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Who wins?

Knew this was coming eventually. Up until the final episode of LC I would have said Carl wins. But that fight with Diamondback was sad. Sad sad sad.

Cap wins

I'd pick Luke at this point.

Really? Why?

Because when he stopped screwing around against Diamondback, he ended him in a handful of hits. And Diamondback's suit made him strong enough to cave people's chests in and send them flying 20+ feet with hits (and Luke straight up let him wail on him at one point), and the suit was also tough enough to tank gunfire (Shades tries to shoot him multiple times to no effect), as well as tank being slammed into the side of an SUV hard enough to move it. Fact is Cap has gotten tagged by people like Crossbones, Batroc etc. and Luke has shown that he isn't some mook when it comes to fighting either. And he is plenty strong enough to hurt Cap with his own hits.

Of course, this depends whether Cap has his shield or not. If he has his shield, this would be interesting. Pure H2H, I don't see how Steve can do it.

Fair points all around. I was thinking he was too durable for Cap to hurt but those hits DB was making him bleed with didn't look out of Cap's range. Cap should be able to one punch kill guys with the feats he has. Plus he has a ton more experience than Cage does. And he's fought more metas

Cage's one advantage(durability) was shot down in that fight with DB imo

Originally posted by juggerman
Fair points all around. I was thinking he was too durable for Cap to hurt but those hits DB was making him bleed with didn't look out of Cap's range. Cap should be able to one punch kill guys with the feats he has. Plus he has a ton more experience than Cage does. And he's fought more metas

Cage's one advantage(durability) was shot down in that fight with DB imo

I felt Diamondback is stronger than Cap though, considering he showed comparable strength to Luke (who I would put above Steve at this point). Steve hits people and send them flying, but rarely (if ever) does he totally cave people's chests in with 20+ feet hits. At least not with his fists. And the force DB was hitting Luke with caused the entire side of that SUV he was leaning against to cave in. Which is another thing. If being rammed by a speeding SUV did virtually nothing to him, but Diamondback's hits appeared to be affecting him, what does that tell you about how hard he was hitting? And we've seen Cage punch through things like steel and concrete, so Diamondback taking hit after hit and coming back for more shows serious durability. And while Diamondback might not be as skilled as someone like Cap, he was also by no means a noob when it came to fighting.

And while more experienced, I wouldn't say tons more. It's not like Cage is a noob either. He was an amateur boxer as a teen, was then a Marine, then a police officer, and then the top dog in the Seagate prison fighting ring. And that's the same prison Mandarin and Justin Hammer went to, so it's not like they send just anyone there.

And Cap has also been put under some pressure by people like Crossbones and Batroc, and had to get serious to beat them. So Cap has some lower end showings as well. And as far back as JJ, even having his head rammed through a brick wall during their fight didn't keep Luke off his feet for long.

Cap's hits can probably affect Cage some. But Cage can definitely affect Cap too. And Cage is still decisively more durable than Cap is, IMO. I don't see Cap simply being KO'd from a rocket launcher, followed by a building collapsing on him. But, like I said, this depends on the shield. I was leaning towards Luke, but if Cap has his shield, it would definitely be a hard fight, and the result not guaranteed (I figure if alien tech can harm him, a good chance vibranium could also have a decent effect). But I feel like Luke's strength and durability edge would seal it in H2H.

Yeah I see your point but I just can't get over the fight itself. Maybe it was a choreography thing but that shit just looked weak. Like when Cage picked DB up off the floor and threw him into the ceiling. That shit looked very weak for what these should be able to do yet it looked like it hurt him.

There was a few other parts too but I'd have to watch it again to point out specifics. I'll have to rewatch the JJ fight as well. Maybe he looked better there

Well, the overall fight choreography was not that great, IMO. At least not compared to things like Daredevil, or the actual MCU films. It was rather inconsistent from episode to episode. For example, the prison fights looked much more well choreographed than the final fight did to me. Even the fight between Willis and Luke, when Luke had the alien shrapnel in his belly, looked better. Which also shows you how silly something like getting thrown into the ceiling hurting Willis would be, considering he fell off a high gallery (without a HAMMER suit to protect him), and was able to get up and keep fighting.

