, that he likined to an army of Darth Mauls, being potentially capable of counter Dooku's choke; even if not true, that still puts him above the K'kruhk dominating Quinlan Vos, and Fay-heart-crushing Asajj Ventress).
While I have HoT and co. near Kenobi in Sabers, they're definietly inferior, no question, imo?
They are also comparable in the Force then, thanks.

Obi-Wan isn't taking any of the protags in Force

Especially if HoT's above Barsen'thor, whose door feats and ability to destroy entire armies with the Force are simply beyond Kenobi's paygrade.

Wait, when did Barsen destroy entire armies?

The website claims he can.

Quote, please. HoT needed an amplification from Valky to unleash a Force Wave that murked maybe a dozen or so people, so I doubt he can go army-buster.

So 'Thor can disable or destroy an army of assassin droids.

The only problem is 'Thor has never been surrounded by a legitimate army of assassin droids, so this is just flowery hype for a game-class character, which is what the website and trailers primarily serve a purpose for.

I believe you brought up how the feats in the game-trailers meant to hype the product up should be taken with a grain of salt, recently? The website should be the same.

I questioned the progression trailer, not the main class trailer.

It's still just for commercial sakes, more than anything, because if 'Thor really is meant to be facing an army of assassin droids, then, well, EA has weird definitions of the word "army", I suppose.

Also, Barsen'Thor knows techniques like Electronic Manipulation that can disable droids, so... yeah

It's funny how new material is so hard for others to accept these days.

And using Electronic Manipulation on an army is still beyond Obi-Wan's paygrade, lmfao.

Originally posted by SunRazer
It's funny how new material is so hard for others to accept these days.

And using Electronic Manipulation on an army is still beyond Obi-Wan's paygrade, lmfao.

It's not hard to accept, it's just it completely seem to invalidate some limits placed within sources. Like I can post quotes about Obi being a respectable fraction of lightspeed, and argue he blitzes Barsen'Thor, but that'd just be stupid.

Also, we don't know how s/he takes down an army. We know s/he uses the Force for it, but is it just army one-shotting TK, or is it her/him battling his way through it with TK, lightsabers skills and other techniques ala Mace Windu?

Because of it's the latter -- and the more likely -- I'd argue Kenobi can definitely do it.

Originally posted by MythLord
It's not hard to accept, it's just it completely seem to invalidate some limits placed within sources. Like I can post quotes about Obi being a respectable fraction of lightspeed, and argue he blitzes Barsen'Thor, but that'd just be stupid.

Also, we don't know how s/he takes down an army. We know s/he uses the Force for it, but is it just army one-shotting TK, or is it her/him battling his way through it with TK, lightsabers skills and other techniques ala Mace Windu?

Because of it's the latter -- and the more likely -- I'd argue Kenobi can definitely do it.

That doesn't prove he'd blitz anything, since it isn't relative. That just brings everybody up more.

It says manipulating massive forces to disable or destroy. So it's not lightsaber attacks, just telekinesis.

Originally posted by SunRazer
That doesn't prove he'd blitz anything, since it isn't relative. That just brings everybody up more.

It says manipulating massive forces to disable or destroy. So it's not lightsaber attacks, just telekinesis.

It is relative to him, and would only bring up Tyranus, Anakin, Sidious, Mace or Yoda, sure... But not Barsen'Thor.

Massive forces is more than just telekinesis, however. And s/he obviously isn't one-shotting armies with a single telekinetic blast. It is likely it's just continuous burst of TK to take out squad after squad, which I can definitely see Kenobi doing if he actually decides to unleash his TK.

1. It'd bring up any respectable Jedi, unless you can explain why Jedi in the PT era suddenly have vastly greater perceptions.

2. I didn't say it was necessarily a one-shot, but it isn't "obvious" that that's not the case. There's just nothing else identified, but presumably, it's quick. Not too many telekinetic blasts.

How is being comparable to one of the most powerful and greatest Jedi of all time a bad thing? Being one of the greatest Jedi of your shitty era doesn't even begin to compare to Kenobi's accolades.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
How is being comparable to one of the most powerful and greatest Jedi of all time a bad thing? Being one of the greatest Jedi of your shitty era doesn't even begin to compare to Kenobi's accolades.

KEK at Kenobi being the greatest Jedi of all time.

I really don't see HoT being above 'Thor in Force. Imo, he's below 'Thor in Force, not substantially but noticeably, but can handle all of her attacks without getting overwhelmed.

HoT

They See me trolling, they hating......

