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Dooku > Malgus in everything

But the fight could hinge on if Ventress can withstand Thanatons lightning/sorcery

Dooku > Malgus
Ventress > Thanaton

Dooku ~ Malgus
Ventress > Thanaton

Team 2 takes it, yeah.

Thanaton > Ventress.

Thanaton never impressed me that much, especially as a warrior. Plus, PT people are always going to be selected when in doubt because they're more documented than TOR characters.

Thats a terrible way to decide things. And Thanaton should impress you. Nox walked in on him with 2 force ghosts amping her and Thanaton still stomped her and Khem instantly.

It's a terrible a way but it's done.

I'm aware of Thanaton feats I just think they aren't as decisive. If Ventress close the distance and quickly attacks him, he's fuc***

He managed to hold off Kressh for a time far before his prime.

But if Ventress close the distance, it's going to be difficult for him to find an opening to use his powers and in a lightsaber fight, Ventress is going to overwhelm him.

True enough.

Let's put the starting distance at 7 meters. Not too close and not too far to put either side at a disadvantage.

Thanaton's sorcery is an interesting feat given its potency, but I assume it doesn't work on beings stronger than himself since he didn't attempt it again on the stronger Nox that had bound 4 spirits to him/herself. There might be the issue of how long it takes him to prepare it as well given that Nox had to fight two of his apprentices before he decided to employ it. Also he refers to rituals before he uses his technique, which usually take time. Not to mention the attack takes several seconds to take affect, which Dooku could take advantage of to disrupt.

I'd still give it to Team 1, but reviewing Thanaton's feats, he just doesn't look very impressive at all. His pre-prime fight vs Exal were both losses on his part, with his victory only resulting from a cheapshot in the second fight. His lightning has the potency to kill large beasts pre-prime, but during the Inquisitor Campaign, his lightning hasn't really done anything. It's flashy and and showy, but it hasn't really killed anyone to my knowledge; I honestly wouldn't put thanaton's lightning over Dooku's. And thanaton's trump card of sorcery is just difficult to gauge given how he under-uses it in dire times, like his final confrontation with Nox. He's definitely the weakest antag of the FS campaigns, and claims like he could solo Maul and Savage have yet to be substantiated.

Depends. Thanaton's spell whatever that nearly killed Nox in Act II would probably destroy Ventress. Dooku takes Malgus, though.

As we saw with Nox, Thanaton can use a Lightning Storm to buy himself time to fly to a distance if he needs to, even with Nox at that kind of range.

Plus don't forget that this is a team battle. If Malgus see's Thanaton being overwhelmed in sabers he can throw out a push or bolt to buy him some time.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
It's a terrible a way but it's done.

I'm aware of Thanaton feats I just think they aren't as decisive. If Ventress close the distance and quickly attacks him, he's fuc***

He isn't, you're severely underestimating him. Besides which he can use his ritual attack near instantly. No idea why you don't think of that as decisive. He took out Nox and Khem with the utmost of decisiveness.

Originally posted by Solar Power
There might be the issue of how long it takes him to prepare it as well given that Nox had to fight two of his apprentices before he decided to employ it.

He used an attack on Nox before it which Nox blocked. He didn't prep for his ritual attack.

dooku solos on his best day

Originally posted by SunRazer
Dooku takes Malgus, though.

Really doubting that tbh. While I would give Dooku the edge as a duelist Malgus is both a Djem So practitioner and holds a substantial physical edge over the Count. I lean Malgus.

There's nothing stating Malgus is a Djem so practioner. Honestly, he looks more like a Juyo practioner that takes advantage of his strenght.

Does it matter? The only part of Djem So Dooku mentioned as a problem was the strength, which Malgus has. Its not like the form is itself Dooku's kryptonite.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
dooku solos on his best day

Next joke.

The fact that Sidious choose Malgus as his archetype sith warrior and lavished him with some insane praises - a guy who had lived 3600 years before him and the fact he used Malgus journal to inspire Vader is very huge.