Also, the final fight was rather contrived, just so that they'd have something to show. As I pointed out in another thread, realistically that fight should have been like 10 seconds tops. It looked like little more than a strap kept that helmet in place, and it had a massive exposed power source on the back. Luke should have just pulled the helmet off and tapped him on the head, or pulled the power pack off, rendering the suit useless. But they needed to stretch the fight, no matter how dumb it seemed (at least to me personally). But I guess part of it was also that Luke spent a big chunk of the fight trying to talk him down. To get over his anger etc. and all that. I think Luke even tells him at one point to calm down before he really had to hurt him. And, only at the end, when he realised words weren't going to cut it, did he put a proper hurting on DB.

Cap wins.

The fight between Luke and DD wasn't as some would have like it to be because Luke C was not trying to hurt DD. This is express many times by Luke during their fight. When Luke C decided to end the fight he did quickly. Reality is DD even with his skill and suit wasn't a match for Luke C.

This fight could go either way. I could see either winning due to their advantages. If I had to choose I would probably go with Capt because of his skill in fighting.

Why are people acting like Luke is some noob fighter here? DD h2h feats and skill easily compare with Cap's, and likely surpass him if using both TV and Movie feats. Yet somehow Luke is unskilled?

I think he meant DB, as in Diamondback, and made a typo. Either film/netflix Daredevil would get flattened by Cage IMO.

Okay, I thought something happened in a spin-off of the show where he fought DD briefly or made a cameo in the DD TV series.

VD, what would you say Cage's skill level is at. Let's say we have the following people... Where would you place his h2h skill level?

Cap
BW
CB
Batroc
Bale Man

Well, that's the thing, like I said, I felt that the overall fight choreography was not quite up there with some of the other MCU properties. Like the final fight is rather clunky, and not that well shot. But then during other scenes, like when he is fighting in prison, or dealing with mooks on a few occasions, he shows decent levels of skill (like easily blocking, countering hits etc. even though he really doesn't need to). I also recall an instance where one guy was flipping through the air towards him, doing some acrobatic spinning flying kick, and Luke casually caught his leg and tossed him over his head. And, as stated, he was also a marine and a cop, so has overall combat training and xp as well, on top of his boxing during his younger years.

That being said, I still wouldn't rate his skill quite on par with people like Daredevil, Punisher, Cap, Widow etc. because he did get overwhelmed and severely beaten in prison when two other guys with weapons jumped him and attacked him (though he had no powers at the time). But he still definitely showed that he clearly isn't clueless about fighting. Ultimately though, he didn't have that much time to show off too much finesse, because, for the most part, he simply outclassed his opponents too much during the show (stat-wise), so that it hardly mattered how skilled he actually was. That, and he openly stated that he holds back so as not to kill anyone.

At first I was going to say Luke Cage, but then I remembered that Cap actually did quite well against IM and Ultron. So now I'm not sure.

For now I'll say Cap wins with shield, loses without. I don't think Cap has the power to KO Luke in pure h2h, but then again he could also just dislocate limbs or something.

I don't know if that would work. Didn't Claire say something about his cells pulling themselves back together if they got stretched out etc.? That whole explanation about how his powers worked, and how it was sucking the alien metal deeper into his body. Something about his cells being super elastic yet also energy absorbent or some such shit. I don't really know though. It sounded like nonsensical pseudo-science to me.

For now I'm also going to say Cap with shield and Luke without shield. Cap should be faster, more agile, more experienced and more skilled. Luke should be stronger and more durable. The question might come down to stamina. We haven't really seen Luke pushed to the limits for any length of time while we know Cap is like the Energiser Bunny - he'll just keep going. He could probably just stay out of range and keep dodging until he wears Luke down.

Well, didn't Luke clear like 7 safe houses in the space of a few hours, without seeming at all tired by the end of it? Also, when he escaped after getting his powers, he swam all the way from Seagate to the mainland, which was no small distance.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, didn't Luke clear like 7 safe houses in the space of a few hours, without seeming at all tired by the end of it? Also, when he escaped after getting his powers, he swam all the way from Seagate to the mainland, which was no small distance.

