Team DC vs Team Marvel

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t0sh
Odin Force Thor
Trion Juggernaut
Thanos


Superman Prime, Guardian Amplified.
Pre-Crisis Darkseid
Wally West, Bloodlusted.

apex_pretador
Team marvel.

LordofBrooklyn
Superman Prime solos.

riv6672
^^^You would know about solo-ing....

that said, going with Team Marvel.

Zack M
Team DC. Amped prime and PC Darkseid? Too much, imo.

Cogito
DC wrecks

Sin I AM
D.C. all day

carver9
DC kills then tbh. Not a good fight at all.

apex_pretador
TBH, Trion juggernaut could solo both sides if not for Thanos's TP.

Cogito
TBH, PC Darkseid has the most powerful TP on the field, created a being more powerful than team Marvel (PC Validus), SMP has total magic immunity (source of Trion's powers), can punch through dimensions like a hot knife through butter, and has survived universal destruction. Wally can remove Jugg's helmet easily enough or speed steal/Speed Force dump.

hutchy1345
Yeah dc win
Wally is almost untouchable
Darkseid and prime are gonna be nearly impossible to put down

apex_pretador
Originally posted by Cogito
TBH, PC Darkseid has the most powerful TP on the field, created a being more powerful than team Marvel (PC Validus), SMP has total magic immunity (source of Trion's powers), can punch through dimensions like a hot knife through butter, and has survived universal destruction. Wally can remove Jugg's helmet easily enough or speed steal/Speed Force dump.

PC darkseid was amped in the instances where he showed powerful TP.

Oh, and magic immunity means what? Trion juggernaut doesn't do "magic punch", he does universe-collapsing punches, and SMP isn't immune to magic either, black adam's magic was enough to "tickle" him.

Oh, and Wally isn't speed stealing the unstoppable, speedforce dumping someone who can one-shot dimension and universal barriers like tissue paper and can't be hurt.

Not to mention that I haven't even touched THanos here. Forget about OFT.

abhilegend
Originally posted by apex_pretador
PC darkseid was amped in the instances where he showed powerful TP.


No, he wasn't.

Trion Juggernaut wasn't collapsing universes. He punched through a dimension. Normal SBP punched through Phantom Zone.

Mordru amped on entire universe's magic couldn't hurt SBP.


He did the same to SBP who did all that.
Thanos or OFT are useless here.

Darkseid will solo here. As will SMP.

Cogito
Originally posted by apex_pretador
PC darkseid was amped in the instances where he showed powerful TP.
Darkseid was (probably) amped in GDS, where he mind-controlled 3 billion Daxamites as they rampaged across the universe, that's true. That does not mean he lacks the TP to put down Juggs at base though erm

Originally posted by apex_pretador
Oh, and magic immunity means what? Trion juggernaut doesn't do "magic punch", he does universe-collapsing punches, and SMP isn't immune to magic either, black adam's magic was enough to "tickle" him. What do you think he's punching through dimensions with? He received a magical amp that brought him to that level. As Abhi said, Mordru (a Lord of Chaos, of course) further amped on the magic of an entire universe did nada to regular SBP. In the most inconsistent with continuity and within itself issue ever, SMP was immune to Mxy's magic. F***ing Mxy.

Originally posted by apex_pretador
Oh, and Wally isn't speed stealing the unstoppable, speedforce dumping someone who can one-shot dimension and universal barriers like tissue paper and can't be hurt.
Of course he is. Juggernaut doesn't have super speed, so he couldn't tag a bloodlusted Wally if his life depended on it. Also, his "unstoppable-ness" is dependent on momentum. Speed steal literally takes that away. Permanently.

Originally posted by apex_pretador
Not to mention that I haven't even touched THanos here. Forget about OFT. That's fine, because both are irrelevant.

Faceless808
^^ I love watching a master at work! thumb up thumb up

riv6672
I love a good back and forth.

Flyattractor
It appears that BFR was left on so yes, that pretty much makes any version of Juggynuts a non-issue.

Go Team DC.

t0sh
Pre-Crisis Darkseid would still have a difficult time with Thanos, whom was capable of forcing Galactus to exert some effort just to break through his force fields; that and Odin had some difficulty putting him down -mind you, he was trying to get him to surrender and he was fighting the Silver Surfer at the same time.

Superman Prime & Trion Juggernaut's feats place them into the same category, however; Trion Juggernaut cannot die. Prime can't really BFR Juggy as far as I'm aware. Jugs should deal with him after a prolonged battle.

Wally West doesn't have the punching power to put Thor down.

Team Marvel for me.

riv6672
And me.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by riv6672
^^^You would know about solo-ing....

that said, going with Team Marvel.

YOU ARE LOWLY, SCUM, UNWORTHY TO EVEN ADDRESS ME!!!

KNOW YOUR PLACE!!!!!

riv6672
above you is my place. thumb up

t0sh
Now now...

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by riv6672
above you is my place. thumb up

Explain how team Marvel wins.

1)Speed- Flash literally steals the speed from the Marvel combatants,

2)SBP- A murderous PC level Superman whom is immune to magic thus nullifying Cain's power.

3) Darkseid- This version of Darkseid dismantles Thanos and anyone else on Team Marvel with ease.

t0sh
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Explain how team Marvel wins.

1)Speed- Flash literally steals the speed from the Marvel combatants,

2)SBP- A murderous PC level Superman whom is immune to magic thus nullifying Cain's power.

3) Darkseid- This version of Darkseid dismantles Thanos and anyone else on Team Marvel with ease.
1) Flash is blood lusted. He would be seeking blood, not their speed.

b) SBP cannot put down Trion Juggernaut.

c) Doubtful. Thanos has Universal level durability. Something Darkseid has no answer against.

Zack M
Prime punches Juggernaut into oblivion.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by t0sh
1) Flash is blood lusted. He would be seeking blood, not their speed.

b) SBP cannot put down Trion Juggernaut.

c) Doubtful. Thanos has Universal level durability. Something Darkseid has no answer against.

