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Same Premise, who wins?

Vader ragdolls.

Like he rag dolled *ESB Luke?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5070089-1318046255-2016-.png

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Vader ragdolls.

Reasons?

so this is what happens when Ziggy gets anally raped in a debate lmfao

More or less.

So were just going with the same old butthurt and denial?

...Isn't that comic outdated? :/

It's legit C-canon.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
So were just going with the same old butthurt and denial? Seems that way, when're you going to give it up and realise nobody's about to validate you?

Who has Vader ragdolled into brutal submission ? Let's see the evidence, Vader fanbois.

Starkiller.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
It's legit C-canon. It was published post-Disney so it's not C-Canon.

Bare in mind that Fightsaber was written before ROTS came out, so it's referring to Obi Wan in Attack of the Clones/Phantom menace.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Starkiller. Is that canon ?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Vader ragdolls.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Who has Vader ragdolled into brutal submission ? Let's see the evidence, Vader fanbois.


Pretty much anyone of note who's tried to escape Vader's force grasp has done so. He got beaten by starkiller twice and it appears even ESB Luke can block his TK

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Pretty much anyone of note who's tried to escape Vader's force grasp has done so. He got beaten by starkiller twice and it appears even ESB Luke can block his TK Is the starkiller stuff canon ?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
...Isn't that comic outdated? :/
This, and if ESB Luke would've hindered Vader toragdoll him, that means just ESB Luke>>Fisto

All it means is Vader couldn't rag doll a noob who didn't know how to block a Force choke and Fisto is confirmed to be Vader's superior in Cestus Deception

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
It's legit C-canon.


Maybe you haven't heard, but there is no legit C-Canon anymore.

There's either Canon or Legends (Legends being work that's not Canon).

Then it's legit Legends then

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Maybe you haven't heard, but there is no legit C-Canon anymore.

There's either Canon or Legends (Legends being work that's not Canon). But there can be non-canon legends work.

Thats only non-canon to legends.

Lol

It's not Legends, Legends is Expanded Universe material published before the reboot.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Is the starkiller stuff canon ?

It's in cut scenes which do not occur in the other game versions, novel or comic. So if you want to be like Zoltan and apply the multiverse theory to the feats then I guess they could be. Otherwise they're contradicted.

That's not what he meant, he means Canon with a capital "C" because Quan believes Legends material to be "fan fiction."

Anyway if we are going to discuss this feat seriously it should be noted that Vader was toying with/testing Luke in that fighto it's unlikely that he was unleashing his full power in that telekinetic attack.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
It's in cut scenes which do not occur in the other game versions, novel or comic. So if you want to be like Zoltan and apply the multiverse theory to the feats then I guess they could be. Otherwise they're contradicted.

It was in 3 sources actually, and supported by Witwer.

Now go on, let's have that salt.

If you're referring to the game versions that maintain the same cut scenes across different consoles ( PS3/Xbox360 ) then you'd be down to one. If you're referring to Vader choking Starkiller in different cutscenes on the Wii versions it doesn't change that it doesn't occur in the other versions.

Witwer being a non canon source who, let me remind you, you all ignored his commentary on Maul when the finale for Rebels season 2 first came out. Hypocrite.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Now go on, let's have that salt. Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Witwer being a non canon source who, let me remind you, you all ignored his commentary on Maul when the finale for Rebels season 2 first came out. Hypocrite. Lmao.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
If you're referring to the game versions that maintain the same cut scenes across different consoles ( PS3/Xbox360 ) then you'd be down to one. If you're referring to Vader choking Starkiller in different cutscenes on the Wii versions it doesn't change that it doesn't occur in the other versions.

PC: https://youtu.be/-AK3ZmkjsqE?t=2h21m25s
PS: https://youtu.be/C-qLmEhVSrs?t=16m19s
Xbox: https://youtu.be/FginrdtbmZk?t=20m56s
Wii: https://youtu.be/pPEwcVujTrM?t=3m13s

Prima Official Game Guide: "You grab your sabers and attack, but Vader is too powerful. He tosses you away like a rag doll."