Sidious also used Malgus' example to teach Vader how a warrior should channel his rage effectively in battle.

He should be easily Dooku tier.

FFS, Malgus hasn't got shit on Dooku.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Does it matter? The only part of Djem So Dooku mentioned as a problem was the strength, which Malgus has. Its not like the form is itself Dooku's kryptonite.

I just don'y want the misconception that Malgus = Djem So being thrown around liberally.

My TOR has waned in people's power ranking scales

Anakin is stronger than Malgus anyway.

From what we can see from the trailers and various descriptions of Malgus from Deceived he obviously incorporates elements of Shien in his fighting style and given his own incredible physical strength it only makes sens that he'd choose a form that would best take advantage of it ( I.E. Djem So ).

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Anakin is stronger than Malgus anyway.

Anakin being physically stronger is honestly debatable.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
From what we can see from the trailers and various descriptions of Malgus from Deceived he obviously incorporates elements of Shien in his fighting style and given his own incredible physical strength it only makes sens that he'd choose a form that would best take advantage of it ( I.E. Djem So ).

For me he looks more like a Juyo who encorporates Djem So.

Well, my position is further backed up by Sidious giving Vader Malgus's notes and journals. Given Vader's main form was Djem So with his fighting style incorporating a mix of the other forms it's likely Malgus applied something similar. It may have even inspired Vader to develop it in the way that he did.

Team 1 solidly. Ventress gets molested by Thanaton's sorcery, and Malgus is already on par with Dooku, so they duke it out until Thanaton finishes scraping Vntress off his boot.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He used an attack on Nox before it which Nox blocked. He didn't prep for his ritual attack.

That's true, I guess whether or not you think Ventress gets one shot is determined by how highly you rank her then. Team 1 definitely takes it for me then, for the reasons that Tondemonai stated.

However, I'd just like to say that I don't think Thanaton is substantially above Ventress as a combatant, just that his arsenal is better suited for fighting her.

What feats does Malgus have that put him on par with Dooku? What hype does he have that's better than Dooku's? Don't just give me that Malgus is stronger, has the form advantage and that makes up the difference.

Malgus having shaken an enormous transport with his rage, downed several fighters with a force scream, held an accelerating ship in place all before his prime and in his False Emperor incarnation breaking through the force defenses of the two force using protagonists ( Thor and HoT or Nox and Wrath ) simultaneously. He's also hyped as being one of Sidious's most powerful successors and one of the greatest Sith warriors in the Galaxy while he was still an apprentice.

Dooku and Asajj take sabers and all-out; Force is debatable, though Ventress' combative capability with it should not be underestimated.

In the Book of the Sith Sidious tracked five texts that, in some way or another, he considered fundamental to the Sith philosophy. Bane for example, was selected by his philosophical insights, Sorzus Syn was selected due to his ability with Sith alchemy and some others. Malgus solely due his battle prowess.

Malgus journal was also used by Sidious to inspire and to teach Vader how to channel his anger into power in a proper way.

Plus, according to Sidious, Malgus was an exemplary warrior whose battlefield feats had never been duplicated.

The fact that Vader himself can be inspired by Malgus' feats is an obvious indication that they are not trivial(how someone can be inspired by something they can easily replicate? Plus, it's completely consistent with "never duplicated" thing)

Saber advantage definitely goes to Team 2 and Ventress is a formidable force user having caused explosions with them and broken Obi Wan's barrier. I do believe Malgus and Thanaton take the Force round pretty decisively and due to their various advantage take all out.

Originally posted by MythLord
Dooku and Asajj take sabers and all-out; Force is debatable, though Ventress' combative capability with it should not be underestimated.

Team TOR solidly

Darth Malgus > Count Dooku
Darth Thanaton >>> Asajj Ventress

How do they win sabers? Lel.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
FFS, Malgus hasn't got shit on Dooku. He ragdolled 4 protagonists...