1. Flash rendering them motionless through speed stealing would make them easier to kill. Flash isn't, The Odinson, his intellect doesn't diminish as his anger increases.

2}SBP has taken on Legions OF the Legion of Superheroes. Trion Juggernaut's power is magic based. SBP is immune to magic, Cain's power is completely nullified.

3)PC Darkseid breaks ANY unenhanced version of The Emo Eggplant. The canon says so.

t0sh
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
1. Flash rendering them motionless through speed stealing would make them easier to kill. Flash isn't, The Odinson, his intellect doesn't diminish as his anger increases.

2}SBP has taken on Legions OF the Legion of Superheroes. Trion Juggernaut's power is magic based. SBP is immune to magic, Cain's power is completely nullified.

3)PC Darkseid breaks ANY unenhanced version of The Emo Eggplant. The canon says so.
1) Flash is blood lusted. It's out of character for someone whose blood lusted to steal their speed. He's seeking blood.

If these characters weren't blood lusted, you might have a good argument, but that's not the case. Even so, it's out of character for Flash to do that right off the bat, so it's an irrelevant argument anyways.

2) Trion Juggernauts power will not effect Superman Prime directly. It will only keep him in the battle. If it isn't directly affecting Prime, his immunity to magic is also irrelevant.

3) There is little proof even in Pre Crisis to suggest Darkseid could win over Justice League, the closest fight he has had would be against Infinity Man (which he won) and against Firestorm (which didnt go so well for him).

Darkseid has never fought Superman in Pre Crisis chronology just as well, the closest is him beating Mon El, fighting Superboy and Supergirl together (where Superboy ends up getting BFRed through time), all of which was done in 1 story arc where he was amped.

Meanwhile Thanos has went up against the likes of Galactus & Odin.

Zack M
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
1. Flash rendering them motionless through speed stealing would make them easier to kill. Flash isn't, The Odinson, his intellect doesn't diminish as his anger increases.

2}SBP has taken on Legions OF the Legion of Superheroes. Trion Juggernaut's power is magic based. SBP is immune to magic, Cain's power is completely nullified.

3)PC Darkseid breaks ANY unenhanced version of The Emo Eggplant. The canon says so.

Speed steal should do it. Nothing the other team can do to prevent that

t0sh
Originally posted by Zack M
Speed steal should do it. Nothing the other team can do to prevent that
The speed steal argument has already been countered.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by t0sh
1) Flash is blood lusted. It's out of character for someone whose blood lusted to steal their speed. He's seeking blood.

If these characters weren't blood lusted, you might have a good argument, but that's not the case. Even so, it's out of character for Flash to do that right off the bat, so it's an irrelevant argument anyways.

2) Trion Juggernauts power will not effect Superman Prime directly. It will only keep him in the battle. If it isn't directly affecting Prime, his immunity to magic is also irrelevant.

3) There is little proof even in Pre Crisis to suggest Darkseid could win over Justice League, the closest fight he has had would be against Infinity Man (which he won) and against Firestorm (which didnt go so well for him).

Darkseid has never fought Superman in Pre Crisis chronology just as well, the closest is him beating Mon El, fighting Superboy and Supergirl together (where Superboy ends up getting BFRed through time), all of which was done in 1 story arc where he was amped.

Meanwhile Thanos has went up against the likes of Galactus & Odin.

You have to intentionally diminish Flash's mentality to make your case.

AGAIN, there is NOTHING in Flash's canon that indicates a diminishment in intellect and/or temperament that would cause him not to use that tactic. In addition, KMC rules allow for full capacity.

SBP's immunity to magic is HIGHLY RELEVANT against a character whose sole basis of power is MAGIC derived. Cain has absolutely no shot against Murderer Prime.

How much PC Darkseid have you read?

t0sh

Zack M
There is no logic in stealing speed. He can do it.

t0sh
Originally posted by Zack M
There is no logic in stealing speed. He can do it.
He'd blood lusted, so he wouldn't.

This is where you are missing stuff, Juggernaut cannot be harmed by physical means, does not matter how powerful superman is he cannot hurt juggernaut. That has always been Juggernaut's power complete immunity to physical force as long as he has enough supply of energy from Cyttorak.

Since Cyttorak is affecting Juggernaut only and not Superman Prime, he has no way to get around it.

Still doesnt show how he can harm juggy. There are only 2 ways of harming juggernaut: mindrape (which superman cannot) BFR (which superman can to normal juggernaut, i dont think he can to a 60 foot giant juggernaut)

Zack M
He would.

t0sh
Originally posted by Zack M
He would.
It contradicts the established rule and is completely out of character.

Zack M
Have faith.

t0sh
Bloodlust or bloodthirstiness refers to a desire to see blood being shed; it usually refers to a desire to see blood being shed in combat. Draining someones speed contradicts this principal.

It's an irrelevant argument that has been debunked.

Cogito
So you're deliberately handicapping one combatant to the point of arguable uselessness. That's cool no expression

SBP and PC Darkseid are still enough to win.

Sin I AM
has flash ever gone apeshit?

t0sh
Originally posted by Cogito
So you're deliberately handicapping one combatant to the point of arguable uselessness. That's cool no expression

SBP and PC Darkseid are still enough to win.
I'm following the established rules and going with what would occur in character. If we were to go against the established norm that has been set in place by both the writers and artists, I would simultaneously argue that Thor can just cut off his connection to the speed force. He's done so with Cyttorak, which is more powerful than the Phoenix Force, so he should be fully capable of doing so to the Flash as well. Considering that an in character Flash wouldn't drain them of their speed right off the bat, and the fact that Wally wouldn't possibly put Thor down, this would likely occur. But these are all hypothetical scenarios that probably would not occur. Therefore it's best to stick to with what is likely as opposed to what is not. Logical consistency is always a better alternative than illogical, speculative conjecture.

Superman Prime still has no way of putting down Trion Juggernaut indefinitely.

Pre-Crisis Darkseid is less durable than Thanos, whose shields are strong enough to deflect anything that Darkseid can throw at him.

And Darkseid lost to Supes the next time they fought in the same series.

