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How does this go down?

I think that Colossus should win this, but Luke is strong, skilled and tough enough that Piotr isn't going to have an easy time of it IMO. That being said, I still have a couple of episodes of Luke Cage to watch, so not 100% up to date on feats yet.

Who is stronger?

Hard to say. I want to say Colossus, but I really am not sure. Thing with Luke is that while he doesn't always have the most flashy feats (though he does have a couple of decent ones in his series), it's the ease with which he does things that's impressive. Like in the beginning of the one episode, he's picking up/shifting/tossing around big pieces of concrete rubble/wall segments etc. and while he is putting in some visible effort, he doesn't seem close to overexerting himself. Or the safe door. He just grabbed the handle with one hand and pulled, and the thing popped off like a Pringles cap.

Colossus don't really have any strength feats.

Well, he does have some indicators of decent strength, like smacking Wade into a car hard enough to leave a huge dent. But, based on what I've seen in Luke Cage so far, Luke could do similar if he cut loose (he's explicitly stated that he holds back in fights so as not to kill anyone). During the one fight with a person I won't go into details about, due to spoilers, he picks him up and bodily tosses him probably a good 40+ feet, through a door and into a pillar, hard enough to daze the guy (and the guy was wearing what looked like body armour). And the impressive thing is, he did it with a belly full of alien tech shrapnel.

The only feats of Colossus I recall are throwing that huge tire and easily lifting that big concrete slab with one hand.

Probably Colossus in a drawn out fight.

Gotta go with Colossus here. I've seen Cage's series and Jessica Jones'. Cage has been KOd a couple of times. Colossus, though relatively new, has no weak showings.

Cage seems weak to me compared to Colossus.

Colossus takes it.

Cage has more feats but has also shown to get knocked out by strong enough forces. Colossus didn't even seem close to getting KO'd in the movie. So I'd probably lean toward Colossus...

That's why I leaned towards Colossus too. If being on ground zero of Negasonic's detonation couldn't KO him, Cage won't.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
That's why I leaned towards Colossus too. If being on ground zero of Negasonic's detonation couldn't KO him, Cage won't.

I'm also unsure if Cage can send Deadpool flying with as casual a slap as Colossus did.

Problem where Luke is concerned is that we still don't really have the best idea of just how hard he can hit when he cuts loose. He made a point of never hitting anyone too hard because, as he said, if he hit people like he wanted to, he'd straight up kill them. But the fact that he could KO people with little more than taps on the head shows some serious strength. There were numerous instances where he basically just tapped/lightly slapped people and knocked them out cold.

He did punch send Jessica across a dance floor with under Purple Man's control about 15 feet

That's nothing. Thinking about it, there is evidence to suggest Cage could replicate that feat. During the scene where the two cops corner and try to arrest him, he sends one of them flying 20+ feet onto the police car with a one handed shove, and the guy landed hard enough to break the windshield and dent the hood. And Luke wasn't even trying to hurt them, and had a belly full of alien tech shrapnel. If he can do that under those circumstances, he can probably do much worse if fully fit and really trying.

Colossus got smacked around by Angel Dust quite a bit, almost making me think that Cage might be more durable than Colossus. The only time Cage really seemed to feel pain or take serious punishment was when he was already wounded from the alien Judas bullets. Not sure how he'd take a punch to the nuts but when he stopped holding back against Diamondback he ended the fight pretty quickly. Also, I don't know how much actual fighting experience Colossus has compared to Cage's time in the ring, where he showed some decent skills. Since they are probably close in strength I might give a slight edge to Cage, simply because he has more screen time and therefore more feats.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Colossus got smacked around by Angel Dust quite a bit, almost making me think that Cage might be more durable than Colossus. The only time Cage really seemed to feel pain or take serious punishment was when he was already wounded from the alien Judas bullets. Not sure how he'd take a punch to the nuts but when he stopped holding back against Diamondback he ended the fight pretty quickly. Also, I don't know how much actual fighting experience Colossus has compared to Cage's time in the ring, where he showed some decent skills. Since they are probably close in strength I might give a slight edge to Cage, simply because he has more screen time and therefore more feats.

Do you think Colossus would have gotten KOd by a shotgun to the face or a rocket launcher?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Do you think Colossus would have gotten KOd by a shotgun to the face or a rocket launcher?

