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In what order would you place the following people in h2h skill

Elektra - Both TV and Movie feats apply
Daredevil - Both TV and movie feats apply
Batman (Bale)
Nite Owl
Black Widow
Clint
Stormshadow

Stormshadow
Daredevil
Elektra
Black Widow
Clint
Night Owl
Batman (Bale)

Originally posted by FrothByte
Stormshadow
Daredevil
Elektra
Black Widow
Clint
Night Owl
Batman (Bale)

Originally posted by FrothByte
Stormshadow
Daredevil
Elektra
Black Widow
Clint
Night Owl
Batman (Bale)

Though I'm not sure about Widow being below DD and Elektra. I'd put her above Elektra for sure at least

Originally posted by Arachnid1


Though I'm not sure about Widow being below DD and Elektra. I'd put her above Elektra for sure at least

I put DD and Elektra higher because these are apparently amalgam versions of their movie and TV selves. Movie Elektra went up against multiple superpowered opponents and won. Not exactly something that BW can boast about.

DD is higher than Elektra because he beat Bullseye who easily bested Elektra.

The above is pretty much true. Finally Froth!!!

Originally posted by FrothByte
Stormshadow
Daredevil
Elektra
Black Widow
Clint
Night Owl
Batman (Bale)

I am curious about your ranking of Stormshadow. I'm a big fan myself (my favorite G.I. Joe character), but curious which h2h showings are you using to base him no.1?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I am curious about your ranking of Stormshadow. I'm a big fan myself (my favorite G.I. Joe character), but curious which h2h showings are you using to base him no.1?

He's the only one I know who was able to cut a bullet in half. I don't think any of the other fighters have that kind of feat. He also survived getting stabbed and falling into freezing water.

Originally posted by FrothByte
He's the only one I know who was able to cut a bullet in half. I don't think any of the other fighters have that kind of feat. He also survived getting stabbed and falling into freezing water.

Right, but isn't that more of a weapons feat and a durability feat... not really a h2h feat

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Right, but isn't that more of a weapons feat and a durability feat... not really a h2h feat

I consider it a reaction and accuracy feat, since a sword blade is easily harder than bullet lead and should have no problem cutting it... provide the wielder is fast enough and accurate enough to catch the blade on the edge.

And durability is used in h2h fighting, so not sure why you think a durability feat is separate from a h2h fight?

So it's something that should give him the edge in h2h as long as none of the other fighters have similar feats. That said, I don't know if DD and Elektra have something similar. It's been some time since I watched those movies.

I'd actually put movie Elektra above movie Daredevil. Yes, she lost to Bullseye, who Matt beat. But she was infinitely more impressive in her own movie (even though the film itself was balls), and was dueling and defeating people with legit superpowers, IIRC.

MCU Daredevil > MCU Elektra though, and I honestly don't even think it's that close.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I consider it a reaction and accuracy feat, since a sword blade is easily harder than bullet lead and should have no problem cutting it... provide the wielder is fast enough and accurate enough to catch the blade on the edge.

And durability is used in h2h fighting, so not sure why you think a durability feat is separate from a h2h fight?

So it's something that should give him the edge in h2h as long as none of the other fighters have similar feats. That said, I don't know if DD and Elektra have something similar. It's been some time since I watched those movies.

No I understand perfectly how it applies to reactions, speed and how durability helps in a fight. Luckily though, this question is SOLELY about skill. Who is more skilled in h2h combat. Durability has nothing to do with skill. Speed can help execute skill faster and more decisively, but it's not how you'd typically define skill.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
No I understand perfectly how it applies to reactions, speed and how durability helps in a fight. Luckily though, this question is SOLELY about skill. Who is more skilled in h2h combat. Durability has nothing to do with skill. Speed can help execute skill faster and more decisively, but it's not how you'd typically define skill.

I think you're talking about technique and not skill. H2H skill implies how efficient one is in h2h combat, and that include strength, speed, reflexes and technique. When we talk about Mayweather's skill, it is understood that his quickness is part of that skill. When we talk about Tyson's skill, it's understood that his power is part of that skill.

Now if you just want to talk about technique, that's a different topic.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I think you're talking about technique and not skill. H2H skill implies how efficient one is in h2h combat, and that include strength, speed, reflexes and technique. When we talk about Mayweather's skill, it is understood that his quickness is part of that skill. When we talk about Tyson's skill, it's understood that his power is part of that skill.

