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Force, sabers, all out

Who wins?

Ahsoka > Cade (although Cade could win a few thanks to DT)

Ahsoka and Ben gang Nihl

Not sure, good fight.
Team two has both the MVP and the weakest.

Nihl's the weakest in sabers. Doubt Cade's above Ahsoka.

Team 2 takes Force, though, unquestionably.

Not sure about all-out.

Lmao @ Ahsoka > Cade. Cade's better in everything.

Is Cade really better in sabers?

He fought Reborn Krayt longer than Ahsoka fought Vader.

How many pages was it?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
He fought Reborn Krayt longer than Ahsoka fought Vader. She was hindered, and Vader was amped.

Malachor is a DS Nexus.

...But again, thats only in Legends, so whether its a DS Nexus or not is up for debate in canon.

3 off-panel pages where just reading out the lines with a realistic break between dialogues is roughly 1:30.

http://i.imgur.com/dLWCQNE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BROtJLE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/L9gsbtt.jpg

Originally posted by Jmanghan
She was hindered, and Vader was amped.

Malachor is a DS Nexus.

...But again, thats only in Legends, so whether its a DS Nexus or not is up for debate.

Same could be said about the Sith Temple filled with artifacts and holocrons.

Doesn't it cut from Krayt hurling Force powers at Cade to Cade dueling him? Or do we see Krayt actually dueling before the cut?

It cuts from Cade jumping at Krayt to them actually dueling.

It hardly matters tho. If you want to lower the length of their lightsaber duel, then that makes their force duel even longer, which puts Cade all the further away from Ahsoka's paygrade.

I'd hesitate to call that a duel myself. It was more of Cade surviving Krayt's powers, rather than genuinely responding in kind.

But actually, the fact that the duel was longer kind of lowers Krayt as well, as opposed to just raising Cade, since I believe that for most people, the basis for Krayt being so high in sabers is because he defeated Cade so quickly. So if the fight was drawn-out, Krayt may no longer be as high-up as he once was.

Lmao, then Vader is lowered as well because he can't beat Ahsoka quickly. What kind of argument is that?

Huh? Vader was controlling the fight. That's what people based their ranking of Vader on, not how quickly he defeated Ahsoka.

I'm saying that many people's perceptions of where Krayt lies as a duelist comes from what is perceived as his best feat - defeating Cade Skywalker near-instantly, within a page. Now that it's 4 pages (ergo, such a feat of defeating Cade quickly doesn't exist), Krayt is inevitably going to be lowered by those people.

I don't remember people first going for the Cade fight when talking about Krayt's skill.

There's the Kenobi scaling, The IK blitzing, fighting equally with Muur, beating Wyyrlok handily.

I recall people thinking the Cade fight was his best feat. Almost nobody cites him fighting evenly with Muur, either - that's more of a feat for Muur.

Either way, Cade looks to be better than most people have him, then.

Nihl's still the weakest, though. It's plausible that Ben could hold Cade off whilst Ahsoka takes down Nihl, then the two gang up on Cade.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Huh? Vader was controlling the fight. That's what people based their ranking of Vader on, not how quickly he defeated Ahsoka.Arguably Ahsoka was controlling the fight at the beginning. Well then people are retarded, Krayt using haxx to beat Cade is not a display of lightsaber skill in anyway.

I'm not convinced of this off-panel argument though, seems to me that those events are concurrent with the second half of Cade vs Krayt considering this panel seems to follow on from this panel in terms of dialogue.

On topic Cade is combatively more powerful than Ahsoka, but little evidence suggests he is as skilled. She can hold him off while Ben kills Nihl imo, or (preferably) vice versa.

Yes, the natural counterargument would be that off-panels reflect events happening in simultaneity as the panels beforehand, not continuing onwards (by much, at least).

Krayt had to touch Cade to enact Dark Transfer. That counts as a breach of Cade's defenses.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Nihl's still the weakest, though. It's plausible that Ben could hold Cade off whilst Ahsoka takes down Nihl, then the two gang up on Cade.

Nihl's underrated too, but that could be a possible scenario in sabers only. Not in All-out tho, I imagine.

PS: Threads with teams would be much more interesting if people would actually treat it like a team fight, not just a series of 1on1 fight where the team with first blood wins. It's not directed at you Nova, just a general comment.

The mere fact that Ashoka can't immediately beat Darth Maul puts her below Cade as a duelist.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Nihl's underrated too, but that could be a possible scenario in sabers only. Not in All-out tho, I imagine.

PS: Threads with teams would be much more interesting if people would actually treat it like a team fight, not just a series of 1on1 fight where the team with first blood wins. It's not directed at you Nova, just a general comment.

The problem being that in the mythos, most team fights split off into separate duels.

Well yeah, but realistically nothing stops them to help out their teammates if the team work is good enough and/or one of the combatants is more fomidable than his opponent enough to spare a few moments to help.

Like here: https://youtu.be/mm4JEZudf0c?t=3m

They can help block a couple of strikes at most. Which could be a game changer, but still.

Depending on the terrain, the fight could also split up with too much distance in between for much help between the two fights.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Krayt had to touch Cade to enact Dark Transfer. That counts as a breach of Cade's defenses. Which is a display of Force speed at best, doesn't really look as if he battered through his lightsaber defenses first.

That's be like saying blitzing is just Force speed, not skill.

Penetration of defenses is skill as well as speed, lol.

It is, well done.

But sure, I guess Krayt gets points for finding an opening in which he wouldn't get his hand cut off. But physical strikes in combat are hardly uncommon.

So if featless X blitzed Y, X is still featless in terms of skill, just fast?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm not convinced of this off-panel argument though, seems to me that those events are concurrent with the second half of Cade vs Krayt considering this panel seems to follow on from this panel in terms of dialogue.

By that logic every off-panel/screen is a paralel event

Originally posted by Beniboybling
But sure, I guess Krayt gets points for finding an opening in which he wouldn't get his hand cut off. But physical strikes in combat are hardly uncommon.

Yeah, Hett tagged Kenobi as well, the absolute master of Soresu. So one could say Hett > Kenobi, but we know that's not true.

Originally posted by SunRazer
So if featless X blitzed Y, X is still featless in terms of skill, just fast? Yes. What skill really is necessary when your opponent simply cannot keep up? The ability to strike a killing blow, nothing more.

If you're dodging their every strike, it'd also include at least equal skill

Cade and Nihl.

Nihl dies first in every scenario, then Cade gets DP'd. Team 1 wins.

And when Vader leaves the Malachor Temple, he's beat to shit and badly wounded.