Based on the fact that a punch to the nuts nearly took him out of the fight it's clear he has some weaknesses - whether they are exactly the same as Cage's would be difficult to say. If his brain is not made of metal then I would say yes, it is possible for him to get knocked out and suffer from concussion, but how much force you would need to apply and where would only be speculation. The high impact close range shotgun blast upwards to Cage's brain was very deliberately aimed by Jessica to target his weakness, as was the punch to Colossus's groin.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Based on the fact that a punch to the nuts nearly took him out of the fight it's clear he has some weaknesses - whether they are exactly the same as Cage's would be difficult to say. If his brain is not made of metal then I would say yes, it is possible for him to get knocked out and suffer from concussion, but how much force you would need to apply and where would only be speculation. The high impact close range shotgun blast upwards to Cage's brain was very deliberately aimed by Jessica to target his weakness, as was the punch to Colossus's groin.

Colossus was punched in the groin by someone with superstrength who was already capable of hurting him with regular hits. DP punched him in the nuts IIRC and DP just broke his hand.

So it's not like Colossus has a weakness there.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Colossus was punched in the groin by someone with superstrength who was already capable of hurting him with regular hits. DP punched him in the nuts IIRC and DP just broke his hand.

So it's not like Colossus has a weakness there.

Except that Cage has superstrength at the very least comparable to Angel Dust and Colossus, so if a punch from Angel Dust is going to hurt I'm willing to bet that a punch from Cage will hurt at least as much.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Except that Cage has superstrength at the very least comparable to Angel Dust and Colossus, so if a punch from Angel Dust is going to hurt I'm willing to bet that a punch from Cage will hurt at least as much.

And Colossus recovered quite quickly from that hit. It's not quite the same as Cage getting KO'd by a shotgun.

I feel like the shotgun is kind of PIS at this point. Even if the force of the blast was aimed pretty much directly at his brain stem (the tip of the barrel was pressed just behind the chin bone, so just skin, and a little bit of muscle and soft tissue between that and his brain), it shouldn't have caused the level of damage it did. As we see when Claire tries to cut inside him, and then even Luke himself tries, his internal organs are nearly as tough as the rest of him. For the shotgun to do what it did, things like the rocket launcher, followed by the building collapsing on him, should have done at least some degree of longer term internal damage, which it didn't.

Edit: Still, I would say Negasonic's explosion, which then sent him flying into metal scaffolding, IIRC, is comparable to the rocket launcher thing. And Colossus wasn't KO'd, whereas Luke was.

Originally posted by FrothByte
And Colossus recovered quite quickly from that hit. It's not quite the same as Cage getting KO'd by a shotgun.

The fact that he recovered isn't as important as the fact that he showed he was vulnerable and that Cage could use those weaknesses to take him down, just like Angel Dust did. This is H2H, I assume, since neither combatant uses a gun.

I just had a look at Colossus's fight again and while Cage's weaknesses have been mentioned here there are a few other factors to consider as well, I think, when judging this fight:

A punch from a professional boxer moves at about 30mph. A shotgun blast moves at about 800mph. The impact of the shotgun blast is also concentrated over a much smaller area than that of a fist. Not a physics major, but I think that means in order for Colossus to do the same damage to Luke he would have to hit nearly 30 times faster and make sure that he strikes only with one or two knuckles. Colossus clearly demonstrates that he is not a trained martial artist and since he doesn't possess superspeed I think he will find that quite difficult.

In the fight against Angel Dust Colossus is stunned by her first punch and takes a few seconds to recover and pick himself up, cries out in pain when she twists his arm and finally seems completely helpless while being choked out by her from behind until Negasonic saves him.

I think it's a pretty good match-up but my money is still going to be on Cage winning by a small margin, based on the fact that he actually has some fighting skills and seems to be just as tough and just as strong as Colossus, or at least so close that the difference will not matter.

Force = mass x acceleration. the mass of Colossus' fist >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shotgun pellets. therefore it doesn't have to be moving at anywhere near the same speed in order to hit with the same or far greater levels of force.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Force = mass x acceleration. the mass of Colossus' fist >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shotgun pellets. therefore it doesn't have to be moving at anywhere near the same speed in order to hit with the same or far greater levels of force.

That makes sense - like I said, physics isn't my thing. But wouldn't a big, slow-moving fist also spread out the impact a lot more than the point-blank blast from the barrel of a shotgun, thereby transforming the energy into momentum? When Colossus takes a punch to the face from Angel Dust, for instance, we see him flying through the air quite a distance, which means a lot of the force of the blow has been changed into energy used for momentum.