Yes, but he didn't really exert himself. During the attacks on the safe houses he was walking the whole time, he never moved fast enough to push himself and I would assume he did the same thing when he swam - nobody was chasing him so he could take his time and conserve his energy. We never really see move Luke fast or with any sense of urgency that I can recall - he's always really careful to conserve his energy by walking and standing still, letting his opponents wear themselves out by attacking him until they get tired or run out of bullets.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Yes, but he didn't really exert himself. During the attacks on the safe houses he was walking the whole time, he never moved fast enough to push himself and I would assume he did the same thing when he swam - nobody was chasing him so he could take his time and conserve his energy. We never really see move Luke fast or with any sense of urgency that I can recall - he's always really careful to conserve his energy by walking and standing still, letting his opponents wear themselves out by attacking him until they get tired or run out of bullets.

Well, he did move with urgency when people were chasing him down with Judas bullets, as well as during his initial encounters with DB (including their first proper fight, when Luke had already taken a gut shot). Plus, I'd say the fact that he was still physically active for a significant amount after being shot by 2 Judas bullets shows some decent endurance.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, he did move with urgency when people were chasing him down with Judas bullets, as well as during his initial encounters with DB (including their first proper fight, when Luke had already taken a gut shot). Plus, I'd say the fact that he was still physically active for a significant amount after being shot by 2 Judas bullets shows some decent endurance.

Endurance, yes, he can take a helluva lot of punishment, but not stamina - he won't be able to duplicate Cap's feat of running at peak human speed for (can't remember exactly) an hour? Two? More? After he got hit by those Judas bullets he was staggering and DB was hurting him - if that had been Cap the fight would have been over. I'm picturing a scenario where Cap drops something very heavy on him (like he did with Spidey) and while Luke is recovering (like he did after the rocket collapsed the building on him) Cap could finish him off. Luke doesn't really have any long range attacks except throwing things which Cap can block or dodge, so he's already at a disadvantage.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Endurance, yes, he can take a helluva lot of punishment, but not stamina - he won't be able to duplicate Cap's feat of running at peak human speed for (can't remember exactly) an hour? Two? More? After he got hit by those Judas bullets he was staggering and DB was hurting him - if that had been Cap the fight would have been over. I'm picturing a scenario where Cap drops something very heavy on him (like he did with Spidey) and while Luke is recovering (like he did after the rocket collapsed the building on him) Cap could finish him off. Luke doesn't really have any long range attacks except throwing things which Cap can block or dodge, so he's already at a disadvantage.

It was 30 minutes that Cap was running in the beginning of TWS (13 miles in 30 minutes according to Sam). Besides, this is a fight, not a foot race. And yes, because when you have been shot with a large exploding bullet and you're bleeding all over the place, your body uses up a ton of energy just keeping you alive (the energy you'd normally be using for everyday activities). And he still got into multiple scuffles with DB, and took out those cops. So it is a feat of stamina as well. And it's not like Cap would have been in very good condition after taking a Judas to the gut, considering normal bullets have been shown to pierce him. I mean flip your scenario. Cap takes a Judas and then has to fight Cage. How does that go?

And those are some rather big ifs in that scenario. What is Cap going to be dropping on him here? You're assuming the setting has something like that for Cap to drop on him, and that Cage (who is much more experienced than MCU Spiderman at this point), would fall for the same tactics. Cottonmouth only managed to hit him with the rocket because he was not expecting it, and was sitting around, having a chat with that old Asian woman.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Endurance, yes, he can take a helluva lot of punishment, but not stamina - he won't be able to duplicate Cap's feat of running at peak human speed for (can't remember exactly) an hour? Two? More? After he got hit by those Judas bullets he was staggering and DB was hurting him - if that had been Cap the fight would have been over. I'm picturing a scenario where Cap drops something very heavy on him (like he did with Spidey) and while Luke is recovering (like he did after the rocket collapsed the building on him) Cap could finish him off. Luke doesn't really have any long range attacks except throwing things which Cap can block or dodge, so he's already at a disadvantage.

So now we're working under the premise that Cap will "just have some heavy fall out Luke, and he'll have to deal with that and then Cap will close the show" I see.

So why couldn't I say, I envision a scenario where Cap tries to engage Cage h2h, but Cage's superior strength, durability and punching power get him the win?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Why are people acting like Luke is some noob fighter here? DD h2h feats and skill easily compare with Cap's, and likely surpass him if using both TV and Movie feats. Yet somehow Luke is unskilled? I meant DB, typo. Luke is a skilled fighter as well as DB the show clearly shows that. Personally I think either fighter could win against each other.