Note i am not saying Pre Crisis Darkseid couldnt beat Superman but rather Pre Crisis Darkseid has never fought Superman. He has fought Mon-El, Superboy and Supergirl among Kryptonians, in a story that takes place 1000 years in the future, where he was holly amped with Legion's Orb, Excalibur sword, power stolen from Mordru, Time Trapper (later revealed to be fake and Controller pretending to be Time trapper), and a planet full of mystics along with other un-named artifacts.

Because of this, it's illogical that he would possess enough strength on his own to overcome Thanos, whose been shown to be capable of tangling with the likes of Odin and Galactus.

Cogito
Originally posted by Sin I AM
has flash ever gone apeshit? Yes. And it's caused him to speed steal and speedforce dump

Originally posted by t0sh
I'm following the established rules and going with what would occur in character. I'm arguing what's in character though, not you. You're just shutting down valid arguments on the basis of being the OP, which is guess is your prerogative.

Originally posted by t0sh
If we were to go against the established norm that has been set in place by both the writers and artists, I would simultaneously argue that Thor can just cut off his connection to the speed force. He's done so with Cyttorak, which is more powerful than the Phoenix Force, so he should be fully capable of doing so to the Flash as well. You're assuming Flash is dumb and immobile like the Juggernaut, which is a silly assertion.

Originally posted by t0sh
Considering that an in character Flash wouldn't drain them of their speed right off the bat
Full capacity and bloodlusted would suggest otherwise.

Originally posted by t0sh
and the fact that Wally wouldn't possibly put Thor down How the f is this a "fact"?

Originally posted by t0sh
But these are all hypothetical scenarios that probably would not occur. Therefore it's best to stick to with what is likely as opposed to what is not. Logical consistency is always a better alternative than illogical, speculative conjecture. All you're doing is cherry picking possible scenarios that support your point of view

Originally posted by t0sh
Superman Prime still has no way of putting down Trion Juggernaut indefinitely. He could arguably punch through Jugg's shield, since he effortlessly punched through two vastly larger dimensions to get to the 5th and pull Mxy out, among other dimensional busting punches. Don't like that? Flash takes off his helmet right off the bat and DS puts him down. Or better yet, DS mind controls him. Now it's 4v2

Originally posted by t0sh
Pre-Crisis Darkseid is less durable than Thanos, whose shields are strong enough to deflect anything that Darkseid can throw at him. PC Darkseid was vastly more powerful than PC Superman, who was crazy powerful in his own right.

Originally posted by t0sh
And Darkseid lost to Supes the next time they fought in the same series. You're going to need to be more specific

Originally posted by t0sh
Because of this, it's illogical that he would possess enough strength on his own to overcome Thanos, whose been shown to be capable of tangling with the likes of Odin and Galactus. Again, PC Darkseid is signficantly more powerful than PC Superman, who's in turn more powerful than the Hulk, who Thanos fears. Strong arguments could be made for PC Darkseid being comparable to Classic Odin or Galactus. Thanos was just put down the Ultimates. Lets not pretend like he's unbeatable because he's definitely not.

t0sh
Come on man, Flash sure as hell as enough feats to shows he can WTF-stomp before he can react (although in character is isnt one who'd do so).


Flash is predictable and this has lead to him getting caught. He isn't combat experienced and would likely do the same with Thor.


Being blood lusted infers that Flash will be seeking blood, not speed. In character, this wouldn't even happen.


Thor hasn't been put down from Odin, Galactus & Celestials.

Wally isn't doing anything here.


I'm sing your own logic against you. However, it contradicts the established norm.


The Omega Beams haven't been able to "Erase" people since the Pre-Crisis days. It's little better than a powerful laser and something that can be blocked, dodged, and countered. Juggernaut is invulnerable to harm. Not only does he have ludicrous durability, but he can even put up a magical force-field around himself to augment his durability. He's taken shots from people higher on the power scale than 'seid and not been slowed down.

Even at the possibility of his durability being breached, no level of injury will actually kill him. At least as long as he's the only Juggernaut. Even aged a hundred or more years and he didn't stop or slow down. Even when reduced to nothing more than a skeleton by a magical being stronger than Doc Strange, it didn't stop him. Cain Marko, the Juggernaut, just kept coming.

Zack M
Originally posted by Cogito
Yes. And it's caused him to speed steal and speedforce dump

I'm arguing what's in character though, not you. You're just shutting down valid arguments on the basis of being the OP, which is guess is your prerogative.

You're assuming Flash is dumb and immobile like the Juggernaut, which is a silly assertion.


Full capacity and bloodlusted would suggest otherwise.

How the f is this a "fact"?

All you're doing is cherry picking possible scenarios that support your point of view

He could arguably punch through Jugg's shield, since he effortlessly punched through two vastly larger dimensions to get to the 5th and pull Mxy out, among other dimensional busting punches. Don't like that? Flash takes off his helmet right off the bat and DS puts him down. Or better yet, DS mind controls him. Now it's 4v2

PC Darkseid was vastly more powerful than PC Superman, who was crazy powerful in his own right.

You're going to need to be more specific

Again, PC Darkseid is signficantly more powerful than PC Superman, who's in turn more powerful than the Hulk, who Thanos fears. Strong arguments could be made for PC Darkseid being comparable to Classic Odin or Galactus. Thanos was just put down the Ultimates. Lets not pretend like he's unbeatable because he's definitely not.

thumb up

t0sh
All arguments for Darkseid fail at this one. OF won't work since regular Classic Juggernaut couldn't be deleted from existence. Mind-raping, telepathic control won't work either. This Juggy was totaly imune to psi-blasts - furthere argument is that Cain's mind is takes by the evil side of the Trion gods who are at least the abstract level (totality of their realm/universe/dimension so basicly Eternities of their domain). He actually sucked Logan and Charles into his conciousness (with that feat shown the massive telepathic abilities himself).

Also strength, durability and stamina of Trion Juggernaut are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> even PC Darkseid (he was busting dimensions and dimensional barriers with his punches, incident left of dozens of dimensions/universes messed up ). Actually his durability and stamina are infinite.

