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*Darth Talon as of Legacy: War
*Kenth Hamner as of FotJ
*Fight takes place near a crashed Star Destroyer
*In Character, but serious
*Starting Distance: 7,5m

Round one: Sabers only
Round two: Force only
Round three: All-Out


Personally, I would say that Kenth wins Force and probably All-Out, tbh

Up

Kenth wins 10/10 in the Force, no doubt.

Not sure about sabers and all out. I don't view guys like Havok, Talon or Nihl highly just because they are named Sith and people have named Sith above every Jedi possible except the total top tiers lel.

Where do you rank Saba again?
While Saba was holding back, he still nearly killed her in a duel. One time only her tail saved her.

Are people actually base the Kenth Force wank on something other than ragdolling Kyp?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Are people actually base the Kenth Force wank on something other than ragdolling Kyp?
Yes. He destroyed a large staircase mid-fight with Saba, while being clearly on the losing end.
Edit: As Kyle spoke, Hamner's hand came up, and Saba felt the Force flowing to him in a rush. Thinking he had finally gathered the courage to challenge her, she raised her own hand to counterattack - and was astonished to hear not the echoing boom of a Force blast, but the spine-chilling screech of twisting metal. Saba checked her own attack, then glanced back toward the stairs and found a pair of twisted safety rails ending over empty air.

The staircase hit the hangar deck with a deafening clang that drew all eyes toward the Masters, and Saba realized with a heavy heart that Hamner was not going to make this easy on himself.
-FotJ Vortex, Credit to Nova

He also dominated Saba, who melted Durasteel on a DS Nexus iirc.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Yes. He destroyed a large quote mid-fight with Saba, while being clearly on the losing end.

A large what?

a large quote

do u even read

LMAO
I edited the post.

Originally posted by JKBart
a large quote

do u even read

why did u edit
whats wrong with destroying a large quote

Originally posted by JKBart
why did u edit
whats wrong with destroying a large quote
I don't found the quote of him destroying a large quote.
So I edited his second most impressive feat in.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Yes. He destroyed a large staircase mid-fight with Saba, while being clearly on the losing end.
Edit: As Kyle spoke, Hamner's hand came up, and Saba felt the Force flowing to him in a rush. Thinking he had finally gathered the courage to challenge her, she raised her own hand to counterattack - and was astonished to hear not the echoing boom of a Force blast, but the spine-chilling screech of twisting metal. Saba checked her own attack, then glanced back toward the stairs and found a pair of twisted safety rails ending over empty air.

The staircase hit the hangar deck with a deafening clang that drew all eyes toward the Masters, and Saba realized with a heavy heart that Hamner was not going to make this easy on himself.
-FotJ Vortex, Credit to Nova

Would be nice to have some idea how big that staircase is.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
He also dominated Saba, who melted Durasteel on a DS Nexus iirc.

In your above quote you said he was losing to Saba decisively, so which one is it now?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Would be nice to have some idea how big that staircase is.



In your above quote you said he was losing to Saba decisively, so which one is it now?
I don't know.

He dominated her with the force, but Saba won through her dueling(and imo also strenght, endurance and durability) advantage.

Well gief quote for the latter.

It's amazing how shit some NJO duelists are if they are so inept at capitalizing on their force edge.

LMAO

Pinning an distracted Kyp against a ship is still above Talon, solidly.

Hamner isn't a sh!t duelist... Saba's just better. He also didn't dominate her, he more-or-less shared parity with her... but she collapsed a massive ass tunnel on a DS nexus and pulled a Vader by melting durasteel. She's certainly powerful.

Originally posted by MythLord
Hamner isn't a sh!t duelist... Saba's just better. He also didn't dominate her, he more-or-less shared parity with her... but she collapsed a massive ass tunnel on a DS nexus and pulled a Vader by melting durasteel. She's certainly powerful.
Nah, Hamner imo dominated her with the force-or was at least her superior.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Pinning an distracted Kyp against a ship is still above Talon, solidly.

Talon KO'd a distracted Cade with a single push. She could do the same in Kenth's place.

Also I checked the staircase feat. They were standing on a metal catwalk in a hangar and all Kenth did was tearing the stair apart from it. Talon can do that too.

Still waiting for the Saba quote.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Talon KO'd a distracted Cade with a single push. She could do the same in Kenth's place.

Also I checked the staircase feat. They were standing on a metal catwalk in a hangar and all Kenth did was tearing the stair apart from it. Talon can do that too.

Still waiting for the Saba quote.
Kyp>>>Cade.

K'

Which quote, exactly?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Kyp>>>Cade.

Nah. Besides straight up KOing someone > holding somone in place for a few seconds.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Which quote, exactly?