I see comments stating that Luke is stronger. I can't recall feats that dictate that statement. I would think their strength is perhaps comparable.

Well, their highest end feats, the helicopter and the SUV, are in the same ballpark in terms of tonnage, based on calcs I have seen people attempt on various boards. Because a large SUV like the one Luke stopped can easily weigh about 2.5+ tons. And it was already going at a decent rate. Plus, based on the audio/the sound the car was making, the driver was stepping on the gas as he was baring down on Claire and her partner. So 2.5+ ton object under acceleration would work out to something similar to the chopper. But Luke did his feat with more ease than Cap held down the helicopter. Plus, he has better overall barefisted striking feats compared to Cap, like punching through concrete and steel.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, their highest end feats, the helicopter and the SUV, are in the same ballpark in terms of tonnage, based on calcs I have seen people attempt on various boards. Because a large SUV like the one Luke stopped can easily weigh about 2.5+ tons. And it was already going at a decent rate. Plus, based on the audio/the sound the car was making, the driver was stepping on the gas as he was baring down on Claire and her partner. So 2.5+ ton object under acceleration would work out to something similar to the chopper. But Luke did his feat with more ease than Cap held down the helicopter. Plus, he has better overall barefisted striking feats compared to Cap, like punching through concrete and steel. A lot of assumptions there but fair enough. I can also see the chopper being a greater feat. Either way I don't see their strength being that far apart from each other.

I know JJ was not as strong as Luke. I think she needed two hands to keep one of his fist away from punching her. I think she would have to do the same against Capt.

Also, since Luke has shown the ability to be KOed by a powerful enough blow to the head I think Capt definitely has a chance to KO Luke.

Originally posted by Kotor3
A lot of assumptions there but fair enough. I can also see the chopper being a greater feat. Either way I don't see their strength being that far apart from each other.

I know JJ was not as strong as Luke. I think she needed two hands to keep one of his fist away from punching her. I think she would have to do the same against Capt.

Also, since Luke has shown the ability to be KOed by a powerful enough blow to the head I think Capt definitely has a chance to KO Luke.

So you think Cap could stop a speeding SUV dead in its tracks by shoulderchecking it? Because that's strength. Not durability. Durability is not getting hurt while doing it. And what about Luke's better fist striking feats?

And Jessica herself stopped a slower moving taxi early in her own series, with one hand, IIRC.

And let's not pretend any hard blow to the head can KO Luke. Jessica rammed his head through a brick wall and it barely slowed him down. DB also landed several headshots. The two instances Luke got KO'd were very specific. Once when he literally got hit by a rocket, and then had tons of rubble drop on him. And the second time was when someone pressed a 12-gauge shotgun behind his chin bone, basically aiming it directly at his brain stem, and pulled the trigger. And Luke was trying to resist Kilgrave's control at the time, and even stopped himself long enough to tell Jessica to "do what you gotta do", at which point she shot him. He's not going to be trying to hold himself back and waiting for Cap to clock him.

I can see him wearing him down with the shield, but not with just his fists.

I think Luke is stronger and more durable than Cap. Cap was never meant to be the powerhouse that guys like Luke Cage are supposed to be.

But Cap has a more enhanced physicality, meaning not only is his strength enhanced but also his speed, reflexes, stamina, agility, etc. And in these, he has the advantage.

So while Luke has the edge in pure strength and durability, Cap has the edge in everything else.

Cap doesn't have the damage output to KO him

Originally posted by carthage
Cap doesn't have the damage output to KO him

Not without his shield, I agree. However, I'm curious if he's able to dislocate limbs and stuff like he did to WS.

@ Kotor. For some reason, quoting is wack for me now.

Firstly, that is not how physics operates. Durability wouldn't help in standing your ground. It would help you in remaining uninjured as you were sent flying. Cap has been sent flying by RPGs/tank shells on more than one occasion, despite even having his shield to block. Winter Soldier pushing him with just his metal arm was great enough to smash him through metal elevator doors, and Steve was braced and pushing back with both arms.