Soundly beat Kao Cen Darach, Ven Zallow.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
He ragdolled 4 protagonists...

Soundly beat Kao Cen Darach, Ven Zallow.

Dooku could too...

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Dooku could too...
He couldn't ragdoll Wrath+Nox/HoT+'Thor. But neither could Malgus, lmao.
Yeah, he would wreck Kao/Ven

Originally posted by Ursumeles
He couldn't ragdoll Wrath+Nox/HoT+'Thor. But neither could Malgus, lmao.
Yeah, he would wreck Kao/Ven In the beginning of the fight, in a cutscene, he does it.

The fact that Malgus can compete at all, puts Malgus automatically above Dooku as a combatant.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
In the beginning of the fight, in a cutscene, he does it.

The fact that Malgus can compete at all, puts Malgus automatically above Dooku as a combatant.
Could you give me a link? If it is just short, btw, it could be similar to Asajj choking Anakin/Kenobi or Savage choking Dooku/Asajj.

He doesn't ragdoll at all. He just Pushes them back, when their defenses were obviously down (they're not in any combat stance).

Originally posted by SunRazer
He doesn't ragdoll at all. He just Pushes them back, when their defenses were obviously down (they're not in any combat stance).
Lol. While I rank Malgus higher sice a few days, thanks to Syn, he doesn't approach the likes of Dooku or Traya, then.

I think it's unfair to say that he fails to approach someone like Dooku entirely. It's not like Tyranus could just ragdoll him at will. But I do think that the Count is on another level of power, and that Malgus is more comparable to Maul in the Force.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I think it's unfair to say that he fails to approach someone like Dooku entirely. It's not like Tyranus could just ragdoll him at will. But I do think that the Count is on another level of power, and that Malgus is more comparable to Maul in the Force.
Yeah, "not approach" is a bit hard, tbh. More like losing every round. Well, against Traya in Force only and All-Out, and against Dooku in Sabers, All-Out and maybe also Force.

Originally posted by SunRazer
He doesn't ragdoll at all. He just Pushes them back, when their defenses were obviously down (they're not in any combat stance). Combat stance = On guard?

Hell no.

They obviously weren't prepared for his TK, lol.

Which is why when it came to the actual battle, they defeated him.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I think it's unfair to say that he fails to approach someone like Dooku entirely. It's not like Tyranus could just ragdoll him at will. But I do think that the Count is on another level of power, and that Malgus is more comparable to Maul in the Force.

I can't see Dooku lasting more then 30 seconds against the team that Malgus faces.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
I can't see Dooku lasting more then 30 seconds against the team that Malgus faces.
Lol. He lasted against a superior team longer. Also, what evidence do you have for Malgus lasting longer?

Anakin and Obi-Wan aren't superior to 4 TOR protags, lol.

If it's the same ones that struggle against HK-47, yes, they are

Originally posted by Nephthys
Anakin and Obi-Wan aren't superior to 4 TOR protags, lol.
Weren't two of them non-force-sensitive? If so, yes they are.

Originally posted by SunRazer
If it's the same ones that struggle against HK-47, yes, they are

Like Anakin and Obi-Wan have never struggled against worse opponents.....

HK was prepped and had substantial aid in the fight.

It's the same ones who beat Revan, more like (or and equal/superior team).

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Weren't two of them non-force-sensitive? If so, yes they are.

Those non-force sensitives were highly capable of holding their own at that point. I trust I don't need to remind you that all of the non-force sensitives have whooped Sith Lords including Cipher 9 fighting Jadus, the Champ beating Darth Tormen and the Jedi Battlemaster. Not to mention that any of them can tag Arcann with a blaster.

When supported by the 2 force users, their capabilities would be substantially increased.