The one you brought up phag.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Nah. Besides straight up KOing someone > holding somone in place for a few seconds.



The one you brought up phag.
1. Hamner didn't want too. And yes, Kyp>>>Cade.

2. Which one? The durasteel melting?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
1. Hamner didn't want too. And yes, Kyp>>>Cade.

2. Which one? The durasteel melting?

1. One TK feat ain't gona make Kyp better when every other feat he has is worse than Cade's. And it sure as hell ain't gona make him significantly better.

2. Well that too, but I asked for Kenth dominating Saba.

1. If you do this with greater easen then Luke, then yes, it does. In general Kyp's feat are more impressive, imo. If you want to discuss this further, lets make a Cade vs Kyp(Force only) therad.

2. It's more that he landed more force attacks, with greater effect on her. I'll search for quotes(and the Durasteel one) after dinner.

People should stop overblowing the Length Hammer TK feat, lmao. Kyp wasn't in a combat ready stance, so common sense dictates his shields didn't have anywhere near the power it would sport when he's ready for such a thing.

Talon wins, btw.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
People should stop overblowing the Length Hammer TK feat, lmao. Kyp wasn't in a combat ready stance, so common sense dictates his shields didn't have anywhere near the power it would sport when he's ready for such a thing.

Talon wins, btw.
Naturally he was distracted, but I don't see, let's say, Talon pushing an distracted Krayt.

Don't see why she can't. TCW Ashoka was shoving a distracted Ventress back meters, and I would say the disparity between those two are pretty gigantic.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Don't see why she can't. TCW Ashoka was shoving a distracted Ventress back meters, and I would say the disparity between those two are pretty gigantic.
Not bigger than between Talon and Kyp imo.
Kyp can ragdoll dudes, who can ragdoll dudes.
Also TCW is...a bit inconcistent.

If you don't have force shields up, TK's gonna work on... just about anyone, passive force defense is fairly minimal, just toughness really.

I've seen people no-sell a force offense they're defending against, but I've never seen someone ignore a force push without paying attention.

Originally posted by JKBart
Kenth wins 10/10 in the Force, no doubt.

Not sure about sabers and all out. I don't view guys like Havok, Talon or Nihl highly just because they are named Sith and people have named Sith above every Jedi possible except the total top tiers lel.

What makes you give Hamner the force? Talon was able to rip up chucks of stone out of the floor- that is to say, breaking it free from even larger pieces of stone, not just lifting existing rock- that was both taller than a person and also quite wide, hundreds of tons of stone.

Her use of lightning in combat is pretty solid too. Also she ripped the memories out of a forceuser's mind, and was very skilled at hiding her presence in the force.

Nihl and Talon are in Krayt's inner circle, his council, specifically there for combat skills, and fight Jedi that have significant feats, and fight them enough for us to have a good idea how strong they are. Also, when against no-names, they scythed through 'em like nothing.

Here's Talon using the force to disable two Jedi Masters.

Talon vs Floor- which used to be a single piece and she ripped it up just to gain the high ground.




A metal staircase? Yea, that's less than Talon. Like, not even a little less, a lot less.

1. Council? Neat. Hamner was Grandmaster. You can't argue this way, lol.
2. Do the masters have any feats? Hamner also stomped two masters, iirc.
3. That...isn't more impressive than the staircase showing, imo.
4. I've yet wait to see a force feat of Talon, that surpasses Hamner's

The gap between Ventress and Ahsoka in TCW isn't as big as the gap between Krayt and Talon in Legacy. Made moreso by the fact that it's TCW, where anybody can TK anybody, lol.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
1. Council? Neat. Hamner was Grandmaster. You can't argue this way, lol.

There is a common tier among combat-oriented council members that shows up a lot. Someone can be in a council and more or less than that, but if someone is part of a group's council and it's for their combat capacity? They're normally at least in that level.

Kenth Hamner was a council member himself originally, only Grandmaster for political reasons, and everyone was of the opinion that Corran or Saba would solidly beat him in a duel (and since we know a couple other stronger than Corran, well, says a lot).

To put it in Clone Wars terms, he's not the Fisto or Plo Koon (which the main Hands effectively are), he's maybe the Adi Galli. A solid fighter but not their top and arguably not their middle.




Earlier that issue, they were part of a group of four Jedi, another Knight and Master. Five Sith attacked, the other two Jedi died fast.

These two killed 'em all in a few beats in an utterly casual fashion. Just, one page of slicing and they were, "Shall we go find Cade?" "Sure," totally relaxed. Killed a master/apprentice duo, but just casual, don't even have to try very hard fodder. That's just earlier that day.