Any more questions?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Witwer being a non canon source who, let me remind you, you all ignored his commentary on Maul when the finale for Rebels season 2 first came out. Hypocrite.

You are right, that he's word is not canon, but he's still more reliable than your biased, salty ass. Besides, he's not talking about his opinons (which is a fair basis to dismiss non canon authority quotes), he's talking about the fact that how TFU III was envisioned by the devs, and by association how they wrote the story of TFU II. So the only way for you to ignore his words if you think he's lying.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
PC: https://youtu.be/-AK3ZmkjsqE?t=2h21m25s
PS: https://youtu.be/C-qLmEhVSrs?t=16m19s
Xbox: https://youtu.be/FginrdtbmZk?t=20m56s
Wii: https://youtu.be/pPEwcVujTrM?t=3m13s

Prima Official Game Guide: "You grab your sabers and attack, but Vader is too powerful. He tosses you away like a rag doll."

Originally posted by cs_zoltan


You are right, that he's word is not canon, but he's still more reliable than your biased, salty ass. Besides, he's not talking about his opinons (which is a fair basis to dismiss non canon authority quotes), he's talking about the fact that how TFU III was envisioned by the devs, and by association how they wrote the story of TFU II. So the only way for you to ignore his words if you think he's lying.

Add PC to the list of games with the same cutscenes. It doesn't change the fact that the Wii versions doesn't doesn't show the same scene and thus contradicts it despite having a similar event.

The Prima guide only confirms events from the PC/Xbox/PS versions which all share the same cut scenes so of course it reciprocates it. It doesn't confirm the Wii ones which we know has different scenes then other game versions.

Show me where he's saying he's speaking for the devs rather then his own opinion.

The Force Unleashed Wii version can easily be singled out for editing the scene due to the constraints of the game engine, i.e. for gameplay purposes. That doesn't somehow invalidate the others. And they all align in depicting Vader telekinetically dominating Marek.

And if you want to argue that the Wii version should be discarded because it contradicts then what view do you suggest we take on the comic/novel/game contradictions that occur throughout? Lmao.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The Force Unleashed Wii version can easily be singled out for editing the scene due to the constraints of the game engine, i.e. for gameplay purposes. That doesn't somehow invalidate the others.

Ninja'ed.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Add PC to the list of games with the same cutscenes. It doesn't change the fact that the Wii versions doesn't doesn't show the same scene and thus contradicts it despite having a similar event.

Let me get you logic straight. If different versions have the same cutscene it only counts as one because they are the same, but if they are not the same then it's contradictory so it doesn't count.

Wow, turn down the bias just a little bit.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The Prima guide only confirms events from the PC/Xbox/PS versions which all share the same cut scenes so of course it reciprocates it. It doesn't confirm the Wii ones which we know has different scenes then other game versions.

Actually the Wii ragdollings are referenced in the guide as well.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Show me where he's saying he's speaking for the devs rather then his own opinion.

Are you f-ucking insane?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
And if you want to argue that the Wii version should be discarded because it contradicts then what view do you suggest we take on the comic/novel/game contradictions that occur throughout? Lmao. I didn't say that, if your aiming this at me.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Let me get you logic straight. If different versions have the same cutscene it only counts as one because they are the same, but if they are not the same then it's contradictory so it doesn't count.

Wow, turn down the bias just a little bit.



Actually the Wii ragdollings are referenced in the guide as well.



Are you f-ucking insane?

I'm saying that regardless of how many game versions corroborate each other there are others that don't.

Even better. Then a prima guide source contradicts the other prima guide sources as well.

N-o.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I didn't say that, if your aiming this at me.

I posted it before I saw you.

Syn what even is your point here? I'm knew to this little spat.

Are you saying that because the games contradict each other in some places, they are all invalid?Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I posted it before I saw you. A concession then.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Syn what even is your point here? I'm knew to this little spat.

Are you saying that because the games contradict each other in some places, they are all invalid?

A concession then.

If there's a third person unbiased descriptive source and there are multiple game versions which contradict each other then yes, I feel the games can be discarded in favor of aforementioned source which is personally what I do.