Like Classic Cain this Juggy was immortal (he is powered version of Classic). And Trion Juggernaut was an inteligent villain so no arguments like PC Darkseid wins due to inteligence.

Also BFR I think won't be an option, since it would be impossible. To BFR him to another dimension/universe he will come back after 1 punch. To try to toss him to another side of the universe well out-muscle his forcefield and than outmuscle him (which is impossible).

Galan007
So why did you even make this thread if you're just going to argue with anyone who doesn't share your predetermined opinion on the outcome/characters? srsly

t0sh
Originally posted by Galan007
So why did you even make this thread if you're just going to argue with anyone who doesn't share your predetermined opinions on the outcome? srsly
To debate.

You're supposed to produce a convincing argument that can determine the winner. Arguments and counter arguments are expected, because we are trying to find a solution. Arguing that I'm not allowed to have an opinion on the matter is irrelevant, since my contribution can help allocate objective reasoning.

DarkSaint85
When Wally is apeshit, he does more than just 'kill' someone. He tortures them for eternity:

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11113/111139352/5226685-wally+west+speed+steal+2.jpg

t0sh
Doing something on one occasion doesn't necessarily make it the standard norm. There are countless scenarios where characters do something, but it doesn't mean that this is an in character feat that they can and will perform. From what we presently know about Flash, speed stealing, IMP attacks and punching one million times per second are strictly out of character.

Odin shook the Multiverse, but I won't say that it is a level of attack that he would always do if he's blood lusted.

People need to recognize this.

Zack M
Future Flash kills them all.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by t0sh
Doing something on one occasion doesn't necessarily make it the standard norm. There are countless scenarios where characters do something, but it doesn't mean that this is an in character feat that they can and will perform. From what we presently know about Flash, speed stealing, IMP attacks and punching one million times per second are strictly out of character.

Odin shook the Multiverse, but I won't say that it is a level of attack that he would always do if he's blood lusted.

People need to recognize this.

Being bloodlusted is also out of character, so as you've made him bloodlusted, in character, a bloodlusted Wally does speed steals.

If you feel different, please, post the times he has been apeshittily angry and NOT speed stolen. THEN we can ascertain what is the norm for an angry Wally and what isn't.

t0sh
We've covered this on several occasions already, being blood lusted implies that you're seeking blood. That's it, kapeesh. Trying to lower someones speed contradicts this principal, making it illogical and falsifying the analogy completely.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by t0sh
We've covered this on several occasions already, being blood lusted implies that you're seeking blood. That's it, kapeesh. Trying to lower someones speed contradicts this principal, making it illogical and falsifying the analogy completely.

Not really.

In this thread, Wally speed steals, so he can make his opponents bleed out satisfyingly. Or lends speed to just the blood, so LOADS of it rushes out at once.

The speed steal is just an intermediary step. One that Flash, who has attosecond reaction times, could perform in the blink of a heartbeat.

t0sh
Flash doesn't appear to be blood lusted in the scan above because it contradicts what 'blood lusted,' even means, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Anyways, this is counter-able.

The scan above shows that his speed is gone, but his mind is still completely functional. Therefore Thor can surround himself in lightning, and one shot of this would incapacitate Flash.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Random/ThorLightning04AvengersClassic5.jpg

Or he can summon lightning from the sky while being completely immobilized:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Random/ThorLightning05v229.jpg

Thor can also expel lightning while being immobilized:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Random/ThorOmniblast01AvengersAnnual07.jpg

Not only that, but Thor can use his mind and willingly force Mjolnir to attack The Flash:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir22-Self-GuidanceAvengers.jpg

Not even Zues is powerful enough to stop it, in all likeliness, neither would Flash:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir100-SummoningAnnual08.jpg

Thor has also shown the capability to summon lightning and/or storms from his body, he doesn't need speed to do so:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir94-Storm279.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir97-Storm.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir150-StormsAvengers306.jpg

Even if Flash attempts to dodge his attacks by traversing through dimensions, Thor can summon lightning without Mjolnir, that will follow him through dimensions:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir153-LightningAnnual14.jpg

One The Flash realizes that stealing his speed won't be an option, Thor will have the opportunity to counter-attack. One solution to decimating Flash would be to cover the entire world in a storm, giving the Flash nowhere to hide:

http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/11130/111302504/5469333-4062234663-qDIam.jpg

Thor can use the Speed Force and redirect its energies back at him, and multiple such energy by as much as 10x:

http://static9.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/11130/111302504/5469334-2666594395-3ZxfD.jpg

Thor has the capability to cover the entire planet in lightning, giving Flash nowhere to run. This form of attack would probably one shot the flash. Additionally, Mjolnir gives Thor the ability to cut off Flash's access to the Speed Force and/or absorb any sort of energy and redirect it back towards the Flash. Without Flash's access to the speed force, he loses rather quickly. To support these analogies, I'll include some scans to prove that Thor will last long enough to pull off one of these attacks.

Durability:

Thor resists crushing gravitation forces "akin to that of a neutron star" This amount of force is superior to anything that the Flash can dish out. Because of this, the Flash doesn't have a way to put Thor down indefinitely, he's too durable.

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/11130/111302504/5469335-7297286740-ThorD.jpg

Thor has resisted the "devastating energy of an exploding sun."