It's not just the level of force (they're both strong and invulnerable to a degree) but also how the force is applied.

Are you trying to say that Colossus withstood less force when he was sent flying than Luke Cage did being hit with a shotgun blast?

No. I am not saying that the force was less, but that the one type of impact hurt less and did less damage than the other.

We know that both Cage and Colossus can take a lot of force and absorb a lot of damage. The force has to be channelled and directed correctly to target one of their weak spots for it to do damage. Angel Dust slammed Colossus to the ground with a lot of force yet he was able to roll out of the way of her next attack, but when she targeted his elbow and his shoulder by wrenching his arm she made him cry out in pain. She didn't use more force, she just applied it differently.

Similarly, Cage took the impact of an SUV hitting him with enough force to fold double around him without doing much more than brace himself to make sure it didn't hit the people he was protecting. He didn't even move and showed no sign of injury, yet that was a lot of mass moving at a decent speed, which means a lot of force.

If Colossus had shown any kind of martial arts training he could really hurt Cage by applying carefully aimed strikes using his strength and size. But since they are both big, strong and tough guys my money is on the one with the most evidence of training and fighting skill, namely Cage.

That only works if they are comparable in strength and durability, I mean the Hulk is also big, tough and strong. would you give Luke the edge in a hth fight?

Are you saying Colossus and Cage are not comparable in strength and durability? I haven't really seen evidence that they are far apart, myself. Anything specific that makes you think Cage might not be a match for Colossus, or vice versa?

Mainly his fight with AD, at least as far as durability goes.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Mainly his fight with AD, at least as far as durability goes.

I thought his durability showed quite a few weak spots, myself. For instance, Colossus is stunned by her first punch and takes a few seconds to recover and pick himself up, cries out in pain when she twists his arm and finally seems completely helpless while being choked out from behind, until Negasonic saves him. That seems to indicate that they are not that far apart. Very tough, yes, both of them, but not completely invulnerable.

You're assuming AD and Luke have comparable strength.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You're assuming AD and Luke have comparable strength.

Yes, based on their various feats I haven't really seen that big a difference between the two.

So what has Luke done that is comparable to sending Colossus flying as far as she did?

Oh wow, I'll have to scan through the series to look up specific feats, but from what I can remember he punched through solid walls when breaking out of prison and out of the cellar in the club without much effort, made it look easy when he was slinging pieces of concrete around after the building collapsed, casually crushed a revolver into a ball with his left hand while sitting in church and sent both the cop and Diamondback flying through the air when they attacked him, not to mention the reinforced steel gates he ripped out of the wall and the lock of the vault he popped open when he went after Cottonmouth's money.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Oh wow, I'll have to scan through the series to look up specific feats, but from what I can remember he punched through solid walls when breaking out of prison and out of the cellar in the club without much effort, made it look easy when he was slinging pieces of concrete around after the building collapsed, casually crushed a revolver into a ball with his left hand while sitting in church and sent both the cop and Diamondback flying through the air when they attacked him, not to mention the reinforced steel gates he ripped out of the wall and the lock of the vault he popped open when he went after Cottonmouth's money.

He actually punched straight through concrete and steel at one point, which even caused Claire to remark on it. And he pretty much Hancock'd that SUV. He also tossed that big couch like a softball in the one episode, and twisted up gun barrels on multiple occasions. Plus, he also knocked over that tall gallery support pillar during his one encounter with Diamondback. He has more feats that I can't recall 100% accurately right now.

The SUV feat was his best. Other than that, I didn't think anything else was all that impressive. He moved some concrete, threw a couch, and ripped a stove, freezer or two out of the wall. If he was chucking cars or something then I would be impressed.

I wonder how much that tire would have weighed that Colossus tossed one handed.

The chunk of concrete he lifted(again with one arm) had to have some descent weight behind it.

200-400pounds I would guess.

I didn't realize that tires weighed so much but after doing some research some big tires can weigh upwards of 1400lbs.

Me too 500kilos 1102lbs in my research of the tire

Originally posted by tkitna
The SUV feat was his best. Other than that, I didn't think anything else was all that impressive. He moved some concrete, threw a couch, and ripped a stove, freezer or two out of the wall. If he was chucking cars or something then I would be impressed.