I mean, if you want to take it that way.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I'm saying that regardless of how many game versions corroborate each other there are others that don't.

So?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Even better. Then a prima guide source contradicts the other prima guide sources as well.

What do you mean?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
N-o.

Then don't ask straight up 10/10 retarded questions. Do you think Witwer was talking about his fanfiction? No, he was talking about what the devs told him.

Read this really carefully: "Yeah, absolutely, I'll give you little tidbits. The story of 3 was going to be as I understand it, thematically the terror of Darth Vader, because, you know, Haden Blackman wasn't about to have you beat this guy two times in a row without making a very strong point at the end of the third one and throughout the third one. That, you know there is, there is a... you know, I shouldn't say too much in case this all happens...But there was definitely moments where Starkiller faces off very cocky against Vader, maybe near the beginning of the game, and Vader *houses* him. And he says "how are you doing this?" And he's says "I'm Darth Vader."...Vader had been gaming him, quite a bit."

I only see him talking about what the devs planned, no opinion whatsoever. If you actually see it differently, then I suggest to wash out the salt from your eyes.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
So?



What do you mean?



Then don't ask straight up 10/10 retarded questions. Do you think Witwer was talking about his fanfiction? No, he was talking about what the devs told him.

Read this really carefully: "Yeah, absolutely, I'll give you little tidbits. The story of 3 was going to be as I understand it, thematically the terror of Darth Vader, because, you know, Haden Blackman wasn't about to have you beat this guy two times in a row without making a very strong point at the end of the third one and throughout the third one. That, you know there is, there is a... you know, I shouldn't say too much in case this all happens...But there was definitely moments where Starkiller faces off very cocky against Vader, maybe near the beginning of the game, and Vader *houses* him. And he says "how are you doing this?" And he's says "I'm Darth Vader."...Vader had been gaming him, quite a bit."

I only see him talking about what the devs planned, no opinion whatsoever. If you actually see it differently, then I suggest to wash out the salt from your eyes.

They're inconsistent.

The prima guide contains two contradicting sources touting them as events that occurred which contradicts itself. Unless your claim is that the only canonized events are ones confirmed by the Prima guide.

"as I understand it"

Thanks for making my point.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan


Now go on, let's have that salt.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
They're inconsistent.

K. Nobody cares.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The prima guide contains two contradicting sources touting them as events that occurred which contradicts itself. Unless your claim is that the only canonized events are ones confirmed by the Prima guide.

You literally just repeated yourself. Quote or gtfo. And I never claimed that only those are canon which are referenced in the Prima guide.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
"as I understand it"

Thanks for making my point.

Because it's such a complicated concept that Witwer can't fully comprehend it so he only told them about the parts he could fathom which is obviously not reliable....Or he didn't want to overstep his bounds.

mmm

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
If there's a third person unbiased descriptive source and there are multiple game versions which contradict each other then yes, I feel the games can be discarded in favor of aforementioned source which is personally what I do.

I mean, if you want to take it that way. Whereas the game isn't even framed by a narrative, its just there lol, on top of being the primary source. More to the point it's canon, so you can't dismiss it based off a personal method, which obviously holds no weight at all.

I don't see you applying this logic to the movies and their respect novelisations either, so it seems more like an excuse to me.

Anyway, the official stance as its been outlined by Lucasfilm is that:

1. the games are canon,

and 2. the foggy window approach, that each source is just a different interpretation of the same set of events.

If you have some official justification for regarding the novel above all else though then please, share. Otherwise it's just headcanon.

Kit wins

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
"as I understand it"

Thanks for making my point. That's a rather selective quoting of the material there Syn, let's apply contexts:He's talking about the theme of the game specifically. Then he goes on to explain his reasons for believing that to be the theme:Not seeing any indication of speculation there. And then:"Definitely" being rather a definitive word, wouldn't you agree? It's pretty obvious what's he's saying, that he's been told a bunch of stuff about the game, and based off that stuff, understands that TFU III was about how bad@ss Vader was.

You literally just repeated yourself. Quote or gtfo. And I never claimed that only those are canon which are referenced in the Prima guide.