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/11130/111302504/5469338-5632182578-ThorD.jpg

Thor survives being rocked by multiple blasts by the Fourth Host of Celestials, which are Universal level entities and are infinitely more powerful than Wally West. If these being are incapable of putting Thor down immediately, than Wally West would also be ineffective.

http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/11130/111302504/5469341-8169935216-ThorD.jpg

Counter to Mind Tampering:

Thor can resist any mind tampering that the Flash tries to do to him. Here he even resists the Mind Gem, which would be a more effective attack than anything that the Flash can dish out.

http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/11130/111302504/5469342-7352281680-ThorM.jpg

Counter to Phasing:

Thor survives Shadowcat's phasing ability which bonds him physically with the ground itself

http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/11130/111302504/5469343-5400189378-ThorD.jpg

Counter to speed stealing:

Thor can create swirling force fields that can negate Flash's access to the Speed Force. He managed to cut off Juggernauts influence from Cytorrak, something significantly more powerful than the Speed Force.

http://static6.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/11130/111302504/5469347-1354121348-ThorM.jpg

These force fields that Thor can create are so powerful that they can negate attacks that are strong enough to destroy one fifth of the Universe. Therefore, IMP attacks are hereby rendered useless.

http://static7.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/11130/111302504/5469353-7051883057-ThorM.jpg

Thor has counters to anything that the Flash can do and he has survived attacks that could one shot the Flash, attacks that are significantly more powerful than anything that the Flash can do. Therefore, Flash would be unable to damage him. Even so, if he tried, Thor can simply use Mjolnir and negate all of his attacks, and if the Flash comes anywhere near him, Thor can cut off his access to the Speed Force, and one shot him. If the Flash kept his distance and decided not to come close, Thor can cover the planet in lightning and one shot him.

Since Flash is blood lusted, he wouldn't try and steal Thor's speed. He would engage Thor in combat. But the problem is that The Flash is predictable, and Thor would catch on to this eventually and counter him:

http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/11130/111302504/5469451-5434679692-46399.jpg

Thor is more than durable enough to absorb anything that the Flash can dish out.

Tanking Celestial attacks
Tanking Destroy Amour attacks
Tanking Odin attacks
Tanking weight of half a planet
Tanking weight of a couple of planets
Tanking planet destruction
Sitting in sun
Tanking attacks from Surtur

These are all classic Thor feats, in no way whatsoever, can the Flash hit harder than the Destroyer, Odin, Surtur or a friggen Celestial.

Thor is capable of throwing his hammer and having it trail the flash. So as the Flash is busy pummeling away on Thor, whose no selling his attacks, Mjolnir would connect and one shot the Flash:

http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/11130/111302504/5469466-8891691019-28366.jpg

The Flash's body has been shown to be affected by temperatures or lightning:

http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/11130/111302504/5469470-3783157942-28379.jpg

If Thor decides to use Mjolnir to attack Wally West, or if he decides to summon lightning himself, he could target Wally and cripple him, making it impossible for him to run away. Furthermore, Thor's feats above, particularly the one where Thor covers the world in lightning, shows that this would be an effective tactic, since the Flash would have nowhere to run and would eventually become crippled.

Additionally, the Flash is affected by water, so Thor could channel some water and decide to drown him:

http://static6.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/11130/111302504/5469472-2907596377-28379.jpg

Mjolnir has such a wide array of abilities that Thor can use it to affect the ground below him, which would affect the Flash and give Thor the opportune moment that he needs to single shot him:

http://static7.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/11130/111302504/5469473-2128602160-28398.jpg

Wally West does not posses the strength to damage Thor, whom also has a wide array of abilities that he can use to incapacitate the Flash's body and/or his connection to the speed force. Because these two are blood lusted, it will likely become a physical battle, which means that Thor will no sell his attacks until he decides to unleash Mjolnir and/or use his weather abilities to cover the planet in lightning and/or affect the Flash, momentarily incapacitating him... but... that's all he needs.

Faceless808
So a blood lusted fighter forgets all his skills and abilities and fights like a caveman? Does that apply to everyone or just Wally? Does that just apply to the DC characters? Like RL physics, your dictionary definition matters little here. Blood-lust is used to say, willing to kill, to go beyond CIS or self induced restrictions. It is used to say to the fullest of a characters abilities to the death. Your use here is a hindrance to their fighting abilities.

apex_pretador
Juggernaut's powers being magic based is irrelevant. He is not a sorecer, he won't attack SMP with magic. He is going to punch the life out of him.
On the other hand, SMP can't hurt Juggy. Darkseid can't hurt Juggy. Wally can absolutely not hurt him.
Juggernaut is unstoppable, flash can't speed-steal him.
it
Oh, and BFR? Trion J can come back out of any dimension he is trapped, by punching his way out, so there goes BFR. Not to mention that Thanos can teleport him.
TP? I'm not well aware of PC darkseid's TP feats but Thanos is a top level telepath whi makes planetary telepaths look like chumps. He can stop TP attacks. Not to mention that this verison of juggernaut is difficult to TP.

Infact THanos can BFR them allto an alternate dimension.

Faceless808
Originally posted by apex_pretador
Juggernaut's powers being magic based is irrelevant. He is not a sorecer, he won't attack SMP with magic. He is going to punch the life out of him.
On the other hand, SMP can't hurt Juggy. Darkseid can't hurt Juggy. Wally can absolutely not hurt him.
Juggernaut is unstoppable, flash can't speed-steal him.
it
Oh, and BFR? Trion J can come back out of any dimension he is trapped, by punching his way out, so there goes BFR. Not to mention that Thanos can teleport him.
TP? I'm not well aware of PC darkseid's TP feats but Thanos is a top level telepath whi makes planetary telepaths look like chumps. He can stop TP attacks. Not to mention that this verison of juggernaut is difficult to TP.

Infact THanos can BFR them allto an alternate dimension.

No limit fallacy anyone? SMP can't hurt jugs, Darkseid can't hurt jugs. Wally can't speed steal. why? because he's unstoppable!!

Are you aware SMP can punch through dimensions, too? Darkseid can teleport, too? Wally has an IMP, capable of hurting Superman? Oh, I forgot, blood lusted, so they forget all of their abilities and skill and fight like idiots.

iceman24567
Originally posted by Faceless808
No limit fallacy anyone? SMP can't hurt jugs, Darkseid can't hurt jugs. Wally can't speed steal. why? because he's unstoppable!!

Are you aware SMP can punch through dimensions, too? Darkseid can teleport, too? Wally has an IMP, capable of hurting Superman? Oh, I forgot, blood lusted, so they forget all of their abilities and skill and fight like idiots. thumb up Juggs being invincible here is laughable considering the versatility of team DC

t0sh
Originally posted by Faceless808
So a blood lusted fighter forgets all his skills and abilities and fights like a caveman? Does that apply to everyone or just Wally? Does that just apply to the DC characters? Like RL physics, your dictionary definition matters little here. Blood-lust is used to say, willing to kill, to go beyond CIS or self induced restrictions. It is used to say to the fullest of a characters abilities to the death. Your use here is a hindrance to their fighting abilities.
Being blood lusted means that the characters are out for blood, nothing more.

