Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

1. Sabers
2. All-out

Plagueis tanks and spanks.

Plagueis stomps both rounds.

Plagueis stomping sabers? Based on what?

1. Plagueis wins
2. Plagueis wins easily

1. Anakin.
2. Plagueis.

Plagueis

Plagueis wins All-Out, and probably Sabers as well.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Plagueis stomping sabers? Based on what?

The author stating he would have likely defeated TPM Sidious in a duel.

I thought you didn't take claims like that unless it was supported by feats?

1. Anakin
2. Plagueis

IMHO:

1. Anakin
2. Honestly not sure. It probably depends on starting distance.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I thought you didn't take claims like that unless it was supported by feats?

It's not contradicted by feats and is left ambiguous. In those cases I do.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
It's not contradicted by feats and is left ambiguous. In those cases I do.

TPM Sidious doesn't draw his lightsaber again for more than a decade, so it's safe to say that he really didn't improve. In which case, using his RotS feats is still understandable. Does that not contradict the idea of Plagueis being a better duelist to you?

I'm not seeing how Meetra quote is contradicted by Satele, then.

Syndicate's also assuming that RotS Sidious (or rather TPM Sidious) > Knightfall Vader as a duelist, and I'm not sure if that assumption is fair to make. They're comparable in augmentation (Sidious already acknowledges that Anakin is potentially more powerful than him, and Vader at this stage is even stronger), and while Sidious may or may not have an edge in skill, Anakin is younger.

Originally posted by SunRazer

I'm not seeing how Meetra quote is contradicted by Satele, then.
Which quote? And how Satele contradicts it?

Scourge's claim that Revan and Meetra were the greatest Jedi in terms of strength up until he met HoT. And he's met Satele.

Syndicate doesn't believe in the quote and thinks that Satele's feats contradict it or something. I'm asking him to elaborate.

That's made even more interesting by the fact that Meetra was being hindered on a dark side nexus.

Yes, it is.

So Exile>Meetra on a DS Nexus>Satele. Cool, lol.

It's not enough to just meet someone to know how powerful they are though. Jaina had been fighting with Luke her entire life and shared a close Force connection, and she admitted in LotF that she had no idea how powerful he really was.

It's TOR. Scourge got HoT being the strongest Jedi by just meeting him as well, IIRC.

I mean, Tol Braga also thought that he could defeat Vitiate. I don't see why we have to take people's word seriously on those matters.

Well, Scourge has learned from people thinking that they could defeat Vitiate

True. In any event, the quote still applies to the hundred plus Jedi that Scourge killed because the Emperor deemed them too powerful.

Plagueis wins in a great fight.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, Scourge has learned from people thinking that they could defeat Vitiate

True. In any event, the quote still applies to the hundred plus Jedi that Scourge killed because the Emperor deemed them too powerful.

That's fair. I guess it's a good case for Meetra being a legitimately powerful Jedi by the Revan novel, although I don't think it conclusively puts her above Satele for the reasons aforementioned.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
That's fair. I guess it's a good case for Meetra being a legitimately powerful Jedi by the Revan novel, although I don't think it conclusively puts her above Satele for the reasons aforementioned.

Perhaps.

I wouldn't mind subscribing to that. It's sometimes frustrating when Satele has almost nothing on her side in TOR. Debating for her can be hard and this might've made it even worse.

I think Satele should be powerful given her non-powerscaled feats, like crushing hex droids with a gesture and stuff. Maybe TCW Obi Wan level with the Force?

TOR characters tend to be super hyped just right after they come out. People though Satele and Malgus together could challenge Vitiate, then they though Jadus was above Vader, then they thought Valkorion could defeat Luke and Palpatine together (lol), and now they've settled into their places.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I think Satele should be powerful given her non-powerscaled feats, like crushing hex droids with a gesture and stuff. Maybe TCW Obi Wan level with the Force?

TOR characters tend to be super hyped just right after they come out. People though Satele and Malgus together could challenge Vitiate, then they though Jadus was above Vader, then they thought Valkorion could defeat Luke and Palpatine together (lol), and now they've settled into their places.

Those hex droids were resisting an enraged Eldon Ax's Force Crush and a host of other things. I think they were unaffected by missiles, too. Satele Crushing them casually and freezing them in mid-air with mere looks is pretty good.

Yeah, I remember back in 2011 when Satele was considered closer to Vitiate than to Marr.

I think people find it demeaning to say that all of these uber-hyped characters are sub-Kenobi level, but I don't see why Kenobi has to be considered weak. He's obviously incredibly powerful.

True. I've been getting back on the Kenobi hype train recently.

Originally posted by SunRazer
TPM Sidious doesn't draw his lightsaber again for more than a decade, so it's safe to say that he really didn't improve. In which case, using his RotS feats is still understandable. Does that not contradict the idea of Plagueis being a better duelist to you?

I'm not seeing how Meetra quote is contradicted by Satele, then.

Sidious inferably grew in power though and thus has improved reflexes, precondition and augmentation.

The last time Scourge saw Meetra was at her death. Not during a time gap in which Meetra improved.

1. Then he also inferrably lost skill from not practicing for over a decade?

2. So what if Meetra didn't improve?

Yes. Though can you provide the quote that says he didn't practice at all?

There's no reason to infer the quotes accuracy changes unlike with Sidious.

There's no quote. There's just the fact that he was now Chancellor and didn't exactly have to leave to deal with any sort of threats like Maul.

Actually, I think there was a quote(s) that he hadn't drawn his lightsaber for a long time in RotS, but that got retconned with his TCW fight against the brothers. Though it still means that he hadn't drawn his lightsabers from the Hypori duel well before TPM to TCW.