That Malgus couldn't ragdoll them is still shig, lel. At best, Cipher 9 is Jango level imo, and the rest of them is below him. So, yeah, Anakin+Obi>4 TOR Protags.

but....... he did ragdoll them

Cipher 9 is only Jango level for dueling semi-evenly with the greatest Sith Vitiates empire ever produced, capable of teleportation and shielding a capital ship from destruction..... right.

Originally posted by Nephthys
but....... he did ragdoll them

Cipher 9 is only Jango level for dueling semi-evenly with the greatest Sith Vitiates empire ever produced, capable of teleportation and shielding a capital ship from destruction..... right.
So...why he didn't won, then?

Sure. 1. Jadus is a shitty combat
2. How did Cipher not won through PIS, lel?

Anakin and Obi-Wan would also beat Foundry Revan

Originally posted by SunRazer
Anakin alone would also beat Foundry Revan

Doubtful, but whatever. The Protags weren't at full power at that point either, Nox didn't even have her full ghosts and complete control.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
So...why he didn't won, then?

Sure. 1. Jadus is a shitty combat
2. How did Cipher not won through PIS, lel?

Because he's fighting 4 of the greatest champions at once, lol. Everyone seems to have a real problem with this very simple concept that he's fight FOUR of them at once. Just because he can ragdoll 3 if them at once doesn't mean he can maintain that while the Hero of Tython wails on him in sabers.

Worse than AotC Kenobi? Lol, ok.

That sentence makes no sense.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Doubtful, but whatever. The Protags weren't at full power at that point either, Nox didn't even have her full ghosts and complete control.



Because he's fighting 4 of the greatest champions at once, lol. Everyone seems to have a real problem with this very simple concept that he's fight FOUR of them at once. Just because he can ragdoll 3 if them at once doesn't mean he can maintain that while the Hero of Tython wails on him in sabers.

Worse than AotC Kenobi? Lol, ok.

That sentence makes no sense.
But do we have evidence for him ragdolling even one?

Could be.

Didn't Cipher won through PIS?

Also, we don't must discuss Cipher 9 anymore. If Malgus ragdolled him, he probably oneshotted him.
Also, if you can ragdoll someone, you usually are able to remove them grom zhe fight. Like Dooku did against Kenobi, while facin Skywalker. Why didn't Malgus do the same against 'Thor?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
But do we have evidence for him ragdolling even one?

Could be.

Didn't Cipher won through PIS?

It happens so, uh, yes???? Just watch the fight, at certain points he chokes out 3 of the combatants while going solo against the 4th while TP'ing them. He could easily ragdoll Obi-Wan while fighting Anakin. Hell, with his TP he'd win.

Hell no.

I mean, they "won" by damaging him so he starts healing himself in the middle of the room, letting them trap him in a force field.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Also, we don't must discuss Cipher 9 anymore. If Malgus ragdolled him, he probably oneshotted him.

Also, if you can ragdoll someone, you usually are able to remove them grom zhe fight. Like Dooku did against Kenobi, while facin Skywalker. Why didn't Malgus do the same against 'Thor?

He didn't. Also "don't must", lol.

Well, I guess this was an unusual case then because they were still in the fight after he was forced to break their hold. Probably didn't have the opportunity to do that since he was still fighting the last team member.

1. Non game mechanic evidence? :/
2. He hasn't done anything that puts him above AotC Kenobi as combatant.
3. So, Jadus>Cipher 9? Kewl.
4. Malgus can't oneshot an non-force sensitive? He is clearly >Dooku. Note: Legends Dooku, before you counter with the pirate showing. Also, he probably could, but why didn't he?
5. Why he didn't ragdolled him anymore, then?

1. Sure. During a non-gameplay mechanic scripted event, Malgus ragdolls 3 of the team while TP'ing and fighing the 4th. This is recognised in the OOU text box and with text on screen as occurring.

2. Vitiate called him the greatest Sith ever produced in his Empire. He is vaaaaaastly more powerful than Obi-Wan. Come on.