Zack M
Originally posted by iceman24567
thumb up Juggs being invincible here is laughable considering the versatility of team DC

That's what I'm saying. thumb up

abhilegend
Originally posted by t0sh
Pre-Crisis Darkseid would still have a difficult time with Thanos, whom was capable of forcing Galactus to exert some effort just to break through his force fields; that and Odin had some difficulty putting him down -mind you, he was trying to get him to surrender and he was fighting the Silver Surfer at the same time.


You're acting like Galactus or Odin are above Darkseid.



The same Juggernaut who was getting overpowered by a random octopus?

That's correct. But Wally isn't needed here.

apex_pretador
Originally posted by Faceless808
No limit fallacy anyone? SMP can't hurt jugs, Darkseid can't hurt jugs. Wally can't speed steal. why? because he's unstoppable!!

Are you aware SMP can punch through dimensions, too? Darkseid can teleport, too? Wally has an IMP, capable of hurting Superman? Oh, I forgot, blood lusted, so they forget all of their abilities and skill and fight like idiots. Regular juggernaut has been unhurt by things which would obliterate superman. 8th Day juggernaut is many times more powerful, and trion juggernaut is in whole different league.

Trion juggernaut can punch through universal barriers, let alone dimensions.

Unstoppability is Jugg's power, how will wally spead steal him? He is not above cyttorak.

Hurting superman is irrelevant in this battle. Every other person in this battle can pop superman like a balloon.

Yeah, darkseid can teleport, but my point was for everyone who was saying "TJ gets bfr'd", that Thanos can teleport him out of wherever he is. Thanos can teleport between different realities and dimensions, and do the same to others too. Can darkseid teleport SMP out of another universe?

Sin I AM
There should be a rule against scan dumping...sheesh

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by apex_pretador
Juggernaut's powers being magic based is irrelevant. He is not a sorecer, he won't attack SMP with magic. He is going to punch the life out of him.
On the other hand, SMP can't hurt Juggy. Darkseid can't hurt Juggy. Wally can absolutely not hurt him.
Juggernaut is unstoppable, flash can't speed-steal him.
it
Oh, and BFR? Trion J can come back out of any dimension he is trapped, by punching his way out, so there goes BFR. Not to mention that Thanos can teleport him.
TP? I'm not well aware of PC darkseid's TP feats but Thanos is a top level telepath whi makes planetary telepaths look like chumps. He can stop TP attacks. Not to mention that this verison of juggernaut is difficult to TP.

Infact THanos can BFR them allto an alternate dimension.

Superboy Prime PUNCHES through Trion Juggernaut as the magic based protection is USELESS against him. It's that simple.

You have a scan on this very page that shows what happens once Cains' magical protective aura is negated.

A KIND, Wally, reacts before anyone on Team Marvel reacts. When you add murderous intent he simply strips them of all inertia and murders them.

The scans support every aspect of my argument.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by t0sh
Flash doesn't appear to be blood lusted in the scan above because it contradicts what 'blood lusted,' even means, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Anyways, this is counter-able.

He was so pissed off, he thought death was too good - and he wanted to torture a kid for all eternity. That seems...pretty bloodlusted. Whether it was psychological blood, or physical blood, is moot.



The scan also shows it takes a speedster a 'hundred years' to even blink. Thor can command Mjolnir, summon lightning etc whilst immobilised? Where? None of your scans show this. It shows Thor screaming (which, if a speedsters' eyeblink takes a hundred years, will take Thor millenia, lol) and Iron Man immobilised.


Once Flash realises....you do realise, Flash thinks and reacts at attosecond levels, right? If option A does not work, he can do B, then C, then D etc etc before Thor can even react. And Flash would just vibrate through energy attacks, anyway.


Moot, as he would be frozen in place. This isn't even a immobilisation like being locked in place - it is literally nothing that Thor has ever encountered before.


OK. Flash ain't mindraping him. I will admit this?
Counter to Phasing:




IF he gets to put these amazing fields up, lol. Wolverine says hi:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/72524/1630793-thor_vs_wolverine_2.jpg

Damn, why am I using low-balling showings? ONLY because for some reason, you're using Deathstroke vs Flash as proof. Which is not allowed. But it shows in straight combat, a street level guy like Wolverine can comfortabl outspeed him. Flash, who runs rings around other speedsters? Lol.



Yah - if we can use DS, then we can use Wolverine, lol. And Flash has COMFORTABLY more showings of outspeeding beings way faster than DS, than Thor has of outspeeding beings faster than Wolvy, lol.



Ask the Anti-Monitor. You know, the guy who was destroying the DC multiverse?

Here, Wally lends speed to all his team mates. So, yeah, now Darkseid and SMP are all speed boosted:

http://i.imgur.com/qUzRzJE.jpg

And then, he punches the phuck outta the very same AM:
http://i.imgur.com/5xALU0p.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/58sMILE.jpg

At speeds so high, no one else can even see what's happening.


He wouldn't even perceive who his target it, let alone register that he needs to throw it, or take a step, or, well, do anything, really.

The Flash also heals at lightspeed. And has dodged lightning multiple times (as you have shown, one of his prime adversaries uses lightning).


He can phase THROUGH energy attacks like lightning. And becoming crippled? This is Wally when he first started:

http://dctvu.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Screen-Shot-2015-12-02-at-12.20.39-PM-copy1.png


A moment is like a lifetime to the Flash. For Thor to have a chance, would require extreme amounts of PIS.



Thor is not bloodlusted.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by apex_pretador
Regular juggernaut has been unhurt by things which would obliterate superman. 8th Day juggernaut is many times more powerful, and trion juggernaut is in whole different league.

Trion juggernaut can punch through universal barriers, let alone dimensions.