Luke jumped out of a 5th story window, landed on his feet without any issues whatsoever (cratering the ground), and took off running. When Cap jumps from those kinds of heights, he usually has to tuck into a roll to absorb some of the impact.

It was not just his bare hands. It was his fists and shield strikes. And his fists were doing superficial damage at best. And all Friday told him was that he couldn't best Steve in H2H. Up until Cap drove the shield into the arc reactor, the only damage of note he had done to Tony's suit was the busted flight repulsor, and he did that with his shield.

So let me ask you this. Do you actually think Cap could put Tony's suit out of commission with just his fists?

Originally posted by carthage
Cap doesn't have the damage output to KO him I disagree. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnZt9PFFz2I

Fight scene between Capt and Ironman shows he does. Capt didn't just used his shield he used his bare fist plenty. Capt also as well as WS took direct hits in the face (multiple) from Ironman. If Capt and punch ironman's armor and back his his bare and cause damage he definitely can KO Luke with multiple hits.

That's not saying much. Like I said, the damage was superficial at best. The only notable damage came from the shield and Bucky's arm. In Civil War, even Redwing flying into Tony managed to damage his suit.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
@ Kotor. For some reason, quoting is wack for me now.

Firstly, that is not how physics operates. Durability wouldn't help in standing your ground. It would help you in remaining uninjured as you were sent flying. Cap has been sent flying by RPGs/tank shells on more than one occasion, despite even having his shield to block. Winter Soldier pushing him with just his metal arm was great enough to smash him through metal elevator doors, and Steve was braced and pushing back with both arms.

Luke jumped out of a 5th story window, landed on his feet without any issues whatsoever (cratering the ground), and took off running. When Cap jumps from those kinds of heights, he usually has to tuck into a roll to absorb some of the impact.

It was not just his bare hands. It was his fists and shield strikes. And his fists were doing superficial damage at best. And all Friday told him was that he couldn't best Steve in H2H. Up until Cap drove the shield into the arc reactor, the only damage of note he had done to Tony's suit was the busted flight repulsor, and he did that with his shield.

So let me ask you this. Do you actually think Cap could put Tony's suit out of commission with just his fists? I don't agree with everything you said but to stay on point here is the point I am making. Capt was hitting Ironman's suit with his bare hand. He did not break a bone and the combo of his fists and shield were causing damage. You can assume if you wish that his fist were doing superficial damage but the film shows a combination of shield and fist as damaging to Stark's Ironman suit.

No, I do not believe that Capt would put Tony's suit out of commission with his bare fist. Second point, Capt was targeting the head of IronMan. I do not see Luke Cage's skin as more durable than Tony's suit. Also, as shown Luke can be KOed by a force stronger enough to his head. I did not say one hit from Capt but multiple could do so.

Also, Capt was taking direct hits to the face from Ironman and did not move. So Capt can take a lot also.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
That's not saying much. Like I said, the damage was superficial at best. The only notable damage came from the shield and Bucky's arm. In Civil War, even Redwing flying into Tony managed to damage his suit. Okay. There not much more I can say. We are not going to agree on this one. I don't see the fight so one sided.

I think Capt has a chance of winning.

Cap's faster, more agile and a much, much, much better fighter, but Cap's not punching out someone who took a shotgun blast to the chin and survived, then took an exploding round inside his abdomen.

Give Cap his shield, he might be able to KO Cage with enough blows to the head/face.

@ Kotor - Well, you seem to be in a minority here, as most people seem to agree Cap would need his shield in order to KO Luke.

The joint thing is up for debate, IMO. Even if possible, I think it would be a lot easier said than done.

With his shield Luke is screwed, since Cap tanked a direct hit from Thor's hammer without even blinking. Without his shield I still believe Cap has an advantage, since Luke is basically a slow tank. Cap has the advantage in speed, skill, manoeuvrability, agility and adaptability, plus he is superhumanly strong and durable himself, though I probably not as strong and definitely not bulletproof.

Originally posted by Robtard
Cap's faster, more agile and a much, much, much better fighter, but Cap's not punching out someone who took a shotgun blast to the chin and survived, then took an exploding round inside his abdomen.

Give Cap his shield, he might be able to KO Cage with enough blows to the head/face.