Now if you just want to talk about technique, that's a different topic.

Again though, you mistakenly put forth durability in there as well, which you've now dropped all together. Even in your all inclusive skill definition, durability has no place in any h2h skill discussion. I even don't think skill does either, maybe in a general overall sense. Even in the example you gave, I wouldn't list speed as a skill of Mayweather. Just doesn't jive.

Skill in boxing refers to things like, how well somebody uses angels to avoid to connect with punches. How well one counterpunches. How good somebodys' parrying or defense is. How well somebody throws a cross or a hook and how much power they can generate with it. Those are some of the things you'd typical define as a boxers skill. Stuff like speed, quickness, durability, recovery speed are typically defined as attributes, not skill. Again though, I get what you're saying.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Again though, you mistakenly put forth durability in there as well, which you've now dropped all together. Even in your all inclusive skill definition, durability has no place in any h2h skill discussion. I even don't think skill does either, maybe in a general overall sense. Even in the example you gave, I wouldn't list speed as a skill of Mayweather. Just doesn't jive.

Skill in boxing refers to things like, how well somebody uses angels to avoid to connect with punches. How well one counterpunches. How good somebodys' parrying or defense is. How well somebody throws a cross or a hook and how much power they can generate with it. Those are some of the things you'd typical define as a boxers skill. Stuff like speed, quickness, durability, recovery speed are typically defined as attributes, not skill. Again though, I get what you're saying.

My bad, durability should still be in there. I think it's silly to think one can discuss skill without taking into account a person's physical qualities, since skill is very much a physical aspect. It seems weird that you're willing to include power as part of skill but not speed.

But ok, let's say we were to go with your definition of skill, how then would you rank these people in terms of skill and why would you rank them as such?

anything you use, weather prerenatural or a learned skill is included when discussing how good somebody is at h2h combat. This includes technique, durability, speed, strength, power etc. Its ridiculous to they and come at this comparison without including all the physical aspects that could make a fighter great.

This i why in UFC video games you have the options of raising your custom characters stats into roughly these 5 categories... Its because they all matter in a fight...

Originally posted by relentless1
anything you use, weather prerenatural or a learned skill is included when discussing how good somebody is at h2h combat. This includes technique, durability, speed, strength, power etc. Its ridiculous to they and come at this comparison without including all the physical aspects that could make a fighter great.

This i why in UFC video games you have the options of raising your custom characters stats into roughly these 5 categories... Its because they all matter in a fight...

Please stop making me holding your hand here. Nobody is saying durability isn't important in a fight, it absolutely is. However, it's NOT important when somebody is asking SPECIFICALLY about skill. I don't know what is so confusing about that. It's like me asking which boxer has the better right cross, and you name somebody with the best jab, and go... "Well jabs are equally important in a fight". Well, I didn't ask about a jab, though a jab is very important in a fight. Understand the difference? How durable somebody is, has zero bearing on their skill level.

Originally posted by FrothByte
My bad, durability should still be in there. I think it's silly to think one can discuss skill without taking into account a person's physical qualities, since skill is very much a physical aspect. It seems weird that you're willing to include power as part of skill but not speed.

But ok, let's say we were to go with your definition of skill, how then would you rank these people in terms of skill and why would you rank them as such?

Durability unquestionably isn't there, nor should it be. Think of it this way... If we have Jet Li facing.. Mark Hunt or pick a dude with great durability. If I ask who is more skilled, you wouldn't even think to say Mark Hunt. To go further, as Mark Hunt is being outclassed skill wise, but just trucks through the attacks and lands a bomb... Does that make him more skilled? Of course not. Durability has no place in a skills only discussion. It has bearing on a overall fight discussion, not one focused only on skill

Ummmm... I think your list is pretty accurate. Though it would depend on the criteria for SS. He doesn't really have many h2h feats only where he was able to showcase his skill level. But based on implied skill based on other things he's done... maybe he is the best. He's hard to judge, the rest I mostly agree with your list.

Durability is trainable. And there's a skill involved in learning how to absorb blows, roll with hits or even just blocking with the correct body parts.

But if you agree with my list then I don't see the need to really debate about it.

all of thee attributes can be taught, henceforth they are a skill