Vjun-Amped Dooku vs Darth Plaguies

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Jmanghan
1. Sabers
2. Force
3. All-Out

Trocity
Plagueis.

Ursumeles
Plaggy in all.

chingchangwalla
Dooku takes sabers, Plagueis wins through superior speed.

JKBart
terrible impersonation attempt smile

UCanShootMyNova
Plagueis in all but possibly sabers.

Emperordmb
Plagueis destroys.

MythLord
I see no reason for Plagueis not to win. Dooku was still solidly below Yoda at this point, and Plagueis should definitely perform better against the Grandmaster.

Kurk
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Plagueis in all but possibly sabers.

McP
Dooku takes sabers, Plagueis Force and all-out

SunRazer
Plagueis wins all.

Kurk
Why would Plag win sabers? He's noted to dislike saber combat and knows it's a weak spot for him. Dooku on the other hand loves it and is a master of it. Plagueis isn't speedblitzing him, especially with the Vjun amp. So why would he win?

SunRazer
Sidious doesn't like sabers either, so I guess Dooku beats him as well?

Plagueis wins because his brutality and Force reserves are going to push Dooku's shit in. Tyranus is more skilled, perhaps, but he isn't going to be able to bring that to bear if he's exhausted. It's going to take some time before Tyranus can outskill Plagueis, who's still his better in all physical areas. And by then, he'd have tired enough to be unable to beat Plagueis in a fight altogether.

Kurk
Originally posted by SunRazer
Sidious doesn't like sabers either, so I guess Dooku beats him as well?

Plagueis wins because his brutality and Force reserves are going to push Dooku's shit in. Tyranus is more skilled, perhaps, but he isn't going to be able to bring that to bear if he's exhausted. It's going to take some time before Tyranus can outskill Plagueis, who's still his better in all physical areas. And by then, he'd have tired enough to be unable to beat Plagueis in a fight altogether.
Then by that logic Savage should've been able to beat Dooku

Trocity
How? Dooku is vastly more skilled than Savage; that isn't the case here.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by Kurk
Then by that logic Savage should've been able to beat Dooku

Except that Dooku is also more powerful than Savage, on top of his skill advantage. Here he's facing a disparity the other way.

GM Yoda
Dooku.

ares834
Dooku
Plags
Plags

chingchangwalla
Originally posted by GM Yoda
Dooku.
Bold. Reasons?

Kurk

SunRazer
That cherry-picking is so good that the farmers here in Australia need your help to pick their fruit. I love how you highlighted the part where Venamis knew Plagueis' style inside-out but failed to mention that Dooku lacks such knowledge, and instead pretended that Plagueis' form was predictable. Which it obviously would be to someone who knew everything about his form, but not to someone who doesn't possess such knowledge, like Dooku. erm

Also, the part you quoted about "surrendering his precision and accuracy" was referring to Venamis, not Plagueis. Plagueis was the one who masterfully drew that out of Venamis despite the latter appearing refined and masterful, and that's how Plagueis won the fight.

So no, Plagueis doesn't employ wild strikes lacking precision and finesse - it's the opposite - he drew that out of someone who appeared masterful in combat. So in actuality, Plagueis is quite the refined swordsman with understanding of technique and precision.

You also continued to ignore my earlier point about how Sidious also considered lightsaber dueling to be tedious and only useful for humoring and humiliating Jedi, yet he's indeed better than Dooku as a swordsman. A lack of focus on saber combat isn't as important as being vastly stronger than someone in the Force.

And in the end, you weren't even reading Ellimist's post properly. He never said anything about Dooku not holding the edge in pure saber technique, only that he wasn't vastly more skilled, which you didn't even address.

Kurk
Originally posted by SunRazer
That cherry-picking is so good that the farmers here in Australia need your help to pick their fruit.
Thanks, I learn from Quanchi smile
Originally posted by SunRazer I love how you highlighted the part where Venamis knew Plagueis' style inside-out but failed to mention that Dooku lacks such knowledge, and instead pretended that Plagueis' form was predictable. Which it obviously would be to someone who knew everything about his form, but not to someone who doesn't possess such knowledge, like Dooku. erm
Dooku would analyze Plagueis and find a pattern/weakness like Makashi calls for and exploit it. Plagueis on the other hand would not find such impurities in Dooku's form.

Originally posted by SunRazer
This would not happen with Dooku simply b/c of his dedication to Makashi. Being a defensive form, Plagueis would be forced to prod and attack not Dooku.

Originally posted by SunRazer
So no, Plagueis doesn't employ wild strikes lacking precision and finesse - it's the opposite - he drew that out of someone who appeared masterful in combat. So in actuality, Plagueis is quite the refined swordsman with understanding of technique and precision.
You are going to argue that Plagueis had a superior knowledge of Makashi to Dooku?

Originally posted by SunRazer
You also continued to ignore my earlier point about how Sidious also considered lightsaber dueling to be tedious and only useful for humoring and humiliating Jedi
Who says he used it to humiliate jedi?

Originally posted by SunRazer
, yet he's indeed better than Dooku as a swordsman. A lack of focus on saber combat isn't as important as being vastly stronger than someone in the Force.
Sidious is stronger than Plagueis is the force. The disparity between Dooku and Plagueis is not so great that the latter can not contend with him long enough to exploit openings.

Originally posted by SunRazer

And in the end, you weren't even reading Ellimist's post properly. He never said anything about Dooku not holding the edge in pure saber technique, only that he wasn't vastly more skilled, which you didn't even address.
By definition all interpretations are valid

SunRazer
Originally posted by Kurk
Thanks, I learn from Quanchi smile

That explains it. smile



He might, if Force exhaustion doesn't clamp down on his perceptions and force him to retreat, without any hope of even retaliating. Sound familiar?



Plagueis wouldn't be forced to do anything, but yes, he would attack, and overwhelm Tyranus.



I don't know how you got that from the part you quoted. I don't even want to know.



He - Sidious - did.



Dooku can contend - just that he'll be on the permanent retreat and be expending his Force reserves lavishly on merely meeting Plagueis' blows, let alone doing anything else.

Plagueis' victory against Venamis is very impressive and constitutes an extremely high level of blade skill and more importantly, combative intellect. He's more than capable of holding his own against Tyranus with a blade, and factoring in his vastly superior physicals, Dooku's going to be outlasted and beaten into submission.



I didn't say anything about interpretations, and by definition, failure to respond to a point is a concession.

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