I'm sure he had some free time.

I don't see why he would choose to practice. He would only use them if he had to defeat someone special, which isn't documented since nothing happens between TPM and AotC that would concern him.

IIRC, he didn't even carry a lightsaber anymore as of 52BBY, which was why he had to borrow Plagueis' lightsaber when decided to get revenge on Pax Teem.

And before you say it, yes, I know he had a second blade tucked up his sleeve. He probably constructed it after that incident I mentioned.

Remind me again when's 52BBY in the timeline?

Twenty years before TPM.

Was he a master of all 7 forms by that point?

That's never directly stated, but seeing as he didn't practice afterwards, I'd assume so.

But it's pretty impressive that he has such mastery given that he only wielded a lightsaber for a several years (in 54BBY, he notes that Plagueis had only allowed him to handle a lightsaber a few years prior), which is a testament to his instinctive ability.

Or it could mean he simply practiced in those off years till he mastered all 7. I could honestly see either scenario.

He isn't practicing in his off years if he didn't even carry one in 52BBY, which shows that he was already comfortable with his lightsaber mastery and didn't see the need to use one further. That, or he didn't have enough time for regular practice. Or both. Either way, there was no need for him to carry a lightsaber in 52BBY, and he only created one afterwards as a reserve. His lifestyle wouldn't have changed much and as Chancellor, he wouldn't be training much either.

You're running off baseless speculation at this point.

After the incident he might have felt it was prudent to keep his skills honed. Also just because he didn't carry a lightsaber on him doesn't mean he didn't practice.

Edit: As are you my friend. I mean, he didn't practice because he didn't carry a lightsaber on his person? At least don't apply double standards.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
After the incident he might have felt it was prudent to keep his skills honed.

That's never suggested in the novel, explicitly or implicitly. Heck, even after the incident, he still felt that lightsabers should only be used to humiliate the Jedi at their own game.



If he doesn't carry one, that means he didn't feel that there was the need to use one. So there's no sense in him practicing for something he felt he didn't need.

The incident itself occurring makes it a logical reaction.

He used a lightsaber multiple times throughout the Clone Wars. He likely didn't feel the need to carry around a potentially incriminating weapon but if he were to carry out an assassination or was going to a place where he'd need to defend himself then it makes sense that he'd bring his lightsaber and keep his skills honed.

Said logical reaction being that he equipped himself with a lightsaber. Not that he continued practicing. He absolutely butchered the Gran.

Multiple times throughout the Clone Wars? I only recall vs Maul/Savage

Sidious doesn't carry out assassinations personally anymore. That's why he had Maul (or was planning it until TPM happened), and that's why he has Dooku recruit assassins.

Why wouldn't it be logical to assume the former?

And his implied spars with Dooku and duel with Talzin.

I'm referring to the 20 years before TPM timeline where he's still carrying out missions for Plagueis.

The former being that he equipped himself with another lightsaber? That's what I said. That doesn't mean he practiced in any decent quantity, though.

Ah, Talzin. He barely even used it then anyway.

Which implied spars with Dooku?

He didn't carry out personal errands anymore. He focused on his political career and Chancellery ambitions after that. That was the point of training Maul, as well.

No, I mean that he didn't keep his skills honed.

"You have none of the Count's skill."

I don't think Maul was ready to carry out missions 20 years before TPM.

The fact that he knows how skilled Dooku is doesn't mean they sparred. He knew of Dooku's skill even before Dooku joined the Sith, but that hardly means they sparred.

Maul was carrying out missions at a pretty early age.

And Sidious wasn't doing personal errands by 52BBY, either. That was one exception that he took upon himself, more than anything else.

Sidious kept his lightsaber(s) stored in a statue at the start of his political career, including during his Chancellorship, which kept him rather busy, it should be rather obvious that he wasn't practicing regularly, if at all, during that period.

EDIT: And prior to retcons by TCW, its stated he never touched his lightsaber until RotS.

He had one stored in his statue and one tucked up his sleeve, but presumably the one in his sleeve was constructed after the incident with Pax Teem.

But thanks for the vote of confidence.

1. Plagueis 6/10
2. Plagueis 7/10

Originally posted by SunRazer
The fact that he knows how skilled Dooku is doesn't mean they sparred. He knew of Dooku's skill even before Dooku joined the Sith, but that hardly means they sparred.

Maul was carrying out missions at a pretty early age.

And Sidious wasn't doing personal errands by 52BBY, either. That was one exception that he took upon himself, more than anything else.

He states this in the context of fighting with Talzin which implies he knows the Count's skill from firsthand experience.

20 years before TPM? Nah, I don't buy it.

Quote?

Originally posted by SunRazer
He had one stored in his statue and one tucked up his sleeve, but presumably the one in his sleeve was constructed after the incident with Pax Teem.

But thanks for the vote of confidence.

I call for a vote of no confidence in Supreme Chancellor Razer.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I think people find it demeaning to say that all of these uber-hyped characters are sub-Kenobi level, but I don't see why Kenobi has to be considered weak. He's obviously incredibly powerful.

I like how you try to sell these arbitrary cross-examination rankings as facts, lmao.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
1. Anakin.
2. Plagueis.

Bump

Vader may actually take sabers.

I disagree with "may"

wins sabers loses force idk all out; canonically should win

Anakin in both.

Yeah Anakin takes sabers with slight difficulty and all out in a good fight.

tfw you realize it's not Revan that's the protagonist of Revan. It's Scourge.

But yeah; sure. Anakin takes Sabers.