Unstoppability is Jugg's power, how will wally spead steal him? He is not above cyttorak.

Hurting superman is irrelevant in this battle. Every other person in this battle can pop superman like a balloon.

Yeah, darkseid can teleport, but my point was for everyone who was saying "TJ gets bfr'd", that Thanos can teleport him out of wherever he is. Thanos can teleport between different realities and dimensions, and do the same to others too. Can darkseid teleport SMP out of another universe?

SMP can simply punch his way back. He did it when going through alt. Earths. He did it when getting out the SF. He punched his way through the Phantom Zone. He too can punch through dimensions, lol.

You guys do realise Darkseid doesn't just BFR through space,right? He can also do it through time. Juggy will never get the gem of Cyttorak, for example. He can alter the past.

abhilegend
Originally posted by t0sh


Note i am not saying Pre Crisis Darkseid couldnt beat Superman but rather Pre Crisis Darkseid has never fought Superman. He has fought Mon-El, Superboy and Supergirl among Kryptonians, in a story that takes place 1000 years in the future, where he was holly amped with Legion's Orb, Excalibur sword, power stolen from Mordru, Time Trapper (later revealed to be fake and Controller pretending to be Time trapper), and a planet full of mystics along with other un-named artifacts.

And he was still not at full power as he was weakened by his own admission.



Darkseid while weakened oneshotted Mon-el in coma. Do let me know when either Galactus or Odin can do that to an above herald level being.

And Darkseid was compared to Infinite Man and Time Trapper in power. That's beyond Odin and Galactus combined.

abhilegend
Originally posted by t0sh


The Omega Beams haven't been able to "Erase" people since the Pre-Crisis days.

Really?



Or he could just use it to send Juggernaut in the past or future.





It matters little when the trion version of Juggernaut was beaten by Cain Marko in his own mind.

http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/30061677_RCO006_1468849127.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/30061678_RCO007_1468849127.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/30061679_RCO008_1468849127.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/30061680_RCO009_1468849127.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/30061681_RCO011_1468849127.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/30061683_RCO013_1468849127.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/30061684_RCO015_1468849127.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/30061685_RCO016_1468849127.jpg

Also Trion were not controlling Juggernaut, it was a second ruby which was doing it.



Funny thing, in the same story the second ruby almost killed him by draining his powers. Guess who is very adapt at draining magical power like Mordru's?

http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/30061682_RCO011_1469646059.jpg

abhilegend
Originally posted by apex_pretador
Regular juggernaut has been unhurt by things which would obliterate superman. 8th Day juggernaut is many times more powerful, and trion juggernaut is in whole different league.

Trion juggernaut can punch through universal barriers, let alone dimensions.

Superman has taken attacks that would kill Juggernaut too as well.



Haha, right.



Yes. Not that he needs to as SMP will just punch his way out. What if Darkseid teleports the entire team into past or future?

abhilegend
Originally posted by apex_pretador
Juggernaut's powers being magic based is irrelevant. He is not a sorecer, he won't attack SMP with magic. He is going to punch the life out of him.
On the other hand, SMP can't hurt Juggy. Darkseid can't hurt Juggy. Wally can absolutely not hurt him.
Juggernaut is unstoppable, flash can't speed-steal him.
it
Oh, and BFR? Trion J can come back out of any dimension he is trapped, by punching his way out, so there goes BFR. Not to mention that Thanos can teleport him.
TP? I'm not well aware of PC darkseid's TP feats but Thanos is a top level telepath whi makes planetary telepaths look like chumps. He can stop TP attacks. Not to mention that this verison of juggernaut is difficult to TP.

Infact THanos can BFR them allto an alternate dimension.
facepalm

Anyway Darkseid teleports all of them into past.



Or traps them in alternate realities which he can create.

Faceless808
Originally posted by t0sh
Being blood lusted means that the characters are out for blood, nothing more.

And that's what I'm saying, yet you nerf Wally by saying he wouldn't do this or he wouldn't do that. You say it's out of character, but being blood lusted is out of character to begin with.

Faceless808
Originally posted by apex_pretador
Regular juggernaut has been unhurt by things which would obliterate superman. 8th Day juggernaut is many times more powerful, and trion juggernaut is in whole different league.

Trion juggernaut can punch through universal barriers, let alone dimensions.

Unstoppability is Jugg's power, how will wally spead steal him? He is not above cyttorak.

Hurting superman is irrelevant in this battle. Every other person in this battle can pop superman like a balloon.

Yeah, darkseid can teleport, but my point was for everyone who was saying "TJ gets bfr'd", that Thanos can teleport him out of wherever he is. Thanos can teleport between different realities and dimensions, and do the same to others too. Can darkseid teleport SMP out of another universe?

All I see is opinion. And yes, Darkseid can teleport out of another universe.

AsbestosFlaygon
Omega Beams and pure Speedforce.

Speed steal by Wally, then team DC has 2 options against the now immobile team Marvel.
Send them to the past by DS, or clobber them to death with dimension-shattering punches from Superman Prime Guardian amped

abhilegend
Originally posted by t0sh
1) Flash is blood lusted. He would be seeking blood, not their speed.

b) SBP cannot put down Trion Juggernaut.

c) Doubtful. Thanos has Universal level durability. Something Darkseid has no answer against.
Thanos has universal level durability? That's why he ran from a supernova?

http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/30061691_thanos03_18.jpg

And two colliding planets which almost killed Galactus BTW.

http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/30061687_t-06-07.jpg http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/30061688_t-06-08.jpg http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/30061689_t-06-09.jpg http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/30061690_t-06-10.jpg

He was disintegrated by a solar system destroying attack.

http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/30061692_INFINTY_WARS03-16.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/30061693_INFINTY_WARS03-17.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/23346610_INFINTY_WARS04-07.jpg

Omega, who defeated Thanos casually and was twice as powerful as Galactus was killed by a planet exploding.