I don't need to quote what you just confirmed. If they contradict each other and they're listed in the Prima Guide then the Prima guide is confirming contradicted source which makes the guide itself inaccurate.

Because it's such a complicated concept that Witwer can't fully comprehend it so he only told them about the parts he could fathom which is obviously not reliable....Or he didn't want to overstep his bounds.

Um. I assume this was a typo.

No, it's called sarcasm.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
And he says "how are you doing this?" And he's says "I'm Darth Vader."...

The whole TFU 3 would be worth it, just for this one bit of dialogue.

I think Syndicate shoots himself in the foot by whiffing away at all that extra source material he could use for Starkiller. The Wii game for example, depicts him simply overpowering Vader with Force, in both titles. On the other hand, it also introduces some Force-less challengers that give the main character a lot of trouble. Galen had difficulty against both Kleef and Chop'aa, and there's also him getting shoved around by two separate Shadow Guards. However, all of this could be presented in a way to that makes the sun shine out of Marek's backside, but it requires a little eloquence and perhaps the ability to use the quote function on this forum - just as a nice little touch.

On the other hand, Vader fans have been pinned to their corners ever since Old Ben's skills were determined and Luke's successful rebuttal of his Telekinesis was curtain called. They have also yet to explain why he can't win a tug of war with Kanan and Ezra in the middle of a dark side nexus. I see no reason for Fisto to be susceptible to a TK ownnage if the Jedi Master does not allow it. And Fisto is a vastly better swordsman on account of Obi Wan.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Whereas the game isn't even framed by a narrative, its just there lol, on top of being the primary source. More to the point it's canon, so you can't dismiss it based off a personal method, which obviously holds no weight at all.

I don't see you applying this logic to the movies and their respect novelisations either, so it seems more like an excuse to me.

Anyway, the official stance as its been outlined by Lucasfilm is that:

1. the games are canon,

and 2. the foggy window approach, that each source is just a different interpretation of the same set of events.

If you have some official justification for regarding the novel above all else though then please, share. Otherwise it's just headcanon.

It's there, yes and it self contradicts.

Just because I don't debate the subject of the movies and their general contradictions with the novels doesn't mean I don't hold the same stance. I take the novelizations of any work over their visual counterpart if they're of the same level of canon and contradict each other. ESPECIALLY if, like in the case of TFU and TFU II, the multiple visual mediums contradict each other anyways.

1. If you want to debate with feats from contradicted works that were declared canon you can feel free to to do that.

2. Assuming you're adopting the multiverse theory as well then?

A third person unbiased descritpvie source that depicts events in a way that can't be misinterpreted is always going to be used over visual events that are contradicted by their counterparts.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
It's pretty obvious what's he's saying, that he's been told a bunch of stuff about the game, and based off that stuff, understands that TFU III was about how bad@ss Vader was.

Whatever the concept of TFUIII was going to be doesn't matter since it was never made.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
It's there, yes and it self contradicts.

Just because I don't debate the subject of the movies and their general contradictions with the novels doesn't mean I don't hold the same stance. I take the novelizations of any work over their visual counterpart if they're of the same level of canon and contradict each other. ESPECIALLY if, like in the case of TFU and TFU II, the multiple visual mediums contradict each other anyways.

1. If you want to debate with feats from contradicted works that were declared canon you can feel free to to do that.

2. Assuming you're adopting the multiverse theory as well then?

A third person unbiased descritpvie source that depicts events in a way that can't be misinterpreted is always going to be place over visual events that are contradicted by their counterparts. Except the movies are of a higher canon than the novels, which themselves contradict one another. So by this logic movie novelisations should be out of bounds for you.