Give Cap the shield and Luke probably won't land a blow on him. So then becomes a matter of how many times Cap needs to hit Luke with the shield to disable him.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
@ Kotor - Well, you seem to be in a minority here, as most people seem to agree Cap would need his shield in order to KO Luke.

The joint thing is up for debate, IMO. Even if possible, I think it would be a lot easier said than done. Fair enough. Question, do you think Luke's skin is as durable as Tony's suit?

He doesn't necessarily have to just hit. Again, Luke isn't just some complete idiot. He can also try to grab it, if he realises he isn't landing hits, like he did to Jessica when she tried to use a car door as a shield.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Fair enough. Question, do you think Luke's skin is as durable as Tony's suit?

Depends which suit. They tend to vary in durability across the films. Some of his suits in IM3 barely took any effort to destroy, and even his Civil War suit isn't particularly impressive compared to some earlier ones. I genuinely have a hard time seeing that suit hold up as well to Iron Monger's onslaught as his suit at the time did.

Yeah, definitely. The Mark III took a tank shelling and plummet down to earth with only superficially scratching, hit by an F-22 and then beaten on by Monger.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Give Cap the shield and Luke probably won't land a blow on him. So then becomes a matter of how many times Cap needs to hit Luke with the shield to disable him.

I think he would land a few at least, Cage would be working hard to get around the shield though.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
With his shield Luke is screwed, since Cap tanked a direct hit from Thor's hammer without even blinking. Without his shield I still believe Cap has an advantage, since Luke is basically a slow tank. Cap has the advantage in speed, skill, manoeuvrability, agility and adaptability, plus he is superhumanly strong and durable himself, though I probably not as strong and definitely not bulletproof.

It's statements like these that really bother me. You'll cite how Cap survived Thor's hammer strike without even blinking. Yet, MUCH less than that, and RPG, KO'd for like 10 minutes. You can't have it both ways, all showings count.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
It's statements like these that really bother me. You'll cite how Cap survived Thor's hammer strike without even blinking. Yet, MUCH less than that, and RPG, KO'd for like 10 minutes. You can't have it both ways, all showings count.

Not sure I understand exactly what you're saying, but if you are comparing the impact of Mjolnir to an RPG I would say the difference is that Cap could use the abilities of his shield to absorb the hit from Mjolnir, while an RPG would deliver a more general concussive blast that might knock him out simply because his shield can't protect him in a 360 degree radius.

HUH? That doesn't make any sense... the explosion didn't happen in back of him.. He covered up like he always does and it hit his shield directly.. yet STILL sent him flying and KO'd him. As I said, all showings count.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
HUH? That doesn't make any sense... the explosion didn't happen in back of him.. He covered up like he always does and it hit his shield directly.. yet STILL sent him flying and KO'd him. As I said, all showings count.

Remind me again, when did this happen? I will have to watch it again to try and make sense. All I know is an RPG is basically a big grenade, so even if it doesn't hit you directly the shockwave can still lift you up and fling you through the air. The shield can tank a direct hit, however, so it will nullify the energy from a punch, a bullet or Thor's hammer, since the force of the impact is concentrated in one area instead of spread out over a large area.

It was in the WS Freeway Scene

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
It was in the WS Freeway Scene

Thanks, will watch it again tomorrow when I have a moment.

Cap was braced by the ground where he had no brace when hit by the rpg samething happened in CW against Crossbones.

Why are we debating about this anyway? Does anyone think that Cap will be knocked off his feat if Luke punches his shield? Because I don't see that happening at all.

Possibly. If he doesn't have a brace he could be knocked off his fear at most he only weight 240lbs.

Originally posted by golem370
Possibly. If he doesn't have a brace he could be knocked off his fear at most he only weight 240lbs.

Doesn't matter. 1. The shield can absorb energy. 2. The shield is attached to his arm which is mobile. If the energy is too much then his arm will just move or swing away. The only way Luke can topple him is if he braces his entire body behind the shield and Luke somehow delivers a powerful enough blow that his shield and strength can't handle it.

Yet it didn't absorb the kick of Spider-Man or the rpg hits even when WS hit the shield it jared Steve.

Originally posted by golem370
Yet it didn't absorb the kick of Spider-Man or the rpg hits even when WS hit the shield it jared Steve.