3. No shit. It doesn't make Cipher 9 fodder or anything. The feat is still incredible. To harm a being of that power is one of the best feats for a non-force sensitive.

4. Don't be facetious, it doesn't suit you. Loads of people have fought non-force sensitives without one-shotting them. Like, I dunno, Revan? They had 2 highly powerful force using team mates as back up. Its obvious it wouldn't be that easy.

5. He probably couldn't maintain the hold while dueling an opponent on that level. The strain of ragdolling 1 of the force using TOR protags would be significant even without having to fight the other at the same time.

1. Could I have the quote?
2. Sure, he could potentially ragdoll Kenobi. I still could see Kenobi beating him, like Cipher 9 did.
3. Yes, Cipher 9 is impressive. Imo besides Grievous, YV and the Fetts the most impressive non-force sensitivey. But Jadus- who is vastly more powerful than Kenobi, who destroyed Durge, who has better durability feats than Cipher- should be able to ragdoll Cipher.
4. If Kenobi can do that to Durge. Also, Malgus ragdolled them after you- and suddenly stoped?
5. Eh, he should be able to make a Dooku, but fair enough.

"Non-gameplay" lmfao

It occurs exactly during gameplay.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
1. Could I have the quote?
2. Sure, he could potentially ragdoll Kenobi. I still could see Kenobi beating him, like Cipher 9 did.
3. Yes, Cipher 9 is impressive. Imo besides Grievous, YV and the Fetts the most impressive non-force sensitivey. But Jadus- who is vastly more powerful than Kenobi, who destroyed Durge, who has better durability feats than Cipher- should be able to ragdoll Cipher.
4. If Kenobi can do that to Durge. Also, Malgus ragdolled them after you- and suddenly stoped?
5. Eh, he should be able to make a Dooku, but fair enough.

1. "The time has come. must face Malgus alone!"

2. "Potentially"? Lol. And nah. Kenobi lacks Cipher 9'd stealth abilities or ability to fight without directly engaging him. As a Jedi he'd directly fight Jadus and get pwned.

3. And I'm sure he obviously could have if Cipher hadn't of fought so well and given him no opportunity to do so.

4. After Durge at him, while Kenobi was able to fully focus on him. Malgus is fighting 4 people, the situation is wildly different. He stops after a while, yes.

5. Ok.

1. What do you say to Novas: "It occurs exactly during gameplay."?
2. Good, then Kenobi couldn't. But Jango. Also, didn't the strike team attacked Malgus directly?
4. Yeah, but Malgus is in your opinion vastly more powerful then Kenobi, and the durability of the non-force sensitive TOR Protags don't comes close to Durges.

1. Its a scripted event that always occurs during the fight. The developers intended for it to happen during the fight. The fact that it's narrated as occurring by OOU text cements it as canonical.

2. Cipher 9 possesses a stealth field generator and is capable of vanishing while Malgus fights the other members.

3. Like I said, Malgus is fighting other opponents, unlike Kenobi. And he's not literally inside his opponents and capable of blowing them up with a force wave. Its obvious that he was simply unable to apply lethal force in that kind of team fight. Especially against opponents who survive fights with Revan, the Dread Masters, Arcann, Soa and numerous other powerful force users.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Lol. While I rank Malgus higher sice a few days, thanks to Syn, he doesn't approach the likes of Dooku or Traya, then.

They entered the room to fight the most powerful Sith in the Galaxy at the time. They'd be utterly retarded to not have their defenses up whether they were "in a battle stance" or not.

Like Agen and Tiin against Sidious?

When Tiin and Kolar were blitzed by Sidious. There's nothing indicating their defenses were lowered aside from Tiin who was tricked into doing so.

I mean, Agen and Tiin did have their sabers drawn and were ready for a fight. So no idea wtf thats about.

How long would it take for Thanaton to gather an FL storm to oneshot Ventress?