1. I will, because they are canon.

2. I am adopting Lucasfilm's official policy, yes.

In terms of anaylsing an event (for example Sidious vs Mace Windu) sure, I can agree with you. But we are not talking about the novel's description of an event vs. mine or your intepretation of the visual depiction. There is no room for debate that Vader gripped Marek in the Force in the game, and the novel doesn't offer some truth that suggests other factors were at play, or otherwise rule out it being possible.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
I think Syndicate shoots himself in the foot by whiffing away at all that extra source material he could use for Starkiller. The Wii game for example, depicts him simply overpowering Vader with Force, in both titles. On the other hand, it also introduces some Force-less challengers that give the main character a lot of trouble. Galen had difficulty against both Kleef and Chop'aa, and there's also him getting shoved around by two separate Shadow Guards. However, all of this could be presented in a way to that makes the sun shine out of Marek's backside, but it requires a little eloquence and perhaps the ability to use the quote function on this forum - just as a nice little touch.

On the other hand, Vader fans have been pinned to their corners ever since Old Ben's skills were determined and Luke's successful rebuttal of his Telekinesis was curtain called. They have also yet to explain why he can't win a tug of war with Kanan and Ezra in the middle of a dark side nexus. I see no reason for Fisto to be susceptible to a TK ownnage if the Jedi Master does not allow it. And Fisto is a vastly better swordsman on account of Obi Wan.

Because it would go against my actual views on the subject.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Whatever the concept of TFUIII was going to be doesn't matter since it was never made. You can adopt that stance if you like, but the idea that Witwer is unreliable source in that regard holds no water.

Regardless, I rather think it simply as a way to read TFU II.Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Because it would go against my actual views on the subject. That Marek is Yoda-tier yeah.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Whatever the concept of TFUIII was going to be doesn't matter since it was never made.

But TFU II was made with TFU III in mind. They didn't just suddenly changed their mind about Vader.

At the early staged of TFU I development they were even reluctant to use Vader and Sidious as the villains, because they didn't want the player to beat them.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Except the movies are of a higher canon than the novels, which themselves contradict one another. So by this logic movie novelisations should be out of bounds for you.

1. I will, because they are canon.

2. I am adopting Lucasfilm's official policy, yes.

In terms of anaylsing an event (for example Sidious vs Mace Windu) sure, I can agree with you. But we are not talking about the novel's description of an event vs. mine or your intepretation of the visual depiction. There is no room for debate that Vader gripped Marek in the Force, and the novel doesn't offer some truth that suggests other factors were at play.

In new canon. I'm referring to Legends continuity.

How do the novels contradict themselves?

1. As is the novel and comic. The difference being of all the sources the novel is the only one that is a DESCRIPTIVE rather then visual medium and unlike the various games does not contradict each other in terms of what actually occurred.

2. Nothing you quote stated it was Lucasfilm policy to assume that different events depicted both occurred simultaneously. It's a contradiction and should be discarded.

Except it does since Starkiller has an entire paragraph of monologue devoted to thinking about how he needs to get Vader to lower his guard so he can quickly defeat him and check on Juno.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
You can adopt that stance if you like, but the idea that Witwer is unreliable source in that regard holds no water.

Regardless, I rather think it simply as a way to read TFU II.That Marek is Yoda-tier yeah.

The idea that Witwer is a source speaking for Haden Blackman is also unsupported unless you have a quote hiding somewhere confirming such.

My actual view on interpreting sources.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
But TFU II was made with TFU III in mind. They didn't just suddenly changed their mind about Vader.

At the early staged of TFU I development they were even reluctant to use Vader and Sidious as the villains, because they didn't want the player to beat them.

It doesn't matter what the intent was. It matters what was depicted.

And there's no evidence that Witwer was speaking on Blackman's behalf anyways.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
In new canon. I'm referring to Legends continuity.

How do the novels contradict themselves?

1. As is the novel and comic. The difference being of all the sources the novel is the only one that is a DESCRIPTIVE rather then visual medium and unlike the various games does not contradict each other in terms of what actually occurred.

2. Nothing you quotes stated it was Lucasfilm policy to assume that different events depicted both occurred simultaneously. It's a contradiction and should be discarded.

Except it does since Starkiller has an entire paragraph of monologuing where he thinks to himself how he needs to get Vader to lower his guard so he can quickly defeat him and check on Juno. In which the movies are or were G-Canon and the novels are C-Canon.

Because there are multiple versions, usually at least a standard novelisation and a junior novelisation, which depict events differently. Sometimes more, in the case of ANH for example there are three different versions of the Vader vs Kenobi.