Later on Wolf Sazen kills Darth Azard, one of Krayt's higher ranking Sith (not Inner Circle, but in charge of one of his big fleets, and has significant combat feats dueling with an Imperial Knight and force-shielding against big explosions), and mutual killed with Darth Stryfe (Inner Circle, Sith Fist/military leader, has good enough TK to grab and crush someone's heart, noted for immense physical strength). He also beat up Cade with one hand, when Cade was still rusty with his Jedi training... then he was the one who brought Cade back in Jedi shape.

And it's implied Shado Vao is stronger than him (the leader of the Imperial Knights got into a conversation about whether Shado was as strong as him), and a member of the anti-Krayt assassination team (where he stalemated Darth Maladi, another inner circle member, sith sorceress strong enough to do Memory Walk). Which shouldn't be surprising, as Vao is Grandmaster Kol Skywalker's last student.


Pretty much any of the 'shows up often' force users in Legacy has a long list of no-name kills. The series revolves around the top people who their respective orders send on important missions mostly. The leader of the Imperial Knights and his partner. The Sith Hands. Cade Skywalker's teacher and Kol Skywalker's student. Cade himself.



Multiple hundreds of tons isn't more impressive than maybe a ton?



Well, the one I described to you and now shown you literally requires hundreds of times more kinetic energy.

Just adressing the first point, as I am on the mobile phone atm.
1. Why do you ghink that he is only Gallia Level, and below Fisto and Koon? He would easily beat Adi and also beat Plo.
2. Quote for Corran>Kenth? As duelist, sure, but we talk about the force.

Kyp is not >>> Cade lol.

Originally posted by Trocity
Kyp is not >>> Cade lol.
Depends on how big you see >>>.
Kyp should be able to ragdoll, imo.

We've been over that.

>Kyp never ragdolled anyone
>Krayt couldn't ragdoll Cade
>Kyp ragdolls Cade

Kek. Just take your L Urs and move on.

I am not saying that Kyp would ragdoll, but that he should be able to. He is one or two tiers above Cade in raw power, the only problem is that he hasn't any combative showings, which would prove that.

Doesn't matter how you say it, it's not happening.

Sabers: Talon 6/10
Force: Kenth 10/10
All out: Kenth 7/10-8/10

Why is anyone giving Kenth force? Talon's got way more force feats.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Just adressing the first point, as I am on the mobile phone atm.
1. Why do you ghink that he is only Gallia Level, and below Fisto and Koon? He would easily beat Adi and also beat Plo.
2. Quote for Corran>Kenth? As duelist, sure, but we talk about the force.

Adi's pretty good (she was doing just fine vs Savage til his toughness threw her off), and Koon held off Asajj while he had a broken arm, which is rather impressive. He also has force powers like Electric Judgement.

Kenth hasn't done anything equal to, say, Fisto's Grievous fight (and even in his death, Fisto was the only one fast enough to exchange blocks with Sidious before dropping).

I mean, Kenth's combat feat is basically dispatching two knights (ok, that's good, he's not a slouch), force pushing a not-paying-attention Kyp (not too hard, Kyp was blindsided!), and then inflicting some damage on but being *clearly* outmatched by Saba Sebatyne.

Do you think Saba would be that much better than some of the CW council's better fighters like Fisto?


And... the Jedi Council had Corran as their first pick to challenge Kenth in a duel and take the grandmastership, and only when he declined did Saba step up. Also in the big multi-way master sparring match, Corran and Saba chose to take each other on and again, solid results. It read to me like the Council was very confident in Horn's ability to beat Hamner.


Stock in Hamner seems to have risen a lot recently, which kinda surprise me, since it implicitly raises the stock of Saba and most of the upper half of the NJO council. Kyp, Katarn, Mara, Corran, Saba, all seem to be on a higher level, so if *he's* that badass, *they* are all even the more-so.

As a swordsman? Sure, Fisto is clearly superior to Hamner. And yes, Ihave Saba~Fisto, in Sabers. Hamner hold his own better against Saba(who is imo >Savage), then Adi against Opress.
He is above the likes of Plo Koon imo, but below Kolar, Fisto, maybe Mundi and the big 4 as duelist, but above all of the RotS council, bar the big 4.
Corran > Kenth as duelist -but not by so much-, but he has massive problems with TK, which Hamner often uses in battles.
Nah, it moves only Saba higher. Corran was implied to be an better duelist rhan Kenth, but nothing more.
The rest are clearly superior to Hamner, him moving higher in the eyes of some(well, actually only Myth, Bart, maybe Nova and myself), doesn't make the rest higher.

Oh, you put Koon below Kolar/Mundi... we rate those different.