He did a bit more than that, as seen in both the posts above yours. And Colossus threw a tire, shifted some concrete, slapped around someone far weaker than him (Wade), and was nearly choked out by Angel Dust, so how is he much more impressive? The fact that Luke did the SUV feat shows that he can operate on that level when necessary. He just restrains himself 99% of the time.

Do you think Colossus was restraining himself vs Angel Dust?

Could Luke withstand the choke hold Angel put on Colossus with the wire? Would DP have broken his bones on Luke Cage like he did on Colossus?

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Do you think Colossus was restraining himself vs Angel Dust?

He might have been. It seemed like it, but we can't know 100% for sure. However, we know for a fact that Luke was restraining himself throughout the series.

Look, I myself have said that I feel like Colossus should be stronger (and I have also stated that I think he wins). But his feats are severely limited compared to Luke, and it's not like he himself was tossing cars, and he most definitely is not comparable to someone like the Hulk at this point. Fact is that if we objectively compare their current best strength feats, there is not that much in it.

Originally posted by golem370
Could Luke withstand the choke hold Angel put on Colossus with the wire? Would DP have broken his bones on Luke Cage like he did on Colossus?

Probably not, in terms of the choke, but it's not like Colossus was handling it either. He was screwed if it wasn't for Negasonic. And there is a chance Wade would have broken his hand against Luke. One of Cottonmouth's goons, who is supposedly known for hitting exceptionally hard, shattered his entire forearm punching Cage in the jaw. Now he isn't Wade, but if he pretty much destroyed his hand, wrist and forearm, Wade would most likely at least of damaged his hand.

I don't know if it was going to hurt or kill Colossus she just had him blocked from retaliation.

Originally posted by golem370
Would DP have broken his bones on Luke Cage like he did on Colossus?

This guy seriously fractured his hand and wrist in this scene.

http://cdn-static.sidereel.com/cms/posts/399688/large/marvels-luke-cage-sneak-peek.png

Originally posted by golem370
I don't know if it was going to hurt or kill Colossus she just had him blocked from retaliation.

So you think movie Colossus can survive indefinitely without oxygen? Even though he appeared to be visibly choking? She had him in a position where she was choking him out and he couldn't counter, and he visibly appeared to be in pain and struggling. So I don't see how that is just "blocking" him from "retaliation". She had him dead to rights.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
This guy seriously fractured his hand and wrist in this scene.

http://cdn-static.sidereel.com/cms/posts/399688/large/marvels-luke-cage-sneak-peek.png

Not just his wrist. The bone of his forearm popped out of the skin, like a split second after that screenshot. You can even see it there pressing against the skin already.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Not just his wrist. The bone of his forearm popped out of the skin, like a split second after that screenshot. You can even see it there pressing against the skin already.

Hmmm, I remember that but was too lazy to go on Netflix to get a screenshot and wasn't sure I remembered correctly so I tried to play it safe

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
He just restrains himself 99% of the time.

Great, so now Cage is going to be measured with the old Superman fallacy,,,,always holding back.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Do you think Colossus was restraining himself vs Angel Dust?

Yes

Originally posted by golem370
Would DP have broken his bones on Luke Cage like he did on Colossus?

Better question, do you think Cage would have taken getting his head bashed into a steel beam twice by Angel Dust and be able to continue to fight on like nothing happened? :40 second mark.

FYDwEHd4muY

Originally posted by tkitna
Great, so now Cage is going to be measured with the old Superman fallacy,,,,always holding back.

No fallacy. He explicitly stated that he holds back because he doesn't want to kill anyone. It's at the end of the first episode, when he takes out the goons for that old Asian couple. And we visibly see that when push comes to shove, he can do things like stop a speeding SUV dead in its tracks by shoulderchecking it. And I find it funny that you accuse me of a fallacy when I directly use onscreen evidence, and in your next post state that Colossus was holding back, when there is nothing genuinely concrete to support that assertion.

I'm not actually accusing you directly. I realize it was said on screen and you aren't the only person to bring it up. Its just Cage didn't go up against the hardest of competition. I want to see him tangle with some real super powered characters so we can get a better grasp.

As for Colossus holding back, Angel Dust is a girl. He had her on the ropes and completely stopped to warn her that her *** was hanging out. I don't think he was going 100% in that fight. To each their own though.