1. Cool, its all canon.

2. That's not what I said, you are the one who used the word "multiverse":

LucasBooks works diligently to keep the continuing Star Wars expanded universe cohesive and uniform, but stylistically, there is always room for variation. Not all artists draw Luke Skywalker the same way. Not all writers define the character in the same fashion. The particular attributes of individual media also come into play. A comic book interpretation of an event will likely have less dialogue or different pacing than a novel version. A video game has to take an interactive approach that favors gameplay. So too must card and roleplaying games ascribe certain characteristics to characters and events in order to make them playable.

The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. Like the great Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi said, 'many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view.

Or rather as I said, each medium is simply a different retelling of the one single set of events.

I'm confused as to what that is supposed to prove...

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The idea that Witwer is a source speaking for Haden Blackman is also unsupported unless you have a quote hiding somewhere confirming such.

My actual view on interpreting sources. So we are back to Witwer was lying again, lol, good day.

We're going back to there being nothing supporting that Witwer wasn't drawing on his own opinions rather then the devs actual stances which we don't know would have remained the same anyways.

Yeah i.e. Witwer was lying, or having some kind of fever dream.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
In which the movies are or were G-Canon and the novels are C-Canon.

Because there are multiple versions, usually at least a standard novelisation and a junior novelisation, which depict events differently. Sometimes more, in the case of ANH for example there are three different versions of the Vader vs Kenobi.

1. Cool, its all canon.

2. That's not what I said, you are the one who used the word "multiverse":

LucasBooks works diligently to keep the continuing Star Wars expanded universe cohesive and uniform, but stylistically, there is always room for variation. Not all artists draw Luke Skywalker the same way. Not all writers define the character in the same fashion. The particular attributes of individual media also come into play. A comic book interpretation of an event will likely have less dialogue or different pacing than a novel version. A video game has to take an interactive approach that favors gameplay. So too must card and roleplaying games ascribe certain characteristics to characters and events in order to make them playable.

The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. Like the great Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi said, 'many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view.

Or rather as I said, each medium is simply a different retelling of the one single set of events.

I'm confused as to what that is supposed to prove...

The novels were G canon along with the movies.

Those are two different sources therefore no contradictions occur within the same source as you claimed.

1. Except one was canonized arbitrarily regardless of the contradictions that occur.

2. I'm going to be siding with the non contradicted events for my "nuggets of truth" thank you very much.

If we were taking the game scenes into account and were trying to apply an in universe reason to why it occurred it would make sense that Starkiller would play possum to get Vader to lower his guard and Starkiller realigning himself midjump and landing no worse for wear would be indicative of such an attempt to get Vader to underestimate him.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yeah i.e. Witwer was lying, or having some kind of fever dream.

He never said he was speaking for Blackman and while stating an opinion isn't a lie it doesn't make that opinion right.

By the very definition of the word it can't be an opinion. He either knows what Blackman planned or he doesn't.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
By the very definition of the word it can't be an opinion.

By the very definition of what word? Lie? The word you and Beni are arbitrarily bringing into the conversation?

I've explained this already:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15949363#post15949363

Which you saw. Please do not go full retard again.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The novels are were G canon along with the movies.

Those are two different sources therefore no contradictions occur within the same source as you claimed.

1. Except one was canonized arbitrarily regardless of the contradictions that occur.

2. I'm going to be siding with the non contradicted events for my "nuggets of truth" thank you very much.

If we were taking the game scenes into account and were trying to apply an in universe reason to why it occurred it would make sense that Starkiller would play possum to get Vader to lower his guard and Starkiller realigning himself midjump and landing no worse for wear would be indicative of such an attempt to get Vader to underestimate him. They appear to be on a higher footing to me.

I didn't claim that, I was drawing a comparison to your assertion that because the different versions of the games contradict one another, which is also the case for the different movie novelisations, they are invalid, unless your now asserting that their are contradictions within each version of the game itself? If so that is news to me.