Not even Galactus has universal level durability. Much less Thanos.

erm

carver9
Didn't See TRION Juggernaut in this battle. Didn't pay attention to it. Team 1 wins.

iceman24567
Only person here with universal level durability in this thread is Prime. Team 2 wins

apex_pretador
Wait what? This forum is really hateful to marvel characters? Galactus disintegrated from Solar system attack? I know you are troll, but atleast troll harder, galactus wasn't even scratched.

And Planet colliding thing had context.

And Thanos is weird, he does whatever he wants. Not to mention that he had pip the troll and Warlock with him and his ship might have beed destroed. Thanos tanks black holes bigger than supernovas with scratches.

Bad trolling.


Also, meh, enjoy trolling. New 52 Superman solos team marvel, happy?

riv6672
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Explain how team Marvel wins.
Why?

You arent open to changing your mind.
I just read this entire thread and its the equivalent of people talking over each other smashing their shoes on a table.
As usual.

You, the thread starter and the regular cast of characters are simply indulging in the circular arguments that seem to satisfy some narcissistic need.
But i digress.

If i'd ever seen you change your mind in a debate, i might give you actual credence, but i havent so i dont.
I am NOT a master debater. My knowledge isnt encyclopedic, and i dont have folders of scans at the ready.
What i do have is respect for comics, and characters' abilities, and a willingness to give them the win if i feel they deserve it, despite my personal bias.
The opposite of you.
You're fun to banter with (in small doses), but not someone i'd ever spend time engaging in conversation on topics like this.
Thats why this is only my 5th and last post in 4 pages.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by riv6672
Why?

You arent open to changing your mind.
I just read this entire thread and its the equivalent of people talking over each other smashing their shoes on a table.
As usual.

You, the thread starter and the regular cast of characters are simply indulging in the circular arguments that seem to satisfy some narcissistic need.
But i digress.

If i'd ever seen you change your mind in a debate, i might give you actual credence, but i havent so i dont.
I am NOT a master debater. My knowledge isnt encyclopedic, and i dont have folders of scans at the ready.
What i do have is respect for comics, and characters' abilities, and a willingness to give them the win if i feel they deserve it, despite my personal bias.
The opposite of you.
You're fun to banter with (in small doses), but not someone i'd ever spend time engaging in conversation on topics like this.
Thats why this is only my 5th and last post in 4 pages.

You're not BUILT for these wars, boy!!!!

abhilegend
Originally posted by apex_pretador
Wait what? This forum is really hateful to marvel characters? Galactus disintegrated from Solar system attack? I know you are troll, but atleast troll harder, galactus wasn't even scratched.


Seriously?

http://i.imgur.com/9uWPw7w.jpg

Flat out said that he was disintegrated.

What context would that be?

That's some excuse of I ever saw one.

Good, he is almost Sodam Yat level who only had his ring. He also survived a black hole the effect of which were two lightyears. Just like Thanos.

Don't cry just yet.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
YOU ARE LOWLY, SCUM, UNWORTHY TO EVEN ADDRESS ME!!!

KNOW YOUR PLACE!!!!!

You hold no sway, Kryptonian filth cake. Marvel wins this.

Dareangel
Superman prime solos. he is completely imune to magic to the point even mxy couldnt effect him. as average SBP he laughed off mordru attacks. GA Prime solos.

iceman24567
Originally posted by Dareangel
Superman prime solos. he is completely imune to magic to the point even mxy couldnt effect him. as average SBP he laughed off mordru attacks. GA Prime solos. This statement is almost as bad as the one where Juggs is invincible

t0sh
Originally posted by iceman24567
This statement is almost as bad as the one where Juggs is invincible
Juggs is invincible.

Dareangel
Originally posted by iceman24567
This statement is almost as bad as the one where Juggs is invincible

why?

Dareangel
Originally posted by t0sh
Juggs is invincible.

no he is not. he was stopped many times before and even almost got killed by war hulk. ge enhancements can be overpowered and who is better for the job if not crazy overpowered guy who overpoweres everything in his path.

t0sh
Originally posted by Dareangel
no he is not. he was stopped many times before and even almost got killed by war hulk. ge enhancements can be overpowered and who is better for the job if not crazy overpowered guy who overpoweres everything in his path.
Jugs was kicking ass:

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/magneto1166/World%20War%20Hulk%20X-Men%203/WWHulkX-Men3-14.jpg

carver9
Originally posted by t0sh
Jugs was kicking ass:

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/magneto1166/World%20War%20Hulk%20X-Men%203/WWHulkX-Men3-14.jpg

3 hits isn't kicking someone ass, Hulk troll.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by Dareangel
Superman prime solos. he is completely imune to magic to the point even mxy couldnt effect him. as average SBP he laughed off mordru attacks. GA Prime solos.

WELCOME TO THE HOUSE OF EL

t0sh
Originally posted by carver9
3 hits isn't kicking someone ass, Hulk troll.
Hulk was clearly losing.

carver9
Originally posted by t0sh
Hulk was clearly losing.

How was Hulk after that page? Also, Hulk was holding back.

t0sh
Originally posted by carver9
How was Hulk after that page? Also, Hulk was holding back.
You're in denial.

carver9
Originally posted by t0sh
You're in denial.

You're in denial thinking that 3 hits decides a fight. Juggernaut wasn't even mentioned as one of the people who had the capabilites of stopping Hulk. It was Sentry and Hercules.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
3 hits isn't kicking someone ass, Hulk troll.

Lol. Isn't that how many times Hulk hit other people stick out tongue

t0sh
Originally posted by carver9
You're in denial thinking that 3 hits decides a fight. Juggernaut wasn't even mentioned as one of the people who had the capabilites of stopping Hulk. It was Sentry and Hercules.
People said Juggernaut almost died.

Keep reaching.

Dareangel
Originally posted by t0sh
People said Juggernaut almost died.

Keep reaching.

Lol i was talking about war hulk. war hulk is not world war hulk . war hulk is the hulk with the celestial tech

carver9
Originally posted by t0sh
People said Juggernaut almost died.

Keep reaching.

I didn't say Juggernaut almost died so I don't understand why you are telling me to keep reaching. What I am saying is, 3 hits doesn't determine a fight, especially when we see Hulk being at 100% right afterwards.

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