Originally posted by tkitna
I'm not actually accusing you directly. I realize it was said on screen and you aren't the only person to bring it up. Its just Cage didn't go up against the hardest of competition. I want to see him tangle with some real super powered characters so we can get a better grasp.

As for Colossus holding back, Angel Dust is a girl. He had her on the ropes and completely stopped to warn her that her *** was hanging out. I don't think he was going 100% in that fight. To each their own though.

Well, he did pretty much end Diamondback with one proper hit, once he stopped dicking around in their fight. Admittedly, Diamondback is not the greatest opponent, but he was definitely well above regular human. But that match was kinda dumb in anyways. Luke should just have been able to pull off his helm (it didn't appear attached to the rest of the suit), or the enormous, flashing power pack on his back. But they needed to contrive some way to have a climactic battle.

And the thing is, like I said, I feel Colossus should really be stronger. Because traditionally, in the comics, he outclasses Luke by some margin. He should be tossing buses etc. IMO, never mind cars. Especially in the Foxverse, where they are not exactly shy with power levels. But, at the end of the day, he has probably between 5-10 minutes of total screen time where he is actually in action, so his feats are extremely limited.

To what degree are we cross sharing feats? I mean are feats Colossus have from X-men 2 and 3 allowed? What about the tv shows Colossus appears in, like X-men Evolution?

Pretty sure cartoon Colossus doesn't count here. Its just the movies.

Originally posted by tkitna
Pretty sure cartoon Colossus doesn't count here. Its just the movies.

Cool, with all these tv shows, characters appearing in various media formats be it guest appearance or w/e. I feel navigating what is allowed in each match becomes increasingly blurry.

Colossus wins

Originally posted by tkitna
Yes I agree. It was obvious Colossus was going easy on her.

Just watched episode 4, Cage didn't really impress me by being ko'd from that bazooka. He also seemed to be struggling with the small chunks of rubble that were small compared to the one Colossus moved with one arm.

He moves much bigger pieces in the beginning of the next episode. Remember, he said that they had to be careful when moving things, or they might cause a larger cave in. In the beginning of episode 5, he picks up a piece that is probably almost 5-6 times bigger than any piece he moved in episode 4, and tosses it aside. And flips over an even larger piece.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I feel like the shotgun is kind of PIS at this point. Even if the force of the blast was aimed pretty much directly at his brain stem (the tip of the barrel was pressed just behind the chin bone, so just skin, and a little bit of muscle and soft tissue between that and his brain), it shouldn't have caused the level of damage it did. As we see when Claire tries to cut inside him, and then even Luke himself tries, his internal organs are nearly as tough as the rest of him. For the shotgun to do what it did, things like the rocket launcher, followed by the building collapsing on him, should have done at least some degree of longer term internal damage, which it didn't.

Edit: Still, I would say Negasonic's explosion, which then sent him flying into metal scaffolding, IIRC, is comparable to the rocket launcher thing. And Colossus wasn't KO'd, whereas Luke was.

I dunno, when I called BS on the shotgun feat due to surviving the exploding bar..people gave me this spiel about how since the shotgun was super close to his head or something the shockwave gave him a concussion.

Originally posted by Surtur
I dunno, when I called BS on the shotgun feat due to surviving the exploding bar..people gave me this spiel about how since the shotgun was super close to his head or something the shockwave gave him a concussion.

How do those people know though? We find out in his own series that his insides are nearly as tough as the rest of him. And it's not like his head was out of range of the bar explosion, which sent Jessica flying across the street despite the fact that she was standing outside, on the sidewalk.

5 episodes in and I'm not all that impressed with Cage power level but the show is great.

Does Colossus have any good feats in the X-Men movies? I remember him throwing a dude threw a wall.

Deadpool is about the only time Colossus himself has looked particularly impressive. Honestly, his best feat from the older films is probably tossing a willing Logan at pretend Sentinel. He really did not do much in those movies. Throwing someone through a wall is not particularly impressive. Even Nuke could manage that, on Jessica Jones.

Actually he threw two people through a wall. Not sure if that's better or not.

Not much. Nuke is below JJ in strength (who is below Luke in strength), and he tossed her through a wall pretty easily. Even Cap has tossed a few guys through a wall at the end of TFA, IIRC.

Cage has been hurt too often. The only time I remember seeing Colossus damaged was when a future sentinel ripped him apart, but that was after replicating his own indestructibility and strength.

Colossus stomps tbh.