1. I have no idea what you mean by "arbitrary", but they are canon.

2. OK, as long as you keep it to yourself.

Lol, what an excuse, regardless, something to debunk at a later date. As long as you face up to the fact the scene is canon.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I've explained this already:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15949363#post15949363

Which you saw. Please do not go full retard again.

In reference to the TFUIII game which was never actually made? Lmao.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
They appear to be on a higher footing to me.

I didn't claim that, I was drawing a comparison to your assertion that because the different versions of the games contradict one another, which is also the case for the different movie novelisations, they are invalid, unless your now asserting that their are contradictions within each version of the game itself? If so that is news to me.

1. I have no idea what you mean by "arbitrary", but they are canon.

2. OK, as long as you keep it to yourself.

Lol, what an excuse, regardless, something to debunk at a later date. As long as you face up to the fact the scene is canon.

Those are canon quotes are they not?

No but in cases where the novelizations contradict and are of equal canon you would look towards another source that is not contradicted. I.E. in these particular cases, the movie.

1. If they have contradictions yet all versions were canonized then it means they weren't actually looked at for errors.

2. Not at all. I'll explain to you why taking a possible version of events when there's a third person descriptive version is idiotic and expect you to be enlightened.

It's contradicted and therefore discardable when we have a non contradicted version of events to turn to which is the case here.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Those are canon quotes are they not?

No but in cases where the novelizations contradict and are of equal canon you would look towards another source that is not contradicted. I.E. in these particular cases, the movie.

1. If they have contradictions yet all versions were canonized then it means they weren't actually looked at for errors.

2. Not at all. I'll explain to you why taking a possible version of events when there's a third person descriptive version is idiotic and expect you to be enlightened.

It's contradicted and therefore discardable when we have a non contradicted version of events to turn to which is the case here. The first one is from 2001, the second one is talking about how the EU was treated before the reboot.

Right, and they do contradict one another, often, so why not look to only the movie regarding say Dooku's duel with Anakin & Kenobi? Given how the novels conflict in their recounting of it?

1. An assumption, but in terms of the contradiction here i.e. between the vanilla version and the Wii version, I already explained why that's likely to be the case. Regardless at the end of the day it would come down to an personal opinion, however reasoned, as to which source you choose, and that just doesn't fly in a debate. As of equal canon status, you can only treat them equally.

2. Keep it to yourself, buttface.

It's canon. Suck it poorfag.

Then I don't care about the second quote. Provide the paragraph the first quote appeared in for context please.

Sure. Though if the movie supports one of interpretations in either the Junior novel or the novelization then I don't see why you couldn't look to those sources to elaborate further on the the events that occurred.

1. The events from the Wii version are confirmed in the Prima guide as Zoltan mentioned. Or you can disregard them all for being a contradicted mass of sh!t like I do.

2. Ur a stupid doodie head.

Fug u Beanie.

Why? Its referring to how the EU operated before Disney changed it up.

Regardless, here's the link for the other quote:

http://web.archive.org/web/20011006064339/http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc/steve/askjc20010817.html

OK, as long as you accept that, prepare to die by your own logic in coming months.

1. Of course they are, the Prima Guide is designed to guide the player through all the versions, including the Wii one. Doesn't make it any less constrained by the Wii engine. And you mean look for loopholes to justify your bias.

2. Death is too good for you.

:iwin:

As an excuse for the travesty they were enacting at the time and something they have no authority over ( Legend continuity ).

Fair enough. They make it pretty clear movies are above all. I'll shift my stance in that regard now that I've seen that quote.

Well I've changed that now in regards to the movies at least as the article you linked makes it clears that they're above all in terms of canon.

1. Nah I mean disregard a teaming mass of contradictions for something that is clear and stated.

2. Don't I know it.

As in true hard fax you won't accept.

Good, no more novelisations for you then.

Good, discard then into your trash bin, fuggot.

That Marek > Yoda? Not seeing it.

Nah, as in a company that has no authority in regards to Legend continuity.

Yep.

I do on the daily.

Causing Sidious to grow desperate after he'd been absorbing the life energy of billions of sentient beings for 2 years and having scoured millions of worlds for Sith knowledge seems better then being outmatched by baseline RotS Sidious.

u r cancer.