I'll have to double check Spiderman's kick but WS never knocked Cap off balance by hitting his shield if I recall and the RPG round, as was pointed out in other posts, has a wider blast radius so it would have been hard for the shield to absorb the entire impact.

Edit: I checked the Spiderman fight, and Spidey kicks Cap in the face, not the shield.

The shield has some inconsistent showings, where it should have absorbed and redirected the energy/force hitting it but didn't.

I'd go with what it's supposed to do and often seen doing, so Cap could use it to successfully block any punch from Cage without harm to himself.

Cap takes care of business pure and simple

the way I see it, Spider man is implied to be naturally stronger than any of the Avengers bar Vision, Hulk and Thor and Steve was able to get the upper hand on him in a physical matchup. With showings like that he can dust Cage shield or not IMO.

Originally posted by relentless1
the way I see it, Spider man is implied to be naturally stronger than any of the Avengers bar Vision, Hulk and Thor and Steve was able to get the upper hand on him in a physical matchup. With showings like that he can dust Cage shield or not IMO.

PIS at it's finest...i cringed so how hard at that scene...

Yeah that Spider-Man and Cap fight was crap I chalk it up too it being Cap's movie.

I just thought Spidey was still very inexperienced in this fight and that maybe he hadn't really fought anybody with superpowers yet - especially not somebody with Cap's skill and experience. He got hit by Falcon's flying little droid as well, which he should have been able to dodge with his spider sense and enhanced reflexes. It gave me the impression that he was slightly overwhelmed, which made sense if he'd only been fighting street thugs so far.

He easily over powered Bucky's metal arm yet struggles holding Cap with his webs he even stopped a 3000 pound car running 30+mph

Hey I totally agree with you guys, Steve shouldn't be able to touch Spidey but it is what it is and thats feats for the red white n blue guy, i thought it was super far fetched that he was able to yank Spider Man towards his kick by grabbing his webbing tbh

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Depends which suit. They tend to vary in durability across the films. Some of his suits in IM3 barely took any effort to destroy, and even his Civil War suit isn't particularly impressive compared to some earlier ones. I genuinely have a hard time seeing that suit hold up as well to Iron Monger's onslaught as his suit at the time did. Makes sense.

Originally posted by Robtard
The shield has some inconsistent showings, where it should have absorbed and redirected the energy/force hitting it but didn't.

I'd go with what it's supposed to do and often seen doing, so Cap could use it to successfully block any punch from Cage without harm to himself.

I would agree with this. I'm not sure Cage has quite enough striking power to send Steve off his feet even while blocking. Who knows though, he does have some impressive striking power.

The whole Steve vs. Spidey fight was one big pile of PIS and CIS. I look at that scene no other way.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I would agree with this. I'm not sure Cage has quite enough striking power to send Steve off his feet even while blocking. Who knows though, he does have some impressive striking power.

Not any more than Ironman and definitely nothing compared to Mjolnir.

Not sure about that... some grenades aren't able to blow up a steel door surrounded by concrete. Yet, Cage was able to destroy one with ease. It all just depends. I would say if you took Cage's best striking feat.. and Cap's worst shield showing... he's getting knocked off his feet.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Not sure about that... some grenades aren't able to blow up a steel door surrounded by concrete. Yet, Cage was able to destroy one with ease. It all just depends. I would say if you took Cage's best striking feat.. and Cap's worst shield showing... he's getting knocked off his feet.

What exactly is Cap's worst shield block showing?

Also, wouldn't that be unfair? Getting the best feat of one and comparing it with the worst of the other? Shouldn't we be taking the average at least?

I'd imagine a solid strike from Luke against a Cap who is bracing properly with his shield would probably end up similar to 1:39 here:

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Originally posted by FrothByte
What exactly is Cap's worst shield block showing?

Also, wouldn't that be unfair? Getting the best feat of one and comparing it with the worst of the other? Shouldn't we be taking the average at least?

I agree, which is why I said it likely wouldn't move him much if at all. I was taking the average showings.

Here's a question: Who do you guys think can generate a stronger punch: Luke Cage or Winter Soldier's robo arm?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Here's a question: Who do you guys think can generate a stronger punch: Luke Cage or Winter Soldier's robo arm?