Originally posted by SunRazer
The community has them as sub-Kenobi.

This is mostly be powerscaling them down from Arcann and Vitiate.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. It'd bring up any respectable Jedi, unless you can explain why Jedi in the PT era suddenly have vastly greater perceptions.

Even though the quote is only relevant to Kenobi? Hardly. It'd bring the PTers up a few notches, but certainly not TOR, who has a habit of making non-Force sensitives capable of killing Jedi and Sith.

Originally posted by SunRazer
2. I didn't say it was necessarily a one-shot, but it isn't "obvious" that that's not the case. There's just nothing else identified, but presumably, it's quick. Not too many telekinetic blasts.

Yeah, it is obvious when HoT, who is meant to rival/surpass 'Thor, needs the aid of Valkorion to one-shot a squad of non-Force sensitives easily. So it wasn't a one-shot, and there's no quick about it, just that 'Thor manages to finally destroy them after a struggle.

Given padawan Annie has fought droid armies, and murked them similarly, and Kenobi stalemated a more powerful version of the character, I'm willing to argue it is within Obi's capabilities to kill squad after squad of fodder.

Originally posted by MythLord

Yeah, it is obvious when HoT, who is meant to rival/surpass 'Thor, needs the aid of Valkorion to one-shot a squad of non-Force sensitives easily. So it wasn't a one-shot, and there's no quick about it, just that 'Thor manages to finally destroy them after a struggle.



Non force sensitives, right...

Originally posted by MythLord
Even though the quote is only relevant to Kenobi? Hardly. It'd bring the PTers up a few notches, but certainly not TOR, who has a habit of making non-Force sensitives capable of killing Jedi and Sith.

Yeah, it is obvious when HoT, who is meant to rival/surpass 'Thor, needs the aid of Valkorion to one-shot a squad of non-Force sensitives easily. So it wasn't a one-shot, and there's no quick about it, just that 'Thor manages to finally destroy them after a struggle.

Given padawan Annie has fought droid armies, and murked them similarly, and Kenobi stalemated a more powerful version of the character, I'm willing to argue it is within Obi's capabilities to kill squad after squad of fodder.

1. TCW has a habit of making Anakin fail to beat Senators in combat

2. That's pretty ludicrous. Nox has already done that on her own terms, IIRC

Also, I'm not going to mix KotFE with the vanilla game.

3. I don't imagine the quote's referring to the Barsen'thor killing squads over and over again, lol.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
This is mostly be powerscaling them down from Arcann and Vitiate.

You can do the reverse and scale them up. Especially because there's no threat of Vitiate surpassing Plagueis or Palpatine as per the quotes of supremacy in the latter two's favor.

Personally I think a decent comparison between HoT and Thor is that Thor struggles against Emperor's Children as far as Act III while the Hero takes one out no-prob mid Act I. Thats the one of the most direct comparisons we have imo.

People take novel blurbs as canon?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Personally I think a decent comparison between HoT and Thor is that Thor struggles against Emperor's Children as far as Act III while the Hero takes one out no-prob mid Act I. Thats the one of the most direct comparisons we have imo.

Kira isn't as good as the elites, I don't think.

Not Kira. One of the Children comes to try to take her back to the Emperor and you beat him.

Is there a reason to suggest that he compares to any of the elites? I mean, there are also Children of the Emperor serving as fodder enemies for you on Corellia.

I never got the impression that, apart from Kira and the First Son, the Emperor's Children differ in strength. That they exist as "fodder" for you in gameplay doesn't mean they were easy fights.

Considering they charge at you in groups, that would suggest that the Consular cut down several of them by Act III, which would still outclass that one in Act I for the HoT.

Also, what makes you think there's no level of differentiation? Surely the Emperor would endow different amounts of power to these Children?

Huh? Pretty sure the max you fight of them is 2 at a time, right before fighting the First Son.

Why would he do that? I think it makes more sense for him to give then the same amount.

I distinctly recall being attacked by a group of three, but I could be wrong.

Because then he could maintain a hierarchy within the Children, and use the more powerful ones to execute the lesser ones if they betray him?

Yeah, I think you are. I distinctly remember being impressed that you beat even 2 at a time, hence why its in my respect thread. I'd have sat up if you fought 3.

I don't think they can betray him, he can possess them at will like he does with even the incomplete Kira. The only hierarchy is First Son > rest, its not like they collaborate with each other.

Alright.

They collaborated in Act III, lol. But you're right in that their hierarchy isn't necessarily the same as that of the Sith.