That is really tough to say, IMO. They've both been shown to be able to punch through similar tough materials, and have been able to send people sailing through the air with clean hits. I honestly wouldn't be able to give a confident answer.

I'll side with VD on this one. He has more knowledge of Cage and his best feats. I've only started to watch it.

Well, one thing I feel confident in saying is that Bucky's robot arm's punching speed is better than Luke's.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Here's a question: Who do you guys think can generate a stronger punch: Luke Cage or Winter Soldier's robo arm?

Cage. He sent guys flying further with one punch than Bucky did with one kick. Kicks are stronger than punches ergo Cage must be stronger

Originally posted by relentless1
Cage. He sent guys flying further with one punch than Bucky did with one kick. Kicks are stronger than punches ergo Cage must be stronger

Winter Soldier's kicks would be stronger than hits from his normal arm, but whether they are stronger than hits from his robot arm is debatable. In fact, I would say that Bucky's robot arm is stronger than one of his legs.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Winter Soldier's kicks would be stronger than hits from his normal arm, but whether they are stronger than hits from his robot arm is debatable. In fact, I would say that Bucky's robot arm is stronger than one of his legs.

hes able to easily overpower Cap on equal footing with the mech arm, Cap was able to grapevine and overpower the arm later on though; its really hard to compare though. WS punched the shield and didn't really move Steve iirc, he was able to punch a hole in pavement but Cage has done better than that. Im leaning towards Cage being stronger than Buckys mech arm, but not by a huge margin.

The Mech arm overpowered Steve in WS & CW

Originally posted by relentless1
hes able to easily overpower Cap on equal footing with the mech arm, Cap was able to grapevine and overpower the arm later on though; its really hard to compare though. WS punched the shield and didn't really move Steve iirc, he was able to punch a hole in pavement but Cage has done better than that. Im leaning towards Cage being stronger than Buckys mech arm, but not by a huge margin.

I agree it's hard to compare at this point (which is why I said I can't really give an accurate answer), because Cage has WAY more feats than Bucky. But WS did also punch a massive dent in the elevator during is Civil War scuffle with Cap (before smashing Steve through), punched a hole in the pavement, and knocked some concrete out of a wall with a blow that Sam dodged, during that same Civil War scene. So that arm has shown that it can also damage those kinds of substances, just like Cage's fists can. I would say that the uppercut Cage gave DB to lay him out is further than any hit Bucky has dished out, but then I can't recall WS specifically uppercutting anyone with his metal arm.

Cap gets knocked off his feet twice due to his shield being hit by an RPG. Once in WS by Bucky and once in CW by Crossbones. Twice is too much to ignore, and actually becomes consistent with that type of weapon.

That said when neither WS's metal arm or IM can do anything by punching Cap's shield, then Luke Cage's punch won't be doing jack either.

Cage stopped a vehicle with a shoulder block. He's way above Bucky.

I think hes above spiderman man physically or atleast equal. But definitly above durability wise

If he is he wrecks cap

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
If he is he wrecks cap

Not necessarily. He may have Spidey-level strength but he doesn't have Spidey-level speed. And while I do think Cage wins this fight, I do think he'll need to work hard for it.

Any guy who can go toe-to-toe with IM will give Cage a fight.

Let's not forget Tony's suit was gimped.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Let's not forget Tony's suit was gimped.

And go toe to toe with Ultron.

Cap wins

Cage wins in the end, Rocket Proof, Bullet Proof, stopped a speeding vehicle like it was nothing when it ran into him, ended up destroying the vehicle. Punched through solid re enforced concrete. Tosses people through walls like paper without effort. Cap really cant hurt him at this point.

Captain America works Cage, and tbh I don't know how hard it'll be for
him with his far superior speed, shield and hand to hand skills. Cage's only advantage is his durability and that's not going to mean much against Steve who's strong enough to harm him with his fists and could ruin his day with the Shield.

I'm not certain Cage is even stronger, especially after Civil War. I think people are forgetting how strong Steve was intended to be as far back as his first movie and the first Avengers. Punching through Submarine glass, tossing guys as far as Luke does even though they're full armored etc.

I remember that SHIELD episode from Season 1 where Deathlok moves a bulldozer across a football field and it was said he wasn't even close to Captain Americas record.